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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsConnolly threatens to jail Trump officials who won't comply with subpoenas
Rep. Gerry Connolly threatened jail time for White House officials who are declining to comply with congressional committees' efforts to conduct oversight of President Donald Trump's administration. It's the latest salvo in the escalating battle between the White House and congressional Democrats, who have scaled up their oversight requests following the conclusion of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.
Connolly, who sits on the Oversight Committee, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room," "We're going to resist, and if a subpoena is issued and you're told you must testify, we will back that up."
"And we will use any and all power in our command to make sure it's backed up -- whether that's a contempt citation, whether that's going to court and getting that citation enforced, whether it's fines, whether it's possible incarceration," the Virginia Democrat added. "We will go to the max to enforce the constitutional role of the legislative branch of government."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/25/politics/gerry-connolly-subpoenas-white-house-cnntv/index.html
Zoonart
(11,866 posts)A second option is to make a criminal referral directly to the Department of Justice but when the attorney general is one of those who ordered an official to disobey a subpoena, thats not exactly possible.
The third option is inherent contempt. Through that process, Congress can conduct the trial directly, without needing either permission or assistance from the executive or judicial branches. It hasnt been done in 85 years, but there is absolutely nothing that prevents it from being done now. There was no change of law or ruling of the court that stopped the use of inherent contempt; it just fell out of use because it was inconvenient.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/4/26/1853298/-House-could-revive-inherent-contempt-to-deal-with-Trump-s-defiance-of-congressional-subpoenas?utm_campaign=recent
spanone
(135,832 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)is who is going to enforce this, lock em up and where. by whom?Its clear no part of the executive branch is going to do it, since Trumpster's promise of a pardon for any legal action against those not doing his will.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)The House sergeant at arms and his staff, drawing upon the Capitol Police and US Marshals, if necessary.
[link:https://www.house.gov/the-house-explained/officers-and-organizations/sergeant-at-arms|]
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)but, these are unprecedented times and we're fighting against the rise of an autocratic nationalist, so we need to take unprecedented steps to combat him.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)about another DEM who suggested just this action.
ARREST THE FUCKERS !!!!!!!!
LonePirate
(13,424 posts)True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Arrest just 1. See how fast the rest fall in line. Trump and his mob need a wake up call.
Sure stop the MSM with all their daily quibbling over things that happened 20, 30 years ago.
erronis
(15,257 posts)to see the light.
Pardons won't erase the smirch of being someone who tried to overthrow the government.
Loss of legal/moral standing as well as not being allowed to practice their profession (law, lying, whatever) will be a lot more harmful than a bunch of IOUs from traitorous donnie.
ooky
(8,923 posts)Tired of hearing "we are going to do this and that" while nothing gets done. Just shut up about it and DO it and I will be way more impressed.
MyOwnPeace
(16,926 posts)GO GET 'EM!!!
-Laelth
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)mitch96
(13,904 posts)The congressional sgt at arms? Can Barr override the action? tRump pardon the fucker?
How do you put the fear of god into these people so they testify?
m
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Even if he could, where would he hold him? All other alternatives seem to be in the Executive Branch. This is a rabbit trail not worth following.
mitch96
(13,904 posts)Tweech his own. I find it fascinating how this stuff works.
m
BumRushDaShow
(128,990 posts)By Tessa Berenson and Lily Rothman November 15, 2017
<...>
But, frequently, when the topic of contempt-of-Congress charges comes up, a far harsher possibility makes headlines: the Capitol jail. There is some real history backing up that threat in that 1821 case, the Supreme Court stood behind Congress right to imprison people. But these days, its just as likely that the source for the idea is a bit of confusion.
The Old Capitol Jail was once a major Washington, D.C., landmark. Most famously, it was used to detain Confederate spies and soldiers during the Civil War era. As one James Joseph Williamson would later recount of his time imprisoned there, Conditions in the Old Capitol differed in many respects from the prison camps. Prisoners in the Old Capitol were mostly civilians, except where soldiers (either prisoners of war or men charged with offenses), were brought in and kept until they could be sent to places designated; or prisoners from other prisons held over until they could be shipped South for exchange. But that building doesnt exist anymore, though its address is still important as the location of the Supreme Court building.
As the House of Representatives Office of the Historian has explained, most people in American history who have been held by the House over contempt charges (a very small number to begin with) have not been put in any specific Capitol Jail. Rather, theyve just been put under lock and key within a spare room at the Capitol or even in a nearby hotel.
