People are not leaving California because of High Taxes, it's High Cost of Living

[JI7]

People leave California because of the high cost of living and more specifically the cost of housing . If you are paying high taxes , the more you pay the more you make and you can afford to live here.

It's not taxes that are making it difficult to afford housing .

And things like the high costs of houses, high rents is because of capitalism in the state.

this is for the dumbass ignorant right wingers who spew socialism, communism, california is going down etc.

[stopbush]

1. We're renting a 4-bdrm house for $3200 a month in OC, and that's considered a deal.

[JI7]

3. have you given up on buying a house in california ?

[stopbush]

5. We owned a house in Fresno. Ended up selling it in a short sale

when we moved to SoCal - the house lost value when W was POTUS.

A 4-bdrm house in my neighborhood sells for $700,000+. No way I can come up with $70-140,000 for a downpayment, nor afford the monthly payments on a $600,000 mortgage.

[RHMerriman]

22. Where do you work?

If you can access the 57 Corridor, great buys in Pomona.

[stopbush]

50. We live 30 miles south of Pomona.

Out of work right now, but my last job was in Pasadena, so I was driving 50 miles each way 3-4 times a week.

[RHMerriman]

60. Pomona is undervalued generally, has some great neighborhoods, and is well placed to take

Pomona is undervalued generally, has some great neighborhoods, and is well placed to take advantage of the economic clusters in Pasadena, northern Orange County, and western Riverside/San Bernardino.

Something to consider.

[Iliyah]

2. Please be advised that people are still coming in.

California is almost at 40 million and it is not illegals.

[JI7]

4. yes, i'm referring more to those who leave for financial reasons and how the right wing make

ignorant comments about it. claiming it's because they are paying taxes.

also even with the issues with high cost of housing and other problems the opportunities are often still better in california than many other parts of the country/world.

[TheFarseer]

6. Brings to mind the old Yogi Berra quote

Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

[2naSalit]

7. Yup. See that spike for !990?

That's what drove me out, never looked back, don't regret it.

[rusty quoin]

25. I left in 1999. It was too expensive for a house. We went back east, though Southern California

is probably the best place in which we lived. I loved it there and so did my kids and wife.

[2naSalit]

43. I hated it...

lived in SD county three different times and spent three years trying to come up with enough $ just to get the hell out. Now, I won't go there without a round trip ticket, guaranteed way out. And most of my immediate family lives there. Costs too much, you spend your whole life working and pretending to relax if you get a couple hours of free time. I now live in a place where there's a tomorrow and it's okay, in most cases where if something didn't happen today, it can be handled tomorrow. I can live my life on those terms for as long as I have to be here on the planet.

[shanti]

56. This:

"Costs too much, you spend your whole life working and pretending to relax if you get a couple hours of free time."

That's exactly how it is here if you're middle class or lower. And it definitely takes two incomes to get by for a family. My son has a good job with the feds, yet has to work Uber. His wife also works FT. AND they have a kid still in preschool ($$$). They never have the time or money for a vacay. This is in northern San Diego County. Orange County is worse, which is where we're from originally.

I saw the handwriting on the wall years ago and moved to Nor Cal, where the cost of living was less then. However, home prices have really rocketed in Sac as people from the Bay Area have moved here in droves with money from the sale of their homes there. They have driven the cost way up . The good side is that my small duplex is worth 3 times what I paid for it in 1996. The bad side is that I can't afford to buy anywhere else in California now. I'd have to leave the state, and I won't do that as all of my kids live here. Also, I'm retired now and my needs are different. Many places would be cheaper, but access to a hospital is so important. I'd rather be in Oregon, but oh well

[dixiegrrrrl]

28. We could not afford to retire there, or anywhere on the West Coast

and that was in 2005.

Housing outside of the metropolitan areas of the South is dirt cheap. Works well for people who do not have a need for a busy social life.

[Jake Stern]

31. Just bought a half acre parcel near my family in Northern Mississippi

Compared to the cost of real estate in Denver it was a steal. What we paid for that land would cover about 2 months rent in a 1 bedroom apartment here.

Now just trying to figure out the money part of it to build a small house.

Love Denver and will miss it but it's absurdly expensive and I already ended up having to turn down a job offer in another state and vowed that I wouldn't again if another chance came along.

[dixiegrrrrl]

55. When we were in SF, planning on retiring..

about 2003...watching the housing bubble on a daily basis, our only option was the South, and because I had lived and worked down here, I knew the area. We have a lovely older home, for 1/4 of what it would cost any on either coast, in a small town, where 3 cars in a line is a traffic jam.

