Deutsche Bank loans to Trump co-signed by Russian Oligarchs.

[lapfog_1]

on Lawrence O'Donnel... but not second sourced yet

[amuse bouche]

1. Ain't that a kicker? Makes sense too

[olegramps]

199. An established businessman is a dead beat credit risk when they need a cosigner for loan approval.

The cosigners in this case are very suspect and I don't doubt they had to put up well backed collateral for approval.

[onecaliberal]

2. Saw it. Flood gates are about to open.

[bitterross]

118. Wonder what he'll tweet, who he'll attack to divert attention?

The gates will open and then he'll do something to divert attention again. To get that story off the front page.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

142. We need to all just look away from his diversion

[Ingersollman]

185. He will

probably nuke a hurricane...or something.

[True Blue American]

204. Nah, Trump is telling

Them to take land away, forget the environment, he will pardon them to get his wall built!

[onecaliberal]

208. He's deporting children who almost certainly will die without the life saving treatment they're

Receiving here.

[backtoblue]

3. K & R

[H2O Man]

4. Recommended.

[Me.]

14. Now That It's Been Said, It's Such An Obvious Answer

I'm smacking myself in the head.

[H2O Man]

18. Right.

I think that David Corn and Michael Isikoff hinted at this before, but events move so quickly, I have forgotten exactly what they've said.

I'm going to speculate that this reporting will upset Trump. Just my opinion. (grin)

[Me.]

112. Ya Think

[H2O Man]

134. I could be wrong.

But I've got a feeling the rest of the week will be curious.

[triron]

76. Yet Rachel Maddow seemed floored by this. She couldn't guess this or what?

[not_the_one]

93. Rachel did not mention the loans were co-signed by the russkies

I watched Rachel (as I do nightly).

She DID ask the question of WHY Deutsche would loan billions to turdface when no one else would. The implication was SOMEONE wanted the loans approved. She did not mention that Russian oligarchs were the co-signers.

[Jane Austin]

103. She didn't know ab out it yet.

O'Donnell didn't report it until the handoff from Rachel - after her show was over.

[triron]

114. Lawrence told her.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

216. Don't forget that Anthony Kennedy's son

worked for Deutsche Bank during those years.

[Me.]

115. Sometimes The Easiest/Most Obvious Answer

is the hardest one to see

[dlk]

5. It's a No-Brainer, if You Think About It

Trump’s behavior has been saying as much since the beginning.

[Raster]

11. but of course... many of us have been saying this FOR YEARS

[lapfog_1]

170. remember that trump said any investigation into his financial documents

or those of his family would be a "red line" for the Mueller investigation???

[dlk]

202. And We Know Why...

[Roland99]

6. His tweet...

Link to tweet

[Hoyt]

89. There might be other documents, but don't think tax returns would show that.

[Indykatie]

125. That Was My First Thought Too About the Lack of Co-Signer Info In Tax Documents BUT

I re-read Lawrence's tweet. He says the source is close to Deutsche Bank. That person could/would have access to both Trump's taxes and loan documents.

[Hoyt]

127. I hope. But, we need more than a "close source." But, I'm not

discounting the possibilities.

[Lock him up.]

162. Sandi Bachom followed the case, was in the courtroom & took notes (THREAD)

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Hoyt]

187. Well, there should be tape of that because I heard audio of lawyers telling judge why DB couldn't

say whether they had tax returns.

I hope it's true. But we've heard a hundred of these "it's over" things in the last two years, only to have them evaporate.

[Roland99]

196. +1

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Watching this - If true, it explains everything.

[oasis]

8. Lawrence O'donnell is putting it all out there.

[empedocles]

55. Exclusive, single source, scoop. Yea Lawrence!

Did the overlap with Rachel nicely to hold her audience.

traitortrump's biggest secret.

No ambiguity at all.

Can you feel the ripples through top 'con circles?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

9. "Russian billionaires close to putin"

Lawrence just said.

[triron]

80. This explains a hell of a lot. Mueller, dammit, you failed!

Then again it's probably Barr who shit all over that happening.

[empedocles]

91. Or Mueller was prepared, over his entire tenure, for some trump hack AG to

massively, aggressively cover up for the WH.

Remember, as Mueller/Pelosi, et al, remember, - during Watergate, DOJ was basically headed as a nixon law firm.

[napi21]

123. Mueller was tokld his authority did not include the Con's financial areas.

We all know Mueller sticks to the letter regarding the areas he can delve into. He didn't fail. It was out of his jurisdiction.

[IADEMO2004]

10. Mr. Fan Mr. Shit Mr. Shit Mr. Fan.

[RockRaven]

12. if true... that is a hell of a "BOOM!" (& yet won't move the needle much, deplorable are immovable)

And a very, very good reason for him not to release any tax info which included any reference to the specifics of his debts -- it could have been the bread crumbs which led reporters to this story all the sooner.

