Seth Abramson: "What was going on here?" (with Epstein)

[triron]

Link to tweet

More in his thread feed.

[jberryhill]

1. "They'll wonder why he said, "See you Sunday!" to his attorneys before offing himself"

Yes, because someone who is doing his best to avoid suicide watch should have said, "Take the weekend off, because I'm killing myself tonight!"

And his point "4)" makes it sound as if this underfunded and poorly staffed federal facility was less than well-run. Hard to imagine.

Does Louise Mensch have any "intel" on this?

[triron]

2. Why are you so eager to discredit?

[jberryhill]

3. Did I make a personal comment about you?

It's a discussion board. IMHO both of Abrahamson's observations are relatively facile.

Someone who is attempting to pass as "not a suicide risk" will make exactly that kind of statement.

[UniteFightBack]

23. It's called just plain making sense. Epstein was a manipulative fuck. nt

[leftstreet]

4. Why would he want to kill himself?

I haven't seen anyone answer that

[uponit7771]

8. +1, he could have thousands of dead man switches set up world wide to protect himself

... from any real jail or even murder.

We'll see, if there is not any real scandalous crap coming out in the next six months then he is still alive or some crap.

[UniteFightBack]

25. His brother identified his body. Oh wait he's probably in on it too. nt

[jberryhill]

11. Good question

I mean, what could possibly have been bothering him about his future prospects?

Surely, he was expecting to soon go back to his mansion, his private island, his far flung estates from New Mexico to Paris, surrounded by luxury and the finest things money could buy, along with servants at his beck and call to satisfy his every desire on a moment's notice.

And, surely, life in the MCC could not have been very much different from that.

I mean, sure, suicide is pretty common among persons arrested for child molestation, but he was so... different. You know, he was a rugged guy who was used to roughing it.

[leftstreet]

15. It's not like he hadn't done time before n/t

[jberryhill]

19. Uhhhhhmmmm...... about that previous "jail time"

Actual reporters from actual news sources are pretty good at what they do:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-jeffrey-epstein-jail-records-release-20190817-qvinwbnpobfb3c7lox7qnzmrni-story.html

Jeffrey Epstein’s special treatment in jail was far more lenient than anyone knew

At one point in 2009, Epstein’s already generous work-release agreement was modified to allow him to leave Palm Beach County Jail seven days a week, for up to 16 hours a day — including two hours per day at the Palm Beach mansion where he previously sexually abused dozens of minor girls, records from the Sheriff’s Office reveal.

[...]

While back at the jail, Epstein had privileges such as an unlocked jail cell door and a private television, to make his stay in the stockade more comfortable.

[...]

As part of the arrangement, Epstein’s nonprofit organization paid nearly $128,000 to the Sheriff’s Office for off-deputy deputies to supervise the work release. The deputies were required to wear suits while on the detail.

State Sen. Lauren Book, D-Plantation, led the calls for an FDLE investigation, noting how “Epstein enjoyed an unprecedented and deeply troubling level of leniency and luxury while incarcerated by PBSO … We need answers if we want accountability.”


He knew that was not in the cards this time around. And, mind you, he was in pre-trial lockup, presumed innocent, and his elaborate scheme for house arrest at his Manhattan mansion was denied. He wasn't even serving time, and had not yet been convicted on the most recent charges.

There is utterly no comparison with the previous circumstances. None.

You are seriously going to compare 13 months of work-release, complete with private sex romps, to the federal MCC lockup?

[UniteFightBack]

26. The guy needed 3 orgasms a day, and not by his own 'hand'. If he wasn't cumming then he decided he

was going.

[jberryhill]

34. "...and always too soon"

[Sugar Smack]

13. He probably preferred a moment of excruciating pain to

the rest of his life being spent in discomfort.

[leftstreet]

14. Do convicted sex traffickers get life in prison?

[jberryhill]

20. If you are 66 years old, and get 100 years....

...then I guess that's not technically a "life sentence".

I mean, lots of people get released from prison in their late 100's or mid 200's. Happens all the time.

[leftstreet]

31. 100 years?! Do murderers even get that?

You'd think he'd get maybe 5-10

But, I don't know what sex trafficking sentencing guidelines are in NY

[jberryhill]

33. These were federal, not state charges

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/jeffrey-epstein-court-07-08-19/h_4dcb1b2edbaa7b7a9d0acf953a1ae97b


Geoffrey Berman, US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, said the charges against Jeffrey Epstein carry a maximum sentence of 45 years in prison.

