So it's official. Democrats will not pursue Impeachment

[berni_mccoy]

After hearing Schiff on the morning talk shows this morning, it is clear the Democrats are not going to pursue impeachment. And I don’t buy for a second the excuse that “unless Trump’s behavior warrants it.” Like he hasn’t continued to block subpoenas and investigations? He will, and I’m pretty sure at this point nothing will come of it.

This is incredibly disappointing. The House was flipped to hold Trump accountable and oversight and investigations are falling short of that. They are meaningless while Trump blocks them and nothing is done about it.

The next election will come with exoneration for Trump due to the inaction of the House and a suppressed voter turnout for the Democrats. The Democratic base of voters need Trump to be impeached. It would be enough to see their party fight for them for Democratic voters to continue to turn out. Otherwise, it looks like Trump is acceptable and voters won’t care enough.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. They're not doing it *yet.* Doesn't mean they won't do it.

[berni_mccoy]

4. Schiff gave a 'strongly worded warning' to Trump

Rep. Schiff said on ABC’s This Week, “I think we’re going to do what’s right for the country, and at this point, the Speaker has not reached the conclusion, and I haven’t either, that it’s best for the country to put us through an impeachment proceeding that we know is destined for failure in the Senate. Now, that calculus may change if the president continues to stonewall, if the president continues to demonstrate his unfitness for office, there may be little additional cost to going through that process. It is, in a way, even if unsuccessful in the Senate, the ultimate form of censure in the House, but we’re not there yet, and if it is a close call, close calls go against putting the country through that.”

“That calculus won’t change.” Trump has done as much as anyone could to warrant impeachment already. At this point, I do not see it happening.

[dalton99a]

7. Heck, he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot Adam Schiff

and nothing would happen

[Blues Heron]

37. Are they waiting for an engraved invitation?

what more would he have to do? they're acting like they're being held hostage - why?

[LuvNewcastle]

47. I wonder if they're being blackmailed.

If Trump has information, you can expect him to use it. He'll take as many down with him as he can.

[Lunabell]

54. We're on the same wavelength here.

I wonder what's happening behind the scenes.

[George II]

81. Schiff said the "calculus may change", you're saying it won't? From whom did you get that?

[lapucelle]

33. Who is "us"?

[berni_mccoy]

38. The Democratic Base

[lapucelle]

41. I'm the Democratic base.

I'm the member of the local Democratic woman's caucus.

I'm the grunt who works every election for Democratic candidates.

I'm the lady who visits street fairs and other local events to register new voters.

I'm the volunteer who travels to swing state to work the ground games.

I'm the one with the key to the office who sets up the phone banks, assembles the lawn signs, and knocks on doors.

And I've been that woman for 40 years.

I don't appreciate anyone making demands in my name.

[berni_mccoy]

44. Good for you

The base is bigger than you and over 76% of us demand our leaders move on impeachment.

You’d be wise to reflect on your own words.

[erronis]

59. That seems to have snuffed the flame - for now. I'm not sure who's right or wrong

but I look forward t understanding more.

And I don't want anybody (ANYBODY) telling me how I should vote based on their opinions (OPINIONS).

[berni_mccoy]

80. OFFS, carry on.

You are wasted energy.

[Bettie]

58. Clearly, you are part of the minority of the base

or do you demand that each and every one of us say "nope, never, we'll just let him slide".

[Hortensis]

74. No, you're not. And please don't insult committed,

principled Democrats from a wide range of backgrounds who hold a wider still range of positions and interests by pretending to speak for anyone but yourself and at most a few who've assured you they do agree.

[George II]

82. House Committees do a lot more, a LOT more, than just hold hearings. If nothing else....

....for every hour of hearing time they spend dozens of hours preparing for such hearings. You think they walk into the hearing room and ask their questions from off the cuff?

[UniteFightBack]

6. Yes...YET! Once those financial doc's are in Dem's hands...it ain't gonna be pretty. nt

[appal_jack]

19. Fitzmas any day now, right? nt

[gldstwmn]

26. When hell freezes over it might even snow.

[appal_jack]

88. Porcine livestock evolving wings, too.

[UniteFightBack]

28. Do you believe his financial documents are going to come out clean? nt

[appal_jack]

42. Certainly not.

Nothing about Trump is clean, and financial matters appear to be among the dirtiest (second perhaps only to his approach to governance).

I just don't happen to think that the next breathless revelation regarding Trump crimes and outrageousness will have a particularly greater impact than all the previous breathless revelations regarding Trump crimes and outrageousness to which we've been an audience since 2015 or longer.

The question is, what are the Democrats in the House going to do about it? Your suggestion above of sitting on our hands until 2020 would just about guarantee that nothing would come of impeachment, while handing the corporate media a convenient narrative that all this is just a nakedly partisan campaign tactic.

