180,000,000 times $600 ?

[questionseverything]

whatever the answer is that is the amount of untaxed income every month because of folks that receive their healthcare from their employer


I used the $600 per month as the average

[questionseverything]

1. not taxing these benefits started under fdr

maybe it is time to even the playing field

there are a couple different ways to do it

either tax the benefits or allow others to deduct the same kind of costs

[MadDAsHell]

26. Who are "others"? There's hardly anyone not on either employee healthcare or medicaid/medicare. nt

[Hoyt]

2. Ask your favorite candidate to propose eliminating that exclusion from income. See what happens.

[questionseverything]

3. i get that it would not be popular but can we not even talk about the difference in the way people

are taxed?

especially since we constantly hear how we cant afford anything

[Hoyt]

5. It wouldn't affect me, but it would be a big change. Plus, I believe that $600 would also

be subject to Social Security tax, not just income tax.

On the other hand, sooner or later, we all are going to have to pay more for things like universal healthcare, climate change, education, deficit and debt reduction, etc. Might as well look at everything.

[questionseverything]

6. the self employed and employees w/o benefits are already paying ss tax and income tax on their

healthcare insurance dollars

if there are 180 million peops with employer paid insurance then there are 140 million w/o it, getting the short end of the stick


this is one reason getting rid of private ins doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me


besides private ins gets you when you are younger and cost less while Medicare gets you when we are almost guaranteed to cost more

[Hoyt]

8. I think self-employed can exclude/deduct their health insurance premiums.

"Self-employed people who qualify are allowed to deduct 100% of their health insurance premiums (including dental and long-term care coverage) for themselves, their spouses, and their dependents. It’s important to understand, however, that this is not a business deduction. It is a special personal deduction for the self-employed. This deduction applies only to your federal, state, and local income taxes, not to your self-employment taxes."

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-self-employed-health-insurance-deduction-a-valuable-personal-deduction.html


Those without self-payed insurance are often on Medicaid, or have ACA subsidies. Those without any coverage, are the ones really screwed. If it takes taxing those who are covered to insure everyone, I'd be for that.

While you and I don't think it would be bad to get rid of private, employer based insurance, those 180 Million might, as well as a bunch of self-employed people who are too stupid to see a government run health plan should be better.

[questionseverything]

10. your irs thing was from 2005...i am pretty sure the aca changed it but

even if it was just the ss tax that was handled differently, it still would not be an even deal


the aca uses your income before ss taxes or income tax is paid, to figure your credit, that I am sure of

[Hoyt]

18. I think it's still deductible. Obama would have been crucified if he ended that

deduction.

Here’s just one recent article: https://blog.stridehealth.com/post/deducting-health-expenses

[questionseverything]

23. i stand corrected in part...while it says the premiums are deductible not all the other expenses are

Background on Deducting Expenses
Generally speaking, when you file your taxes, you have the option of taking the standard deduction or itemizing your deductions. The 2018 standard deduction is $12,000 for a single filer.
However, you have the option to itemize your deductions on a separate form, Schedule A, instead of taking the standard deduction on Form 1040. Itemizing deductions could save you a lot of money come tax time since you can potentially claim a deduction higher than $12,000 (if you have enough deductible expenses to itemize). Here are some of the deductions that you can itemize:
Mortgage interest
Gifts to charity
State and local income taxes
Medical expenses above 7.5% of your Adjusted Gross Income

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I just know I haven't had health insurance since they raised it to 3 grand a month a piece

the aca is tricky at 42 grand a yr I could get a high deductible policy for nothing but at 52 grand it is 18 grand a year

since when u r self employed you never know what you will make and I don't want to owe 18 grand at end for subsidies I didn't deserve

it's complicated

thanks for the civil discussion

[Hoyt]

24. I get it. Time to get everyone insured under the cheapest, but quality, care we can.

[questionseverything]

14. i dont know how the self employed could be on medicaid because in illinois you can't have more than

$2000 of anything and qualify

heck the insurance I have to pay every January is more than that but it might be different in other places

[Hoyt]

15. I said "those without selfpayed insurance," meaning they didn't have insurance. Hence, Medicaid

might apply. I could have worded it better.

[questionseverything]

16. np i apprciate the feed back

n/t

[questionseverything]

20. so is 180,000,000 times $500 $90,000,000,000?

