I don't buy the Iran mine story for a damned second

[Recursion]

The worst thing is, these are literally the exact same dipshits who got us into Iraq. Almost 20 years ago.

[centrarchus]

1. Not so sure.

The footage of the Iranian patrol boat trying to remove an unexploded mine on one of the tankers is odd. Were they trying to remove evidence or doing a good deed? I doubt the latter. Why endanger your personnel? Food for thought.

[sarabelle]

3. How do you know they didn't find it and were trying to remove it to save lives??

There is absolutely more to this story than we are being told. Go to other than US news sites.

[lark]

4. Are "they" capable of faking video evidence - why sure they are and would do it in a heartbeat.

I don't believe anything released by drumpf's administration of traitors, grifters, liars and snakes.

Edit - fixed typo

[jpak]

6. I saw the video and didn't see any limpet mine.

The ship's operator said they were hit by a "flying object" - not a mine.

[Cosmocat]

23. Mines ... WELL above the water line

That alone should ring the bullshit meter.

They can be used "manually" so to speak, but mines are meant to put a hole in at or below the water line ...

[olegramps]

40. My first thought was is this a scam by the master scamer.

I remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident that took us into war in Vietnam in which it was made to appear that they provoked the incident. Why would Iran intentionally provoke the international world? These ships are not registered in the United States. One is of Japanese registry. I don't know if it is staged, however, I do know that Bolton and his PNAC henchmen are determined to strike Iran. This administration has done everything to provoke them including the pulling out of the Iran nuclear treaty, imposing new trade restrictions and going as far as attempting to prevent our allies who still recognize the treaty from doing any business with Iran. How can anyone believe a single word that comes out of this pathological liar's mouth.

The attack could also be by Iranians acting on their own and driven by what they consider unjust treatment by the Trump administration. There certainly isn't a lack of hatred of the United States throughout the region. Also remember the absolute unsubstantiated claims made by Bush and Cheney who assured us that Iraq had nuclear weapons and was intent on giving them to terrorists. Absolute lies.

[beachbum bob]

2. neither do I, too damn convenient.

why would Iran even consider such an act? No sense on their side at all but we know why Trump would have it done

[sarabelle]

5. When and if the truth comes out, we will not know about it. Think Venezuela.

Our media also does a piss poor job on follow-up of most of the stories by this administration.

[Wounded Bear]

7. I'm with you on that one...

I certainly don't trust this admin, and while I tend to give the media the benefit of the doubt they love a good war too much.

[mitch96]

8. Shades of the Tonkin Gulf affair...

False flag operation to escalate the situation to a shooting war...
Every president needs his war.....
m

[broiles]

33. Fool me once, you can't fool me again, maybe.

[Caliman73]

36. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was not a false flag.

A false flag operation is an operation carried out by one party to deceive and place blame on another party. The incident in the Gulf of Tonkin (at least the August 2nd incident) actually happened. North Vietnamese patrol boats actually did approach a US warship. What happened is that the Government lied about the incident. The US said that the North Vietnamese boats attacked the ship, but the records show that the US ship fired warning shots first and the NV boats responded in kind. The report from August 4 is a little more akin to a false flag because the Navy reported a second attack and all records from the US and other parties in the vicinity show no activity from that day. That was made up.

The Reichstag Fire was an actual historical false flag operation. The Nazis, or people recruited by the Nazis set the fire, then blamed it on their political opposition to promote negative sentiment toward the opposition. 911 "truthers" think that it was a false flag instigated by our government and Israel to instigate the GWOT. Alex Jones thinks that Sandy Hook was a false flag where "crisis actors" faked the shooting to allow the government to take away freedoms.

False flag operations definitely happen, but we have to be careful in jumping to conclusions before the evidence is presented.

[mitch96]

45. Got it, tnx................ nt

[Doodley]

9. Does it make sense to load up a little boat with people to remove a mine?

[harumph]

10. I disagree respectfully.

The released video clearly shows (Iran) removing one of the limpets. They wouldn't even be lending
a hand unless to halt a situation that was quickly spiraling out of control. This type of brinkmanship
is common with a regime that sends fast boats out to harass ships routinely.
They pushed it a bit too far. The not so subtle message is that they could block the
Straits of Hormuz EVEN by "accident" by "fucking up" if they want and throttle oil shipments.
Dangerous game - but the regime is desperate. Plausible deniability.