We can and must do better, much sooner.

-app

[UniteFightBack]

56. It's about timing. Impeachment is a political process...right? So everybody is up in arms about

our leaders thinking politically to deal with a POLITICAL situation.

I like this impeachment hanging over his head...it's there just looming. Public support for impeachment has already increased....what do you think will happen once Dem's have CONTROL of hard evidence? You think that impeachment support will go up or down....? And then there is that timing of much closer to the election. He shan't be able to recover.

I wish folks would think with their heads and not their hearts.

[appal_jack]

87. I am willing to hear a rational argument for Fall 2019.

Perhaps waiting until September, 2019 to begin a formal impeachment inquiry and series of hearings could be the smart choice, but only if the House uses the intervening time wisely. Subpoena every witness possible, and demand every document conceivable. Let 45 & co. refuse each and every one.

Then, when Americans return from their summer vacations or seasonal jobs, and turn en-masse toward back current events at least a bit, the formal impeachment hearings could begin. And when they do, there would be no hurry. Keep summoning witnesses until they appear. Keep asking the same questions until satisfactory and complete answers are provided. If it drags all the way into Summer 2020 before any actual Articles of Impeachment are sent to the Senate, all the better. Let Republicans face the 2020 election with a fresh vote on impeachment right about 9/15/20 or so.

Of course, if it looks like we could obtain a conviction in the Senate before then against Trump, Pence, Barr, and Mnuchin, then we could speed things up. But I predict that 12 months of Impeachment hearings will be barely enough to uncover and widely air all the many crimes of this Presidency.

-app

[Bettie]

60. And when is that likely to be?

I have no doubt that this group of criminals will never turn a single document over.

The question is: will Democrats in congress do anything about that.

If the SCOTUS says "turn them over" and they don't, will THAT be enough? What is the bridge too far, because if we're not to it yet, I'm really afraid for our country.

[Honeycombe8]

73. They've decided against a paper impeachment (impeachment when the Senate won't impeach).

He left it open that maybe, one day, "if" this or that, and if it's strongly advisable, they might do a paper impeachment. But if it's a close call whether to do it or not, they've decided not.

So that's that.

Anyone surprised? I'm not.

[Demit]

84. Where did you get the phrase "paper impeachment" and what do you mean by it?

The House impeaches, the Senate holds a trial. If the House votes on Articles of Impeachment and it passes—even if the Senate acquits, or doesn't hold a trial at all, Trump will still have been impeached. Just like Clinton was impeached. The trial in the Senate resulted in his acquittal, but he was still impeached.

[mahina]

10. Arbitrary tactical error for what? For you?

Pass thanks.

[PSPS]

15. Because it's a political process

So many here are stomping their feet and "demanding" immediate moves toward impeachment. All well and good, but starting a political process at the wrong time guarantees its failure and backfiring. The democratic leaders in Congress are seasoned politicians who know how this works. I'll admit our system is horribly broken, but handing trump a political victory just to mollify one's impatience for "immediate action" is obviously the wrong thing to do.

[triron]

21. Exactly.

[gldstwmn]

27. The thing is it's never the right time.

[Thekaspervote]

51. Thank you!!

Schiff also reminded us that nothing... nothing but exoneration will happen in the senate, which means he cannot then be charged with those crimes later on. Wouldn’t it be GREAT to see the dotard leave office and immediately be subpoenaed, charged, jailed, exposed!! We have to play the long game!!!!

Oh yes... state crimes yes, but what if those don’t pan out? Then he does walk free

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Maybe Schiff, Pelosi, and others are using reverse psychology?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[earthshine]

39. "the leadership is strongly against opening an impeachment proceeding. "

It's been that way since 2006.

"Impeachment is off the table"

Even when Pelosi doesn't say it, she does.

[lapucelle]

48. Who is "us"?

[dalton99a]

3. Hope springs eternal for the shit-flinging orangutan - he'll pivot

[hlthe2b]

8. Please stop. No, they are not going to right NOW. They have NOT taken it off the table.

[berni_mccoy]

24. I wish you are right but I've heard this all before

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. Yes... it's startin to get old!! If impeachment is on the table, then let's eat!!

I'm starvin... impeach that traitorous prick NOW!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[LanternWaste]

91. Heard it about as many times as the corollary as well.

Lots of righteous rage predicated entirely on guess-work.

That's effective.

[mahina]

9. Not true. They are taking the necessary steps to investigate and are

Doing so in a fearless and determined way.

Adam Schiff in particular is a fucking hero for his fight.