In a 2003 Senate oral history interview, longtime staffer Chuck Ludlam told the Senate Historical Office that as part of the work he was doing to advocate for an idea to better enforce subpoenas he had once spoken to the Architect of the Capitol about the matter, and was told that there was evidence that several rooms at the Capitol had been used to guard people at one point or another, but that its not clear that any of those rooms would have been only used for that purpose. And one of the rooms thats most commonly mistaken for a jail at the Capitol (its in the basement and has bars) was in fact meant as a possible spot for George Washingtons tomb. But, just because theres no physical jail doesnt mean theres no right for Congress to detain individuals and in fact the Capitol Police do maintain a holding cell a few blocks away.
http://time.com/5023920/trump-russia-election-congress-capitol-jail/
RichardRay
(2,611 posts)...the House has power to act directly via the sergeant at arms. I believe there are a couple of cells in the Congress building. It would be pretty dramatic.
True Blue American
(17,984 posts)And have. Contempt of Congress.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress
pangaia
(24,324 posts)eh, all caps sorry..
I read that yesterday? in a post about this same issue...
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Laelth
(32,017 posts)I am tired of threatening. Just do it and move on.
-Laelth
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,611 posts)For not enforcing the criminal referrals to DOJ, otherwise Congress will get spun as fascists who arresting innocent folks for just following orders.
They can't just jump to arrests for inherent contempt without showing they have exhausted other reasonable measures.
ooky
(8,923 posts)to enforce subpoenas.
KPN
(15,645 posts)of power -- as set out in the Constitution 232 years ago. Are we gonna let this MF erase the basics of a Constitution that has served our nation remarkably well for that many years?
ooky
(8,923 posts)damn law enforcement officer! If he won't enforce subpoenas because he's a partisan then he clearly needs to go. We are either a country of laws or not. If the chief law enforcement officer in the country won't enforce laws then why should anyone else have to obey laws?
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Why not go full bore on Barr? Put Trump on the back burner for now. I don't think the deplorables would rise up not even the average Republican compared to if it were against their Dear Leader. At least it wouldn't be as risky politically.
mitch96
(13,904 posts)Get all the low hanging fruit first and get the orange shit stain thinking.. or try to think...
m
Duppers
(28,120 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Kahir165
(4 posts)Do tell me how bad it looks on gym Jordan that many former athletes are speaking out against his cover up?
Fiendish Thingy
(15,611 posts)Otherwise, your post makes no sense in context with mine...
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)spanone
(135,832 posts)True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Ranting about doing something now are not helping the situation.
As posted above wait until the date, then see what happens.
KPN
(15,645 posts)show some spine and arrest and jail TMFs immediately.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)KPN
(15,645 posts)loves_da_dems
(67 posts)They're gonna need a big jail.
Bayard
(22,073 posts)The longer Dems delay on enforcement, the more weak they look. The more emboldened tRump and his minions become.
History:
"This is where inherent contempt comes in. From the Republics earliest days, Congress has had the right to hold recalcitrant witnesses in contempt and even imprison them all by itself. In 1795, shortly after the Constitution was ratified, the House ordered its sergeant at arms to arrest and detain two men accused of trying to bribe members of Congress. The House held a trial and convicted one of them.
In 1821, the Supreme Court upheld Congresss right to hold people in contempt and imprison them. Without this power, the court ruled, Congress would be exposed to every indignity and interruption, that rudeness, caprice, or even conspiracy, may mediate against it. Later, in a 1927 case arising from the Teapot Dome scandal, the court upheld the Senates arrest of the brother of a former attorney general carried out in Ohio by the deputy sergeant at arms for ignoring a subpoena to testify."
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/opinion/04tue4.html
There is not a jail under the Capitol:
"One of the rooms thats most commonly mistaken for a jail at the Capitol (its in the basement and has bars) was in fact meant as a possible spot for George Washingtons tomb."
"The Old Capitol Jail was once a major Washington, D.C., landmark. Most famously, it was used to detain Confederate spies and soldiers during the Civil War era."
"But that building doesnt exist anymore, though its address is still important as the location of the Supreme Court building."
"But, just because theres no physical jail doesnt mean theres no right for Congress to detain individuals and in fact the Capitol Police do maintain a holding cell a few blocks away."
http://time.com/5023920/trump-russia-election-congress-capitol-jail/
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Thanks!!
The problem is, even if they do comply with a subpoena, they will just plead the Fifth.
Our Democratic lawmakers need to pull the purse strings very tightly on them. Dems do have that power and need to use whatever powers we do have, even jailing them and making them plead the Fifth.
joe_stampingbull
(165 posts)KPN
(15,645 posts)actually take action immediately when the date for appearance issued in a subpoena has passed ... like immediately after the hearing occurs. Incarcerate the bastards. Taking thin gs to the courts is exactly what tRump wants ... delay, delay, delay.
