Fucking unbelievable. Folks, I think our democracy may be dead.

[triron]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/politics/census-question-trump-tweet/index.html

Link to tweet

[BKDem]

1. We are on the brink.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. No, it isn't. Read what the judge said. The injunction is still in effect.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6182647-Census-Hearing-Transcript-7-3.html

The DoJ was instructed to try to find a way to include the question while still complying with the Supreme Court's decision. The judge told them he wanted that answer by Friday.

[triron]

3. Whatever you say. I am tired of this shit.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. We're all tired of this shit, but that's what they want.

We can't give up now.

[bdamomma]

36. I don't understand

how there are some throwing up their hands saying if our ancestors did we would have no country, this POS will not WIN. Fuck that.

[forgotmylogin]

47. +1 (n/t)

[atreides1]

78. Thomas Paine quote

“THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated”


This country has too many summer soldiers and sunshine patriots...the Founders knew that it would take sacrifice to gain freedom...and they were willing to make that sacrifice, even it cost them their lives...modern Americans are nothing like those who stood up to the British...modern Americans are divided by ethnicity, religion, gender...modern Americans don't possess in their entire bodies, what the Founders had in their small finger...


As Benjamin Franklin said:
We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately..

The question we all need to ask ourselves is what are we willing to do???

[paleotn]

93. +1000

Never give up. Never stop. Ever. It's worth that much.

[Desert grandma]

95. Thank you.

These are indeed trying times. Thank you for the quote.

[paleotn]

94. Exactly.

[certainot]

99. 1500 radio stations have been calling for this census question for years and now

trump does it, largely because thinking americans keep ignoring talk radio

the gloom and doom is what they want and all americans have to do is destroy the talk radio monopoly with protests and boycotts. stop blaming symptoms of letting 1500 radio stations blast the country all day with corporate and russian bullshit, like voter suppression, money in politics, ignorance, big lies, fox, social media, trump, etc.

[StarfishSaver]

7. Thank you

The administration is still under court order NOT to include the question.

And since this is the court that they got caught lying to, I doubt this judge is going to cut them much slack or be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on anything.

It's a crazy situation, but not as dire as some may think.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. What is disturbing is the fact that Trump will try to circumvent court orders,

if not defy them altogether. But we always expected that, didn't we?

Working for the DoJ was always regarded as a plum job for a lawyer. But I think I'd rather have a job cleaning porta-potties at a burrito-eating festival than work for this DoJ.

[StarfishSaver]

9. I can't imagine how miserable these lawyers must be

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Just from reading the transcript, I got the impression

that Gardner wanted to be anywhere else and was considering running away to join the circus. Or at least start drinking heavily and often.

[not_the_one]

58. this is my prediction

They will print the census WITH the citizenship question on it, despite the court's ruling.

They will be challenged.

Their challenge will not stand, but since the questionnaires are no longer legit, they can't be used, therefore they MUST delay the census.

Remember, turdface said Ivanka was looking at how to get it on the ballot, in spite of the ruling.

Ivanka probably thought up this little slight of hand...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. It's already gone to the printer without the question.

[calimary]

88. Oh great. That's what we need. Put Ivanka on it.

[spanone]

75. This morning CNN reported he's threatening an Executive Order over the census bullshit

[pangaia]

28. ".... try to find a way to include the question while still complying

with the Supreme Court's decision. ."

Hoe is that possible.

Also, I actually read most of that link..
What trump and his shitfaced cohorts want to do. is, if they can not include the question, then to scare the living shit out of people by lying about it, distorting what is going on, threatening, you name it.

THAT also has to be stopped.

