I am going to show you how much trouble we are in by saying this.

[shockey80]

The president must resign immediately for the crimes he has committed against the American people and the United States of America.

Have you heard any news organization or member of congress say this after yesterdays hearing. I haven't. That is scary, I watched most of the hearings and it was devastating. Why isn't anybody calling for Trump to resign?

We have a president who is a major national security threat because the crimes he has committed has left him open to blackmail.

The depth of apathy, ignorance and lack of urgency in our country is staggering, it could destroy us.

After the hearings yesterday people were talking about how Mueller looked. It was like they never seen a 75 year old before.

There is something seriously wrong with this picture. The American people are heading for a very bad ending.

[Farmer-Rick]

1. Yes, Trump should resign.

But Dems may not be calling for it because they know he won't do it.

But a person with a modicum of self respect would resign.

[olegramps]

29. The citizens of Puerto Rico drove the governor out of office for far less serious offenses.

I can only suppose this is the new national norm. Damn sad situation that we find ourselves in. If the polarization is not broken somehow, the nation is in for a period of government stagnation.

[onetexan]

31. i was thinking of that when i heard of PR gov's resignation this morning

Why can't sensible Americans rise up to do the same? There are more of us than there are the RW.

[BigmanPigman]

60. Three guests on Nicole Wallace's MSNBC show just said this too!

They all said that if they can do it in PR than why not here. They blame the media for how the whole thing has been portrayed as well as the Dems for not being more forceful. They also reminded us that more US citizens have protested in the past two years than they have since the 60s. Also, they believe that if all the people who want him to resign or be impeached had one massive march like they did in Puerto Rico it would be a big factor in getting action, finally.

[TxVietVet]

78. Do it! TAKE IT TO THE STREETS!!!!

If enough people show up and shut down DC, the conservanazis will get the hint that the majority of people are not happy with the whole conservanazi strangl hold on our country. tRump’s sick ego will be hurting if thousands scream “F*CK tRump!, and Thow him out!”

[Ahpook]

81. That would work

But it would have to be massive. Every major city, millions of people calling out of work. Shut the fucking thing down!

They won't care about anything less than that

[CTyankee]

98. The Women's March came very close to that. It was here and it was world wide.

the next day things went back to business as usual.

[BigmanPigman]

100. That was THE march of my lifetime.

Yes, we need that again but even bigger! Someone on MSNBC just said that while the reps are on Aug Recess we need to go to their town halls and demand an inquiry/hearings and groups need to organize another huge protest and focus on Russian attacks on our country's elections. Most Americans are really against Russian meddling so that could fire people up too.

Dems need a big issue to put our "stamp" on for 2020 since the tons of good bills/legislation they have passed in the House is going nowhere due to Mitch. If we can just mark/stamp tRump as a criminal (even if the Senate doesn't impeach him) than that is a plus for the Dems come the election. Nancy knows this and that is why she is allowing the initiation for the steps leading to an inquiry now.

[CTyankee]

102. Yes, I think that is her strategy to have this evolve into one big ball of slime being investigated

everywhere and for everything. I wrote in an earlier post that she is letting Trump "twist slowly, slowly in the wind" to quote someone from the Nixon investigation days. But Trump isn't Nixon (who I thought was the devil incarnate). He's far, far worse. And I think Nancy is thinking of past investigations of corruption and cover ups. There will come a time when either America has had enough or is just too tired to care any more.

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

92. People shrug. As long as the economy is going well and people are tuning out right now...

nothing will change. Most people are enjoying summer and don't know what's going on. They don't care. Maybe the Dems should have waited until September 1 to have this hearing.

It all went downhill when Barr gave his lie-filled report. That set the narrative and the media ran with it.

I think it's over and we will have to accept that The Occupant will continue to get away with everything...and will likely be reelected.

