"If What I/He Did Was So Bad, Why Didn't You Impeach?"

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Get ready to hear this over and over and over and over and over during the 2020 Election if we don't impeach the bastard. They're probably already printing, "Why didn't you impeach?" bumper stickers as we speak.

And for all the naysayers who point out (probably correctly) that if we impeach and the Senate declines to convict, he'll strut around crowing about how he was exonerated, I say this: He's going to that anyway. Hell, he's already doing it. If you're worried that he's going to make, "They tried to impeach me, but they didn't have any evidence," a central talking point during the election, the counter to that argument is painfully easy. You just reply that he was exonerated by a partisan Republican Senate who turned a blind eye to the OVERWHELMING evidence (make sure it's always described as OVERWHELMING evidence), and Party over country in order to free a crook. Obviously the verbiage will need to be tweaked for maximum effect, but you get the idea. You turn the whole, "I thought you were going to drain the swamp," thing on its head and attack him with it. The people who voted for him simply because they wanted an "outsider" who would "clean things up" will get it.

So, for me, it comes down to a choice: Either DON'T impeach and look weak in the eyes of a populace who ALREADY thinks you're weak, or do impeach and start coming up with killer counter-arguments to their "exonerated in the Senate" tripe now. As far as I'm concerned, the answer is easy. In athletics, there's a common coaching phrase that goes, "Do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong." Doing NOTHING for fear of being wrong is the worst mistake you can make. You'll ALWAYS be wrong, and you'll look weak doing it. By impeaching and eventually losing, at least we can say, "Hey, at least we TRIED to do something. They were the ones who put Party over country and chose to protect a criminal over protecting the Constitution (or protecting America/Americans/etc., whichever language seems stronger)."

[FoxNewsSucks]

1. Absolutely.

It really makes me wonder what is going on that this isn't completely obvious to everyone.

[Brainfodder]

19. Wondering

If perhaps Nancy P. is allowing for more public displays of I'M NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING parading around like he does, and lots and lots of it.

THEN DROP THE I-HAMMER and vitriol/evidence in a timely fashion, for the run up to the election AFTER he IS the official nominee?

The ads will write themselves?

Take advantage of the ad buys which will be YUGE!

I quit watching regular TV entirely, so I will miss it.



Meanwhile the counter to Joseph Biden is he's handy and old, which is spot on accurate for their guy, good luck with that!

He is not even deserving to have the option to touch Joe's boot?

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Proud to be first rec.

We need to stop believing that acquittal in the senate is political suicide. NOT doing anything will suppress voter turnout in 2020.

[SunSeeker]

13. Exactly. nt

[CanonRay]

3. Yup!

[mopinko]

4. take that "weak party" jacket off and put it on them.

let them be the party of covering up for felons.
let them be the party of slavish loyalty to russia.

yeah, we can only lose by looking/being weak.

[Raster]

5. Begin IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY proceedings immediately!

Get the facts out to the American people in prime time, and then let the American people decide if actual impeachment is the path to take.

[Leghorn21]

8. YES. Open hearings, starting with trump pal Felix Sater, who was scheduled to testify on March 27 -

when Barr released his “summary” on March 24, Sater was kicked to the curb. Bring him back NOW.

Throw in Allen Weisselberg, Rona Graff, Mark Corrallo, Hope Hicks, Annie Donaldson and Tom Barrack and is there any reason Rick Gates can’t get on the stand in a public hearing??

LET’S GO HERE

[c-rational]

6. I agree, ITMF. And here is the counter argument. The fix was in and is in!

[lindysalsagal]

7. Tacit approval is conspiracy.

It's time to file the inquiry.

[Qutzupalotl]

9. We must do our duty and not fear the consequences.

If we stand on principle, people will be more likely to support us in the future. If we stand for political considerations over the Constitution, why would anyone trust us again?

I don’t buy the Senate acquittal = Trump victory. Just ask President Gore.

[Demsrule86]

62. That is insane...no people won't support us. There is every reason to believe we could lose the

house and the presidency in 20 if we impeach...personally those are consequences to terrible to risk for a momentary 'gotcha' for Trump when he goes on with four more years to destroy this country...the worst thing that could happen to Trump in his view is to lose in 20.