[Jake Stern]

59. Sounds like this little town

Memphis and it's amenities are only an hour away so it's not like being out in the Alaskan Bush.

[customerserviceguy]

8. Aren't high taxes

part of the high cost of living? High taxes get reflected in the purchase price of everything that gets taxed, or is sold by someone who has to make an honest profit after paying high taxes.

[JI7]

9. i wish i was paying the highest taxes in the state

[customerserviceguy]

12. If you live in a high tax state

you're paying them in the prices of most everything you buy.

A couple of years ago, I lived in the greater NYC area, and I was always fascinated how much cheaper restaurant meals were when I got about two hours away from the city.

[JI7]

13. there are a lot of cheap food places in california. that's true of the US as a whole

i don't buy organic . i actually don't buy much. you can easily get cheap clothes also .

busy , touristy type places will always cost more . that isn't because of taxes it's because of capitalism and how much more you can charge and still sell.

i have a small business in an area with tourists and i sell things for a lot more than people can buy in other areas of the city that aren't even far but they just aren't busy or touristy type areas .

[customerserviceguy]

14. I've only been to CA once

and that was just over two decades ago, but I do remember prices in the greater SF area being pretty high. And you have the highest gasoline/diesel taxes in the country, that affects the price of everything that was brought to you by truck.

Certainly, population density has an effect on the prices of real estate, which affects what businesses pay for rents, which needs to be reflected in the costs of the meals they sell. But high real estate taxes have that effect, as well.

[Iliyah]

10. It

could people don't mind helping each other.

Love trumps hate.

[customerserviceguy]

11. Marianne, is that you? n/t

[emmaverybo]

26. 😂 LOL

[Iliyah]

54. One of HRC's quotes

[barbtries]

15. i can't go home again.

it's the cost of housing. i moved to NC over 11 years ago as an economic refugee and here, I've improved my lifestyle tremendously. I even own a home here. but i remain homesick, and my granddaughter has grown up without me.

[leftieNanner]

16. I lived my whole life in the Bay Area

But we got tired of the noise and the traffic, and especially the entitled attitude of the people moving in to the area.

We moved up to Southern Oregon ten years ago and it was a great decision.

I miss many things about San Francisco, but not enough to consider moving back!

[marlakay]

35. We moved to Southern OR too from bay area

But moved to the mountains in WA first ten years until husband got tired of too much snow to deal with.

I find the taxes in OR are less no sales tax, and more income tax seems higher, but home prices much lower so affordable. And gas costs less.

[dvan]

17. Prop 13

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/08/california-to-vote-on-partial-repeal-of-sweeping-tax-law.html
Prop 13 capped property taxes at one percent of assessed value at time of acquisition, and limited upward reassessments of property values to 2 percent per year so long as the property didn’t change hands. Over time it has had a profound effect on the entire taxation system in California, and has produced wildly variable property taxes on similar properties, depending on how recently they were built or acquired.”
So if you’ve owned your property since 1979, your home value has only increased a maximum of 2% per year. If my math is correct, you could have bought a house for $200k in 1979 and it would have a value of about $433k and your taxes would only be $4,330 per year. Nice, huh? So theses fortunate people can either stay in their “$433k” home that is probably actually a million dollar home and pay ridiculously low taxes, or they can sell it for a million dollars and move to Texas. Notice the phrase in the prop’s language ... “as long as it doesn’t change hands”. So when the new owner buys the million dollar property, the value is now a million dollars.

[JI7]

19. prop 13 fucked up a lot of things in the state for sure

[BigmanPigman]

30. Sure did, like money for schools.

CA ranks 42 out of 50 states for funding per sudent.

[ArcticFox]

39. And changing hands as I understand it

Does not include children taking from parents. This keeps properties off the market when families realize the kids couldn't afford anything but to remain in their childhood home. Which further limits supply and further inflates prices. Which means even less sellers, and even higher prices, and on and on

[Wounded Bear]

45. Mostly for businesses, though...

use of shell corporations allow commercial property to change hands without 'really' changing hands, so many business properties are paying rates from 20 years ago or more.

[SoCalDem]

58. We bought in 82 for $82k..sold in 2016 for $315k

Our prop taxes were $1674 a yr at the max.. New owners prop tax is $3800

The tradeoff is that prop taxes for our "new" house in WA are $4474 a yr

pay me now/pay me later

[moondust]

18. Yep. Found that out in the 70s.

Moved around a lot back then. My rule of thumb from experience was that housing would cost me 3 times more in CA than the same unit would cost me in the most expensive housing market in any number of midwestern states.