[lastlib]

102. If deplorables could be reasoned with, they wouldn't be deplorables.....

They are totalitarians at heart; in their minds, they are right about everything, no room for doubt or variance--facts that challenge their views are simply dismissed as false, regardless of the proof. Kinda like creationists.

[BigmanPigman]

13. Does this mean financial collusion with Russia?

[lapfog_1]

15. potential money laundering

The bank has been up to it's keister in Russian Oligarch money laundering... this could be another scheme

[H2O Man]

20. +1

Very good.

[BigmanPigman]

21. This should give the House some advantage in obtaining

records and info to go ahead with their investigations, right?

[lapfog_1]

23. I would think this will open the flood gates

of banking records, tax returns, all kinds of stuff

[Duppers]

167. Indeed it Should. nt

[Sneederbunk]

63. Deutche Bank has already been nailed for money laundering.

[lapfog_1]

68. yes... they have paid millions or billions

in fines for this.

But not with Trump loans... not until now maybe.

[Me.]

17. YES!

noun
noun: collusion
1. secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.
"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

synonyms: conspiracy, connivance, complicity, intrigue, plotting, secret understanding, collaboration, scheming

"there has been collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups"

[H2O Man]

22. !!!

[lapfog_1]

26. Claire McCaskill just said that Trump should be more worried about loan documents

than the tax returns... Lying on loan documents is fraud.

[RockRaven]

33. I bet if one compared his tax returns to his loan documents, there would be discrepancies which

are absolutely irreconcilable, in a manner which meant he either committed a fraud from column A or a fraud from column B. Or, of course, possibly both.

[lapfog_1]

57. fraud or tax evasion

or both.

[kentuck]

121. Although he has a sick mind...

...he still has more of a criminal mind, in my opinion.

[uponit7771]

75. +1

[dflprincess]

16. We can't be that surprised by this

I'm not the only one who has said Spanky sucks up to Putin because he's afraid Vlad will tell the oligarchs to call the loans in.

[lapfog_1]

19. Not at all surprised... but proof is much more disturbing than speculation

[napi21]

126. Proof on this deal is quite easy. The loan docs in Deutsche Bank will show the Con's

signature AND any co-signers. The crime, IMO is that he didn't release the info in his personal finances when he filed them during his campaign.

[JHB]

193. And THAT crime can and should be laid at the feet of the Republican party

Not just on the sTrumpets, either. Romney's wilted-fig-leaf disclosure in 2012 -- and the party leadership's endorsement of it -- paved the way for Trump blowing it off entirely.

[Disaffected]

137. How can a cosigner

call a loan in? Is that not something only the lender could do?

[lapfog_1]

172. so a co-signer (in this case) could ALSO be the source of the funds

Persons A through K deposit large sums of dirty money into a bank willing to look the other way.

Person T (the patsy) goes to the same bank and says "I want to borrow a billion dollars" and, btw, here are a list of people willing to co-sign the loan, all of which have a lot of assets.

Bank says (wink and a nod)... sure thing, here is your money... and here is the interest and repayment (very low, very lax).

now Person T has a large amount of cash to go invest in real estate or something... the real estate is an asset valued at whatever Person B says he paid for it.. and, who knows, maybe it is worth that much.

The co-signers of the loan agreement will have first dibs on those deeds and titles... and they can then turn around and go to OTHER BANKS and say, see, I have this deed to this property that I and my partner just purchased... please loan me X million dollars to be deposited in YOUR bank which I will use for whatever. Bank B says... ok, that looks fine, we don't need to see the source of your the money you used to purchase this property as there is NO lean against it, only a promissory note to repay it.

see, money from criminal source is now all clean and tidy... and no taxes were ever paid on any of it, not only that, but whatever payments made to the shady bank in the forms of interest can be deducted from your taxes (especially true for real estate deals by developers). Person T makes out like a bandit just on the tax avoidance alone.

[FakeNoose]

190. Love this explanation - more DUers need to see it

Please make a separate thread so DUers can read your analysis.
It's very clear and concise. It gets to the heart of Chump's problem.

[lapfog_1]

192. here it is, better than I can explain it

[lapfog_1]

195. and its not like this would be the first time Trump did this sort of thing

Fred Trump repeatedly bailed out his son Donald with "a spigot of loans" he never paid back, the Times found. This particular deal jumped off the page as something Leo Getz might do:

By 1987, for example, Donald Trump’s loan debt to his father had grown to at least $11 million. Yet canceling the debt would have required Donald Trump to pay millions in taxes on the amount forgiven. Father and son found another solution, one never before disclosed, that appears to constitute both an unreported multimillion-dollar gift and a potentially illegal tax write-off.