[Qutzupalotl]

70. An impeachment inquiry includes educating the public

about the nature of the attack and who welcomed it. There is nothing about impeachment hearings that helps Trump. There will be video of witness testimony saying, Trump told me to lie, etc., for months. Absolutely people will support us.

Think about it: Trump will claim vindication either way. He does that every day. We might as well stand for the Constitution, or something besides political timidity.

[DLevine]

10. Yup. Absolutely agree.

Let's do the right thing.

[smirkymonkey]

11. I have been on the fence for a while, but I am now leaning toward impeach,

mostly because of this sentiment: "Either DON'T impeach and look weak in the eyes of a populace who ALREADY thinks you're weak, or do impeach and start coming up with killer counter-arguments to their "exonerated in the Senate" tripe now. As far as I'm concerned, the answer is easy. In athletics, there's a common coaching phrase that goes, "Do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong." Doing NOTHING for fear of being wrong is the worst mistake you can make. You'll ALWAYS be wrong, and you'll look weak doing it."

We look wishy-washy right now and paralyzed by the fear that we are going to do the wrong thing when we KNOW what the right thing is. He is a liar, a traitor and a criminal and needs to be removed from office. We can't base our actions on what the Senate will or will not do. We need to begin to make the case for impeachment now.

Thanks for your post!

[SunSeeker]

12. The voters will be asking why as well. nt

[berni_mccoy]

14. 100% Agreed. How can the Democratic Leadership not see this?

[cate94]

15. Watch Pelosi on Kimmel

She very clearly state that they are in process of building a case and that impeachment will come before 2020.

[earthshine]

52. She was a bit cryptic. I'm under the impression that she said she will sleigh this dragon.

She said (paraphrase) "no one knows more than I about of Trump's illegalities."

Further, she said she's trying to build an iron-clad case that even the republican senate and courts could not ignore.

[BlueWI]

69. Agreed - at least the public communication strategy

is being rolled out more intentionally. Overdue but welcome change in tactics.

If the urgency and pace of action and public communication can be maintained in the post-Mueller news cycles, that would also help.

[BigOleDummy]

16. Exactly!

Been saying this for awhile now. You put into words better though lol.

[Honeycombe8]

17. I think so, too. nt

[CloudWatcher]

18. That vote in the Senate ...

I think Wall Street is very close to urging the GOP Senators to remove this blight upon the economy. They're not happy.

Once he loses Wall Street, he needs to be planning an exit strategy.

[Sprite]

20. As per Donny Duetsch

Start calling this a criminal investigation.

[link:https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/change-impeachment-to-criminal-activity-donny-deutsch-60625989526|

[Ohioboy]

21. Exactly!

As hard as it is on the country, impeachment is what is needed. Trump himself has caused this.

[Hulk]

22. Seems to me there is still much work to be done first..

Calling people before the House to answer questions in order to have verified proof. If the ignore subpoenas, then hold them in contempt, fine and/or lock their asses up. Show some balls, and start with mNuchin and his ugly puss first!

[More_Cowbell]

42. Yup, the House will never get evidence if people ignore subpoenas with impunity

And Mnuchin is also MY first pick to be locked up!

[TalenaGor]

23. in my opinion the only way impeachment can be successful is if

There is enough conservative support that means we have to wait for more leaks and more crap to come out and for public opinion to shift more than it is now....

it's absolutely nuts that we're not already there.... But I believe that is what we are waiting for.... Because if there's enough public support then those conservative senators who go against their constituents will be out of a job.....

But when you've got a large portion of the public who still legitimately believe it's a witch Hunt..... We've got an uphill battle....

The goal is to motivate republican senators..... The only thing that can do that is public opinion....

[Farmer-Rick]

24. But can't they use that exact same argument when he is acquitted in the Senate?

"If What I/He Did Was So Bad, Why Didn't the Senate Impeach?"

Most Americans don't know that impeachment is just the act of filing charges. They see impeachment as the final vote. So they will NOT look on Trump as having been impeached. They would just look at it as another Democratic unsuccessful attempt.

[ancianita]

28. When they see Chief Justice Roberts conducting the Senate trial, they WILL see the gravity of it all

Last edited Fri May 31, 2019, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

The People's House must impeach. Sooner or later.

When Americans see Chief Justice Roberts conduct the Senate trial -- neutrally -- Americans WILL see the gravity of all that has been hidden from them.