[lordsummerisle]

46. I thought that the printing deadline

has already passed. How can it be changed now?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

54. I think the printing has already started, so it can't be changed.

What I think has happened is that Trump can't stand to lose so he tweeted that they're going to add the citizen question anyhow - leaving the DoJ lawyers in an impossible position because they'd already told the judge that they accept the Supreme Court's decision. One of the lawyers at today's hearing was Jody Hunt, who was recently promoted to the head of the DoJ's civil division, and who had been Jeff Sessions' chief of staff. Since he knew what happens to disobedient attorneys general in the Trump administration, he was trying to do Trump's bidding. But the judge told him he'd have to come up with a justification for trying to circumvent the Supreme Court's decision - by Friday at 2:00. I don't know how they could possibly do that without suborning perjury by Wilbur Ross.

[LiberalArkie]

92. They will send the ones without the questions to areas where Trump has property

[Honeycombe8]

83. What the transcript says, in essence, is this.

Fed attys: your Honor, we're looking at trying to find a way around the S.Ct.'s order not to include a citizenship question.

Judge: Oh, I see. Cool.

The good lawyers: Your Honor, we need an order from you emphatically stating that the SCT order is what it is, and that a citizenship question has been decreed to be off limits.

Judge: Geez, I don't know if there's a good basis for me to issue an order like that. I want you guys to get together and see if you can agree on some way forward, and get back with me on Friday and tell me what I need to do. I don't care if there's a citizenship question or not. I just need to do something here, so the govt can proceed with the census. I want either (1) a stipulation that you will abide by the S.Ct. order and NOT include a citizenship question; or (2) a schedule for proceeding on a protection claim claimed by the good lawyers, because of this stuff that the govt is now pulling.

Fed attys: Can we do this on Monday instead of Friday, Judge? Because it's July 4th, and we've all got this big parade to go to, with tanks and all.

Judge: No. We've lost a week already on this crap.

The good lawyers: Judge, I'd like to ask what happened to the repeated representations by the fed attys to the S.Ct., this Court, and everyone, that all this needed to be resolved by June 30th? That June 30th was a critical deadline...everything had to be concluded by June 30th? Now they want to delay more? What happened to their critical deadline of June 30th?

Judge: I'm not going to tippy toe into those waters, because I suspect we won't get a useful answer out of the fed attys.

One of the good lawyers: Judge, I want to get on the record that there is still the permanent injunction from your Court against there being a citizenship question in the Census.

Judge: I agree. See you guys Friday.

THE END

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. That's about right.

I wonder what desperate, bullshit argument Gardner and Hunt will come up with by tomorrow afternoon? But what the heck, Trump says he's going to do it by executive order anyhow.

OK, I took Con Law more than 30 years ago, so I guess I've forgotten the part where they said a Supreme Court decision could be negated by a president's executive order.

[Maven]

5. It's done.

As many of us have been saying.

In case it isn't clear, the Republican Party no longer recognizes the legitimacy of any opposition.

The United States as we've known it is over. The question now is, how do the sane people extricate ourselves from the illegitimate authority of the extreme right and start to build a new power structure that actually represents the majority?

[scarytomcat]

23. Should we consider splitting the union?

Start a new country of progressive states. My state might not make the cut. I would move.


ssively

[triron]

25. Our constitution seems a poor remedy. What do you propose?

[scarytomcat]

34. Leave and start a new country and let rethugs do it their way

A nonviolent civil war. New constitution. The south would be happy to not listen to western liberalism. Let them keep the hate and poverty. Simplify...

[bdamomma]

38. Vlad would

be extremely happy to see the demise of the US, which he wants he wants to be supreme ruler.

[scarytomcat]

42. Yes he does

And he may yet do it with republican help either way.

[ewagner]

68. Trump doesn't have to side with Vlad....

to meet Vlad's goal of destabilizing America...he just has to have Trump create chaos and division....

and the mf'er is doing it....

[ooky]

45. I'm afraid I would be stuck behind the iron curtain.

My family is all here.

[scarytomcat]

105. sorry

[royable]

49. How about we divide the country by elevation?

All the land less than 20 feet about sea level goes to the Repubs, and the land over 20 feet goes to the Democrats, with the exception of a few port cities. Then we wait 100 years and see what happens. (Glub.)

[onetexan]

62. One if by land, two if by sea

how about we stay & take the country back in2020?