[olegramps]

99. Well, that paints a bleak picture. Hope you are not right about the outcome.

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

105. I hope that I'm 100% WRONG!!!

[ehrnst]

94. He has everything to lose by resigning. He can be indicted.

And we know he has no modicum of shame.

[blueinredohio]

2. Those were my thoughts exactly after the hearings.

I don't think we even have time to wait for impeachment. He needs to resign NOW!

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. Here's tRUMP's response......."See you in 2020!"

[VOX]

4. There are bigger anti-Trump rallies in Europe than in the U.S.

Why people haven’t hit the streets by now is flabbergasting. How much left is there to lose? Plenty, as in *everything*.

[HipChick]

14. Agree...Americans are too complacent..

[The_jackalope]

17. Perhaps Americans are more concerned than Europeans about protests triggering violence

After all, the US is where most of the virulent Trump support lives. And they're armed...

[Traildogbob]

21. They are armed???

Last edited Thu Jul 25, 2019, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

So sit in safety and hope for a savior. Explain that to the families of thousands of soldiers storming the beaches that were slaughtered to stop the same regime we are allowing to fester right here at home. Their deaths were useless, right? The fight for our democracy over our history has taken many lives and we are on the cusp of loosing it right now. I served, I took an oath, I knew my life could be lost and I for one will never sit on my ass in fear to dishonor ALL that GAVE ALL for the soul of this country. This war will not be won on Twitter. Russia/trump is much better armed. I am not saying hit the streets armed to kill, but we must show our strength is the shear numbers of us that are not gonna stand idle. We are under attack, from our own fucking White House, bolstered by Fox Noise.

[Loge23]

41. Yes, this.

Strength in numbers is our only recourse now.
Look at Hong Kong and Puerto Rico.
What will it take to wake up America? We are dire straights right now and the republic is in grave danger.

[Mr.Bill]

52. They are armed? So are we. n/t

[rownesheck]

46. I think the reason millions of us aren't out marching

in the streets is because we have to work. Lots of us work in retail unfortunately and don't have weekends off. I look at protest marches going on and wonder how so many people are able to go. It baffles me. How are they able to miss work? Trust me, I would love to march (I have before), but with work and family stuff, it's ridiculously difficult to go.

Oh, also, some people have severe social anxiety disorder which makes it even more difficult. I've forced myself to overcome it a few times in order to attend a march. Overall, it's just hard for some of us.

[zackymilly]

103. I agree. Some of us have jobs at risk.

I could take off and participate, but if some type of trouble started and I got in the middle of it and was arrested, with the type of work I do, I would be fired, and probably not be able to get a job in my field again. I'm too old to start over doing something else.

[Zoonart]

5. Our addiction to being entertained 24/7

by our devices has turned us from being citizens to being an audience. Instead of action, we wait and complain about the poor reviews of our favorite show.... the Trump Show. We "stock up on the popcorn", instead of lacing up our sneakers and getting our asses to Washington to demand Trump"s resignation or to pressure the Congress to begin impeachment proceedings.

We are hypnotized by the perpetual self-reinforcement loop, that the social media networks have set up to reinforce everything we want to see and hear. The loop always tells us we are right and everyone else is wrong.

The man in the White house is a CRIMINAL. He should resign immediately because every day he remains, is another day that this country is on the precipice of disaster.

I remember that President Obama used to say..."If you want me to do a thing (health care, etc.) You have to MAKE ME DO IT." What he meant was, you have to pressure your Congressmen and Senators to push the bills to law that the President will then sign. We have to push our representatives to call for resignation. Not by emailing them or calling their offices. We have to physically show our numbers. I think this is the only way forward.

The Revolution will NOT be tweeted.

[c-rational]

20. Well put. Recently I read it as since the 1970's, we have become consumers and not citizens.

And this may be our ultimate downfall, not only as a country but as a species.

[Cetacea]

39. Consume. Produce. Die.

...