The battle is going forward as the fighters choose. They are fighting for all of us and for democracy and I think they deserve our support, and don’t deserve to be pelted with spitballs from those of us in the comfort of our homes living our lives in safe remove from the war they are fighting every day. You have every right to do it of course.

We can’t be divided.

[mahina]

13. No.

Charmed, by the way.

[Celerity]

14. I think they may (I hope they do) start an enquiry before Thanksgiving. If that passes, I doubt they

will. I do not see them starting actual official impeachment proceedings at all. IMHO they really need to start an enquiry within the next 3 months or most all momentum will be lost. An enquiry gives us many more procedural tools.

[lapucelle]

30. Who is "us"?

[tymorial]

16. I have defended Mueller and the House leadership. So too have I ranted about inaction in weaker mom

It's clear to me that the house is in a catch-22 situation. They fear alienating voters on both sides. They recognize their oath (as demonstrated by Pelosi on Kimmell) but they also are aware that the Republicans are never going to hold an honest trial. Robert's will swear them all in to vote honorably based upon evidence but clearly oaths mean nothing to most Republicans. The Senate failure to remove would be spun as an exoneration by Trump. That would create issues next year and hamper future legal proceedings .

It is incredibly frustrating.

[appal_jack]

18. What would the worst message going into the 2020 election be?

Just as you say, berni_mccoy, Democats saying "well, you gave us the House in 2018, but we did not exercise the power explicitly granted us by the Constitution" would be a friggin' train wreck.

k&r,

-app

[BannonsLiver]

20. I suspect you would complain bitterly no matter what direction they go.

If they opt for impeachment there would be complaints about how it is being done etc.

[Empowerer]

23. Exactly

“If they would just open an impeachment inquiry, we’ll get off their backs.”

Right. We all know that the second-guessing from the keyboard warriors would only escalate since their confidence in their superior expertise is not limited to knowing better than the Speaker and committee chairs when an inquiry should be started. They will certainly have plenty to say about every move they make - and it won’t be complimentary, supportive or helpful.

[Hotler]

22. Fuck it!

[gldstwmn]

25. If they don't care about putting a stop to Trump

then why should I? We're losing a lot of traction here and I predict this is going to cost them dearly at the polls, if Orange doesn't appoint himself president for life. Orange was already Twitting this morning that they were getting nothing done in the House. They have had too much time to con volute this issue. What a disappointment.

[Meadowoak]

64. A lot of Republicans crossed over and voted for Democrats

In 2018. Why would they stick with us in 2020 when nothing has been done.

[lapucelle]

29. Schiff made an official announcement saying Democrats will not pursue impeachment?

Do you have a link to the official announcement?

[berni_mccoy]

31. Democrats have announced they will?

Because so far they’ve said they won’t.

Here’s Schiff’s words saying it’s not part of the “calculus”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12154466

[lapucelle]

32. Can you provide a link with actual quotes?

[berni_mccoy]

34. That is a real quote

[pnwmom]

40. The key words are "and at this point." There are only 50+ Representatives that openly support it

and Pelosi would need the votes of 218 to pass an inquiry of impeachment resolution. She can't strong arm 170 Representatives who aren't ready to go there yet, but much could be happening behind the scenes that we don't know about.

In the meantime we should be pressing our own Representatives, and telling them we support impeachment, assuming we do.

I'm going to my Rep's Town Hall next weekend.

https://townhallproject.com

[berni_mccoy]

43. Sorry pwnmom, I've heard this all before

The goal posts have been moved and I have no faith they will go there at this point.

[lapucelle]

45. That a partial quote. Do you have a link?

[Bev54]

49. STOP

Your gaslighting and BS makes you no better than someone on Fox News. It is time to support the only hope to get rid this stain on America. They will impeach him when they are ready, there is some very damaging information to come out that I believe Schiff and Pelosi know and most of us have only a slight awareness of. There is some very damaging counter intelligence information that is still to come along with money laundering. Can we just support them and urge them to hurry instead of stomping our feet on impeachment, that as of today, would do nothing but give Trump another win with McConnell stumping for him.

Seriously people start using your heads instead of your emotions on this subject. Call your reps and let them know you support them and urge them to ensure one way or another they have to get him out!

[Nevermypresident]

52. No. He is expressing what many of us lifelong passionate Democrats are feeling. I don't believe

most, if any, DU members are capable of being gaslighted.

I'm able to look at the facts, read the tea leaves, and assess what I think is going on. Accusing OP of of attempting to gaslight me is insulting to my intelligence.

[Blues Heron]

55. NO!

[Kurt V.]

53. agree. i just can't figure out why. anyway... moving on.

[Hoyt]

57. At this point, I'd rather the House start sending legislation to the Senate on

tariffs, healthcare, immigration, climate, global relations, etc., and let them and trump oppose it.