As the Senate trial of Trump proceeds, we don't know all the House's evidence and arguments that Justice Roberts will present on national TV, but AMERICA will see the Truth of it all.

I'm not concerned that The People's House will have done everything it could. Americans will know it did.

I am concerned that sellouts of democracy in the Senate trial will be unmoved. Perhaps Roberts WILL move many hearts and minds. Because every Justice has much to say about cases at that level.

The Chief Justice does have a prevailing interest in preserving the Rule of Law. Americans should expect that he will vigorously make the House's case in the interests of preserving whatever the Supreme Court stands to lose.

But let America see it all.

Let the drama of the truth hit this country in the face.

Good or bad, Americans will see that The People's House did its best, no matter what.

[Jersey Devil]

36. Chief J Roberts would (and should) probably say nothing

The Chief Justice doesn't take the lead in an impeachment. He is there to make rulings of law when disputes come up over the law or rule on objections to testimony. While his rulings could be very important I hardly think they would "move many hearts and minds". He is supposed to be a neutral arbiter, not someone who makes "arguments" about the guilt or innocense of the accused.

[ancianita]

37. Of course he doesn't! He presides over the Senate trial which IS a trial with evidence and argument

Neutral presentation is done. Have you ever seen a Senate trial? No? Neither have I.

So imagine The People vs. Donald Trump, and who would present the case brought by the House.

If it's not anyone in the House, then who does it. I don't know.

But the gravity of Justice Roberts' presence will move Senators to stop the fucking politics and be aware of the constitutionality of it all. And their oaths.

I edited my previous post to include your point about Roberts' neutrality. Thanks.

[Jersey Devil]

46. Yes, I have seen a Senate trial

Chief Justice Rehnquist presided over Bill Clinton's impeachment trial in the Senate. He was as quiet as a church mouse, which is how it ought to be. I just think the Chief Justice would more likely blend in almost like he was part of the furniture and would not have any role that would put him in the spotlight.

[Farmer-Rick]

66. Yeah, that's how I remember him too

The Chief Justice more of a place holder, I didn't see him do much or say much.

And will turtle Mitch allow the media in? Can he stop them during the proceedings? Because if he can stop it from being made public, he will stop it.

[Paladin]

25. Well said. (nt)

[ancianita]

26. The message to Americans: "We are afraid." To defend the Constitution is the hill we win or die on.

Impeachment proceedings soon.

Not "at this time," but at SOME time. Impeachment after the RNC in late August.

Don't impeach, we lose. Impeach, we win. If the Repubs can try to rescind the ACA over 50 damn times, we can certainly hold impeachment hearings on daytime TV in September.

Until then, even with all of Speaker Pelosi's explanations, Americans will see Dems as weak even when In The Right.

Or they will see Dems to be truly country over party no matter when they begin formal impeachment.

If they don't see House Dems impeach after the conventions, they won't care what happens, because Putin and the Kremlin, feeding right wing media, will say, "See? Democracy is a failure. Get used to the fact that your constitution is dead, and you're not that special a country."

Protecting and defending the Constitution is the hill we will win or die on.

[honest.abe]

27. "Even the Democrats cleared me!"

It will be huge mistake to not impeach the lying, corrupt, idiot.

If there was ever a person worthy of impeachment, it is Trump.

[Initech]

29. Watch, when Trump is out of office, the dipshits will blame us for *NOT* impeaching.

Since Democrats always take the blame for everything they do, they will pin impeachment on us, and they will pin *NOT* impeaching on us. Nothing we do will ever be good enough for them, so it's a damned if we do, damned if we don't kind of situation.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

30. They are already saying it. Have had two Republicans tell

Me that. "We figured if you Dems really thought there was something there, you would have impeached".

That's why timing is so critical. As close to Mueller as possible...because most people think of him as nonpartisan and THE source since he spent two years in it. The longer we wait, the farther away we are from cause and effect. The more it will not be about Mueller and more about us. All that said, they want more than just obstruction to gain more support. So there's that and all the issues and impediments to getting there.

Still think we should do a quickie impeachment volume 1. Get the underlying evidence and photocopy ...boom

[ancianita]

31. We could win by losing, on constitutional principle. That means something to Americans.

Sooner's better than later. But right after the conventions might be best. High national voter and non-voter attention.