[SergeStorms]

22. Amen.

My thoughts exactly. The American people neither care about or deserve the freedoms they enjoy. They imagine things will carry on the exact same way - on auto-pilot - without their interest or participation being necessary. They're wrong, of course, so the well prepared forces of fascism are taking over this country unimpeded. They've been plotting and planning this takeover for more than 50 years and they've finally won without a shot ever being fired. The American people won't realize this until it's far too late. It's a fait accompli.

I'm mulling over what my next step is. My entire family is here in the U.S. but I can't see myself living in this country much longer. At almost 70 years of age I'm too damned old to keep up this fight. It's over anyway. There's nothing we can do. Our democratic "leaders" are far too timid "keeping our powder dry", and not wanting to make waves so they can hang on to their own phony-baloney jobs. They won't have them much longer anyway. Opposition will not be allowed shortly, so Speaker Pelosi can ride off into the sunset with her "dignity" in tact, knowing that she was the last line of failed defense this country had. I hope she can live with that.

[richkay21]

80. i HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR OVER A YEAR

We cannot sit behind our computers and continue to go about business as usual. The republican party should be labeled a terrorist organization. A protest march on Washington is the only answer. We cannot expect Mueller and Pelosi to fix this for us. I am calling on all Democrats and all editors of the democratic news media (i.e. Huffington Post, Raw Story, Politico, the Nation etc..) to organize ONE MARCH (not separate marches in each major city) on Washington. Every decent American who cares about this country needs to be there.

[Timer]

89. I agree. It should be carefully scheduled & planned, and then it should happen. nt

[yonder]

57. Bingo

[FailureToCommunicate]

6. We need to follow the Puerto Rico model...

[Paladin]

11. EXACTLY!

Quit depending on Mueller. Don't expect much from Pelosi. Our presidential candidates are in the business of playing it safe. Whatever media support we had is drifting away.

It's always been up to We The People to confront and defeat trump. We need to take it to the streets, on a massive scale.

[oldsoftie]

28. Or take it to the polls. Like in 2018. And in 1/21, Trump will walk away defeated if we do.

I bet he woudnt even show up wo the inauguration of the next president. thats how big a baby he is.

but 5 million people could march and he wouldnt resign. Because he doesnt care what we think.

[Ahpook]

82. The only problem with that is

the stinking pile of shit was selected in the first place. That is a serious problem. We had Bush {Cheney} before that and Palin came close to a vice. That right there frightens me to the point of sleepless nights.

Who is going to be the next asshole after Trump? There will be one and the voters will go right back to voting for these freaks. Not to mention voting shenanigans.

It gets worse every election cycle. If this keeps going, Trump will be Santa Claus in comparison.

[avebury]

7. He will never resign because he

knows he could face criminal prosecution. Instead he I'll look to Russia to fix the 2020 election and Putin will so that Trump can complete the destruction of the US.

[cannabis_flower]

53. Maybe he should just do what Alberto Fujimoto (ex-president of Peru) did...

Get on a plane to Japan ( or in this case Russia) and not come back!!

[ehrnst]

91. He won't resign. He wants to run out the statute of limitations on some of his crimes.

[cannabis_flower]

93. If he fled

he would never face extradition in Russia.

[hlthe2b]

8. He has (abetted by a compliant MSM) NORMALIZED the unthinkable

It is exceedingly frightening.

[Timmygoat]

9. People don't seem to be talking about

The little boy who died in the toilet at a detention center overnight, not a word, is being said, except someone said they thought he had the flu, he did not need to die, his death is unforgivable, we are shamed. This should not be allowed to go on. I don't know if it is true but I heard the people in charge of these detention facilities took home 1 million dollar paychecks - and we are starving children, giving them no medical attention, this is crimes against humanity.

[ananda]

10. The apathy, ignorance, and lack of urgency IS destroying us.

It has been since Florida 2000.

This is the culmination.

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. This.

[2naSalit]

19. +++++++++!!!

