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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy We're Moving Forward With Impeachment
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/why-were-moving-forward-impeachment/594931/?fbclid=IwAR2LNv7LcJwsF0hNhRXD1lMGkk9f-nuePoASB_i62oiSbmkAdLnhVkQZLrUWhy Were Moving Forward With Impeachment
Our Constitution requires it. Our democracy depends on it.
Jul 26, 2019
Mary Gay Scanlon
Vice Chair of the House Judiciary Committee
David Cicilline
U.S. representative from Rhode Island
Pramila Jayapal
U.S. representative from Washington
Veronica Escobar
U.S. representative from Texas
During his press conference announcing the end of his investigation, Mueller pointed out that the Department of Justice believes the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal-justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. He was referring, without using the word, to impeachmenta process by which the U.S. House indicts, and the Senate convicts, a sitting president.
Congress has patiently tried to work within traditional means to get to the bottom of this extraordinary situation. Committees have called witnesses and requested evidence, only to be stonewalled by Trump and his associates. The presidents refusal to comply with the Constitution, statutes, and established congressional oversight defies the rule of law.
Muellers testimony before the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees was a watershed moment. At this point, it is up to Congress to act on the evidence of multiple counts of obstruction of justice committed by the president, and to continue our investigation into whether he has committed other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Despite assertions to the contrary by the president and his allies, the special counsels report and testimony are not the end of our investigations. We have now filed a petition in court to obtain the grand-jury documents referenced in the special counsels report. In that filing, we have made clear that we will utilize our Article I powers to obtain the additional underlying evidence, as well as enforce subpoenas for key witness testimony, and broaden our investigations to include conflicts of interest and financial misconduct.
While many people believe that beginning an impeachment investigation can begin only with a vote of the full House of Representatives, this is not true. Article I authorizes the House Judiciary Committee to begin this process.
As members of the House Judiciary Committee, we understand the gravity of this moment that we find ourselves in. We wake up every morning with the understanding of the oath that binds us as members of Congress, and the trust that our constituents placed in us to uphold that oath. We will move forward with the impeachment process. Our investigation will seriously examine all the evidence as we consider whether to bring articles of impeachment or other remedies under our Article I powers.
Our Constitution requires it. Our democracy depends on it.
lark
(23,147 posts)It's time to begin the inquiry.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)OneBro
(1,159 posts)It seems like Democrats could and should have dozens of investigative hearings going on the multitude of crimes and unethical conduct involving Trump and his administration.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The DOJ have blocked all and sundry. That is what this announcement is about.
watoos
(7,142 posts)Democratic Reps are going to get bombarded at town halls with calls for impeachment. Jerry Nadler, a good man, is getting primaried by someone who is pushing impeachment and she is raising a good amount of money.
I listen to media outlets outside of DU, I listen to Sirius radio, and let me tell the good people here at DU, the people who call in to the various programs are 90% - 10% in favor of impeachment. I don't believe any of the polls that cable news puts out, they are propaganda, I believe what the actual people are saying.
I have a theory that Speaker Pelosi is waiting until she gets Trump's taxes before she declares a formal impeachment inquiry. IMO, Democrats should get his taxes, and get them well before the election, this is the Dems best court case. I mean the IRS gave the Nixon committee his taxes the same day they were asked.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The House passed HR 430 on June 11, 2019, which conferred any and all of Article 1 powers on the Judiciary Committee - A motion to establish a formal impeachment inquiry does the same thing. Pelosi got HR 430 through the House without saying Impeachment, but from that time, an impeachment inquiry was underway. As Nancy's daughter said, Mom has cut off your head before you know you're bleeding.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212322166
BlueMTexpat
(15,372 posts)on DU STILL do not "get" this.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Forget DU, the media and political commentators still haven't got a clue.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212322614
watoos
(7,142 posts)You can't have a hearing without witnesses. A formal impeachment hearing carries more clout with the courts.
Nadler's judiciary committee is still a legislative committee, if I'm wrong I will stand corrected. The courts are more prone to expedite decisions for a judicial committee.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's all the same committee - the House Judiciary Committee. And that Committee has different roles and obligations including oversight, legislation and impeachment.
The issue isn't what committee is conducting the proceeding but what the committee is doing and in what role. The House has made clear that the Judiciary Committee is conducting an investigation in pursuit of its Article I authority (i.e., impeachment power), which is separate from its oversight and legislative roles. When it has its Article I hat on, its requests have just as much "clout" - the legal term is that it has "standing" - as any other judicial body to obtain the materials it's seeking.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)If an impeachment committee asks the court to release the grand jury information, and if Jerry Nadler's committee asks the court to release the grand jury information, the court is going to give more weight to an impeachment committee because it is a judicial procedure. Nadler's committee is a legislative committee. Nadler has not said that his committee is an impeachment committee. Can the court release the grand jury info to Nadler's committee, absolutely, he is smart to cite the clause regarding proceedings that may lead to impeachment. I give him credit for trying to get that grand jury info without opening up a formal impeachment inquiry.
An impeachment committee has more standing with the courts than Nadler's judicial committee in requesting the court to release the grand jury information. Bill Barr even admitted that.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The more you toss around these word salads of nothingness garnished with gobbledygook of meaningless terms, the more you show how little you know about this.
Just stop.
spanone
(135,861 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Those who think they know better than he and the Speaker are another story.
mahina
(17,693 posts)If so, thats awesome.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Judge Trevor McFadden, a Trump appointee, rejected a bid by Trump lawyer William Consovoy to have McFadden hear both that case and a separate lawsuit by Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal seeking the president's federal returns.