[ripcord]

20. More people leaving LA and Orange counties than are moving in

https://www.google.com/amp/s/losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/06/26/census-data-shows-thousands-more-moving-out-of-la-oc-than-moving-in/amp/

[roamer65]

21. California IS the economic engine of the United States.

Would be interesting to see the GDP of CA, OR and WA together.

[former9thward]

61. It also has one of the the highest income inequality....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_coefficient

[lambchopp59]

23. Well, let me count the migrant workers:

In my department alone we currently have travelers from Texas, Illinois, Michigan, Georgia, Arizona and two from elsewhere in Cali. All with housing company paid. I was traveler originally at this job, but went permanent, but I'm basically native Californian anyway.
The Traveler from Texas is also taking the permanent position, and seeking to sink himself in debt for a house.
I wish I could come up with a clever equivalent to state the same as what New York City citizens say:
Why are we in New York? Just remove the N,E and Y from New York.
When conditions were terrible in my profession in the GWB economic crash years, No state except N.Y., Cali, and Maryland (Baltimore) had any job listings at all.
Now there are 1,249 Indeed.com listings in California.
Go Figure...

[KY_EnviroGuy]

24. Greed follows success and innovation and quickly gentrifies it.

Of what value is explosive success if we strip large areas of the U.S. of their native people, culture, environment and roots?.....
.

[rusty quoin]

27. Southern California and my life, my wife and my children's were probably the happiest

in our lives in Southern California.

You spent a great deal of your life outside. You couldn’t help but be tanned like my kids. And it was a casserole of inclusion. All the world was represented in that school they attended. The kid’s schools limited class size to 20.

There was before and after daycare...free... It was perfect. Things changed after we moved early 2000.

[BigmanPigman]

29. San Diego sucks! Traffic is really bad everywhere now too.

"San Diego is the ninth most expensive big city for renters, according to apartment listings site Zumper. The median rent for a one-bedroom apartment in San Diego is up to $1,820 a month — a substantial increase of 15.2% over the previous year."
https://www.policygenius.com/blog/americas-most-expensive-cities-how-to-save-on-rent-in-san-diego/

We pay a lot for good weather. Everything costs more but the salaries suck....at least for teachers anyway.

[2naSalit]

44. +1

Have four generations of family there, it's a tough place to make a living and have anything left after bills are paid. I was out there for thanks giving and I was suffering from claustrophobia in two days and I was on a ten day trip. I was so relieved to return to a place where I can go down the road a piece and know that there are not buildings, other people or roads or lights for miles.

[Raine]

32. I was born and lived all my life in Los Angeles but I would move out

in a second if it was possible for me to do it. It's becoming less and less livable for me, noise, traffic, overcrowding, greed, dirt, high taxes and high cost of everything. I'm really starting to hate this place more and more everyday.

[manicdem]

33. How to buiild more homes?

What makes it difficult to build more housing? If there is a shortage and rents and ownership costs so much, I figure it would be easy to sell plots of land and build homes.

[JI7]

34. it's the location itself that costs a lot. even a shitty house where it would be better

to tear it down and build something else would be very expensive .

[lunatica]

36. That's the reason I left

It’s too expensive. period. Housing is insane, but I chose to sell my condo and move to New Mexico where I was able to pay cash for a beautiful condo. With the money I made on the California I paid ALL my debts. Now I live on a pension and Social Security very easily because I don’t have to pay a mortgage, any car payments or any debts.

Had I stayed in California I wouldn’t be able to make ends meet. I miss it but I’m quite happy in New Mexico.

[procon]

37. Bought a 3BR, 1B house on 2 1/2 acres

in LA County for $11K in 73. Did a whole house reno in 2000 and Zillow lists in now for $285K. That's about average for houses out here in the desert. Crazy, right?

Compared to cities like Los Angeles, houses are a quarter of the price, but there's no reason houses should cost that much. This is a rural area and there are about 580 homes, a handful of rentals ($3200). There's nothing out here but a mom & pop grocery, feed store, hardware, restaurant, gas station, and a church, the volunteer fire station, community Center.

We have to commute long distances (100+ miles) to the city for jobs. Utilities are high and insurance is skyrocketing. Its almost a 40 mile round trip to the nearest town, similar rural areas in the General area are priced the same, so people must like something about little communities.