"The charges are very serious, and they carry a maximum of 45 years in jail, which to someone of Epstein's age is basically a life sentence," he said.

[leftstreet]

35. Wow

I didn't know that

[jberryhill]

36. And those are just the initial charges

Pending processing of the search materials seized from the mansion and, more importantly, a detailed review of his financial dealings, there was likely a superceding indictment in his future with many more charges.

That initial complaint was enough to get him locked up and execute the searches.

There was more in store. Unlikely what many people fantasize about, but certainly devastating for him.

The thing about being guilty is - you know what you did, even before investigators figure it out.

The other thing about being guilty is that you know you are guilty long before the jury does.

[mopinko]

17. because he was a sex addict going cold turkey?

hard come down from 3 orgasms a day w beautiful young girls to rosy palm and her 5 daughters.

[UniteFightBack]

27. Thank you I just posted this. nt

[calimary]

28. BOOM!

[elevator48]

5. Facile argument? Yours is classic.

He wasn't on suicide watch. If he had said nothing about seeing his lawyer Sunday would they have put him back on....of course not. The people in charge of whether to put him on would never hear his comment to his lawyer. Pure bs.

[uponit7771]

6. Uh Oh, the rolleyes crew will be on this like white on rice ... Too late

[triron]

16. lol

[UTUSN]

7. Another news item said he was taken off suicide watch because the other incident wasn't suicide

That the quadruple homicide dude had done (the other incident).

[uponit7771]

9. +1, this is my understanding also

[UTUSN]

10. Thanks for the validation. Hope we don't get lambasted!1

[mr_lebowski]

42. But of course, putting Epstein in with a quadruple homicide suspect was 100% and inexorably due to

'incompetence' and 'understaffing' at the facility.

There's just no other explanation possible.

[jberryhill]

44. Just out of curiosity

Of the population there who is in pre-trial detention because they were denied bail, what kinds of things do you suppose they are accused of?

In other words, if you have the list of other pre-trial detainees in the MCC, could you give us a rundown on their charges? That would make it a lot easier to figure out whether it was unusual.

Not very many people are in lockup for being "too nice to others".

[mr_lebowski]

45. I don't have that list, JBH.

But I'm not the one claiming it's totally a normal (or not normal) thing to do, cause I don't know.

Do YOU have that list?

Just asking because you're the one that seems sure that multiple homicide suspects are commonly put in the same cell with suspected sex offenders, like you just know the way things go down in the joint and all.

Figured you'd have the list.

[jberryhill]

46. "But I'm not the one claiming it's totally a normal (or not normal) thing to do"

Then I don't understand the meaning of your sarcastic post above.

El Chapo was there recently.

But I'm surprised no one has pointed out that Paul Manafort is currently being held there.

Recent inmates have included:

Abu Anas al-Libi
Khalid al-Fawwaz

-High-ranking Al-Qaeda operatives; indicted in 2000 on conspiracy charges stemming from Al Qaeda's 1998 bombings of two US embassies in East Africa, which killed 224 people.

Sayfullo Habibullaevich Saipov

- Sayfullo is being held in MCC, New York on suspicion of perpetrating a terrorist attack in New York City. He is charged with Providing material support for a terrorist organization and Destruction of a motor vehicle.

Akayed Ullah

- Convicted in 2018 for terrorism in a plot to destroy a NYC Subway with explosives

---------

How about putting the rich Jewish guy in with some Muslim terrorists? Would that be a better idea?

Everyone there is charged with something. And if they are in pre-trial detention because they were denied bail, then they are charged with something pretty egregious.

I guarantee you that nobody there is charged with excessive kindness to others.

[mr_lebowski]

48. We don't know the in's and out's, how many cells there are, how many 'guests' there were ...

But we do know this is a VERY high-profile prisoner, and an accused sex offender, which everyone knows are at risk of assault in jail/prison type settings.

Maybe they had no choice but to bunk him with a quadruple murder suspect cause everyone else was so much worse (though ... Manafort would've been a logical choice) ... and the place was totally full ... but then ... maybe not.

I'm not making assumptions on that particular subject (the prisoner logistics involved here), but neither should you. Cause you don't know either.