More at link
watoos
(7,142 posts)He is one of the Nixon prosecutors. He said it is probably a good move for chairman Neal not to take Trump's state taxes because it could muddy the waters in Dems efforts to get Trump's federal taxes which will be much more revealing.
Nick did laugh heartily at Trump's law suit to try to stop his state taxes from being exposed. Trump's argument is it violates his 1st Amendment rights.
oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)But how is getting his returns violating his free speech? Or are his attys stupid? Or me?
brutus smith
(685 posts)Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)another violation of the Emolument Clause by suggesting the world leaders meet at HIS (failing) Doral golf resort in Florida. He merrily goes on his way, breaking every rule, while the gop say nothing. Remember, Clinton was impeached for a personal affair, nothing like this clown is getting away with.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Botany
(70,567 posts)usaf-vet
(6,196 posts)Option 1:
The Democrats whined and made noise about how bad Trump and his band of con men and thieves were destroying our democracy. But never managed to curtail the Trump assault on the Constitution and the country. Trump and his family avoided all punishment and enjoyed the riches they stole from hard-working Americans.
or
Option 2:
The Democrats used every legal means available to them to honor their oaths to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. After long legal battles and continuous acts of obstruction by Trump and his co-conspirator including the republican members of Congress. The tide finally turned and the Democrats in the house held impeachment hearings that documented Trump crimes against our democracy. Even though the Senate refused to consider any evidence of Trump's crimes and hold a trial.
Trump's initial downfall came when the voters in the 2020 election voted him out of office. Experts declared that the impeachment hearing was key to Trump's failure to win a second term. On the day that the winner of the 2020 election was sworn in. Trump and his co-conspirators were indicted on multiple counts of crimes against the citizen of the United States.
After long court trials. Trump, his family, and all co-conspirators were found guilty and sentenced to long terms in federal prison. Additionally, under RICO statues the co-conspirators were stripped of all their assets. And in one final act of punishment Trump's immigrant wife was deported from the U.S. and stripped of all legal status. The country "sent her back" to where she came from.
Hey, a guy can dream, right? I chose Option 2.
That is how I hope the historians write the story.
The saga of the treasonous attempts by members of the GOP led by the MAGA "stable genius" with the help of the Russian government tried to destroy our DEMOCRACY.
oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)because it WILL be dragged out to go into election season. He can continue yelling "witch hunt". People who dont pay attention may very well see the actions as "they've been after trump since day one" regardless of the facts. And if Nov '20 comes with all that going on & people feel they're doing better than 4 yrs ago, watch out.
But hey, what do I know.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)Others may see the House passing an impeachment as a success, I dont. Its like fixing the engine but still having no wheels; you've got a car, but it isnt going anywhere
brutus smith
(685 posts)And the wait and see approach has worked so well in the past.
techne7319
(173 posts)Its not an impeach or do nothing situation. Its about using all the evidence as ammo in campaigning for 2020 instead of launching more investigations and inquiries in to the same old activities of Trump. We can do a lot but going down the impeachment road will not play out well in the end. It wont pass. The energy should be put in winning in 2020.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's a real downer for people that need to create a scapegoat.
techne7319
(173 posts)What is that and whos scapegoating whom?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"That" is facts and sense, as your post displays.
brutus smith
(685 posts)I know you're smarter than everyone else.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I see someone's panties are in a bunch.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Do tell.
techne7319
(173 posts)Despite ALL the evidence the majority of congress does not feel compelled to impeach, nor does the majority of the American people. While impeachment may be democratically responsible action to take, it could easily be political suicide for Dems if it fails. Even if it passes, it could still play out poorly for the Senate will never convict. Continuing to go down this rabbit hole of investigations and inquiries and rehashing the same evidence is losing its luster. I feel were in a damned if we do, damned if we dont situation.
oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)techne7319
(173 posts)The best scenario is win in 2020, definitely the presidency and whatever gains we can make in the Senate. Impeachment and even the unrealistic impeachment with conviction will still leave Republicans in charge.
techne7319
(173 posts)The road of impeachment is a dangerous one, in my opinion. The facts are already out there and have been for some time. We dont have anywhere near the majority of votes in the House for it to pass. Its unlikely enough minds will be changed during proceedings. It will backfire on Dems. Candidates can still campaign on the evidence and the general disdain of the current administration.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When there isn't any way that doesn't involve the cooperation of McConnell and Pence.
Which means there is no way.
But I feel like this view is in such a minority on this point, at least on DU. I try not to get sucked up in the sensationalism of whatever the buzz story is on MSM either. Im just a concerned Democrat who would prefer focus be put on elections than some attractive but seemingly unrealistic impeachment strategy.
oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)CrispyQ
(36,502 posts)My friends & family are fortunate & not flailing economically, but we all certainly see how far our finances are being stretched. His tariffs are hurting middle & lower class Americans. His tax cuts for the rich are hurting middle & lower class Americans. They are shredding the safety net even though it's not being reported, but that's hurting middle & lower class Americans. I don't see how even red America won't feel Don the Con's economy before November of next year. Of course if they can keep the stock market it up, they've convinced a lot of middle class Americans that the market is a good indicator of the overall economy.
No one has a crystal ball & can say for certain how it will go if the House dems impeach or don't impeach. I think the scope of the criminality of this administration demands public exposure & I think the word impeachment will capture the attention of all the people who are not political junkies like most of DU.
oldsoftie
(12,587 posts)They cover a wide range of income & parts of the country. But its hardly a scientific poll either.
But the odds are that there WILL be a slowdown, at the least, around election time