We are looking rather foolish on this whole impeachment issue. If the votes aren't there to impeach, just move on.

[Taraman]

61. How many bills have been sent to the Senate? 100?

McConnell won't let anything come to the floor. It's a ghost town over there. Except for packing the judiciary.

[Hoyt]

62. How many bills have been obscured by impeachment talks. I know they won't pass.

But at least we can run in 2020 on their failure to pass needed legislation -- like healthcare. Have we submitted a bill to the Senate on healthcare, on tariffs, on election protection, even censuring trump on foreign relations, etc. I'm not talking about proposals issued in the House say on healthcare. I'm talking about bills that have been approved by the House and submitted to the Senate. If that has happened, it's been obscured by the Impeach and investigation.

Right now, we are running on our inability to either find the courage to impeach, or more likely, find the evidence that will at least get the House to vote for impeachment. If we can't impeach him in the next few weeks, we need to move on.

[Taraman]

66. I don't know Hoyt. All I hear in the media is this fight within the Democratic Party

about whether to impeach or not. The Democrats are all weak -- their party is dysfunctional. The MSM loves that stuff.

The Republicans could weaponize a cooked spaghetti noodle, with the help of the MSM.

[Hoyt]

71. Don't really think it's the MSM fault. We are spending all our time on Impeachment, and obviously

I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.

Seems to me that if the polls are still showing the majority of people are opposed to Impeachment, say in the next week or two, we need to just give it up unless some truly startling new revelation occurs.

In any event, if we are not going to give it up, then start the formal Impeachment investigation knowing that the failure to Impeach in the House would be disastrous.

But like you -- I don't know either.

[ismnotwasm]

63. Jesus.

No.

[Freethinker65]

65. The Democratic leadership is going all in hoping Trump destroys himself and the GOP

They hope to give Trump enough rope and tie him to the GOP. Along with further investigations in the House and weekly news of Trump's instability, they think voters will notice. I was hopeful.

I am less certain of this after spending the weekend in Northern Michigan. I overheard a group of young voting age adults that find Trump to be an amusing idiot, easy to ridicule and definitely not up for the job, but they also found the whole process to be a joke, liked seeing Trump fuck over the opposition, and seemed not to really care as long as their way of life was not affected. They were all pretty affluent, spending a loud weekend at the family lake house. No dissent among the females who are losing their reproductive rights. Quite scary actually.

Michigan is a beautiful State, and I think Whitmer will get some good things done. I am glad however, now to live in Illinois.

[Honeycombe8]

69. What show was he on? I saw most of MTP. It looks like we're being strung along?

This is disappointing, mainly because that's not what they've been saying all along.

I don't know whether they should or not. But it CERTAINLY should be on the table, AS THEY HAVE BEEN TELLING US. Haven't they been telling us that? That they need a little more of this or that, that we're "not there yet," which implies that's where they're headed?

[berni_mccoy]

70. This Week on ABC... babylonsister had a post on it this morning

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12154258

[Honeycombe8]

72. Thx. nt

[brutus smith]

75. Impeach now!

The Dems are playing right into the repubs hands. People voted to overturn the house to get rid of trump. By not doing it we will not only lose the House, but the Senate and Presidency also. We need to stop being the party of the weak. DO IT NOW!

[redstateblues]

76. Impeachment? Then what? An exoneration party?

Impeachment goes nowhere. It a feel good gesture that doesn’t remove Trump

[berni_mccoy]

78. Exoneration will happen regardless. In a lose-lose situation...

doing what is morally and Constitutionally required becomes the default action. Failure to do so is to enable evil.

[Azathoth]

93. Trump being "exonerated" by a handful of GOP collaborators means nothing

Only his choir will buy that nonsense.

However, it's much easier to convince undecided voters that it's all a hoax when your opponents can't even bring themselves to charge you with wrongdoing.

[TwilightZone]

83. Official? Not hardly.

You have an odd definition of the term.

[Gothmog]

85. Here is some interesting polling

Link to tweet

[Nevermypresident]

86. Actually, no I can't understand the hesitancy based on polls. Televised impeachment

investigation hearings is our shot to educate 2020 voters, other than the Deplorables.

Secondly, it's the right thing to do now.

[Duppers]

89. Exactly!

[brooklynite]

90. Remember when Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre resulted in an immediate Impeachment effort?

No, you don't.

After the Saturday Night Massacre, it took SEVEN MONTH for the House to even start an Impeachment investigation. Of course, they didn't have an online blogosphere demanding instant gratification.

[Azathoth]

92. Anyone who remembers Democratic "opposition" to Dubya won't be surprised

We're trying to play a Marquess of Queensberry rules exhibition match against opponents who have embraced all-out terrorist warfare.

[yardwork]

94. Sez who?