It's over. Trump won

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Last edited Fri May 3, 2019, 11:32 PM - Edit history (1)

THIS ROUND !! Writing on wall. Nothing is gonna happen. We won't get shit out of Mueller, if we even see him. We won't get the IRS chief in...no taxes. We won't see anyone. We won't see unredacted report- will be held up in court. Even if we hold people in contempt...so what.

I have been the biggest impeachment proponent...but they won't do it and support and outrage over report has dwindled and his approvals rebounding. We needed to hit asap and we didn't.

So, we now 66% of the Dems who wanted impeachment are being ignored. (In the 80s in December) We have no place to go and we hate trump enough to walk on glass to vote against him.

And then, to add insult to be injury, we have to watch our leaders treating this criminal with respect at the WH regarding this infrastructure bill. Giving him his campaign promise and taking away our one winning issue - debt. All he has to do is say... "Debt? They went along with 2 trillion!."

And every argument against impeachment now coming true anyway without him being held to justice..win or lose. Trump prancing with full victory. And rubbing it in our noses by kissing ass with Putin.

Time to lick our wounds and move on. Focus on protecting our vote in 2020. Or we will be stuck for 4 extra years of horror.

[zaj]

1. That's an over reaction, but a fair one.

The fight still needs to be had. But it's about Congress, transparency, democracy, elections and 2020.

Mueller is a part of it.

[Pachamama]

2. Hell No - It's not over....

Time for us to wrap our wounds and put on our armor and live to fight another day and even harder.....

No way give up and move on.....

Now is when we get even tougher and fight harder....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

59. 100% agree...protect the vote and GOTV. He has

Gotten away with his crimes to date...imho that is

[Crunchy Frog]

74. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[mazzarro]

90. Wrong!

Germans did not bomb Pear Harbor; Japanese did.

[Aristus]

94. It's a quote from 'Animal House'.

Everyone in the world knows it was the Japanese, except Bluto Blutarski.

[Captain Stern]

108. "except Bluto Blutarski"...and one other person. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

129. They didn't? Really? Gosh!

[malaise]

3. Laura

Have a drink - the Con will be caught

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. It's not over until it's over. Which it isn't.

[still_one]

14. I thought it isn't over until the Lady Sings?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. Specifically, the Fat Lady, the apochryphal opera singer

in the role of Brunnhilde in Richard Wagner's Götterdämmerung, the last of the immensely long, four-opera Ring Cycle. Brunnhilde is usually depicted as a well-upholstered lady who appears for a ten-minute solo to conclude the opera before she rides into the flames.

[still_one]

42. Thank you for the background

[Whiskeytide]

53. And I was thinking you were quoting ...

... Yogi Berra. I’m not very refined. 🤪

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

55. It is attributed to Don Meredith, the first Dallas Cowboy quarterback

who would say "It ain't over till the fat lady sings" as a color commentator on Monday Night Football in the early 70's. It was never conclusively established that he was literally referring to Wagner's operas, or operas in general, but that's the usual interpretation.

[Ligyron]

54. Ah, the Wagnerfest.

Bamberg Germany, 1978. Never saw as many SS in my whole 2 years stationed there as I did in those 2 days my parents and I spent visiting.

They grow a lot of hops vines around there too.

Bier there isn't half bad either.

[saidsimplesimon]

80. "a well-upholstered lady"

You gave me the gift of humor. I needed it, still smiling at memories of the horrors of enduring a few ten-minute solos.

[gldstwmn]

88. As long as she doesn't sing in Russian.

[Aristus]

96. Here's a good example of the scene.

Sopranos assaying the role of Brunnhilde aren't always fat these days,and many can be quite fetching. Brunnhilde is supposed to be a beautiful former goddess made mortal. These are the last twenty minutes or so of a musical experience that comes in at around fifteen hours total. The themes she sings and the orchestra plays are the culmination of an incredibly complex musical development that span that entire period. They may not make much sense to the casual listener. But if you can listen to the whole series, your persistence will be rewarded.

[LakeArenal]

5. We really need to focus on 2020.

I don’t even read that many primary threads anymore.