[scarytomcat]

106. OK I'M IN

but...

[tazkcmo]

76. No.

What the hell? Every death of every soldier that ever fought for the continued existence of America would be for squat if we just fold and give these bastards half our country. Is this not worth fighting for? If not, then what is?

I will not go silently into this good night.

[scarytomcat]

104. so more dead Americans

good night

[tazkcmo]

107. 3 million

Roughly how many Americans die annually. Now. Death is also a part of life. I'm not afraid of it while at the same time I don't try to hasten it , I want to live. In America and all it used to stand for. For me, it's worth dying for. Obviously you don't. I respect your feelings and served in the military for your freedom to not. For now, we can all work together so nobody has to make that choice. Solidarity. Resist. Peace.

[scarytomcat]

108. sorry to be tommy downer

it will be a hard slog with all that is stacked against us, the media, gerrymandering, the courts, the senate, the white house, the russians and other countries but I too am not giving up yet. But what's next if we fail, this may be the last chance for our democracy.

Are you from kansas city?

[tazkcmo]

109. No problem.

It happens to the best of us and emphasizes the importance of solidarity and supporting each other. Most things worth doing are hard and the worthier the harder but I'm confident we are up to the task. Hang in there.

Yes, I am from KC, currently in St. Joseph plotting a move westward before winter. I've had enough of these winters!

[scarytomcat]

110. I was born in KC

moved south to Texas

[TrogL]

82. You could join Canada

https://images.app.goo.gl/atm7b5vQmbmVqjZD9

[scarytomcat]

103. Canada does not want us poor mericans that can't support themselves

[Different Drummer]

6. Happy 243rd, America. I hope you live to see 244.

However, my optimism regarding the possibility of that is very low indeed.

[pangaia]

29. mee to

[struggle4progress]

11. Monster

[BigOleDummy]

67. Yes!

Good pick and good music ;D

[Me.]

12. Not Dead

and will only be if we let it, so everyone needs to pull it together and stop mourning what has not come to pass...yet

[bdamomma]

40. ............

[Butterflylady]

81. Absolutely

I hate when people make that judgement. I truly believe that there are people who will not let all those thousands and thousands of people who.died so some anal idiot could erase what they died for over a period of 243 years. Isn't going to happen.

[Me.]

84. They Going To Fold Because Of The Traitor In The WH?

This is a test of us, it's not only up to him

[struggle4progress]

13. With God on our side

[struggle4progress]

14. My country tis of thy people

[watoos]

15. Trump is a con man

The damage has already been done regarding the citizenship question on the census. Hispanics and others are not going to fill out the census whether or not the question is on the form.

Roberts left an opening for Trump to get the citizenship question on the form or Trump May just do it on his own which IMHO is a BFD.

[struggle4progress]

16. Eve of destruction

[IronLionZion]

17. And they've been packing the courts with extremists

so we are losing the ability to have judicial power check and balance the president's power and congress's laws

[pangaia]

30. That is something tooo many seem to forget..

Not too many honest judges left...

[Ahpook]

18. Its fucked

My main concern is this mess happening in the first place. We can vote this POS out, but there is a long list of goons behind him, not to mention Mcconnell and the rest of the shit walking the halls in DC.

Whats to stop it from happening again?

Our country is extremely ill

[struggle4progress]

19. How can I keep from singing?

[struggle4progress]

20. If I had a hammer

[struggle4progress]

21. Eye on the prize

[aquamarina]

22. There needs to be someone standing over the actual printers and monitoring what come out just to

make sure the census is printed without that damn question.

I can already predict the, "oops, we forgot to take the citizen question off since it went to the printers before the SCOTUS made its ruling - oh well, I guess we'll just have to use this one since it costs too much to re-print" bullshit.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. Meanwhile the House won't even stand up and

Impeach the SOB...and you hear no empassioned senatorial speeches. We are alone

[superpatriotman]

31. +1

The orange anus controls the enforcement of laws, the Treasury, the military...

