new poll finds major shift in values away from patriotism, religion and having kids

[Demovictory9]

Those changes come amid a stark generational divide over which values are seen as most important.

Among those who are either Millennials or Generation Z (ages 18-38), only 42 percent rate patriotism as a “very important” value, while 79 percent of those over 55 say the same.

Just 30 percent of the younger group cite religion or belief in God as very important, while 67 percent of the older group does.

And just 32 percent of those under 38 years old call having children very important, while 54 percent of those over 55 agree.

“There is an emerging America where issues like children, religion, and patriotism are far less important,” said Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies. “And in America, it’s the emerging generation that calls the shots about where the country’s headed.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/deep-boiling-anger-nbc-wsj-poll-finds-pessimistic-america-despite-n1045916

[Skittles]

1. who could blame younger folk for having different values

they are in a different world now

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Imagine if they VOTED where we would be, no con would have power again

[Cicada]

14. Soon the young will be voting, soon the Republican Party will have little power

Trump is fifty fifty in 2020. I doubt a Republican will be President after that. I doubt they will control the Senate in 2024 and beyond. Hopefully we can survive until then.

[not fooled]

20. pukes see the coming changes

in demographics that no amount of gerrymandering and vote theft can stop forever. Joy Reid this morning on her show said that republicans recognize this and that in response, their plan is to leave to those who will inherit the emerging new America a hollowed out, bankrupt shell. Explains all of the looting of the nation's resources, emptying the Treasury, and driving up the national debt. She was quoting someone else; sorry, I didn't catch the reference but the gist of it sure sounds plausible to me. Evil bastards.

The solution is for the young to vote now, as if their lives depend on it, because they do.

[33taw]

51. Sadly, Republicans won't need the presidency. They will have the Supreme Court for decades.

[Cicada]

54. Statutes can trump courts

Courts can not overrule most statutes. Courts decide issues at the margin. Many issues are not marginal. And public opinion influences courts too. Courts are reluctant to buck public outrage.

[33taw]

57. Trump's sc appointees will do as they please. Giving him the opportunity to replace Ginsburg

Will destroy previous norms.

[Cicada]

58. I have more faith in the collective wisdom of courts

British common law courts were a decision machine which like evolution crafted solutions which worked. I have more faith in the process of law than you do.

[Act_of_Reparation]

46. Interesting.

Because by the same logic, the inverse works just as well:

Imagine where we'd be if people over 55 DIDN'T Vote.

Instead of assuming there's something inherently inferior about millions of people, perhaps consider that we're doing a shitty job motivating them.

[BigmanPigman]

2. I'd like to see the results of the same questions and age groups

from each decade since 1900, if any exist that is.

[unblock]

3. Republicans and "maga" give patriotism a bad name

Such a shame

[ooky]

8. Religion too. The younger generation see the hypocrisy, which of course leads them

to the conclusion it was all bullshit.

[Progressive Jones]

27. I'm 60 years old, and I was raised in a very Catholic environment.

I began thinking it was bullshit when I was 7 years old and preparing for my "First Communion".
There were others like me. It's all been a matter of time that more and more catch on.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. "Patriotism" seems to be a uniquely American affliction, anyway

same as extreme religiosity. If younger people view patriotism and religion as less important that just means that the USA is becoming more like other developed countries.

[Freethinker65]

13. At college in the 80's I ran across many overly, IMO, patriotic Germans.

I know that is anecdotal and a while ago, but it was really close to the exceptional attitude many Americans possess. I never understood the "we are #1 and the best at everything" attitude.

[GulfCoast66]

17. Talked to many French people?

Many I know are extremely patriotic. Proud to be a republic and what they have overcome. And the society they have built.

What they don’t have, since they are not religious is the crazy belief that god favors them.

They know where that belief leads.

[erronis]

21. The break-up of Yugoslavia shows that it is not an "American" affliction.

There was, and still is, extreme political, religious, and nationalistic factions. Lots of lives were lost.

[Mariana]

33. Why is it a shame?

Is patriotism inherently good or positive? I don't think so.

[John Fante]

4. Conservatives are the chief cause for this shift.

Their ideology is simply dreadful in all facets. Their religious faith is comically hypocritical and their patriotism is really just white nationalism in a star-spangled disguise.