Joe 20/20. I hardly care about the VP. I have definite favorites but I’m putting my faith in Democrat’s one more time.

Win Democrats.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

72. You are SO right! Bet trump loves our continued

attempts. Playing the victim card will start working better and better.

[Heartstrings]

101. If the "couch" democrats can be coerced and

actually got off those couches and get to the polls we will win!

They need a strong message other than "trump is bad".....

[EffieBlack]

112. "It's over. Trump won" isn't going to do it either

[Heartstrings]

125. Nope, I think Pete Buttigieg nailed it when he said

"Our message needs to speak to the concerns of the demographics", or something to that effect....not a direct quote.

[UniteFightBack]

127. I know I don't very much care for this thread title. nt

[struggle4progress]

6. "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will,

in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value"

Thomas Paine
23 December 1776

[Chin music]

23. +1

Nice.

[lordsummerisle]

37. Thanks for this

I always liked that phrase "the summer soldier and the sunshine patriot"...

[lunatica]

97. Words you can live by

I’ve said this a bunch of times lately, no one ever won a war by throwing up their hands in despair. Ever.

[EffieBlack]

113. Perfect

[treestar]

117. Thank you

Our forebears handled quite a lot more with far less complaint.

[kentuck]

7. After reading your post....

I have little enthusiasm to vote.

[BigmanPigman]

19. That is what I have been writing about and have been put down for..

Dems being disappointed and frustrated and not voting. I have been told in replies that by seeing that this is really happening I am putting a damper on DU discussions and accused of troll-like behavior.

[onecaliberal]

25. Same. Someone even lied about what I said in a comment that was right above theirs.

[TwilightZone]

36. What good does not voting do?

The only realistic way to get rid of Trump is to vote him out. It always was.

Fortunately, most Democrats seem to be more than ready to do so. CNN's poll showed that a record percentage of voters are enthusiastic about voting in 2020. DU is one of the only places I've been where this kind of defeatism is common.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

75. Did I see it right? They showed a poll the other day

That GOP voters more enthusiastic than we are? There's no way. I would crawl on broken glass to vote against him.

[SunSeeker]

40. Same here. Sigh.

It does not appear anyone has read the Mueller Report besides Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton (both of whom are calling for impeachment proceedings).

[BigmanPigman]

43. I am with them too!

[Pachamama]

52. Add Kamala Harris to that list of people who have read the Mueller Report....

[SunSeeker]

89. Well, that explains why she said on Rachel tonight that we should start impeachment proceedings. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. And that's just what they want. Don't let them do it to you.

[TwilightZone]

35. Why?

The only realistic way to get rid of Trump is to vote him out. It always was.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

57. Nooooo. We must try to vote him out!!! Saying he

Has won with getting away with his crimes.

But he is now emboldened. He talked in private to freaking Putin today!!!!

We must turn our focus to protecting vote.

[Bleacher Creature]

8. I was feeling the same way, but reading this helped.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/opinion/barr-mueller-report.html

[GoCubsGo]

9. BULLSHIT.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

60. How are we gonna get justice then ? He's blocking

Every move, public doesn't care anymore. Time to move to protect vote because he WILL try and rig.

[GoCubsGo]

109. Things are just getting started.

But, if you feel better wringing your hands and gnashing your teeth, you go right ahead.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

132. No, just being realistic. Hope you are right and that

something good will mysteriously happen.

[Blue_true]

10. It is not over until his orange ass is in sing-sing. nt

[manor321]

11. Impeachment proceedings must begin immediately

I will be writing to more than a dozen congress members to demand they start an impeachment inquiry.

[BigmanPigman]

20. Good for you!

Calling works well too.

[SunSeeker]

41. Thank you!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

61. I am still a million % for impeachment...but Pelosi

Won't give green light. If she does I would be completely shocked.

[struggle4progress]

12. St Crispin's day

[TwilightZone]

13. Infrastructure

Infrastructure in this country is in desperate need of attention. If we have an opportunity to do something constructive about it, we should, regardless of whether or not Trump considers it a win. He considers everything a win.