Sooner might be the best, even if we lose the trial, just because the electorate will vote, after a time of consideration about it all, to never let this president in office again.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. What do you think about only 50 something out of 235 house Dems being pro impeachment?

Do you think the rest would turn if NP gives green light?

[ancianita]

35. Yes. I think the rest are waiting for her to do that.

[emmaverybo]

54. I doubt it. I don't see House members who have to consider their constituencies bear an over-riding

loyalty to Pelosi. She is well aware to whom they are accountable. In any case, the Senate won’t convict him. What is is and what ain’t ain’t. The American people are not there yet. It is not a priority for the majority and well they know that the Senate won’t budge.
Why keep beating a dead horse?

[ancianita]

65. Fair points about constituencies' influence. Not so much the "beating a dead horse" claim.

Are you saying that if the country "isn't there yet," that it doesn't care, and therefore our governing body shouldn't care, as if caring is beating a dead horse?

Are you saying that a fight against Executive corruption using constitutional rule of law and congressional investigations is useless?

Just give up? Roll with corruption?

[emmaverybo]

71. No. I mean investigate, investigate, until the votes are there or he's voted out. The dead horse

is harping on Pelosi’s need or duty to impeach before the will is there in the country, in the house.

[ancianita]

72. Okay, investigate. But I wouldn't call will that's not there a dead horse, but just will that's not

moved yet to show itself. We'll see.

[ehrnst]

33. When you say "So, for me, it comes down to a choice:" that's the point.

You're not someone who has all the tools and experience to be able to see the actual ramifications, and actual choices.

We have leaders who do have these tools, and we have tasked them to spend their entire working lives figuring out the best way to do this, to legislate and get us through this constitutional crisis.

Pelosi has been chosen over, and over, and over by her Democratic House peers for her smarts, her cool under pressure, and decades of experience and to be their leader.

I know enough to know what I don't know, so I'm going to defer to her far more qualified judgement. That's not blind faith in Pelosi, that's just having the sense to know that I'm not the one who's got the best handle on the situation, and not assuming that an armchair quarterback is smarter than anyone coach down there on the field, in the actual game.

[marlakay]

34. I agree totally!

We must stand up to the bully, if you walk away because you think your not strong enough they just appear stronger and laugh behind your back.

[Ponietz]

38. It is time to take the names of those not supporting impeachment.

Too many are flying under the radar.

[JoeOtterbein]

39. Agreed 100% nt

[volstork]

40. +1000000

If not now, when?

[LEW]

41. Here, here

listen to some words of wisdom! Good job!

[librechik]

43. course we must impeach, like Atticus Finch has to defend

an innocent black man. It's a moral imperative.

Remember the end of that story. Atticus clearly demonstrated the innocent black man was physically incapable of the act he was accused of. The case was utterly clear: Not guilty.

Unfortunately every man on the all white jury was a member of The Konfederates or the like. The jury voted for guilty because the innocent man was black. Groupthink.

Nevertheless we are not the Konfederates, the two parties are very different, and our numbers will beat them. We have to go find them.

[BlueWI]

67. Exactly.

Extremely we'll put.

[TCJ70]

44. This is what will happen if they don't.

Republicans will spin it however they will, but that shouldn’t stop us from doing the right thing. In a position where you’re damned if you do or damned if you don’t, do the right thing and stop sitting on your hands.

You were given power by the people of this country to act as a check on the president. USE IT.

[dalton99a]

45. Kick

[bpositive]

47. Start now!

There are enough crimes to spend many, many years investigating. With hearings, each new day more incriminating info will be uncovered and divulged.

New Headlines daily in all media. Hang this impeachment moniker over his head- make him own it and defend it each day- let his sycophants out themselves and further incriminate themselves as part of the cover up. Watch the royal orange ones façade meltdown.

Don't even bring it to the Senate- it will not be necessary (IMO)- It will fail in that dysfunctional body anyways. The impeachment hearings may end unfinished with this congress and be picked up (restarted) in the next.

Knowledge is power- not many have read or heard the Mueller report (in fact- I'm only half way through myself). I strongly believe that once the public is aware of all of his wrongdoings that there would be a shift in public opinion wanting him gone.

Impeachment hearings are the means, voting in a Democratic President and Senate with a strengthened House are the ends to removing him- bypass the Senate all together.

