Is Refusing to Pursue Impeachment a form of Respect for the People or Contempt for the People?

[kennetha]

What is behind the thought, prevalent in some corners of the Democratic Party, that you cannot win an election by standing up for the rule of law and the constitutional order, that you had best focus on healthcare, infrastructure, income inequality, since these are the things that people really care about, that hit them where they live?

Part of me thinks that this is just a false dichotomy. And it does seem at least partly that. Surely there is no in principle conflict between promoting a particular policy agenda and standing up for the rule of law. Indeed the two would seem to dovetail quite nicely.

But I think something deeper is going on. I think those who think this way often claim to be respecting the will of the people. But I think that they are actually expressing their deep and utter contempt for the people, indeed for the Republic itself.

It is as if they think that the people are children who must be pandered to and manipulated and cannot be trusted to engage in adult conversations. And the Republic, and the principles on which it is constructed, is mostly a convenient fiction to be trotted out on holidays and such. Otherwise, better not to mention it, except when it’s politically convenient to do so.

Thus dies the Republic no matter who wins an election. Winning an election is small compensation for losing the Republic, I think.

[Irishxs]

1. I think they're protecting their own a**.

[ehrnst]

21. Who is? (nt)

[uponit7771]

2. pursue impeachment but don't have to do it right now

[empedocles]

5. ' . . . don't have to do it right now' - given the political realities of failure more likely -

- now.

[uponit7771]

9. Timing, is everything, need this dragged out during the election

[wryter2000]

15. Exactly n/t

[BlueWI]

3. I don't know.

There's honest disagreement among Democrats on whether the case for impeachment is strong enough, supported widely enough, or politically acceptable enough.

I do agree that not to impeach when the potentially criminal actions are so widely reported on sets a very unfortunate example for future situations. It also heightens the stakes and the risk of the 2020 elections. Sure, impeachment is risky, but not impeaching may be more risky. Can't say that I prefer the non-impeachment route, especially since the non-impeachment course has a perception of being low risk. I guess we'll see...

[uponit7771]

10. I don't think they're disagreeing on the law they're disagreeing on the political ramifications

[BlueWI]

12. I think that's true in most cases

but some seem to feel that the legal case for impeachment isn't airtight.

It seems airtight to me, so I don't agree with that objection.

[uponit7771]

13. Same here, he's already an un-indicted co-conspirator

[wasupaloopa]

4. Neither. The republic will out last trump.

[Brawndo]

6. Like the Roman Republic outlasted Caesar?

History rhymes, don't underestimate what an enemy is capable of.

[uponit7771]

11. +1, I'm sure they didn't think perpetual kinds were in thier future

[kentuck]

7. Neither.

Something else.

[MasterofBiscuits]

8. Millions of Americans have to do more than one thing at a time in the workplace on a daily basis

just saying.

[wryter2000]

14. Are six investigations that may lead to impeachment

Failing to stand up for the rule of law?

Our Dems in Congress are working on issues that matter to the people and at the same time investigating Trump’s crimes.

Only on DU are Dems “doing nothing” and “letting Trump get away with it.”

[StarfishSaver]

17. +1000

And only on DU (and a few other places) are Democrats who honestly believe that a different strategy is the best way to achieve the common goal castigated day and night as weak, cowardly and "failure to stand up for the rule of law."

[wryter2000]

18. One of my favorites

We’re afraid of impeachment

[StarfishSaver]

19. And if someone doesn't want to impeach first thing tomorrow morning, they don't ever want to impeach

because they think that Trump hasn't done anything wrong.

And, of course, they hate the republic and want it to die.

[Hoyt]

16. If 60% or so supported Impeachment, they would. But think it's less than that.

[ecstatic]

20. I see holding trump accountable as just as important, if not more,

important. Would we all be happy with medicare in a fascist dictatorship led by trump? I don't think so. Protecting our country and constitution is important. Period.

[brooklynite]

22. Nancy Pelosi treats the public with contempt? Got it.

[kennetha]

23. Not exactly but Pelosi. But the skittish Caucus

Who fear the wrath of The marginal swing voter.

[fescuerescue]

24. It's neither

It's a political calculation. Maybe the wrong one. Maybe the right one.

Congress is there to serve the people and they can't do it if they aren't elected.

I don't agree with the seemingly conclusion that refusing to impeach will hurt the Democrats more than the Republicans, but it does seem to be conclusion that many have reached.

[fescuerescue]

25. They probably worked retail in their youth

"It is as if they think that the people are children who must be pandered to and manipulated and cannot be trusted to engage in adult conversations."

[malaise]

26. The Republic belongs to the people

They must push for impeachment.

[qazplm135]

27. or they just disagree

on the right path forward?

Not sure why it can't be as simple as that, but instead require something more nefarious.

[Thomas Hurt]

28. Got to have the votes and I am not aware that Pelosi has the votes for a floor vote.

[kennetha]

29. But why doesn't she have the votes

that's the question ... what is going on with democrats who say, "Don't you dare impeach Trump?" Inquiring minds want to know.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

30. I'm sure the crux of it are the Democrats in Republican/marginal Democratic districts

fearing blowback from the Trump voters. But they're going to hate/not vote for the Democrats no matter what. Yes, attempting to impeach Trump will likely "energize" them, but Trump trumping energizes them anyway and I fear that not doing anything will energize them more and reinforce their belief that the Mueller investigation was a sham and that Trump was exonerated anyway. And if the argument is that impeachment is unpopular, will refusing to do it move the needle at all? Will months of fighting with Trump over subpoenas and evidence move the needle towards impeachment?

[customerserviceguy]

31. If the vote count in the House

doesn't add up to a majority for impeachment, and a vote is held anyway, it gives Trump something to really crow about. Taking that away from him is concern for the country.

[kennetha]

32. Well right.

But I am trying to figure out why some Democrats are opposed to impeachment. Obviously it’s only because they think it’s a political loser. But what is the basis of that thinking?

[customerserviceguy]

33. The ones primarily in opposition

to impeachment are from the seats flipped from R to D in last year's election. The GOP'ers who ran against them charged that they would be Nancy Pelosi's rubber stamp. They countered with ads about how they wanted to avoid playing politics, and just get needed legislation passed for the country.

Now, some of them went out on a limb to support her for the Speakership, and they're going to have to deal with that next year, and while Trump is on the ballot. Since nobody's betting that the Senate will convict, Trump WILL be on that ballot, turning out his base in places that voted GOP in 2016. Having a failed impeachment drama will make it extremely difficult to hold those seats.

If it looks like the Democratic nominee is very likely to win the 2020 election, the voters who flipped from red to blue might well decide to flip back again as a check on a Democratic president. Besides, most of them were in suburban districts that took the biggest hit from the $10K limit on deduction of state and local taxes, and they wanted to punish Trump. If it looks like he's not going to win re-election, then the need to punish is muted.

[ananda]

35. Sounds like "respect" for bully propaganda and dictatorship.

For "respect" I really mean fear.