They're genuine fools who want us to believe they're also crazy fuckwits.

That said, I do not support military intervention - we need real diplomacy to dial this situation back ASAP. However, at
present, we have a worthless administration and a depleted state department.

I understand your hesitancy to disbelieve. It becomes an automatic reaction to
such a mendacious presidency, which I often share.
The Navy doesn't really want to get into a pissing match in the Gulf.

[Recursion]

12. What about the video "Clearly shows Iran"?

Why do you think those are Iranian boats?

[harumph]

13. You're kidding right?

[Recursion]

18. No, I'm not. Why do you think those are Iranian boats?

Are you familiar with the Iranian navy and its fleet? Those aren't Parvins, Kaivans, or Bavars. What kind of fast-attack vessel is that, and how many of them does Iran own?

[harumph]

17. You are aware that this type of behavior is just a tick up from SOP for Iran?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/iranian-boats-approach-navy-ship-persian-gulf-while-u-s-n924876

The Iranians play "chicken" all the time. It's the psychology of threat without taking
direct action.

As I've said, I do not support military intervention...and it was a mistake to trash the nuke prolif agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

[Recursion]

16. The tanker owner also disagrees

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oil-tanker-attacks-gulf-of-oman-tanker-owner-seems-to-dispute-us-account-of-gulf-of-oman-attack-today-2019-06-14/

[lame54]

25. You are a Bolton/Pompeo sucker...

If there are a lot more like you out there - we are going to war

[spanone]

26. We have NO reason to believe this administration. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. NADA.

Good try, though

[neohippie]

41. There was also video of an Iranian fire boat much earlier

If Iran was wanting to covertly remove an unexploded mine, why wouldn't they have used the cover of the fire boat putting out the fire to do that?

The US says that video was from 4:10pm yesterday, why is the video supposedly taken in broad daylight so bad?

Why would Iran remove the mine in the afternoon, when they could have waited for the cover of darkness?

Also why wouldn't there be others earlier once the crew of these boats were removed safely be there on site to investigate the boat, look for mines like this?

What does the captain and crew of the ship say happened. Wouldn't there be some team to investigate the damage done, and to see if the ship was at risk of further damage, to make a decision about the condition of the boat, if if was going to sink etc....


Why wouldn't we wait for some kind of forensic investigation to shows us that the damage on the boat was consistent with the damage of this particular mine, and show us things like forensic tests of the explosive residue and remnants from the exploded device to confirm all of this before we are expected to be a rush to judgement?

Also the explanation from Pompeo is that the Iranian boat was there to remove evidence of their mine, but couldn't another reasonable explanation be that they were there to gather evidence that might prove it was not their mine? How do they reach this conclusion out of all other possible conclusions?

How is it that Trump can't accept the conclusions from all 17 US intelligence agencies that Russia interfered with our 2016 election to help him win, as well as Pompeo can't believe US intelligence showing that MBS likely had large role in Khashoggi's murder but they both instantly believe this intelligence?

I'm not saying that this isn't what happened, but why should we not wait for some more definitive proof? Or consider all possibilities

[greatauntoftriplets]

11. This story doesn't pass the smell test.

I'm very skeptical. Of course, I remember the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

[CentralMass]

14. This administration never tells the truth.

[harumph]

19. This administration isn't monolithic.

There is no upside for Trump in this. His agenda stops at his nose. He's completely out of
depth on this. Don't think that the Iranians don't sense our political weakness and
administrative incompetence. If I were them, I might have done the same thing. Make
the US think twice about dicking with them - because OOOOOPS - shit happens!

[Caliman73]

39. He certainly isn't a mastermind.

The real danger lies in his incompetence and the idiocy of his closer advisers. Pompeo is a jackass, and we know that Bolton wants. When we need people like Stevenson, Albright, or even Hillary Clinton we have these complete wastes managing our foreign affairs. Trump with his fake bravado is likely to escalate the situation rather than dial it back as it should be. Plus you have Netanyahu likely salivating over the possibility of the US fighting Iran finally.

I agree that Iran is not a good faith actor in the region. They certainly have their interests and have used dirty tactics to push them. However, the answer is diplomacy, which is not a skill this administration possesses anywhere it counts.