The other two “equal” branches control absolutely nothing.

[triron]

32. Stunning isn't it.

[appalachiablue]

43. +1 The Dem. Lions of the Senate, where are they?

[dalton99a]

70. +1

[bdamomma]

79. We are not alone

We have each other, and this too shall pass. We need to dig deep into our hearts do we really want this for our children or grandchildren to live in dictatorship??? What about those who fought for this country to keep it free? We need to search our souls.

[Poiuyt]

90. I'm beginning to fear that Nancy Pelosi doesn't have the fight in her anymore

Old and tired. No fire in her belly.

[anarch]

96. there is no rule of law anymore

any attempt to deal with this fascist junta through "normal" political or regulatory channels is going to be met with frustration, because they'll just keep ignoring anything they don't like from Congress, and the GOP will back it up, along with the right-wing ideologues they've installed in the courts.

Nobody is coming to save us; the ones we are waiting for, are us. We need to start organizing more effectively at the local levels.

[TheSocialDem]

26. It's wild. Nt.

[democratisphere]

27. All the more reason we must unite behind the candidate that will

garner the most votes from the most voters.

[triron]

35. Except vote-suppressing Republican goons and Russian GRU, etc. are behind Trump.

[Mr. Evil]

33. Remember the French Revolution 230 years ago. They got it right!

That's what it's going to take. The powers that be in this country are so far beyond corrupt that a revolution is what it is going to take to correct it. Those of you waiting for Nancy Pelosi or a new Democratic president to fix everything are going to be disappointed. They still sing the praises of capitalism. Capitalism is what got us to this point. Capitalism can be good just like any other economic philosophy. But, the unbridled capitalism that we're experiencing today is unsustainable.

Fascism, coupled with unbridled capitalism, can be a giant wedge with the people. Just watch Focksnooze. We have to finally decide just what kind of society we want to raise our children in. The children being held in cages were told this is the place to live in a good society.
So far, all that's been proven to them is that coming to America is a larger nightmare than what they left.

I wish I had all the answers but, I do know one thing. Human beings should not have the right to treat other human beings in a demeaning fashion. Especially if you are fortunate or had the opportunity to acquire great wealth. Everyone alive deserves to live their one life with dignity. They all deserve at least one opportunity to shine.

The French go it so right...

[The Wizard]

51. Pitchforks torches and rope

[JudyM]

77. There wasn't a "well-armed militia" of violent white supremacists at the ready to attack the

uprising in France, which complicates the matter. The French citizenry was united.

[Pepsidog]

37. DOJ is devoid of integrity. Stand up for something other than a deranged narcissist.

[dewsgirl]

39. All of this in only two and a half short years.

[delisen]

41. Don't sign the death certificate yet. We are just at the beginning stage

of the age of the women warriors.

[anarch]

97. not that I'd condone any such horrific violence, but....

it comes to mind that someone properly motivated could probably find a large number of women who are secretly frustrated at their mistreatment at the hands of the patriarchy, and who are in particularly good positions to do something about it for the rest of us (due to who these certain fed-up women I'm thinking of happen to be married to)...if they managed to organize and recruit enough members and sympathizers, and wanted to get all "Game of Thrones" style about it in a coordinated display of solidarity and so on....

Or we could just get that whole segment to stop voting how their abusive husbands tell them to, and vote for their own interests for once, I dunno...I bet someone could come up with an effective psy-ops campaign along those lines too. If anyone was so inclined.

[Kablooie]

44. And Republicans sit by happily because that annoying American democracy will soon be gone.

They are the true traitors.
They who have the power to do something and do absolutely nothing.

[TexasTowelie]

73. The Soviet Union no longer exists.

Enjoy your brief stay.

[sobenji]

48. We had a good run.

243 years was admirable.

[zentrum]

50. Maybe we need a Tianamin

...Square demonstration of our own, where thousands lie down in front of the tanks in the name of the caged children.

What's happening is truly terrifying.

