Question about 25th Amendment

[JesterCS]

This is just for discussion. I'm curious of others thoughts.

Do you think it would be easier to invoke section 3 of the 25th as opposed to section 4 in regards to Trump? And I'd love to hear reasons from both 3 and 4 crowds.

Edit for clarity:

Section 3 would be temporary removal of trump pending a medical evaluation, example of mental condition

Section 4 would be straight removal

[FBaggins]

1. No

Only Trump can “invoke section III”

Your summary of III and IV is incorrect.

[JesterCS]

4. Well thanks for the info.

Had just been watching Madam Secretary and it was brought up and I wasn't entirely sure how the process worked.

A shame section 3 has to be voluntary

[FBaggins]

6. Yeah... Madam Secretary is entertaining fiction...

... but the writers don't seem to have a clue. They heard something about 25A and thought that it would make for an interesting story.

[melm00se]

2. 25th Amendment

Section 3 covers the president voluntarily notifying appropriate people in the Senate and House that he/she is unable to discharge presidential duties (it has been invoked 3 times when the president underwent surgery).

Section 4 covers the situation where the president is unable to invoke section 3. The duty then falls to the VP and cabinet to make the notification. This section goes on to discuss and address what would happen and the resolution process in case the president disagreed with his VP and cabinet.

Which brings up the point that the 25th Amendment was never intended to replace the impeachment process. Note the steeper requirement to involuntarily remove a sitting president via the Section 4: 2/3's of both the House and the Senate are needed as opposed to a simple majority in the House and 2/3's in the Senate for impeachment.

The one really big "advantage" to the 25th Amendment is that it requires that Congress move swiftly under Section 4 whereas the impeachment process the Senate can establish it's own timeline for an impeachment trial.

[Amishman]

5. Thank you for the excellent summary

It's important to focus on what it actually says rather than what we would like it to say

[melm00se]

7. Yup

When the 25th Amendment was being debated, due to the close proximity of the events that precipitated its drafting and ratification (Einsehower - heart attack and Kennedy - assassination), the concerns that the 25th Amendment could be used for political purposes were brushed aside. Based upon the number of questions and comments that I have seen and heard in regards to using the 25th Amendment to remove Trump, those ignored concerns may very well have been well founded.

[MineralMan]

3. Just forget the 25th Amendment.

Its requirements are even more difficult to meet than impeachment. 2/3 of both houses of Congress. Not happening.