[ehrnst]

27. On the part of whom? (nt)

[ashredux]

12. People are in an odd stupor....."it can't happen here"

It CAN and it IS happening ....we need to wake up!

[Katinfl]

43. Now that he knows he can be indicted when he leaves office

It is going to get worse. He has nothing to lose so this campaign will be the nastiest, dirtiest, down in the gutter crap we have ever seen......bar none. We know Russia’s hacked 2016 so now he will outright ask for and welcome more help. We know this, the powers that be know this and nothing is done i.e. the Senate votes yesterday on election security. We are screwed.......

[harumph]

13. shockey, for those of us who have maintained our objectivity - and

I think most members of this board would be included - it's like looking through a fun-house
mirror (without the fun). The term "normalization" is thrown about, and it's true -
this aberrant behavior is the new normal. The overriding problem is that these purveyors of
propaganda in congress and the media know exactly what they're doing and won't be turned away or
shamed into changing their behavior. Both Tucker Carlson and Anderson Cooper are
extremely rich white males (despite being on opposite sides politically and sexual orientation) - as far
as we know. In order to get a media spot in even a major region - you have to know someone. More importantly, your
connections give produce value with a news organization. A rich man/woman is more likely to have connections than a poor or
middle class person.

There is a typical American myth of the self-made man. I asked my nephew to name one. He said
Sam Walton. A quick look up of Sam Walton reveals he got a 20,000 loan FROM HIS FATHER (in 1945) to buy his first store.
$20,000 in 1945 is about $280,000 in 2018 dollars. I'm not saying that Sam wasn't smart and a good businessman.
I'm saying that for most of us - we don't have access to seed money like that or a rich daddy or collateral to start a business in the first place. Moreover, this wealth inequality just grows over time. The only problem for those who benefit from such a system
is how to mollify or distract those who aren't benefiting.

I'm not against private property. I do believe that being able to turn a profit encourages innovation and problem solving. That said,
much of the economy is now simply "rent seeking" behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

The economy is broken for everyone except the rich and those
few who have benefit of elite/professional degrees. Even in the latter case, people wind up fucked if someone in their family
gets seriously ill. We're cattle people. The game needs to change. One suggestion I have is to form a group of democrats with
IT experience to start to build a searchable data store of all the people - places - connections between all these fuckers. Who are they really? What are their assets? Family? Friends? Clubs? Hobbies? Votes?

I'm sure some will say that sounds all "big brotherish..." - but you can bet the farm, right wing think tanks are doing it.

[oldsoftie]

32. The self made man is NOT a myth. I know a ton of them. Most have NO degrees.

And i know several who are quite a bit younger than me. ALL of them were raised in middle or even lower class homes. I hate hearing the defeatist attitudes that you just cant make it if you dont have money. Certainly its a lot EASIER if you come from money, but there is no limit to hard work and yes, luck.
Look at Oprah Winfrey. Look at barack & Michelle Obama. What money did THEY come from? There are MANY just like them.

[Enoki33]

38. Correct. You need the idea first, and the research to prove that idea economically

feasible. Then you look for the funding. It’s an enormous amount of work involved, fueled almost by dedication and dreams. Once those are achieved, you are free from economic slavery. It also teaches you a political lesson. Pardon the soapbox.

[harumph]

40. Hit a nerve? Dude, I own a successful LLC and started with no seed money.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about BIG MONEY. MONEY THAT MAKES A
DIFFERENCE IN POLICIES. The kind of disposable income that might induce a politician to give you the fucking time of day.
I'm not talking about a middling lawyer, car wash owner, a pediatrician, a restaurateur...etc. I'm talking about people who
have in excess of 20 million in liquid assets.