Be strong elected Democrats ... our/your country depends on it.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)Seemed to actually end up in trouble. Another time, a guy who deleted emails under subpoena took the 5th in his deposition, and then refused to show for a subpoena, and nothing seemed to happen to him either.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)the orange nazi needs, it time to cut off the brats allowance.
spanone
(135,832 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)Take away their money.
No one answered Hangingon's question in his upstream post, who is going to arrest them?
I do know that the House controls the purse strings though.
WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)Air Force One operating money.
No more weekly trips to Mar a Lago or campaign gimmick trips.
He boasts of how wealthy he is and how he wouldn't take a paycheck, so make him spend his own money.
Let him book his own flights and fly coach for all I care. Hell, if he is that much of a distraction of getting pummeled on flights, make him rent a RV and he can motor down to Florida with Melania... Maybe some good ole' Americans will just run/force him off a cliff or he will be busted for road rage after pointing his pistol at other motorists.
WAIT!... He can't be arrested for anything including shooting somebody in the face on 5th Avenue according to the 30% imbeciles running this country.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)The pay back potential...keeping a Dem POTUS grounded if the R's have 1 side of Congress....horrible idea.
Mr.Bill
(24,292 posts)even if the Democrats built a monument to Trump and conceded the election.
jalan48
(13,865 posts)already thought about how he would deal with the jailing of subordinates and using massive social unrest is one of his strategies. How will we deal with it?
neohippie
(1,142 posts)I agree the house needs to enforce their power and show the checks can be financial as well as they have the power to imprison
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Just DO IT !!!!
PLEASE DEMS, get out there and SCREAM that republicans are traitors for not fulfilling their constitutional duties!
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)the_sly_pig
(741 posts)If me or the missus ignored a congressional subpoena guess what would happen? If you dont use your muscle, the muscle deteriorates. Time to flex.
tavernier
(12,388 posts)Just do it.
AllaN01Bear
(18,216 posts)AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)Everyone of these idiots can be compelled to appear with the right court order(that could take yrs to achieve) but can sit at the table in the Oversight cmt room and assert their 5thA rights and say nothing.
the_sly_pig
(741 posts)For hours hiding behind the 5th. It will have the same effect.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)Lois Lerner was out of her hearing in 15-20 minutes after asserting.
the_sly_pig
(741 posts)The point is to assert authority and force them to show up and expose their cowardice.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)..is a poorly thought out threat to begin with. It reinforces the dumpsters claim of "witch hunt" or whatever the freak is calling it now.
It'll take court hearings past the '20 GE to resolve this crap.
Rep Connolly isn't going to put anyone in jail let alone have them arrested. Just not going to happen.
Mike Nelson
(9,956 posts)
but I don't think there's much he can do... Congress can stop them from getting paid, but they are so wealthy, it won't matter much. The may be able to vote on condemnations. Trump and the gang will give no taxes, testimony, or anything they don't want to give. I would suggest calling witnesses that are agreeable and look for someone unhappy with the boss. The public needs to see real people talk under oath.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"a group of Texas Senate Democrats who fled Texas for Albuquerque, New Mexico for 46 days in 2003 aimed at preventing the passage of controversial redistricting legislation that was intended to benefit Texas Republicans. A group of Texas House representatives, dubbed the Killer Ds, had fled the state earlier that same summer for the same reason.
U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, then a powerful figure in Texas politics, advocated arresting the Texas Eleven, telling reporters that he supported using FBI agents or U.S. Marshals to arrest the runaway Democrats and bring them back to Austin, asserting that redistricting is a matter of federal concern..."
I'm being semi-tongue-in-cheek, as they had weak oranges, and we have 'how-do-like-them-apples?"
coeur_de_lion
(3,676 posts)Stop talking and do it.
Liberal In Texas
(13,552 posts)SayItLoud
(1,702 posts)all show up when they get their subpoenas. Stop the talk and walk the walk.
triron
(22,003 posts)Takket
(21,568 posts)Hotler
(11,421 posts)Fuck! Put up or shut up Gerry.
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)in a cell.
Lock them up!
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)randr
(12,412 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)spanone
(135,832 posts)Let's hope they do follow up.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)erronis
(15,257 posts)Whether or not they get to spend time in a cell or get a cheapo pardon.
Their legitimacy and ethics will always be questioned for the rest of their lives.
(I guess there may be a few positions open for a shyster for a mob boss.)
Nitram
(22,801 posts)orleans
(34,051 posts)and that is that
thom hartmann said something about why impeachment hearings are important--because trump cannot pardon anyone related to those hearings or the impeachment process once it has begun.
(i could be mistaken on this, but that was my understanding of what he was saying. i've tried googling and can't find anything specifically related to the cessation of pardoning powers pertaining to this)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)iluvtennis
(19,858 posts)True Blue American
(17,984 posts)Contempt of Congress.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress