Michael Jackson died on this day

[malaise]

10 years ago - time flies. I remember that day on DU

Dedicated to the Con

[True Dough]

1. How do people here feel about Michael Jackson?

Does everyone accept that he was a pedophile? I think the evidence is very strong. It makes me lose respect for him as a human being.

Cannot deny that he was a talented musical artist, however. I don't listen to his songs often (I did as a kid) but if it comes on the radio I don't change stations.

[underpants]

3. Loved much of his music but that didn't surprise me at all

It’s not because of the law suits I can just tell you that he set off my radar a long time ago. I actually surprised that anyone is surprised at what has come to light recently.

[malaise]

5. I celebrate his music

Nothing else

[democratisphere]

6. Agree with you completely.

Musical and entertainment genius.

[Corgigal]

8. That's it.

Still a bit of betrayal, but that's on me. Working through it.

[Heartstrings]

54. Nail on the head, malaise....

Only the music......

[Initech]

9. I don't really know.

Leaving Neverland was a major eye-opener into who Michael Jackson was as a person. But you can't deny how great his music is. I'll still listen to his music and that's about it.

[CatWoman]

12. Leaving Neverland was discredited and removed by HBO

[Initech]

13. Oh really? I did not know that.

I must have missed that happening.

[BannonsLiver]

17. That's absolutely not true

I just pulled it up on my HBO app. It was never removed. That lie got started with Jackson super fans who tried to discredit the film.

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27124618/leaving-neverland-hbo-documentary-pulled-denied/

[Floyd R. Turbo]

21. As I recall, there was some controversy over the timeline regarding the abuse of one of the accusers

HBO did not pull program however.

[BannonsLiver]

19. Really?

That’s super interesting because I’m watching it right now...on HBO.

[Polybius]

57. Please self-delete

Because that's not true at all.

[Maru Kitteh]

60. Not true.

https://www.okayplayer.com/culture/is-hbo-removing-michael-jackson-doc-leaving-neverland.html

[UniteFightBack]

44. Can you listen to Ted Nugent? nt

[Initech]

50. Um....

[jcgoldie]

55. Nailed it.

[Goodheart]

15. Really the most tragic story in entertainment history

He was all that... The greatest performer in the history of the world.

And then his self-mutilation. And then the child abuse allegations (which I believe true)...

He was as sick as he was famous.

[RobinA]

22. Agree

A tragedy on many fronts, beginning with his being a front man for a band at the tender age of...what? Too young. Seemingly no adults in the room and no one around him who wasn't making money off him. Abused, abuser, very sad for all involved. How not to raise a child. Or, how to raise a emotionally damaged child who will turn into an even more damaged adult. The man had to take anesthesia to get away from himself!

I love his music and find that, although he will be disappeared (I think it's already happening), his music really transcends time and generation.

[redstateblues]

59. Great summation of a very tortured soul

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. He always creeped me out, even back at the height of his popularity in the 80s.

Musically, I think his singing was rather overrated; however, I will say he was one of the most talented dancers in the history of the industry.

I do think there is a lot of truth to the allegations, unfortunately.

[kwassa]

49. Me, too.

[sarisataka]

25. I found it interesting

How his death gave him radio redemption.

Prior to his death, I rarely heard one of his songs on the radio. After his death it was the 1980s all over again and he still is in regular rotation.

It is a tragic story all around. I still however question those parents who allowed their children to have sleepovers even while there were rumors about what was going on.

[mulsh]

38. I loved his talent and tried to ignore the PR BS as much as possible, This Is It and Michael Jackon'

Journey From Motown to Off The Wall are two great films that reveal the professional musician and I think, real Michael Jackson. Both have extensive interviews with artists who worked with MJ and This Is It shows the work he put into that last tour that never happened.

I've watched the Neverland documentaries too and don't doubt he was deeply troubled. I believe the kids, I can't believe their parents threw them at MJ or no one in his circle could tell him what he was doing was wrong. But as someone who had to paraprase Eddie Murphy about celebrity; "pussy thrown at him" from about age five, I also felt it was impossible for MJ to end up anything but messed up. Imagine how you would have handled aggressive groupies and fans hounding you starting at a very young age.

I urge people to watch both This Is It and Michael Jackson's Journey From Motown To Off The Wall and get a glimpse of the person behind the hype.

[BeyondGeography]

40. Not good at all

eom

[UniteFightBack]

43. Not that I was every crazy for him after "Off the Wall" but his legacy in my opinion is ruined and

should be shattered. He is disgusting.

[RhodeIslandOne]

47. There's a weird cult on Twitter that thinks he was completely innocent

And condemns anyone who thinks otherwise.

[Polybius]

56. I won't even listen to his music anymore

A shame, he was an immense talent.

[AlexSFCA]

58. just the music

there are so many musicians involved in his music that it would be unfair to them to reject his music outright due to accusations of child molestation. His personal life was very creepy and he never liked talking about it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. Phenomenally gifted dancer and performer; vastly overrated as a musical talent

An awful lot of Jackson's "musical brilliance" was Quincy Jones' production.

Also a profounndly broken human being who almost certainly abused children.

[ellie]

2. So did Farrah Fawcett

if I recall correctly. I just checked: yes, she did.

[malaise]

4. Did not remember

Thanks

[Dave Starsky]

10. Poor Farrah died on the same day.

Frankly, I'm more sad about her passing than about Michael Jackson.

I knew someone who was an event planner in Hollywood. She said Farrah Fawcett was the nicest celebrity she ever worked with.

[Ilsa]

23. Her passing occurred earlier in the day, IIRC,

and was announced first. Then the tv headlines about MJ being rushed to an ER hit, and that was the last we heard about FF.

[Codeine]

28. As evidence of this

I can honestly say I had no idea she had died. Weird.

[Bengus81]

70. Yep,remember them both passing..........

Working in a new home on that day when her passing was announced then it seemed like five minutes later it was Jackson. Mind blowing for two celebs to pass on the same day and fairly close in time.

Honestly,I thought it had been more than ten years.

[Greybnk48]

7. I loved his music and dancing/entertaining.

Sadly, his life in many ways was tragic (abusive money grubbing father, child labor, etc.). The pedophilia came as no surprise to anyone. He was so screwed up, he acted and talked like a 10 year old.

So damn sad that such a talented, dynamic entertainer ended where he did.

[Joe941]

36. Are you talking about MJ or tRump?

[RussellCattle]

11. For me, there is very little music that is "timeless". I get tired of listening...

....to any music after a while. I'm always looking for something new, finding it and then moving on after a month or two. I got tired of Michael Jackson's music a long time ago and was never a great fan. The thing that I really didn't like about him was his insufferable need for attention, his constant efforts to be in the public eye. Celebrity is one thing, but the strange persona that he constantly inflicted on the public was really tiresome.

This is my opinion. Please don't attack me or my opinion. You can keep yours and I'd like to keep mine.

[malaise]

14. You could have written that for

Don the Racist Con

[RobinA]

24. Don't Disagree

with you about his attention seeking, but growing up the way he did with the role he had in his family and in show business, it could hardly have been any other way. He learned it early and to him it was probably the only way he ever knew to be. It got weirder the older he got, but that's the way things tend to go. He was richly rewarded with treasure and what passed for "love" in his screwed up world. He seems to have killed himself nightly to get away from it until he finally killed himself for real.

[Goodheart]

31. Dude, New Order is timeless!

[SMC22307]

42. I especially love that "Blue Monday" has over 130,000,000 views...

the song I did high-impact aerobics to back in the day (1985!).

[RhodeIslandOne]

48. I thought he was weird and a pedophile

But for the most part he was actually fairly reclusive for a good amount of time. When he did appear, it was usually something odd and the media played it endlessly.

[panader0]

16. Still practicing my moonwalk.

[malaise]

20. You too

Ha

[RobinA]

26. I Remember It Well

Heard it on the news at the fitness center that he had been taken to the hospital. Somehow I knew at the time that this was it. It was funny, because normally I tend to think the worst will not happen, usually it doesn't, but with him his extremism just made me think that if he had gone too far it would be the big Too Far.

[Leith]

27. It kinda slammed me for another reason

He was about 3 weeks older than me. I grew up listening to his music knowing that he was my age. At age 50, I was feeling just fine so hearing that he died struck me as strange.

[malaise]

68. Many performers use uppers and downers to keep going

50 is young to die for real

[NewDayOranges]

29. A great singer, dancer and overall entertainer...

Left behind a horrible history of child sexual abuse.

I still enjoy his music, tho!

[ADX]

30. The man was found not guilty in a court of law...

...and at least one of the two "Leaving Neverland" accusers previously testified in court under oath that MJ never sexually abused him.

I don't know if he did anything or not but I do know that it hasn't been proven to my satisfaction so I have no problem whatsoever spinning my Jackson 5/MJ LPs.

Rest in peace, Michael...

[lunamagica]

33. So was OJ

[ADX]

37. So what?

Under the circumstances, the OJ verdict was the correct verdict, as was Casey Anthony's and Michael Jackson's because 12 people unanimously found that the prosecution failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[lunamagica]

39. So what? A not guilty veredict doesn't equal innocence

[ADX]

41. Um, I don't recall saying that it did...

...but a "not guilty" verdict means that 12 people listened to all of the evidence presented at trial and all 12 made a unanimous determination that the burden of proof had not been met.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion but that's all it is - your opinion, not a fact. You don't get to adjudicate someone "guilty" who has been deemed otherwise...

[lunamagica]

64. Yes I do. The evidence is overwhelming, and I'm not going to bury my head in the sand

because he was a celebrity:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12220221

[ADX]

71. Think whatever you want to, sport...

...you're merely expressing your opinion, you 're not proving anything.

Read post #65 in this thread and then get back to me...

[lunamagica]

74. I see you completely ignored the link I provided

But you know what? If you want to believe a man sharing his bed with boys is healthy, go ahead...I mean, he was a celebrity, so it was OK

[ADX]

75. Celebrity's got nothing to do with it, I don't give the slightest fuck about "celebrity"...

...As for the link you provided, I checked it out and it's nothing I haven't heard before; I remain unconvinced, as is my right to do so...

[Niagara]

65. The reason why MJ was found not guilty by all 12 jurors was because

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2019, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

the D.A., Tom Sneddon got caught falsifying evidence against MJ during the trial and it's on the record. People who knew Sneddon said that he belonged in jail.


The mother of the alleged 2nd victim, Janet Arvizo, has a long history of welfare fraud and several attempts of trying to hustle money from celebrities. She also won a $75,000 settlement from J.C. Penny's after being caught shoplifting. She claimed that security roughed her up. She was also caught in lies during the trial.

I'm just going to mention the 1st family that accused him of this briefly. The boys father, Evan Chandler had money problems and was going around bragging about he was going to take Michael to the cleaners. Carrie Fischer even mentioned this scumbag in her book "Shockaholic."


Michael was also analyzed by psychologist Dr. Stanley J. Katz, who was assigned to the case and found that he didn't fit the profile of a pedophile.


And this website mjfacts that others are pointing out to you, used to be called wackofacts, a trash news website that only goes after one alleged pedophile.

I wanted to tell you this so that you would have the facts to stand by your belief that MJ is/was not guilty.

[ADX]

72. I appreciate the assist, my friend...

...I was aware of all this info but was too lazy to type it up.

Seriously, thanks again...

[Niagara]

76. You're welcome, ADX

[lunamagica]

73. he was found "not guilty". Not the same thing as being found 'Innocent"

ETA:

Guilty or not guilty. In the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. In the USA court of law the verdict is “guilty” or “not guilty” instead of “guilty” or “innocent.” Not guilty does not mean innocent. But, are the acquitted innocent?


"A not guilty verdict says something definitive about the evidence that the state introduced: it was insufficient to eliminate all reasonable doubt about guilt from the minds of the jurors. But acquittals do not answer, nor even address, the question of whether defendants are factually innocent. All we know is that the juries were not persuaded that the defendants committed the crimes charged.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12220221

[Niagara]

77. Thank you for the correct court trial terminology

I fixed it.

[lunamagica]

78. You are welcome

[not_the_one]

32. some great dance tunes, but the rest...

he had a place in cultural history... both good and bad

Jackson Five, for those big on pre-pubescent pop

Thriller had a few great songs

Some great dance floor hits, guaranteed to fill any dance floor. (Did he just write lyrics, or did he also write the music? I don't believe he played any instruments... After all, it was the music, not the lyrics that filled the dance floors...))

Just when gangs were beginning to get a deservedly bad rap, he singlehandedly made them cool again by hiring real gang members to dance behind him for BAD, his major effort to rehabilitate his less than masculine image, while SIMULTANEOUSLY making it super cool for young black men to grab their crotch in public...

And then, upon his death, there seemed to be a blanket amnesia that affected so many, since overnight he went from a former has-been embarrassment, who had turned himself into a freak, with almost a total rejection by the black community, into the best musician in history.

Like I said, both good and bad.

edited for spelling

[BeyondGeography]

53. Listening to young Michael sing I Want You Back eg

What a talent. Natural ability, yes, but also great respect for the craft. He had done his homework. He truly loved the vocal art.

And then it went utterly wrong. I think that’s why I mostly enjoy the early stuff.

[lunamagica]

34. He creeped me out even before the alegations. that whole "Peter Pan" image screamed

pedophile to me. There was nothing healthy about a grown man inviting boys to sleepovers, and I couldn't believe this was accepted just because he was a celebrity

[maxsolomon]

35. A tragic example of the cycle of abuse.

Jackson, so blindingly talented as a child, but abused by both his domineering father and his Jehovah's Witness faith (not unlike Prince), could never be free to become the gay man he obviously was.

When you suppress your inner nature, it comes out twisted. His inherent self-loathing was expressed in his surgeries; his desire for men twisted into self-deluding pedophilia. His "children"? Transparent PR stunts. He named a child Blanket. He was so spaced out on drugs he nearly dropped one out a window.