[elleng]

6. Yes

[Newest Reality]

7. +1

[ChubbyStar]

11. In a nut shell

Thanks!

[NoMoreRepugs]

9. The political establishment scorned isn't a 50-50 thing.

Really tired of whataboutism and both sides are the same.

[Freethinker65]

12. Guess this over 50 female truly is young at heart!

Never cared much about patriotism, religion, nor having kids.

[Duppers]

19. I've reached my 7th decade

Last edited Mon Aug 26, 2019, 01:12 AM - Edit history (2)

Most of my friends don't have children (very choosy about friends). I have only 1 child and have a theory about people with more than 2.

[ChubbyStar]

25. Sounds interesting, what is your theory?

Please share....

[Duppers]

41. I hesitated to post it.

For fear of offending and being
criticized, so I googled to ck my theory and bingo: they are indeed much more likely to be Christian rightwingers.

Per Pew Research:

[Boomer]

32. I'm also out of step with my age cohort

Age 65, skeptical of patriotism, religions and have no kids.

[get the red out]

43. Sounds like me

I hear ya!

[defacto7]

15. and may be why the right wing is trying to seize control

from the emerging generations.

[Hortensis]

16. Important to note this doesn't mean NO values, but rather

different manifestations of values. And it's not at all just their response to some parents' strongly negative reactions to rampant, scary change; rather, it's far more a positive adjustment to and acceptance of reality.

Today's young people are born into and become part of communities that stretch around the planet, not just their home towns. Of course more see themselves also as citizens of the world. It doesn't eliminate loyalty-type patriotism in those prone to it but certainly helps combat excessive patriotism, while expanding scope for caring.

Old-fashioned religion's remained overly strong in our country considering mankind's state of knowledge. More information means less need for religion to explain what's hidden in the darkness. And morality exists independent of religion and is stronger when approached via the reason of our age than through the blind, reactionary faith some cling to. So some diminishing of religion's power was inevitable, even without the corruption of religion by political partisanship.

Children? No longer economic necessities or religiously mandated for the vast majority, but enormously expensive in both dollars and opportunity costs. Many young people have never had such a range of wonderful opportunities that must be traded for parenthood, and others are having more trouble supporting even themselves than we did. Younger generations are rightfully seeing parenthood as a choice they need to decide on. Rather than a moral duty to god and society, or most often just what everyone like them does, children are luxuries or necessities depending on what one wants from life.

We progress, even if it sometimes involves taking several steps back.

[GulfCoast66]

18. One of the best post I have read recently.

Thank you.

[keithbvadu2]

22. Religious support for Trump shows the hypocrisy of Christians.

Religious support for Trump shows the hypocrisy of Christians.

Why would younger folks consider religion a valid set of beliefs?

[bitterross]

23. The Republicans have been jamming all that down peoples throats and they're sick of it.

Who can blame them? We have this obsession with war and military displays. We have this obsession with over-populating the already over-populated planet and we have this obsession with mythology from 2,000 years ago that hardly anyone actually follows. No matter how often they go to church or claim to be pious.

In short, the Republicans have pushed values that are not attractive or are just plain old dumb. Of course the younger generation is abandoning them.

[calimary]

24. If I were that age now, I'm not sure I'd want kids.

What kind of planet will they have? Will it even be habitable for them all?

[bronxiteforever]

26. GOP is climate change denial, deficits, mass shootings,

Kids in cages, Jesus was a Republican evangelicals, war on science, anti health care, college debt slaveowner billionaire Betsy Devos.
A successful political platform for super villains, not so much for the rest of the Nation’s young.

[bucolic_frolic]

28. These are movements away from

exploitation. People want control of their own lives. Trends like these produce home enterpreneurship, self-sufficiency, freedom, and independence.

[TalenaGor]

29. thank goodness....

there might be hope...

[guillaumeb]

30. So the obvious solution for the GOP is.....

to stop these younger voters from voting at all.

[AlexSFCA]

31. younger generation values equality and science more than religion

and with RCC being exposed to be little more than a criminal child abuse organization, it is no surprise.

[mountain grammy]

34. Kind of gives me hope.

But when my 31 year old daughter said when my generation is gone, racism will be gone I told her I said the same thing to my mom. I am hopeful that they'll abandon religion. It's smothering us.