Study after study point to the FACT that
intergenerational mobility is less in the U.S. is less than in parts of so-called (by
right wing bullshitters) "socialist Europe"

https://voxeu.org/article/intergenerational-mobility-us

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aparnamathur/2018/07/16/the-u-s-does-poorly-on-yet-another-metric-of-economic-mobility/#68a9b39b6a7b

I live in a major US city. There's so much Goddamn money here. People living in small to mid-size
cities have no idea. They have no idea how much MONEY is tied up in non-productive rent seeking
activities.

As George Carlin said "It's a club - and you're not in it."

Horatio Alger is dead.

[oldsoftie]

50. Yes you did. Thank you for the clarification.

I used to know a guy (recently deceased at 65) who started as a cab driver in NYC & ended up worth 85 Million. And BTW, he couldnt stand trump. Could never do business with him because he said he was such a crook!
Yes, you did hit a nerve. Because i hear people all the time talking about how nobody can "make it" anymore. I know now that you were referring to the SUPER rich. But they've always been around. 100 yrs ago it was even worse than today. And "making it" means different things to different people. I dont really worry about the billionaires. There arent that many of them and THEY cant survive without US. And money in politics will never go away either. Regardless of who is in office.

[Marengo]

55. What would be the purpose of this database, and searchable by who?

[harumph]

58. I think you know what the purpose is.

It's to fuck with republicans the way they've been doing us for years.

Don't worry, servers will be hardened - machine level access only.

[Marengo]

59. Fuck with them how? How would this data be used?

[harumph]

65. Oppo research - nothing illegal - no need to get your panties in a twist.

Dear me, the idea that the people can play the game of big brother by leveraging
big data does seem to exercise some folks. Lordy! I've got the vapors!

[Marengo]

66. I would advise you modernize your vocabulary..

To something less sexist.

[harumph]

67. Yes. Not going to happen.

How bout "...knickerbockers in a tangle"

All kinds of humans wear those right?

[Marengo]

68. Gets called out on using antiquated sexist terminology..,

Doubles down and refuses to acknowledge terminology is sexist...expects to be taken seriously...riiiiiiiight

[harumph]

74. Your concern is noted

[Tipperary]

69. Oh boy.

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. Greed corrupts. Greed is on display on many levels in this horror

[Ferrets are Cool]

18. His crimes make Nixon look like a Sunday School teacher. nt

[marieo1]

23. common decency

DJT isn't going to resign!!! He doesn't have the common decency to resign. He already knows the majority of the American people want him gone and hate him. He is so bold, egotistic and hard that he just doesn't care at all that we hate him. A decent person would have resigned a long time ago but that liar, thief, crook, mean, hateful person. Probably paid fabulous money to stick it out in the WH by the Russians or who knows who, all DJT cares about is lining his pockets with the green stuff and will do anything to get the money!!

[area51]

37. +1 n/t

[zentrum]

24. Yup. It's a new scarey.

[Firestorm49]

25. They've got the power they've wanted to convert America into an Autocracy.

Trump resign? He’s already mentioned on more than one occasion that he would like to serve a third term. We’re on the path of destruction as evidenced by Mc Connelly’s authoritarian so called leadership.

It’s a nice thought, but that’s about as far as it goes. This is bare knuckle fighting.

[ehrnst]

26. You heard Mueller. If he resigns, he can be indicted. Not going to happen. (nt)

[CTyankee]

104. he'll sit on his fat ass in the White House and not come out and somehow think he'll get

reelected.

[TxVietVet]

30. If the Dems don't impeach

the orange-faced shit gibbon, we are pawns of the Russians and the conservanazis will create a fascist dictatorship in our country.

[calimary]

33. It's America itself that's heading for a bad ending.

But hey, anything good on TV?

[CaptainTruth]

34. Trump resigns, Pence gives him a blanket pardon, Trump can't be prosecuted for crimes in office.

That's one outcome I've been afraid of because it would mean Trump would never pay for his crimes.

I've even thought if (WHEN) Trump loses in 2020 he might resign on his last day in office so he can get a blanket pardon from Pence. Then we'd have to rip up & throw away all the indictments we have waiting for him, & he would get away with all of it ... every crime he committed in office. No charges could be brought, no trials, no jail time.