This isn't a normal case, JBH. This is a guy with absolutely KNOWN ties to very rich and famous people, and potential dirt on who knows how many of them. I don't wanna go overboard with the wacky CT's, but I'm keeping an open mind here and not automatically assuming everything is on the up and up no matter what. Just because a potentially logical explanation crops up, I'm not just assuming it's true.

Powerful people wanted this guy dead. Barr is in charge of Justice. Trump was accused by a 13 year old of raping her after an introduction by Epstein.

I'm general very skeptical about CT's, but I'm not going to be hasty in discounting foul play in THIS case.

[jberryhill]

50. If a lot of powerful people wanted him dead....

...then why go through the trouble of indicting him in the first place and focusing media attention on him.

Regardless of how important Epstein was to the media, or to anyone else, I'm inclined to believe that the prison staff didn't give a shit who he was. They have "high profile" people in and out of there all of the time.

So, you agree with Barr's Justice Department that Epstein did all of the things in the criminal complaint, yes? In other words, you believe the official story in that complaint, right?

[jberryhill]

47. How much of a bribe do you think was needed for this federal law enforcement official

As long as we are speculating on how it is at all possible that federal prison staff could do a shitty job without being bought off in order to do a shitty job, I'd like to know how much this TSA agent was bribed:

https://nypost.com/2019/08/16/you-ugly-airport-guard-fired-for-slipping-mean-note-to-random-traveler/

A traveler passing through security at Rochester International Airport got an unexpected sick burn from an employee — when she handed him a folded-up note that said, “You ugly!!!”

Neal Strassner, 40, said he was handed the small, folded-up piece of brown paper by a female worker before collecting his things at the checkpoint in June.

Among the things I've learned this week is that in order to get a federal law enforcement official to behave poorly, a large payment to an offshore bank account is required.

So, how much you think someone was paying her to do that?

[mr_lebowski]

49. Are you asking me? When did I say anything about a bribe?

I replied on the thread about the TSA agent to you already ...

[jberryhill]

51. What makes her any different from people hired every day for federal law enforcement jobs?

[dchill]

12. No collusion! No obstruction!

[SayItLoud]

18. How many others in this hell hole of a jail have offed themselves?

Seems that should be factored into the discussion.

[herding cats]

22. I read only one other.

I know, that seems shocking, but it's what I read.

[herding cats]

21. I hate to say this, but if you've ever been suicidal you lie and make pretty to those around you.

Especially in his circumstances. If they've made you, and you really, really want to be dead. You lie and use all your charisma to convince them you're fine. It was a fluke, no big deal. You've got this.

I've been there and did similar. Luckily for me it didn't work.

No, I wasn't in an institution. I was lying to people who loved me and pretending I was fine so they'd leave me alone and I could end my life. They didn't and I ended up getting help and I'm still here today.

To be clear, I'm not saying there weren't intensive failures in his monitoring. There obviously were. There's no pretending there weren't. Anyone familiar with such levels of desperation know this to be true. When you're desperate and try to end your life no amount of charismatic bullshit should get you past professionals trained to smell it. Especially not in his situation. That's my big WTF here since I sort of know how this works.

[herding cats]

54. Thank you.

I'm glad you're still here too.

[Hoyt]

24. So Abramson says first incident was an assault, not suicide. Maybe that's one

reason they took Epstein off suicide watch.

[jberryhill]

38. Yup

No reason for him to have been on it, if that was the case.

[struggle4progress]

29. Shrieking heard from jail cell the morning he died

On the morning of Jeffrey Epstein's death there was shouting and shrieking from his jail cell, a source familiar with the situation told CBS News ...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-death-shrieking-heard-jail-cell-morning-he-died-metropolitan-correctional-center/

[triron]

30. The timing of the shouting may be relevant.

Article implies shouting was from guards trying to revive him?

[struggle4progress]

32. "Shriek" would be a strange verb for that

[triron]

37. Yes makes one wonder a bit dooesn't it?

[jberryhill]

39. Was that the word used by the unidentified source?

Or was that a word choice by the author?

[struggle4progress]

40. That's a reasonable question but impossible to answer without direct quotes

[jberryhill]

41. Yup

These guards included at least one who knew he was fxsscked by the circumstances too.

[Grasswire2]

43. and the alleged Barr visit to the jail nt

[brush]

53. And wait, what? The OP said Epstein had a woman visitor. That's the first I heard of that.

Wonder if she came with Barr? Just kidding, but who the hell and what the hell—a woman visitor and this just comes out?