The Rude Pundit: Practical Impeachment Politics: Your Objections Are Bullshit

[babylonsister]

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2019/05/practical-impeachment-politics-your.html

The Rude Pundit
Proudly lowering the level of political discourse
5/08/2019
Practical Impeachment Politics: Your Objections Are Bullshit


Too many Democrats are tying themselves in knots in order to avoid committing to impeachment hearings for President Donald Trump, a man who, in his best days, betrays the public trust ten times before finishing his first Sausage McMuffin of the morning. But the arguments Democrats make are utter bullshit, and they're belied by history, circumstance, and the Democrats' own actions.

For example:

"Why bother impeaching Trump when we know the Senate won't vote to convict?" is something you hear over and over and over. Yet, a few days ago, the Democratically-controlled House of Representatives, where impeachment hearings and votes would occur, passed a bill that forces the United States to stay in the Paris accord on climate change. In the past couple of months, the House has passed an election reform bill, a gun control bill, a gender pay gap bill, a bill rejecting Trump's emergency declaration on the border, a net neutrality bill, and a bill that funds converting unicorn farts into renewable energy. Well, not that last one, but they may as well have.

You know what all the real bills have in common? There's not a flea fuck in Hell's chance that the Republican-controlled Senate will pass them. The bills are, for all practical purposes, being voted on for show - show what we believe, show what they oppose. But Nancy Pelosi has no problem lining up bill after bill, just begging the Senate to shoot them down so that Democrats can campaign on how Republicans want us all to die, take away our rights, and force us to have babies. Almost no one talks about how this is a waste of time because it really isn't. Rallying the faithful is as good a cause as any.

snip//

We also hear that impeachment is so serious because it might mean a lawfully-elected president is removed from office, undoing the will of the (not majority of the) people. But those people also elected a Congress, and those members of Congress have impeachment as one of their duties. It would be just as wrong to say that they shouldn't do one of the things they were entrusted with if necessary.

Elections have consequences. We fucking know that. It's time that Donald Trump learns that lesson, too.

[watoos]

1. Impeachment hearings are more than rallying the faithful,

We haven't seen all of the Mueller report, we haven't seen the juicy part, the grand jury testimony. If a request is made for the grand jury information from an impeachment committee, no way in hell can Republicans deny that request and get away with it.

Impeachment hearings carry more clout with the courts and that's where this battle is going to be won or lost.

[Perseus]

9. But we have seen in plain daylight the obstructions, the corruption, etc. Democrats need to make

light of it, they need to throw memes out there constantly, point out the obvious what we all see the buffoon do every day. Any time he does something illegal, which is every day, Democrats need to shout it out, repeat, repeat, and then repeat so that it becomes a meme and people start realizing that we have a corrupt government that needs to be stopped, that we have a crook at the sit of government ready to give the country away to Putin.

I agree that public hearings have a lot of weight, but I believe that in the meantime Democrats need to point out all the traitorous actions of the buffoon as well as McConnell and the rest of the repubs, start a campaign to let the country, and the World know what they are doing, shout it loud and clear so even the brain-dead MAGA people will understand.

I used to be part of a group that teaches minority kids golf, every Friday we had a mandatory meeting where the founder, a great speaker, would talk about things like perseverance, honesty, and good attributes that humans should have. I could see five and six year old kids moving around on their chairs, not paying attention. One day I asked the founder if he noticed that, he said "of course I do, but I know that some of it stays in the their brain, and as they get older, it will become part of who they become"...my point, Democrats start a campaign to unmask the corruption, to shout it so everyone can understand and eventually it will click on even the brain-dead who support the buffoon.

[watoos]

11. You're preaching to the choir.

I play golf with an 86 year old who shoots his age or better and believe me I don't touch the ball, even when it's wet out and playing the ball down is questionable. I laugh when someone plays with us and he catches them rolling their ball, he doesn't mark a score down for that hole. When they ask him what they shot for 9 holes and he says 31, I have to turn away I can't hold it in. The guy won't let me move up to the senior tees and I'm 71 so our matches end up being pretty close.