Trump could get a HUGE "get out of jail free" card by simply resigning.

That's how f**ked up our system is...

[kentuck]

35. What has become "normal" is very abnormal,

He talks about "killing 10 million people " in Afghanistan, as he sits next to the leader of Pakistan, a nuclear power, and nobody even notices???

Now, all these facts about crimes committed and collusion with an adversarial country, and it is all in the "normal" course of events?

[hay rick]

36. Being a free citizen in a democracy is an earned benefit.

Good citizenship is not a full time job, but it requires more time and effort than the vast majority of Americans are willing to invest. Our corporate media reinforces the idea that we can be passive consumers of democracy, and if it doesn't work to our benefit, there is somebody else to blame.

[Bradical79]

42. Optics, strategy, lazy, complacent

It's probably one of the biggest problems with public televised hearings and debates. Way too many people these days can't parse the questions and answers, and only pay attention to the visuals/mannerisms. Basically a significant portion of our country are a bunch of Chuck Todds. And they're certainly not going ro read the transcript.

Mueller wasn't "nervous" like some said or struggling to come up with answers. He was being asked questions about very specific sections of his 448 page report, under oath, and answers were expected within less than a minute. I think you could hear his confidence and authority as an extremely acomplished lawyer when rebuffing Republicans that crossed the line regarding their criticisms of his team.

People should have been demanding he resign or be impeached within days of him taking office. Peurto Ricans put the rest of America to shame. They forced their governor out after a bunch of horrible comments were exposed. Trump was far worse and the majority just kind of shrugged their shoulders, or actively cheered on his cruelty.

[DBoon]

44. I think a lot of the population wants a RW dictatorship

They want the press to only report news that favors their side. They would be very happy if CNN, NPR and the Washington Post were shut down.

They want the opposition party (the Democratic Party) to vanish in humiliation. Any leader strong enough to mass a following would quickly be disgraced, found guilty of bogus financial improprieties and sent to prison.

They want to eliminate courts, trials and lawyers. They want to remove any judge that opposes their program.

They would eliminate liberal arts education and turn universities into trade schools.

They would support ethnic cleansing, the removal of millions of people who have only known life in this country, because of their ethnicity, language, and religion

Non profit advocacy groups would be hounded out of existence. Social justice organization would be occupied fighting lawsuits, fines and regulations designed to break their effectiveness,

If you want to see where the RW is headed, look at Hungary, Russia, Brazil, Argentina and other countries where they have gained power, where the desire for a strong man rule has seduced the population.

[NightWatcher]

45. Asking politely doesn't accomplish anything. If you want something bad enough, you have to take it.

[lsewpershad]

47. Maybe Americans

can learn from their Puertorican brothers and sisters. Oh wait, they are spanish speakers.

[honest.abe]

48. Exactly.

It's like everyone acts like this is some sort of game show where its Trumps versus the Democrats and appear to be oblivious to the fact we are in a monumental crisis that could be the end of America as we know it.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

49. let's stop paying for news-for-profit

Take your money out of tv subscription and put it into REAL journalists.

[blakstoneranger]

51. You Don't Want Him to Resign

You don't want him impeached. What you really want to do is VOTE HIM OUT OF OFFICE. If you force him out thru resignation or impeachment, he will always be the victim who was bullied out of a job in which HE feels he was good and successfull. He will bragg about his accomplishments (I know) and the economy and he will say he could have done a lot more had the democrats let him. Do we want to deal with mike pence and his ilk? And of course there's the fakenews network (foxnews) and conservative talk radio. These two entities along with Russia are helping to reelect this moron for a second term. We must not worry about impeachment. We need to ensure we have a good democrat nominee who can galvanize voters from all spectrums of our diverse populace. We need to support the democratic nominee and ensure we get out the vote against trump. It would be even nicer if the republicans had a good candidate to run against trump, but they're all too busy kissing that moron's arse to even consider it. Nancy pelosi will not support impeachment unless there is solid evidence--well guess what? There isn't any and there never will be. Most criminal court cases don't have solid evidence. Trump is too lucky for impeachment, but his luck will run out. We just have to make sure that when his luck does run out that we are ready and have everybody ready to vote against trump----->DUMP TRUMP 2020!!