[Desert_Leslie]

52. He needs a talking point for his "Parade"

I think this entire exercise is just to give him a talking point for his little 4th of July rally tomorrow night ... in front of the Lincoln Memorial (which makes me gag).

"Poor, poor me! I TRIED to put the question on the census ... but that dastardly court system wouldn't let me!!!! Poor, poor me!"

Gag.

[Freethinker65]

53. So Roberts gave them a heads up on how to argue the case to make it seem less racist and partisan

And give Roberts something to save face on as he gives power and control to minority white male conservatives for decades....much like his gerrymandering decision.

Just fucking great. Our nation dies for an ignorant grotesque reality tv charlatan. Fuck it all.

[DallasNE]

55. Yes, We Are A Lot Farther Down The Rabbit Hole

Than most of us realize. And I mean a lot.

Things must return to regular order. Trump doesn't conduct business using government approved communications channels such as a government email account. Hillary was crucified for using a private email server and here Trump uses a Twitter account, of all things, for the same purpose - lock him up - except he is constantly undercutting his own team.

Today Trump uses Twitter to announce his defiance of a supreme Court decision and orders the DOJ to implement his order. The DOJ now is in the process of doing just that which defies the oath they took to uphold the Constitution and that certainly means a Supreme Court ruling. How that they keep their law license when they are failing to uphold the law. As Nuremberg taught us, following orders is no excuse. Lock them all up - it is the only way to stop this madness.

[Sophiegirl]

56. It is pretty striking

It is pretty striking how delicate our democracy was. I assumed certain norms would hold true. However, they clearly have not withstood the internal forces that welcomed external forces to retain power at all costs and win the crown, so to speak. Including ejecting our collective morality and ethics. The sense of right and wrong; good and bad. Where hate and fear are encouraged and divisiveness is embraced.

I grieve for what we have lost in just over a couple of years. What has stood firm since the birth of our nation. But I will fight to regain it. For me...for my children...and my grandchildren....

What I want to know is....where are our former leaders and why aren’t they standing up publicly for the people? Because it is not polite??? Seems that President Carter is the only former President to tell it like it is!! That the election was stolen. That Trump is an illegitimate President. Where are the others? Why aren’t they speaking for us in a way that makes the nightly news on a regular basis? Polite is so over.

I should stop now. Hoping for seriously stormy weather tomorrow evening. Forecast seems good for it here in DC. I live in the burbs. I want major storms tomorrow that will spoil his little me-fest.

[StevieM]

57. What's even scarier is the SCOTUS orders that will be obeyed.

They are pretty much done with democracy.

It is frightening how close they came to striking down Obamacare. And they probably will strike it down at some upcoming point. Right there we can't be considered a democracy.

[world wide wally]

60. Right, Nancy

Impeachment is just too dangerous.

[Doodley]

61. It all rests on the next election. When 42% or 43% approve of a wannabe fascist president, we are in

a very bad place, and it isn't the America we knew just three years ago.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

100. All that matters .. approval in swing. Would like to

See them all under 40. And our candidate matters. Gotta be a swing winner or we will be stuck for 5 1/2 yrs

[Wawannabe]

63. My realization

Was Nov 2016!
Fuck!

[YOHABLO]

64. When are we going to learn that the Republican agenda is to destroy Democracy in this country.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. Not dead. Price of liberty is eternal vigilance. . . . nt

[moondust]

66. Could be.

As time goes by there may be more ignorant princelings like the tRump family ascending to positions of power and creating new problems rather than solving existing ones. Just inherit a fortune, slosh it around here and there a few million at a time, and claim you did something great because you're a "stable genius" with the "best brain." Lots of fools will believe it because they want to believe it. I'm not convinced tRump knows how to tie his own shoes since growing up he always had plenty of money to pay somebody else to do everything for him.

The farther the country strays from true meritocracy the more likely it is to fail.