[olegramps]

20. My major concern is how will it affect the election, either positively or negatively for Dems.

[angrychair]

30. Just as valid a concern

"How will not going through impeachment affect the election?"

Another valid concern:

"If we do not impeach trump than are we, more importantly the Legislative branch, conceding powers to the Executive branch that was never intended by the Founding Fathers?"

[Eyeball_Kid]

32. The trend line is moving toward an invalid 2020 election.

If Trumpy sees that he'll lose by a large margin, he'll find a pretense to cancel the election (That's easier than it sounds). If the election is close, he'll contest all of it and will manipulate the totals.

Trumpy doesn't care about law, convention, or anything else but gaining power and obliterating his enemies. So he has no respect for any elections that he doesn't win.

Beware. Trumpy is an emerging fascist dictator. He will NOT peacefully relinquish power. Ever.

[angrychair]

37. I don't completely disagree

I'm hoping for a strong and significant outburst from the American people. While I'm a pessimist I still think that national labor strikes and mass protests are enough to overcome the situation if needed.

The real question is the will of the American people to do those things. I question the resolve of the American people to act if needed.

[treestar]

53. Each states holds the election

He can't stop it.

[Brawndo]

69. It will take voting and then force, I don't see any other way.

[olegramps]

68. As I said both choices have consequences.

Is there an alternative that can achieve the same results. One would be to hold investigations into every aspect of this rogue presidency and pass effective legislation gained from these investigations to more effectively hold the president accountable. It appears that there are far to many loopholes and unspecified restraints on the powers of the president. Unfortunately, it seems that the founders of our nation didn't foresee the election of an unprincipled amoral person who could be an enemy of what they have sworn to uphold and protect. They were men of honor and their word was iron clad.

[Traildogbob]

35. Do nothing?

His base is already wired. Have you seen the KKKlan rallies. Do nothing out of fear, like snowflakes? He will rant about wiping the floor with the congress, they will be more wired, election corruption will explode even more, we lose the house. He wins, and walks away clean after statute of limitations expire in second term and he will be so empowered in a second term the country will be done. Not why I served, volunteered, with a draft number of 324, during Vietnam era. My vow still holds true, I will protect from an enemy within, will die trying as soldiers always do. Time to end the Russian take over and the comb over.

[stonecutter357]

2. " he's just not worth it" , House Speaker Nancy Pelosi .

[warmfeet]

3. He's not, but the country is.

[ehrnst]

18. That was trolling him. (nt)

[anarch]

4. I look at it as doing what is right vs. doing what is pragmatic

Without the absurd political reality we're forced to live with as far as the current incarnation of the GOP existing/being given any kind of credibility and role in our system of governance, if there was any real adherence to the constitution and the rule of law, this fucker would have been impeached some considerable time ago (well I mean he wouldn't be where he is at all...)

There's no question as to what is the right thing to do, unless you're on the side of the fascists here. But it's all complicated politically and such an overtly cynical approach to basic decency and the rule of law pisses people off. Well, I know it does me.

I think once the percentage of the population who are pissed off about it is large enough and vocal enough, Congress will have no choice but to impeach.

[pdsimdars]

7. Well, that's not the point he was making, and your thinking doesn't hold up.

If it is not practical to start impeachment hearings because the Senate won't, they why is it practical to pass all those bills that you KNOW the Senate won't pass? Either they are both practical or impractical or not.

[anarch]

25. don't get me wrong; I agree with the Rude One's perspective

I think it's incumbent upon Congress to impeach. That's what pisses me off. I mean, I'm not going to withhold my vote or whatever one way or the other, but at the end of the day that's just defeatism, saying "well they'll never convict anyway so what's the use?," accepting that we have to put up with this obstructionist sham-governance from the Republicans, who are just there to line their pockets and those of their corporate masters...

[Botany]

5. Not impeaching Trump is like letting a bank robber keep the money.

And as per the Senate Republicans voting to keep Trump as POTUS, fine. Let them stand
beside that un-American treasonous grifting slime ball. The Mueller report will come out
and that is a done deal.