If there's something wrong with the deal being discussed, that's one thing. If your objection to it is solely based on Trump doing a victory lap, everyone already knows he does a victory lap about everything, so one more would be meaningless and just blend into the rest of the nonsense.

"And every argument against impeachment now coming true anyway without him being held to justice"

Impeachment and acquittal isn't justice. It's an acquittal. You're worried that he'd do a victory lap about infrastructure, but not acquittal?

Pursuing impeachment as a tool to get Democrats elected in 2020 is one thing and an argument in favor, assuming one believes that the backlash wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but if you're looking for justice, that was never going to happen with impeachment. He's more likely to face justice post-presidency. It may be the only way he might face justice.

[EffieBlack]

114. Exactly!

Most Americans expect their representatives to get things done - at least TRY! While some diehards on the left want our leaders to do nothing but hate and fight Trump, the rest of us want government to continue working. And the average person trying to get to work on potholed streets and crumbling bridges aren't interested in hearing "We're not doing anything to improve your life, but we sure ZINGED it to Trump today, didn't we?!"

[struggle4progress]

29. No, thank you. I shall continue with the old idea, that government of the people, by the people,

for the people, shall not perish from the earth

[struggle4progress]

91. No: the habit of peaceful democratic transitions would be much easier to lose than to restore

One coup is a permanent precedent for an everlasting sequence of following coups

[triron]

130. But we already had a coup in 2016. You are obscuring.

[struggle4progress]

134. Accurate and principled analysis will serve us better than mere rhetoric

The current game is not to find the best way of expressing anger and outrage: it is developing a practical view of the political context

[triron]

135. I hardly think the fact that Trump invited help from a foreign adversary to get the presidency is

'rhetoric'. Putin installed Trump. Not the (deceived) American people.

[spin]

48. A military coup would lead to an uprising in this nation. ...

Plus don’t forget civilians are not disarmed in this nation as they are in Venezuela.

In my opinion it is best to wait for 2020 and allow the voters to determine Trump’s future. A peaceful change of power is always preferable.

Of course that assumes Trump doesn’t become a total tyrant or dictator. In that case all bets are off.

[spin]

105. I do agree that is a better word choice. (n/t)

[AncientGeezer]

122. ArtII. Sec4 is about impeachment......the military would have ZERO play in it.

Congress.. NOT the military is responsible for ArtII. Sec4.

[AlexSFCA]

16. first of all if trump is reelected it won't be just another 4 years of horror

it will be for decades as democracy will be destroyed during that time. Second of all, trump wants house to impeach him so that senate can quickly exonerate him which will gurantee his victory in 2020. We now have to make a choice: either to fulfill our constitutional duty and impeach trump (and barr) or focus on winning 2020. I would argue that, considering the circumstances, there is nothing more important than winning in 2020.

[Poiuyt]

17. An impeachment proceeding would NOT guarantee a Trump reelection

History shows just the opposite.

[TwilightZone]

30. History doesn't show anything of the sort.

Clinton was impeached in his second term, so reelection was irrelevant. Nixon was in his second term, as well, when impeachment was recommended by the House. Johnson was 150 years ago and in the midst of unique circumstances.

Impeachment is so infrequent that making historical comparisons is misguided, at best. Each situation, including Trump's, was and is unique, with unique considerations. No one knows what the electorate's reaction would be to an impeachment and an acquittal, though a lot of people certainly insist that they do.

[Poiuyt]

103. You're right, it's hard to make historical comparisons

I was objecting to the poster who said that impeachment would guarantee Trump reelection. I can see both sides of the debate as far as to whether or not Democrats should start impeachment hearings. My statement about history was based on Republicans losing the white house after the Nixon almost impeachment and Democrats losing the White House after the Clinton impeachment. And Clinton was a lot more popular than Trump. You might want to read this short article about the consequences of impeachment:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/opinion/clinton-impeachment-republicans-trump.html?register=email&auth=register-email

snip-

Furthermore, in the fall of 1998, at the first opportunity for voters to express their feelings at the ballot box after the House voted to begin an impeachment inquiry, the Democrats picked up five seats in the House of Representatives, an embarrassment that drove Newt Gingrich from the speaker’s office.