[roamer65]

35. Children are expensive.

The 18-38’s are seeing the benefits of not having them.

[virgogal]

37. They will wish they had them in

their later years.I am in my 80s,had 6,and don’t know what I would do without them at this time in my life.

[get the red out]

44. Blanket view

I am afraid that is painting child-free people with a broad brush. And there are plenty of parents who get no help from their kids as they age. People and circumstances are different.

[Tree-Hugger]

53. +1

The last people who should have kids are those who don't want kids. Too many people are fucked up emotionally due to having parents who had kids because "that's what you're supposed to do."

ETA: as a very young adult, I worked as home health and hospice aide. I can't begin to tell you the number of stories where an ailing parent was left alone by their children. One woman had twelve children and over 100 grands, great grands, and great great grands. She was still mostly alone. Having kids doesn't guarantee companionship in old age.

[Skittles]

55. I don't ever want to burden others

I know people who resent their parents' neediness

[Initech]

36. If we had to live in a country full of Proud Boys and Patriot Prayers? Fuck it.

I'll gladly choose an option where I don't have to associate myself with those groups!

[procon]

38. The Republicans can thank themselves for the

changing society. They appropriated patriotism and made it into an unrecognizable policy of aggression, threats of war and aligned the US with lawless dictators. At the same time they cheated vets, they linked patriotism to militant white power, rightwing domestic terrorists, and bellicose fringe religious groups urging global war and destruction. There is no redeeming reason for claiming to be patriotic.

Likewise religion has been bastardized and shrunken down to something unrecognizable as the teachings of Jesus Christ. Instead, Republicans have promoted a false religion as the one and only true faith, endorsed by the government and promoted by the GOP, it is based on self serving greed and the aquisition of money and processions that would even make a Ferengi blush. The religion favored by Republicans is white, wealthy and politically aligned with rightwing tropes. Who would want to join that club?

Republicans have no interest in children except as pitiful props that are useful in fundraising schemes to enrich themselves. Living children do not fair well under Republican rule where they are routinely denied food, shelter, medical care and an education. Children are killed, abused, treated inhumanely and denied opportunities for a better future because Republicans make policies to ensure this practice continues. It's hard enough to nurture a child without Republicans working to make their lives worse.

[Joe941]

39. Having kids is questionable with global warming.

[Permanut]

40. Encouraging news..

Maybe there's hope for the human race.

[ronharold]

42. dude...yeah

dude? yes.

[obamanut2012]

45. And those of us who are Gen Xers are not mentioned again!

This is hysterically funny, because it keeps happening!

[Bettie]

48. I'm starting to think we don't exist

at all!

We're the ghost generation. We got that window of opportunity slammed on our fingers and then were utterly forgotten.

[obamanut2012]

49. We played by the old rules, and got slammed by the new ones

The first, and maybe last, generation who will have less than their parents.

[EllieBC]

60. That might be the most accurate description of us ever.

You know why we get forgotten? The Millennials are the children of the Boomers. The most entitled generation is making sure we only hear the views of their offspring, possibly the second most entitled.

[pecosbob]

47. When the last of us Boomers dies the planet will breathe a sigh of relief.

I say good riddance to a spoiled and ungrateful generation. If the only lesson we learned from the 'greatest generation' that were our parents was that America is greatest and always right because we can kick everybody's ass, then we absolutely need to die off as soon as possible.

[Celerity]

50. I think you might find this post interesting

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287248688#post22

[pecosbob]

52. Somedays I feel the species needs a catastrophe before it can focus on what's important.

I know Aristotle complained about the young of his age, their lack of focus and respect for the institutions of society. It's probably an ingrained human trait since we haven't been able to make the young listen to their elders even after attempting to do so for the last few millenia.

Our grandparents and great grandparents went through the great depression and learned it's lessons. Our parents fought the rise of international fascism and learned those lessons. We were taught to defend the world from domination by communism, only that turned out to be a load of horseshit...and yes, I served. We discovered that it was all about commerce and profits, and that's the lesson the boomers learned.

I for one believe it's time for a return to idealism. Educators...

[Skittles]

56. speak for yourself

[get the red out]

59. +1

As a very liberal 50-something I agree.