[pdsimdars]

8. Yes, let them put their names down in that vote as standing with the traitor.

They can't take that vote back, make them take the vote.

[Eyeball_Kid]

34. Trumpy's path to consolidating dictatorial powers is clear and convincing.

With the Republican Party on his side, he has enough power to push aside any Constitutional proceeding and disregard ANY resistance against his assuming autocratic rule. His path to dictatorship is his to lose.

[Eyeball_Kid]

36. Dictators can run rings around a deliberative democratic republic.

Translation: Trumpy is ripping the Constitution to pieces. Right now.

[Rambling Man]

66. He's not waiting for the "right time."

Cat is out of the bag.

[pdsimdars]

6. This is a brilliant point, especially for rational minds. Apply the same rule

Either passing bills in the House is worth it even if the Senate doesn't AND embarking on impeachment hearings EVEN though the Senate won't vote on it. OR
It is not worth passing bills AND impeachment.
Not rational to apply disparate rules.

[Timmygoat]

10. This is unrelated but...

Now that they are purging journalists from the White House briefings, why don't all reporters boycott them, then we will not need
Huckleberry Sanders, after all we pay her!

[watoos]

15. The M$M is not our friend.

I only watch Nicolle and Rachel. There are some very good reporters out there but I'm more talking about the narrative. The corporate controlled right wing M$M controls the narrative and the significance of that is extremely important.

[Paladin]

12. Great statement of where things stand, from The Rude One.

trump is just going to keep insanely pushing things, until Democrats have to initiate impeachment proceedings, making us look like a bunch of gutless wonders. Much better to seize the initiative now and take action against this madman. It's long overdue.

[panfluteman]

13. Voting to Impeach Trump Is a Political Statement that the Democrats Have to Make

And one that will really define the playing field in 2020. It will lay out, in no uncertain terms, why Donald Trump is unfit for the office of the Presidency, and exactly what he has done to violate the public trust of the voters who put him in the White House in the first place. Without formally beginning the impeachment process and voting on impeachment in the house, the American voter will get the mistaken idea that Trump is really innocent, and that it was just another political Democrat versus Republican thing. The stakes are incredibly high for our democracy. If Trump isn't worth impeachment, then who is???

[lame54]

14. He still didn't explain how to get past a McConnell senate...

This isn't '73/'74
McConnell won't budge

[watoos]

16. His main point was that holding impeachment hearings

isn't just about being able to convict in the Senate. There is much value to be gotten simply by just holding the hearings in the House. I keep harping on the fact that we can get the grand jury testimony released to Congress if the request is made from an impeachment committee.

[lame54]

19. I know impeachment is the right thing to do but...

A loss would empower Trump
And that is wrong

Exposing more Trumpness doesn't seem to hurt him

[watoos]

26. The "loss" would come from Republicans in the Senate,

Wouldn't it be a bigger loss if Democrats didn't bother? Wouldn't Trump use that to claim that even Democrats admitted it was a witch hunt?

[lame54]

49. Good questions - no answers - just predictions and...

There in nothing less reliable than a Trump prediction

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. No evidence to support your assertion

You fear that a loss would empower Trump, but there's no proof. Oh he would definitely crow "Total Exoneration!", but after months of hearings, and debate in the senate, covered constantly in the MSM, there would be no way he would escape unwounded heading into the election, the first time an impeached president is running for re-election. It would give significant opportunity to William Weld and whoever else has the courage to oppose Trump in the primaries.

[lame54]

50. Actually - there is no evidence for either outcome except...

Trump seems to slip out of every situation and make 'em his talking points

[FiveGoodMen]

59. "Almost no one talks about how this is a waste of time because it really isn't.

Rallying the faithful is as good a cause as any."

I think that covers the issue.