His death, the sad death of a drug addict, was an ignominious footnote that preserved his reputation in amber.

Most of his music was and is over-rated. Separate from the videos, what stands up? Off The Wall, the only mature album made before his superstardom.

What could have been had he been able to be himself, freed from those chains? A better artist, no doubt. A happier human, I'd hope.

[smirkymonkey]

61. +1000

[Kaleva]

45. I never really got into MJ as a musician or entertainer so his passing meant nothing to me.

[Raine]

46. I remember that day, I was at my cousin's

reception following his funeral, those two things will always be linked in my mind.

[kwassa]

51. He was too pop for me.

I like my R&B funkier. I also like men who sing in a lower register.

I was a fan of Guy at the time. I liked Prince much, much more. I really like the earlier generation of funksters like Pfunk, Kool and the Gang and of course the master James Brown.

I watched a video of Jackie Wilson a few years ago and thought, oh, so that's where Michael Jackson got those moves. When I watch Jackson, I'm seeing where he lifted many things from others. The moonwalk goes back to the 40s, for instance.

I guess that I am saying that Jackson is derivative, and sold many older R&B in a more pop fashion to a white audience. The few things I like are from the Off the Wall album.

[YOHABLO]

52. I think he had a very troubled and emotionally painful life as so many very talented people do.

[malaise]

69. This is the absolute truth

Sometimes I wonder about the connections between troubled and painful lives and unbelievable talent.

[John Fante]

62. Unless you can give me another

example of a grown-ass man who "shared his bed" with a procession of unrelated, underage boys and totally wasn't a child molester, it is the height of cognitive dissonance to say that Michael wasn't one either. That's a Soviet May Day-sized red flag right there.

https://www.mjfacts.com

If you still have doubts, browse through this website when you get a chance.

There's tons of useful info there, but the article on the items seized in the 1993 raid is bonkers. MJ has a photo of one of his special friends, fully nude! He was despicable.

[spanone]

63. Time truly does fly.

Thank for the memory...

[StarfishSaver]

67. It was heartbreaking

For so many black kids, especially black girls, Michael Jackson was more than just a performer. He helped us fit into the world. He changed the way we saw ourselves.

When I was growing up, all of the teen idols were white: The Beatles, The Monkees, Bobby Sherman, David Cassidy, etc. We black girls did the best we could with them, but we knew we weren't really connected to them, that our fantasies about them would never, could never come true.

But then came The Jackson 5. After so long having only straight-haired white teen idols to adore, little black girls had our very own teen idols who looked like the boys we knew with brown skin and great big kinky-haired afros, and whom we felt we really had a chance to marry when we grew up.

When their faces appeared in fan magazines, we were proud to buy them by the stack. When we wrote letters to them, were confident they really read them.

That was a bfd. That was long before he grew up into a strange man whose twisted, probably criminal behavior first made us cringe and then repulsed us, the man whose legacy will forever contain an asterisk and rightfully so. But no matter how much I condemn that behavior, it will never completely eradicate what he meant to me as a little girl.

[Hekate]

79. Immensely gifted. Emotionally broken. Yes I believe his accusers.

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2019, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

The circus took place in my County, and I question the decision to have the trial moved to a more rural area 70+ miles away -- I think the jury was beglamored by his charisma.

My son was living at Midland School, across a narrow country road from the Neverland entrance, when the 24/7 news frenzy hit. TV trucks, helicopters, extremely bright lights, all but the helicopters parked along the fence of the school. You can't actually see Neverland from the road, as it's tucked behind a hill, and Jackson was a reclusive neighbor.

My own memory is from later, during the trial. A certain child actor (by then he must have been 20; I don't keep up) had been dragged into it, and I recognized him sitting alone in a coffee shop. Very, very alone. Such a look on his face. At my end of the County we see celebrities from time to time walking about like normal people (Costco!) and we let them be. But I've never forgotten that face -- in my heart I said, "This is not your fault."

Because my own father was an abuser and it broke something in me to have my childhood love betrayed, it's been a long road for me to be able to say, "No man is all one thing."

So with Jackson. He is all these things at once. Immensely gifted. Broken. Abused child. Child abuser. Broken. Immensely gifted.

Oh, and one more thing: the cartoonist Darrin Bell (who writes the daily strip Candorville) did a weeklong tribute when Michael Jackson died. A midnight train takes him away. Lamont, the hero of the series, is along and talks to Jackson. I don't remember the dialog, only that a series of masks come off, until at the end in the very last panel, a young boy in an Afro disembarks to the afterlife. I cried and cried.

[malaise]

80. I hear you sis

Sadly victims often make others victims

[Catherine Vincent]

81. What can I say?

I miss him and I love him.

#MichaelJacksonInnocent