[JudyM]

54. You can bet your ass the republicans are watching this very closely, seeing what they can get away

with in the future. Like how we walked away from the wrongly decided bush v Gore, like how we walked away from the shrub/cheney crimes, like how we walked away from the outright stealing of OUR Supreme Court seat.... we need to STOP walking away from holding them to account.

[mudstump]

63. Too late...republicans have learned that the rules don't apply to them.

It's what we get when Pelosi keep taking impeachment off the freaking table.

[bbgrunt]

56. I guess many feel that if it's not worth impeaching, it's not worth marching.

[mudstump]

64. "I guess many feel that if it's not worth impeaching, it's not worth marching.....

and, many will feel that it's not worth voting. We can thank a spineless Pelosi for taking impeachment off the table...with Bush and now with Trump.

[spanone]

61. Our Puerto Rican Brothers & Sisters showed us the way....

[mudstump]

62. "The American people are heading for a very bad ending"......

Wake up people...we aren't heading for anything....the end is already here and we are watching it with our own eyes.

[SargeXXX]

70. ...and therefore, Trump should immediately resign. (should be on every tweet, post and text)

[ehrnst]

90. Did you see the Mueller testimony? He can be indicted once he's out of office. He will never resign.

He will try to stay in office as long as possible to run out statutes of limitations for his crimes.

Continuing to put hope or energy into the idea that he will is a waste of both.

[fallout87]

71. Unfortunately people dont care.

The viewership of the Mueller hearings fell pretty flat. Comey hearings garnered twice the viewership. Most people can't be bothered to get up off their ass and pay attention. Only people like us here are really in tune with what's going on.

[AngryOldDem]

72. Coming out of lurkdom, because this hit a nerve

Yesterday on another forum I wrote that the case to get rid of Trump was right there in The Mueller Report, in plain, understandable English, if anyone bothers to read it.

Volumes 1 and 2 combined are roughly 400 pages long. The appendices add more, but they are really not needed for basic facts unless you want to dig into legal documents. The report is about half the size of a typical Stephen King novel and comparable in length to a Tom Clancy. Same kind of genre, really; only Mueller is real and Trump’s continued threat even more so.

One response I got was that nobody has the time to read it. Really? Let’s see...we have time for shit like American Idol, America’s Got Talent, and The Bachelor. We have time for The Real Housewives of Podunk. We have time for whatever sport is in season. We have time to post every minute of our lives on Twitter and Instagram. But we don’t have time to learn about the greatest threat to this country’s — and our — survival, ever?

The response continued that we need to have the report explained to us, because we can’t/won’t read it. Through what/whose prism? Bill Barr’s? Whatever the latest TV talking head says? Whoever in Congress can yell the loudest and get across their spin on it? We have to read it for ourselves.. Weneed to take the time. We can’t depend on others to do our work for us.

It’s trite, but true: Democracy needs participants, not spectators. Our apathy and learned helplessness will be our demise, and it flat pisses me off. I’’ve been looking at the protests in Puerto Rico, and all I can think of is, I’ll never see that here on the mainland. If we act like sheep, we’ll be treated like sheep — with all that implies. Full stop.

[SunSeeker]

73. K & R

[Hortensis]

75. :) Gee, since it's all so clear and easy for you, you need to keep

your hands off. Please don't step in and fix this.

I'm afraid I have much greater faith in people who don't live in a black-and-white world in which the huge RW powers of our nation and others seemingly don't even exist.