[spanone]

15. I doubt the world is buying it.

[harumph]

20. The article you site also specifies:

"Iran has previously used mines against oil tankers in 1987 and 1988 in the "Tanker War," when the U.S. Navy escorted ships through the region."

Yes - if this admin says "water is wet" some would dispute (and I understand that).

This whole shitfest could have been avoided by diplomacy.

[safeinOhio]

34. But Iran denies it.

Very strongly. Isn’t that enough for trump?

[Pompoy]

21. General McCaffrey says there is no doubt in his mind it was the Iranians.

I thought that the Trump Administration was pushing for this, so was suspicious about the attacks. But watched the 11th hour last night, and the General was sure that it was the Revolutionary Guard going rogue a little bit, to threaten that they can shut down the waterway to tankers. THey are getting desperate.
https://www.msnbc.com/11th-hour-with-brian-williams

[2naSalit]

22. I agree.

The admin in OUR COUNTRY is using the services of Betsy's brother is what I think happened.

[B Stieg]

24. Gulf of Tonkin Incident All Over Again

Why do Conservatives go back to the same playbook, time and time again?
It's because they can't think of anything new.

[FiveGoodMen]

31. "It's because they can't think of anything new."

Why should they? The same shit keeps working over and over again.

[B Stieg]

38. I was talking about policy...

not the fact that they cheat over and over again (McConnell, gerrymandering, etc.)

[FiveGoodMen]

43. But I was talking about how nothing new is needed if what you've already got works

And, for them, the cheating -- and the bad policies -- all work.

[safeinOhio]

35. Remember the Maine. This shit goes way back.

Iran remembers installing the Shah.

[GoCubsGo]

28. Yep. They've been itching for a war with Iran from Day One.

They haven't been able to find a legitimate excuse, so now they're trying to create one. It's pretty obvious that they're trying to gin up their own version of the Gliewicz Incident. Unfortunately, enough people are falling for it that they'll probably get away with it.

[Historic NY]

29. Ask yourself, who benefits from stoking a conflict in the Gulf?

The area is loaded with suspects.

[SCVDem]

30. Why would EOD,

explosive ordnance disposal, take a large group to remove an explosive device?

I could see a SEAL team placing high mines above the water line. Minimal damage, maximum propaganda.

[TheBlackAdder]

32. Especially if the explosion is above the waterline.

[riversedge]

37. CBS: Tanker owner seems to dispute U.S. account of Gulf of Oman attack

Why does it always take lies to get us into a war (like with Iraq!!)


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oil-tanker-attacks-gulf-of-oman-tanker-owner-seems-to-dispute-us-account-of-gulf-of-oman-attack-today-2019-06-14/



Tanker owner seems to dispute U.S. account of Gulf of Oman attack

Updated on: June 14, 2019 / 7:07 AM / CBS/AP

The Japanese owner of the Kokuka Courageous, one of two oil tankers targeted near the Strait of Hormuz, said Friday that sailors on board saw "flying objects" just before it was hit, suggesting the vessel wasn't damaged by mines.

That account contradicts what the U.S. military said as it released a video Friday it said shows Iranian forces removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the two ships that were hit.

The Japanese tanker was attacked twice Thursday, damaging the vessel and forcing all 21 crew members to evacuate.

Company president Yutaka Katada said Friday he believes the flying objects seen by the sailors could have been bullets. He denied any possibility of mines or torpedoes because the damage was above the ship's waterline. He called reports of a mine attack "false."

Katada said the crew members also spotted an Iranian naval ship nearby, but didn't specify whether that was before or after the attacks..........................................

[CaptainTruth]

42. Bolton & the rest of the PNAC told us in 2000 they wanted to overthrow Iraq & Iran.

All part of the stated PNAC goal to "transform the Middle East."

"PNAC's policy document, "Rebuilding America's Defences," openly advocated for total global military domination."

Sadly, no one seemed to be paying attention when they filled the GW Bush administration & did exactly what they said they wanted to do years earlier.

Bolton is picking up exactly where they left off under Bush. This is why I cringed when Trump brought Bolton in. Bolton hasn't given up on the PNAC agenda, he's determined to finish what they started, which means overthrowing Iran.

[link:https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Project_for_the_New_American_Century|

[raccoon]

44. Especially since the Dotard is already crowing that Iran did it.

When Dotard says something, I believe the opposite.