[mnhtnbb]

38. My husband and I left Santa Monica in 1988

and never looked back. At the time, we had a 2 year old and couldn't imagine sending him to public schools. We were both raised on excellent public schools. It would cost more than we could afford to send one or two kids to private schools in West Los Angeles.

My husband had bought his house in Rustic Canyon, 5 minutes from the beach, between Santa Monica and Pacific Palisades, for about $130,000. In the early '70's before I knew him. After we married we remodeled and added on to the house. In 1988 we sold the house for $800, 000. Zillow now assigns that house a value of $5.358 million.

No way could we ever have returned to that house--even when we first left--let alone now.

[a la izquierda]

40. I left LA to go to grad school in Oklahoma in 2004.

I had only lived in LA for 4 years, but I loved it. I now live in WV and abhor it here. Six years in and it's still not home. I wouldn’t move back to LA because even on a professor’s salary, I’d be living in my car.

[Captain Stern]

41. I think maybe a good portion of the people that leave are retirees.

I know the following is an anecdote, and not evidence.

A friend of mine worked in law enforcement in San Diego. We owned very similar houses (I'm in North Carolina).

My house is worth under 200,000.

When he retired, he sold his paid off house for almost 700,000.

He was able to move here, and buy a really nice place at the beach to retire in...and he still had money left over.

[DFW]

42. Reading all this makes me realize that California is like a foreign country to me by now

I have been there plenty of times, mostly for work-related visits, plus a few family/friends stopovers (such as California Peggy!), but usually only for short visits. A few years ago, when I had something to do in L.A., we did take three days in the Bay Area to visit a nephew and a friend in downtown San Francisco, but that was the most in the way of non-work visits in over 15 years. I know at least five countries in Europe better than I know California, including the one I live in (Germany).

Housing here in Germany is mostly expensive, though it gets far more reasonable if you want to move out to a rural area. Taxes are universally high (top bracket kicks in at about $90,000 gross salary!), and here they have more different taxes than I had ever heard of back home. I even got one notice to file to pay a "Gewerbesteuer." I had no clue what that was, so I called up the tax office, and got some nasty woman screaming at me that I hadn't filed my "Gewerbesteuer," and she was going to send a terror attack unit to audit my business turnover in Germany (I don't have any). Confused, I consulted a tax attorney. He explained what it was (a tax you owe on what you suppose your business turnover was estimated to be), and that I didn't owe any. He sent them a letter explaining that, and I never heard from that office again, so it must have been correct. A friend here, who does own a small business, told me he works for the German government until about October first. Starting then, he begins to work for himself for the rest of the year.

In one respect, Germany does seem to resemble California. It seems that people are constantly trying to move here as well as out of here. There is even a reality series on German TV called "Goodbye Deutschland" that follows real German families that leave Germany for elsewhere (far and near) for any number of reasons. From the sound if it, American TV could start a similar series about California, and never run out of material.

[aikoaiko]

46. Lots of good jobs in my field in CA (not even high tech) and I don't even consider them anymore.

Housing is crazy.

[Hotler]

47. They're moving to Colorado...

and they fucked it all up.

[BSdetect]

48. Property taxes in CA are killing first home buyers.

Our house has gone from $4700 per year to $6800 in 13 years. A place built in 1974.

Each year new bonds seem to be added.

The house needs some pretty major improvements such as a new roof.

Could sell it for $700000.

What has not increased is the palty homeowners exemption set at some measly amount pre 2005.

And now drump's killing the tax deduction for mortgage interest.

[ck4829]

49. K&R

[Yavin4]

51. This may not be an entirely bad thing. We need more Progressives moving to other states like TX

This is how you turn red states into blue.

[CountAllVotes]

52. 5th generation Californian here

and no, I am not about to move anywhere.

I own the small house I live in and have had the insight not to sell it and move elsewhere because, I California!!

[kimbutgar]

53. My husband's family all moved out of California to Arizona because it was too expensive

But they say if they could afford it would move back to California in a heartbeat.

I’m staying put in California.

[former9thward]

62. The people leaving are the ones paying the high taxes.

Just because they "can afford to live here" does not mean they are going to. They are leaving. And yes, some are leaving because of the cost of living.

Many people are moving from California to Texas

The cost of living, as well as high taxes and red tape, are precipitating the push.
Between 2007 and 2016 a net 1m American residents, or 2.5% of the state’s population, left California for another state. Texas was the most popular destination, attracting more than a quarter of them. More Americans have left California than moved there every year since 1990, though immigrants still arrive from abroad.

https://www.economist.com/special-report/2019/06/20/many-people-are-moving-from-california-to-texas