[TalenaGor]

76. but then we get pence....and our narrative on him has been nearly nil

[Maxheader]

77. I thought I detected...

a little gleam in muellers' eyes when he said yes to the question...

"Can trump face charges after it is out of office?"

Muellers' answer....yes

[Skittles]

79. he knows no one will hold him accountable

not only will Trump not resign, he will keep getting WORSE and WORSE

[YOHABLO]

83. I think you are exactly right. There are numerous reasons why.

Too many to go into here. But we know who the Republicans work for, and it's not us.

[Ligyron]

84. Plus now the Senate Intel Committee releases a "holy shit" report.

They find that the Russians actually got into the state's voter data base and attempted to do so in all 50 states. Apparently they were able to change data in the Illinois voter data base from what I understand.

And the response? Crickets

This is a five alarm national call to arms as this is for all intents and purposes an act of war and what do the patriots in the Senate do? The Turtle shuts down attempts to better fund the individual state's cyber security put forth today.

How is Podunk Nebraska suppose to defend itself against cyber attacks by the might of the Russian state?

[pansypoo53219]

85. nixon was taken out for his cover-up, but the moron is so bad. he fooled no one. he gets a pass????

[kentuck]

86. We are the frog in the boiling water...

[ecstatic]

87. we're the frogs in the pot

watching helplessly as the US swerves into fascism.

[Locrian]

88. we're in deep shit and I don't know how the US is going to get out of it....

I think we're seeing a fundamental lack of action / concern / etc by the average person because they think it just doesn't matter anymore. That it's all rigged. That nothing matters - a fundamental break down in the social contract that keeps "civilization" in order.

People are building their own support groups: be it around some bullshit celebrity, sports, church (good and bad), hate groups, other groups, whatever. They all feel "on their own" and our little pocket devices and mass media circus allow us to check out. And the "facts" can be whatever and can be found at will on the internet or wholesale lies on FOX (and even CNN, etc)

The root cause (IMHO) is the very real evidence that our government and officials, corporations and wealthy that run things simply DO NOT CARE about the average person. And I mean that PERIOD. Unless you're wealthy and/or come corporate entity - "we" simply are irrelevant. Either to be talked down to, promised something via divisive tactics, or as cattle for the prison, medical, financial industries.

[ehrnst]

95. So you think that our Democratic leadership also "DOES NOT CARE about the average person"

"Period?"

[Locrian]

96. I believe they have a conflict of interest...

they honestly may think they are not biased, and that what they do is intended to "care" but they don't act in the interest of people vs corporation/wealthy. They live in a bubble:

Professors Martin Gilens of Princeton University and Benjamin Page of Northwestern University looked at more than ***20*** years of data to answer a pretty simple question: Does the government represent the people?

Their study took data from nearly 2,000 public-opinion surveys and compared what the people wanted to what the government actually did. What they found was extremely unsettling: The opinions of the bottom 90% of income earners in America has essentially no impact at all.

“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.

"

Hence the typical opinion that "gov doesn't work for us"

[ehrnst]

97. Is that a yes or a no about Democratic leadership "caring about us"?

[techne7319]

101. We are in trouble...

Impeachment is not a viable option and will only backfire if pursued. Mueller’s investigation and the subsequent hearings/testimonies in both the House and Senate will offer no solution to getting rid of Trump. The limits that were placed Mueller’s investigation and testimony, coupled with the uncooperative nature of subpoenaed individuals in the Trump administration have hindered any justice. Trump and company have been and continue to be happy for all these processes to take place because they know there is no “smoking gun” or they know it is so far buried that they can’t get undeniably caught. They let Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, etc... be the fall guys. It’s all a sham and has been from the get go. Dems can’t win the investigations/hearings war. It will only hurt them come 2020. Focus should be put on winning the presidency and finding a way to win back the Senate. Yes, we are in trouble.

[ck4829]

106. K&R