But consider what followed.

First, the Republicans went on to take or hold the White House in three of the next five presidential elections — including the 2016 race between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

And while Democrats did gain a handful of House seats in midterm elections in 1998, the Republicans maintained control for eight more years, until disapproval of the Iraq war finally tipped Congress to the Democrats in 2006.

On the Senate side in 1998, the Republicans maintained their 55-45 majority. With the exception of a 17-month window in 2002 and 2003, Republicans controlled the Senate until 2006. In short, the Republican wave of 1994 endured for nearly a decade after the failed impeachment.

It’s true that Mr. Clinton was not removed from office, but Republicans used the fact of his impeachment as a cudgel first against his vice president, Al Gore, and later against his wife. While its impact can’t be quantified, it sure didn’t help either in their election bids.

Finally, and most important, the very myth that the 1998 impeachment hurt Republicans protects them today, when pressure to move against Mr. Trump is met with concerns about the political fallout. Clearly, we need to reconsider that myth.

[triron]

131. We already have a virtual dictatorship. I don't see anyone undoing it.

Please convince me otherwise.

[world wide wally]

18. Laura,

Pour me a drink too.
Then we'll talk about this

[guillaumeb]

21. I disagree.

This is a long process.

[sheshe2]

33. Thank you.

Geez!

This is far from over.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

81. What do you expect will happen? I really would like to

know. Maybe some new crime that Mueller didn't know about? I hope that happens but based on everything he has done... people don't seem to care much. His approval dipped to 39% right after report came out. The news was animated and you could tell they were thinking something would be done. But we didn't act immediately...at least announcing we were moving to impeach. So then, press and now people are saying...well if it wasn't important enough then we will move on too.

[guillaumeb]

139. The process that resulted in Nixon's resignation was not a quick one.

And impeachment was not the first thing that happened.

[Grasswire2]

22. So said American patriots NEVER.

NEVER.

You think this country was established by sunshine patriots?

You think it was defended here and abroad by weakness and capitulation?

Talk like that demeans the personal sacrifices and oceans of blood spilled in the cause of liberty over the generations.

[BeyondGeography]

27. Pelosi has been awful on impeachment

Even her once stalwart supporter Charles Pierce is confused:

I truly am not following the eleventy-dimensional chess here. She tells her caucus that the president* is behaving in exactly the way that Nixon behaved that brought articles of impeachment down on his sinful head. Then she tells the country, fck it. Those soulless robots in the Senate won't convict him anyway. The problem is that she and her Democratic majority in the House, the place where the Founders lodged the impeachment power, are running out of options.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/amp27355012/nancy-pelosi-impeach-donald-trump-democrats/

[Laura PourMeADrink]

63. +1

[SeattleVet]

28. Over? Did you say, 'Over'? Nothing is over until WE decide it is!

[pnwmom]

31. Posts like yours discourage people -- they don't increase turnout.

Hopelessness is not a motivator.

So I ask what the purpose is of this venting.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

62. Sorry, not hopeless for vote...if we act now. Hopeless

For getting justice for Mueller report crimes

[brush]

32. Nope, the orange crook/traitor will not win. And I don't have time for Debbie downers.

It's hardly over.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

69. Never said he would win reelection. We just need

To see the writing on wall (as outlined in OP, and work on protecting vote

[brush]

92. I didn't say anything about the election. Mueller's testimony is being negotiated...

now by Nadler. And his team is upset about Barr's lies, they may yet leak the unredacted report. There's a long way to the election and who knows what will unfold.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

136. Maybe I am just in some kind of protection mode. Sick of hoping and wishing for

so many years.

Just can't see Mueller having the bombshells we are hoping for- for one and ONLY one reason. If he had the dirt, like real game changer dirt, Trump and Barr would be working overtime to block any kind of disclosure from him - that could potentially hurt Trump. Skepticism.

But, guess despite it all, of coursem deep inside, I am still hoping.

[triron]

34. After watching Rachel tonite and listening to Kamala Harria it's looking more like you may be right.

The senate intelligence committee is non-partisan?? Bullshit.