Also, think of the timing with all of the other investigations in parallel to the impeachment hearings and the possibility that the economy will be in the crapper with all of the tariffs and tax cuts.

Trump needs to be removed. We need to start now!

[Hulk]

48. And that bull shit that 60% of Americans polled are against impeachment is hollow and worthless

Hollow and worthless because too many Americans aren't even paying attention. Fuck the trumptards. They would NEVER be for impeachment no matter what evidence is provided. That 60% figure, or whatever bull shit number entitled silver-spoon-stickin-out-of-her-ass mcCain claims means nothing!! Nada!

[fescuerescue]

49. That's true

That are either going to say "Why didn't they impeach" or they will say "he was found innocent in the impeachment".

And then they will vote for Trump again.

I don't like it, but what they say means nothing to me.

[pdsimdars]

50. This is exactly the argument I heard on MSNBC. And you KNOW it will happen.

And the Dems will say,"How could we have known?"
Well, we told you so. But apparently we're radical fringe so don't bear listening to.

[Nevermypresident]

51. Apparently we have not been polled yet, since that appears to be the decider.

Yet, our leaders have yet to find a vehicle to educate the voters (Articles of Impeachment) and and our House Democrats are not unified. Why would anyone expect polling in the current environment to sway in favor of Impeachment? conman and the repubs are controlling the narrative, we look weak, and now he and Barr are defying both the Legislative branch and Judicial Branch.*


*trump and Barr's DOJ not complying with Judge's order to release Flynn and Kislyak tapes

[Duppers]

53. +100

Thank you.

[Liberal In Texas]

55. rec #100

Exactly!

[shawn703]

56. What's the downside of having impeachment hearings

Last through the 2020 election. Don’t give it to the Senate to vote on so he can say he was exonerated, let it be a cloud over his entire campaign with constant drip drip drip of new evidence of wrongdoing being uncovered and reported to the press.

[Thunderbeast]

57. A losing conviction vote in the Senate

will put every coward Republican on record as representing corruption, racism, and ignorance over the good of the nation. The alternative is to confirm a narrative held by many voters that Democrats are afraid to use their Constitutional authority to preserve the republic.

IMPEACH! IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

[CaptainTruth]

58. I believe we will. It's just that, we'll be smart about it & strategic about it.

We'll impeach at the time that has maximum strategic advantage & gain for us.

What really frustrates (& honestly infuriates) me is how many people, who have zero experience in Congress, no law degree, & apparently little more than a rudimentary understanding of the process & no ability to recognise a strategy that's unfolding in front of their eyes, insist that NOW NOW NOW is the time to impeach & criticize Democrats with the fervor & intensity they should be focusing on Republicans.

STRATEGY MATTERS. TIMING MATTERS.

[argyl]

59. He'll be impeached in the House and given a pass in the a Senate.

And the House impeachment hearings will be on all News channels.

All the slimy misdeeds, crimes, spineless covering up will be blared out for all the country and world to hear. And the Dotard will go foaming at the mouth shit house rat crazy.

It's way past time to do this.

[panfluteman]

60. THAT'S RIGHT! SCREW THE SENATE! FULL SPEED AHEAD ON THE IMPEACHMENT TRAIN!

And remember the wimp factor. The American electorate hates wimps most of all. The Republican Senators who come around for impeachment will be seen as having a spine and doing the right thing for their country. The Republican Senators who don't come around for impeachment will be seen as co-conspirators with a treasonous, corrupt and criminal president. Starting impeachment hearings now is good politics, come what may.

When the wimp factor triumphs over all other issues and considerations, and the American electorate, through default, feels that it has to side with a strongman, as morally and ethically flawed as he might be, that will be the day when American democracy finally caves in to fascism and autocracy.

[Demsrule86]

61. We didn't impeach because there was no chance for removal with a recalcitrant senate.

We (House) focused on removing the president in 20 by defeating him in the presidential election...in the meantime we did what we cold to advance the people's business...and hold the president accountable by investigating his potential financial crimes and exposing what happened during the 16 campaign in terms of the Russian.

[warmfeet]

63. Yes, it is time for action.

[onlyadream]

64. 100% agree! Nt

[ecstatic]

68. If democrats do nothing, we lose the ability to say that repugs

have done nothing to stop trump. It's that simple.