[Everyman Jackal]

69. What the South did wrong was to attack Fort Sumter.

That gave the North the excuse to attack the South. The Democrats in the House need to show what is wrong with the trump and the Republicans in the Senate. If the 2020 election goes to the Republicans even if we keep the House what if the states like California refused to send any money to the federal government? Blue states have to work together but do not secede. Ship produce only to blue states and allies. Cause the federal government to totally override The Constitution on interstate commerce. Ask Canada and Mexico for whatever help they can give us without breaking federal laws.

[colsohlibgal]

80. It Is In Jeopardy

Ignoring Subpoenas, Court Orders, the freaking law. Orange Twitler labeling any news critical of him and his cohorts as Fake News.

We need to hold all three branches and 2020 could not be more important.

[alterfurz]

86. Dawn's early light, or Twilight's last gleaming?

[Laelth]

87. It will take more than a loser like Donald Trump to destroy the American republic. n/t

-Laelth

[The Liberal Lion]

89. My friends, comrades and country-persons

We are, imho, beyond the point of waiting for heroes to save the day AND faith that the system will self correct. It's not happening. Our elected officials are either pure evil (Republicans) nazis or spineless cowards unwilling to use their powers to right this great wrong. In this DU forum many times I find myself expressing the unpopular opinion. I've been sanctioned and chastised by others here with opinions as well as by the admin. But you know what? Someone has got to call a spade a spade and disabuse the complacent of the notion that everything is going to ok because someone else is going to take care of it. It's not happening. Everyday our fair land sinks further and further into depravity, and even those who know better do little but complain, and still go about their days as though everything is going to be ok. It's not ok! Our enemy lives in the White House. Our enemy controls the Senate, the Supreme Court and most of the state legislatures and Governor mansions. Meanwhile our elected allies sit in the people's House and concoct not ways to resist and defeat, but ways to compromise and find common ground! There is no compromise with evil! Friends, comrades, country-persons and true patriots there will be no heroes to save the day, and the system is not self correcting, it is morphing into ugliness and pure evil. Our fair land is filthy with disease. These times are not normal, and the actions required from true patriots can no longer be normal, but rather they must be extraordinary. We must be our own heroes, and we must take hold of the courage to do what must be done. The system is broken beyond repair. It must be discarded and replaced. I can not tell you what to do. I lead myself and myself only. However, you know what must be done and what you can do. Do it, and leave those tasks to someone else no more.

[Cha]

91. All excellent reasons the MF Must GO.

[MikeJelf]

98. If Democracy Were Alive, My Vote would Count More than a Cow's

With the Electoral College in power, the presidential vote of any citizen in a populous area is worth only a fraction of the vote of a cow, a slave, or any plutocrat.
The Senate is ruled by an individual who not only spurned manhood by betraying his oath to the Constitution (he sneeringly and facetiously rejected his duty to advise and consent on a Supreme Court nomination after God called a reactionary justice home), but refuses to allow any popular legislation to be discussed.
The angry baby wouldn't be in the White House if in 2016 enough states had already joined the compact to award electoral votes for president to the winner of the majority popular vote.
Making the Senate democratic is a bigger challenge than democratizing the presidential vote.
Our founders were influenced by their British heritage and historical memory of the aristocratic upper house (the House of Lords) as a curb on central (royal) authority -- Magna Carta, habeas corpus, trial by jury, and all that.
Under the present Congressional arrangement "one dollar, one vote" is the favored Senatorial arrangement, and it's hard to see it changing until plutocrats act like the aristocrats of the Magna Carta era -- that is, until they care more about what they leave to posterity than what they can scrounge for themselves in the here and now.

[AncientGeezer]

102. Change the Constitution...it's just that simple(complicated).

"...rejected his duty to advise and consent on a Supreme Court nomination after God called a reactionary justice home), but refuses to allow any popular legislation to be discussed."
See.. that's how it works when we/they lose elections. The Rules get changed.... Harry Reid went nuke...Turtle went bigger nuke.

[Thomas Hurt]

101. May be dead, on the brink, on the edge...

how come the House leadership doesn't seem that concerned?

Are some Democrats being hysterical or is the House leadership whistling past the graveyard.