I compromised at 500 because someone said 600 was too high an average

is it 90 billion bucks a month we are talking about?

these numbers are too big for my old head to be sure of

[Hoyt]

21. Yeah, but the taxes would "only be" $18 B depending on tax brackets.

Again, doesn’t impact me, semi-retired. But the tax rates have been built for 50 years or more incentivizing companies to offer health insurance and employees to all but demand it.

I think if we got away from employer based insurance, it would pretty much come out in the wash with increased taxes to fund single payer.

If I were going after tax income now, I’d would start with churches, many other “non-profits,” and repealing last couple of tax cuts.

[questionseverything]

25. taxing the mega churchs would be fine with me

I would hate to tax the tiny ones that actually try and help peops

getting rid of some of the last tax cuts goes w/o saying

[former9thward]

17. You math is so far off.Di

Do you think there is 140 million without insurance? What about the people on Medicare and Medicaid? They don't count? What about children? Who is getting the "short end of the stick"?

[dsc]

4. that is very high

many of that 180,000,000 million would be children who are on their parent's policy and they don't cost anything like $600. Also, I think even for the adults who are covered the $600 figure is likely high. Full price on the exchange is lower than that for a sliver plan for anyone under 60. https://www.healthcare.gov/small-businesses/shop-rates/north-carolina/

[questionseverything]

7. i'm just over 60 and the aca would cost my spouse and myself 1800 a month if we didnt get a subsidy

that's 900 a piece with a 6 grand a piece out of pocket

my newborn grandson cost 400 bucks a month to add to his mom's policy (and that is with her employer subsidizing it)

if you want to use 500 a month average times 180 mill we could do that...it is still a huge number to be untaxed for SOME

while others pay ss taxes and income tax on every dollar of healthcare premiums

I am simply saying it is not an even playing field

[dsc]

9. kids are vastly less

and many of those 180 million are kids. Also many of us who get insurance provided don't get the whole amount provided. I think the more accurate figure is about $300 a month. I do get that there is an unfairness and that medical insurance should be able to be purchased with pre tax dollars by individuals.

[questionseverything]

11. we are pretty much in agreement i think

employees that have to subsidize their employer provided healthcare should get to deduct that too

[Cicada]

12. Look at Form w2 box 12 Code dd to see cost

In my town a married couple both teaching, two children, the amount for 2018 $29,547.

The school doesn’t care what it’s compensation costs are for, it just cares how much it costs.,If we had a national health system wages would increase $29547. Or at least the school could increase wages that much with no change in its budget. There is a lot of money available to pay tax for national health system.

Our problem is that the cost of medical services is high. Elsewhere they have price controls. An orthopedic surgeon at Kaiser probably makes more than $500,000 a year. In Germany I bet she makes only half that much. Our hospitals get paid more too, I bet. I bet if they got paid less all who are paid by the Hospital would accept less compensation. I think we need price controls.

[questionseverything]

13. i agree completely, price control is the place to start

I don't know about a Kaiser surgeon but we have built houses for surgeons who would laugh at a 40,000 dollar cost, saying they make that by noon most days


shhhhhhhhhh


yes there is plenty of money it just needs moved around a lil

[former9thward]

19. You are just making up figures.

Which is what people who don't have facts do...

[Hoyt]

22. There was a time when Orthos would make that in a week. But nowadays with

Medicare and private insurers pretty much controlling fees, that’s tough. Some really sought after Orthos might not even enroll with Medicare or low-paying private insurers, but they are rare.

[Cicada]

28. 478120 was average salary for orthopedic surgeon last month

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/orthopedic-surgeon-salary

If they made $100,000 less the US would still pay more than in any other country. I wonder how many would retire. I wonder how many in college would go to business school instead of medical school.

[Hoyt]

29. I bet not many would go to business school. Medical school is all but a guarantee of

being in upper 1% to 5% of income. Business school, not so much unless one has some good connections to begin with.

But the days of an Ortho making $40K in half a day are long gone, unless the own surgery centers, PT clinics, X-ray and MRI facilities, have a bunch of junior docs and PAs working under them, etc.

[doc03]

27. That is a Repulican idea brought up a

few years ago to screw Unions. Millionaires getting away with murder and you want to tax benefits Unions strugled decades to get!