(He didn't say we WOULD get it passed the Senate)

[lame54]

60. There's the rub...

We must impeach or we will lose the election

If we impeach we will lose the election

Everybody is so sure of their outcome

Problem is - NOBODY EFFIN KNOWS

Those who say it's irrelevant because impeaching is the right thing to do

F That - the right thing to do is what gets Trump out

With all due respect to the rude one - he doesn't know the outcome any better than the rest of us

We are in Trumpworld where nothing is predictable

[FiveGoodMen]

61. We don't know the outcome, but...

How many times has the GOP gotten away with WAY too much while we calculated and kept our powder dry?

The whole attitude is a losing one. And we've been losing ground on things that matter for a long time.

[lillypaddle]

17. Can't believe someone alerted on a Rude Pundit post

Gimme a fucking break.

[PufPuf23]

22. There are folks

at DU and in the Democratic party leadership that are in deep denial.

[moonseller66]

21. Hey Nancy and (Democratic) Congress

You either follow that "Damn Piece of Paper" or you don't! There's NO MIDDLE GROUND!

Do the job you were elected to do.

Then when the Senate Republicans deny what you've asked for, beat the hell out of them for their partisan, obstructionist, one percent ass-kissing, power grabbing attempts to get re-elected or elected in 2020.

Fuck the media. Get on those insipid Sunday morning shows and open your damn mouths. Make some fucking noise for a change and do what the MAJORITY of voters (not electoral college assholes) wanted in the first place... If you had done your job in 2016 we wouldn't be worrying over the death of Democracy!

NO TRUMP!!!

Jesus, can your direction be any clearer?

[MrsCoffee]

23. What did you expect them to do in 2016?

We didn’t have control of shit.

It’s almost like someone colluded with a foreign power to make sure of that or something.

[moonseller66]

28. What did I expect them to do?

I didn't expect them to go on vacation from talk shows.
I didn't expect them to be as absent from the media as they could (Oh my, we weren't invited!).
I didn't expect them to be so freaking self confident that they ignored a lot of campaigning in what they took for granted were "Sure-fire Democratic" states.

Yeah, we didn't control shit. But then back in 2006 -2010 neither did the Repbulicans and they were everywhere complaining about Democrats while the Democrats sat back and did nothing. Because of that no Bankers suffered -no 1%ers suffered but a lot of Americans did.

What did I expect them to do? How about their fucking jobs? Just because they're in power or not doesn't mean they get a free pass on doing what they are elected to do.

[TwilightZone]

62. Well, it's a good thing none of that happened then.

Gotta love revisionist history.

[Rambling Man]

65. None of what you propose

even considers "feel good" solutions, fawning, or "Dear Leader" adulation!

It's as if you think this isn't a super hero comic book movie!

[Javaman]

24. here's the part that was snipped out... equally important...

The catalyzing effect would be even stronger when it comes to impeachment. You might hear that a majority of Americans don't think impeachment hearings are warranted. A recent Marist poll showed that 53% of those surveyed oppose them. Except when you dig into the poll, a much more interesting picture appears. Sure, 91% of Republicans oppose impeachment, with 70% of Democrats supporting it. But more fascinating, independent women support impeachment 54% to 37%. And, further down, a majority of just about every group other than Republicans as a whole support either impeachment or more investigations. Finally, 70% of Democrats say they would definitely vote for a candidate who supports impeachment, with, intriguingly, Independents split on whether or not they would.

And, honestly, I don't think most people understand that there are hearings before impeachment. A whole lot of Americans are primed and ready for those. They would naturally reveal more about Trump's obstruction efforts and function as congressional investigations. What those investigations end up proving about Trump's criminality and unfitness for office might significantly move the needle on impeachment support. As PBS Newshour points out, "When the Watergate scandal broke in 1973, only 35 percent to 40 percent of Americans wanted to move forward with impeachment proceedings against President Richard Nixon. One year later, more than 70 percent thought Congress should begin impeachment proceedings against Nixon."

On top of that, with 70% of Democrats already on board the impeachment train, failure to move it forward might have the effect of depressing the vote. That's what I think is behind these reports that Republicans really, really want impeachment to go forward. Those motherfuckers are double-dog daring Democrats, seeing a way to split the party on the issue. Man, fuck them and what they think. You're gonna let the arsonists tell you what fire alarms to buy? If Democrats followed Elizabeth Warren's lead and just outright embraced impeachment because it's, you know, their fucking duty, it would electrify Democratic voters and get them engaged and ready and anxious to punch Republicans right in the dick in 2020.