[Thomas Hurt]

38. The first and best solution for Trump has always been 2020

Some Democrats were overly invested in impeachment. It still serves the purpose for hearings. The House should investigate every complaint from Trump with public hearings and expose his every fn lie.

Trump tries to make the narrative about spying hold hearings and expose his be ess.

[TwilightZone]

45. Agreed.

It seems that a lot of people looked at impeachment as some kind of magic wand of justice or a way to get rid of Trump. It was never going to be either.

As you noted, it would serve the purpose of further exposing Trump, but it is not a removal tool. The most realistic way to get rid of Trump was always going to be to vote him out in 2020.

[triron]

66. Nope. Putin will be even more emboldened to keep Trump where he is. Who is going to stop him?

[Thomas Hurt]

71. Not you, you have already given up.

You have already given into idea that the Democrats in this country cannot get enough votes to overcome Russian interference that has never quantified.

[NoMoreRepugs]

39. How can people be giving up and getting discouraged

because Congress hasn't initiated Impeachment proceedings? Has anyone on our side seen the Mueller Report in its entirety? No? Are there multiple investigations into tRumpy that the White House is fighting tooth and nail? Yes. And on and on.

Long story short. For those of you cupcakes that were never in a real fight - it doesn't really start until you get up off the ground after you've gone down a few times.

[sheshe2]

51. I like your thinking.

How can people be giving up and getting discouraged
because Congress hasn't initiated Impeachment proceedings?

With you here. How many days have we/they had that huge 4 page summary of a 400 page report that was two years in the making. How many days have we had that fully redacted report?

Has anyone on our side seen the Mueller Report in its entirety? No?

You are correct. No is the answer.

Are there multiple investigations into tRumpy that the White House is fighting tooth and nail?

Far more than you can count on two hands.

Love your last paragraph, NoMoreRepugs.

[StarfishSaver]

116. An impeachment inquiry isn't some magical door that opens into an otherwise inaccessible kingdom

It’s a series of investigations and hearings that pretty much follow the same rules and procedures that any other committee or proceeding would follow.

Any information gathered in an impeachment inquiry can also be obtained through other inquiries by other committees.

This notion that, if the House starts impeachment immediately, treasures of information will suddenly flow like mighty streams, administration officials will loosen their tongues and admit their criminality, Trump will be run out of office, and Democracy will be saved just isn’t a reality. That’s not how it works.

This is a slow, hard process whether it’s done as an impeachment inquiry or otherwise. The House has started and is digging and pushing on many fronts, which is exactly as it should be. I’m grateful they aren’t allowing themselves to be bullied into jumping ahead of themselves and screwing it up.

I’m glad I’m not alone on this!

[EffieBlack]

119. +1

[bearsfootball516]

44. Vote.

[TwilightZone]

46. Yeah, that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. +1,000,000

[Irishxs]

47. Feel like crap, also. I'm torn between being as nasty as the gop,

and being a decent democrat. It seems like evil is winning every day.

[WheelWalker]

49. Horseshit.

[standingtall]

50. I think Trump will be impeached

I think the game changer is going to come when whoever the Democratic front runner for President is starts calling for impeachment and I think eventually that will happen despite Warren being the only one to call for it so far.

[sarabelle]

56. He may be. But it won't matter.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

67. I hope you r right

[Hoyt]

58. It certainly feels that way. Worst case, the election is not that far off.

[mountain grammy]

64. I agree. He does everything he says he'll do

The Supreme Court is gone for good.

Too many Americans are just stupid.

The economy is good.. too good but it just keep chugging along.

Too many Americans are just stupid.

[stopbush]

68. Wow. You sure quit easy. Luckily our elected

officials don’t.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

76. Hope you are right! Sincerely. If there's impeachment

I will be the happiest wrong person on Earth.

[SunSeeker]

100. +1

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

70. Trashing this thread

[Fiendish Thingy]

73. Lick our wounds? How about doing some wounding of our own? Defeatism is for cowards.

Not a shotgun approach, but surgical snipers designed to inflict maximum fear into the obstructionists.