In December 1987, records show, Fred Trump bought a 7.5 percent stake in Trump Palace, a 55-story condominium building his son was erecting on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Most, if not all, of his investment, which totaled $15.5 million, was made by exchanging his son’s unpaid debts for Trump Palace shares, records show.

Four years later, in December 1991, Fred Trump sold his entire stake in Trump Palace for just $10,000, his tax returns and financial statements reveal. Those documents do not identify who bought his stake. But other records indicate that he sold it back to his son.
No doubt Fred took a tax deduction for the loss. Leo Getz would approve.

[dflprincess]

213. Thank you

Far more detailed & understandable explanation than I would have been able to give.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

177. Failure to pay back Russian loans does not end well.

Oligarchs like these are not merciful or forgiving. They go after the children first, then the parents, then save the Best for last as the pets are tortured too.

Trump needs to beef up his personal security or sleep with one eye open.

[Glimmer of Hope]

24. Please let this play out. Someone just leak already!!!!!

[rzemanfl]

25. K and fucking R. n/t

[njhoneybadger]

27. Holy Shit, this could be big

[lapfog_1]

32. big enough to make the Orange Shit Stain

resign soon... I hope.

I don't relish a President Pence... but he would be better than Trump... and much less chance of an actual war (I think).

[ooky]

136. He won't resign over it.

It's an embarrassment, for sure, but nothing would be done by the Republicans, as usual.

But it sure as hell explains his strange affections for the Russians.

[madaboutharry]

28. Lawrence is taunting Trump.

Lawrence is being careful “If true.....”

“Trump can clear this all up by releasing his tax returns.”

You all do know that Trump watches Lawrence O’Donnell. Think about the the meltdown Trump is having right now.

[lapfog_1]

36. Possibly, but MSNBC policy is to not report something

from a single source unless THEIR people scoop the story (which almost never happens).

So this one is single sourced.

[triron]

119. So Lawrence blew that off?

[lapfog_1]

124. no, he kept saying "IF this proves to be true"

which is skating close to the edge.

IF it proves to NOT be true, he may be in some trouble.

[triron]

138. I am aware.

[shanti]

158. Not sure he would put his neck out

if it wasn't true. He's a principled journo.

[mr_lebowski]

29. I've suspected all along that the reason Deutsche was so freely loaning Trump money

Is because it was dirty Russian money in the first place. These loans were taking place during the time period for which they were later investigated and fined BIG bucks ... for handling dirty Russian money.

Russians kept Trump afloat with these loans, and now he owes them big time.

But if it's proven that in fact people close to Putin actually co-signed for these loans? OMFG.

If this doesn't lead to his impeachment due to being COMPLETELY compromised by our enemies ... this country has NO fucking soul left whatsoever.

[Docreed2003]

88. Amen brother!

[lastlib]

113. Well, we KNOW McTurdle and his band of evil GOPhers have no soul....

McTurdle sold his out to the wholly-owned Russian subsidiary NRA (and thereby to Putin). The rest sold theirs to the Kochs.

[DENVERPOPS]

200. And don't forget

And don't forget all the millions funneled from his wife's Chinese oligarch parents to Mitchie and other senate repubs for their campaigns...

"Most thoroughly corrupt political party in the history of our nation" one person said recently. Succinct and dead on accurate.....

With absolutely NO respect for Rule of Law, Republicans have also become a truly fascist party, with several "front men" as fascist dictators..........

WASF

[lanlady]

176. WP had a story yesterday (Aug 27) about Deutsche Bank hiring the children of Russian officials

to work in its European branches. The information came from our SEC, which is filling a compliant.

I'll try to find a link to the article later. But this is HUGE. DB is a dirty bank riddled with links to Russian money launderers and crooks. If there are Russian names on his loan documents, Trump is toast.

[yaesu]

30. I've always believed that tRump was involved with money laundering with putin and D bank. nt

[Duppers]

168. Same here.

It was the most obvious assumption.

[FM123]

31. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if his co-signers turned out to be Russian oligarchs.

Funny thing, I remember a while back reading that Justin Kennedy (Justice Anthony Kennedy's son) was the global head of the real estate capital markets division of Deutsche Bank at the time they loaned trump the loans...

https://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-kennedy-son-loaned-president-trump-over-a-billion-dollars-2018-6

[tanyev]

50. Yes, I'd like to know more about Kennedy's rather unexpected decision to retire.

[empedocles]

65. There was a lot of speculation at the time about Justice kennedy's role,

timing, etc. with the trumpsters.

It may take a while, but it will come out in the coming months.