[ginnyinWI]

27. Timing.

I think early 2020 would be an optimal time to start impeachment hearings. And by then they will have uncovered a lot more underlying evidence and had a chance to get it out.

[Wednesdays]

38. Well, by then there'll be talk of

"just let it go, because the election is right around the corner."

[babylonsister]

42. I don't think we can wait 8 more months.

Things happen daily that reinforce my opinion he needs to go, the sooner the better.

[uponit7771]

46. Depends on the courts, once they start fast tracking I think the attitude will change

[The_Counsel]

29. Why Not Just Impeach the Bastid Because He Broke the Law??

End of explanation.

That complicit Republican Senators will never vote to convict is beside the point.

In fact, THERE'S your rallying cry for the base AND independent voters.

I can't believe this simple thing needs to be pointed out....

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. Fuckin' A!!! Rude Pundit puts a stake in the heart of cowardly defeatism! Nt

[Blue Owl]

39. Your favorite reason for not impeaching tRump sucks

n/t

[calimary]

40. Love His Rudeness!

[yaesu]

41. Its way past time for the criminal GOP to get a good spankin. nt

[El Mimbreno]

43. Impeachment is the strongest form of censure available.

Our rep, Xochitl Torres Small says this: "When I was elected to Congress, I promised to hold our elected leaders accountable ... That includes our president; no one is above the law." Yet she explicitly said "no" to joining the impeachment movement.
I don't understand.

[StarfishSaver]

44. Strawman argument. Most objections to opening an impeachment inquiry now have nothing to do

with any of the claims in this piece.

In fact, most Democrats don't oppose impeachment but just think it should be done with the right timing and tools.

[uponit7771]

48. On here and other left politico boards the theme has changed but not with dem pols they continue

... with some of the political ramification BS ...

Heard a senator on a talking head show yesterday talk about Clinton popularity without talking about dems not winning control of anything for 2 election cycles, who cares if they gained a net 2 seats !?!?

Honestly I don't think dems thought the Mueller report would be that bad, otherwise the relatively on message group of people would have something more outlined than "not right now"

[EffieBlack]

64. This

Dead spot on

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

45. By that logic there is no point whatsoever in

passing any legislation in the House, because the Senate won't approve.

What's that saying about all that's needed for evil to succeed is for good people to say nothing? Not impeaching is that exact equivalent. It's the sin of silent consent.

[Rizen]

47. The consequences of inaction are worse

Like letting Trump get away with obstruction of justice and many other crimes. If Republicans in the Senate don't convict and the Mueller report gets out it will make them look bad. Dems need to be leaders now.

[Docreed2003]

51. Great article...apparently we aren't the only ones reading DU today

Thom Hartmann just straight quoted from this without crediting it in a rant.

[saidsimplesimon]

54. Credit should always be given

to the original thought, however, many of us are on the same page. Who cares who gets credit? My goal is to win the next election.

[Docreed2003]

56. Did I say it wasn't my goal?

Was just pointing out something I found interesting.

[saidsimplesimon]

57. Docreed, do not be offended

You are a long time member, mea culpa.

[Docreed2003]

58. No worries, wasn't offended.

Just making sure you knew we were on the same page. Have a good one

[treestar]

52. At least start the hearings

That will move the needle.

[uponit7771]

70. Impeach Nixon 43% ... Impeach Trump 45%

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212086857

[tiredtoo]

55. Sad to say

Democrats actions regarding trump and impeachment are political decisions.

[MySideOfTown]

63. It's all about timing.

Bring it to soon, or bring it too late or bring it right on time. That is what I think Pelosi is thinking about and I'm confident that she will do her best to bring it right on time.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

67. impeach the treasonous motherfucker already!

Why wait for Hair Furor and the Russiapublicans to finish killing democracy?