The deadline for the full Meuller report expires Monday. In addition, I heard reports on MSNBC that contempt proceeding are expected to begin on Monday. Those should be the opening shots across the bow, that, if ignored, should turn into targeted political and legal head shots.

The Constitution can't wait.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

78. If we ran the show. But we don't. By the way, heard

that even if we hold them in contempt, they will not be able to throw them in jail. It will be a fine...and it all will whither away.

It's not like I haven't thought about every angle. Read it could be 20 years before a full redacted report is seen.

[Fiendish Thingy]

99. Did the Vietnam Cong run the show? Did the Minutemen?

If this is war, we've got to start thinking like insurgents.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

124. I hear ya. I think we think fine. It's our leaders, sadly

[StarfishSaver]

118. You may think you've thought about every angle but we probably don't know half the angles

But you can bet Pelosi and Nader and Schiff and Waters and Cummings, etc. and their lawyers and experts do and have looked at and considered every one of them from every possible perspective.

They know what they’re doing. We’re just on the sidelines guessing based on the fraction of information we know.

[Turbineguy]

77. Trump may be thinking he'll get away with it.

Laugh on you suckers!

Well, maybe. He will delay it however.

[revmclaren]

79. First thread I have ever trashed

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

83. Feel honored!

[revmclaren]

84. Not the word I would use...

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

138. Wow, that person throwing up is very cool.

[walkingman]

82. I think this is exactly what Trump is trying to do - get people talking about his outragious

behavior and look the other way while he acts like he has done his whole life. Talk shit and have others cover for his sorry ass. The only way to beat him is to ignore his mouth and legislate him to the nervious breakdown stage. After that his only solution will be war which the country will reject.

[doc03]

85. Unemployment is at a 50 year low, has the

incumbent president ever lost with an economy like that?
We all know Trump inherited the longest economic expansion in history. But Democrats failed to take credit for it. Nearly everyone I talk to has been brainwashed into thinking the economy was bad under Obama.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

120. Good and bad trait.. Obama never brags. Add to

that we haven't had any media strategy to counter what trump says over and over. Unchallenged repetition true or false works.

[I_have_had_enough]

95. Fight

Always fight.
You will never win without fighting.
Time to redouble efforts.

[Mme. Defarge]

102. KEEP CALM AND

GOTFV!!!

[Captain Zero]

104. First time I saw this bumpersticker was today.

Anyone But Trump - 2020.

Short, sweet. No one they can target.

[GusBob]

106. Its over for me too

Never have put a fellow DUer on ignore. Youre the first. May you forever be the only.

The edit history for the OP pushed me over the edge.

Good bye

[ZZenith]

107. Where would we be without you to demoralize us?

[Tipperary]

110. Ugh.

[EffieBlack]

111. Well, he beat you, at least.

Most of the rest of us aren't as easily cowed. He hasn't beaten us and he won't.

Please at least stay out of the way while we handle this (don't worry, we'll save your ass, too ...)

[lark]

115. Not just 4 years - for the foreseeable future.

drumpf isn't going to be there for 8 years without totally destroying our constitution and way of life - hes PUtin's puppet and he just won't be able to resist the temptation to totally destroy us via the orange meance and russian repugs everywhere. The fascists run Russia, SA and Israel and they will not rest until they run the USA as well and drumpf is their leading edge that is already hard at work to make the designation democracy a total joke.

[ismnotwasm]

121. What, exactly, is "over"?

[Paladin]

123. Oh, goody. Yet another "trump is lord and master of the universe" thread.

Spare us, OK?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

133. Never praised him. He is an evil conniver. We brought

A knife to a gun fight.

[doompatrol39]

126. Our side needs to stop acting like we are dealing with anything normal..

..I really don't care how it used to be or the lack of comity or civility or disrespect for the parameters of the office of President or of Congress. We are so far beyond that, and watching our leaders try to "shame" the other side or point out their hypocrisy while the other side laughs all the way to the bank of the back of the American public is pathetic and maddening.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

137. Sadly, everything you are saying is 100% true DP

[Bayard]

128. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!!

DEMOCRATS---we--are the last, best hope for this country.