[The Liberal Lion]

34. Hell trump already told us he was getting his money from Russia

[lapfog_1]

41. Shit Stain junior said it... to a sports reporter

no official record of it, or how much. The numbers will be eye bugging. Not to mention the terms (no interest, no repayment to the Bank, etc) That is what we are going to hear.

[spanone]

35. Impeach MF45

[kentuck]

37. Compromised, all along?

No one should be surprised.

[House of Roberts]

38. Trump has been whining for weeks,

that the Fed needs to lower interest rates. These loans are likely to save millions in interest if the Fed does that.

[lapfog_1]

51. Wanna take a bet on the interest rate on these

Oligarch backed loans... I bet the interest is minimal at best. Repayment terms will be very favorable to the borrowers. This is likely money laundering...

Think about the drug money laundering as explained in the movies:

https://financialtransparency.org/lethal-weapon-2-explains-money-laundering/

[House of Roberts]

96. The Russians probably provided the money to loan to Trump.

I doubt his rate is below market, he's likely paying pretty high just to get loans at all.
Deutsche Bank is just the conduit, which is how the money is getting laundered.

[oasis]

39. Explains why Rex Tillerson, Gen.Flynn and Paul Manafort were hired.

[volstork]

40. Of course they were.

That POS is compromised up to his beady little eyes.

[Stuart G]

42. K and R

Looks like, "We ain't seen nothing yet."

[tanyev]

43. Literal AND figurative golden showers, then.

[DENVERPOPS]

201. Perfect call

That is Perfect LOL Tanyev

[sheshe2]

44. And there it is.

They own his fat ass.

Lock. Stock. And Barrel.

[crazytown]

59. And Anthony Kennedy's son did the risk assessment at Deutsche

'Corporations are people my friend'

[sheshe2]

66. I remember that.

I remember it well when Anthony sold his SC seat to trump. Was that to secure a pardon for his son when it all comes down?

[crazytown]

74. I am not sure he kid broke any law,

but what is clear as day is Justice Kennedy knew Trump was owned by the Kremlin. And he knew that when equating money with speech in Citizen's United - which, never forget, was aimed at HRC.

[uponit7771]

79. He might have if he knew Red Don was lying about his net worth. Red Don is KNOWN to lie about

... any damn thing relating to money before he became president so I can't see the financial world saying "I didn't know".

[sheshe2]

92. It is just so complicated.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

[C_U_L8R]

45. Oligarch. Isn't that a fancy word for the Russian mob?

And Trump said he has no business with Russia. I foresee a hasty exit to Moscow.

[tanyev]

58. They've got no use for an obnoxious crybaby ex-president.

[Kid Berwyn]

46. Explains the private conversations with Putin.

Money laundering Deutsche Bank employed ex-Justice Anthony Kennedy’s good son who approved $1 billion in loans to King Con.

[procon]

47. Until the bank turns over the actual loan documents

With Russian signatures, this is still conjecture. The Dems can't move on impeachment without hard, irrefutable evidence against trump. If they exist and if the Dems can successfully subpoena them, only then they can go after Trump.

[empedocles]

69. Prudent Dems do not want this to be all exposed tomorrow. Steady inundation

of revelations over the coming months are needed instead.

[uponit7771]

81. +1, this needs and deserves patience

[donkeypoofed]

48. Well isn't that interesting!?! It explains so much!!!

[klook]

49. Hugely significant.

How will Republicans try to normalize this? Are we supposed to believe that getting loans co-signed by Russian mobsters is routine???

Looking forward to hearing David Cay Johnston’s take on this!!

[UniteFightBack]

52. This orange shit stain must be destroyed and then bleached. nt

[vlyons]

53. Well surprise surprise

*snark* Haven't we all known all along that Donnie Dipshit has been laundering Russian mob money since forever?

[Ilsa]

54. Let's hope he's so pissed that he drags the rest of

the Republucan shit stains down with him. Maybe he offered some of them a piece of the action.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

56. His Orangeness' next tweetstorm should be interesting.

[lapfog_1]

61. I bet he never even tweets about this...

he has a completely new legal team just for Deutsche Bank.

[empedocles]

73. traitortrump will not sleep well tonight

[Roland99]

60. Interesting quote from Donald tRump Jr in 2008 about Russia....

https://www.eturbonews.com/9788/executive-talk-donald-trump-jr-bullish-russia-and-few-emerging-ma/

However, to a certain degree, some US investors have had concerns over Russia. “Well, that’s happening, too. After spending half a dozen trips to Russia in the last 18 months, several buyers have been attracted to our projects there and everything associated therewith. But it is definitely not an issue of being able to find a deal – but an issue of ‘Will I ever see my money back out of that deal or can I actually trust the person I am doing the deal with?’ As much as we want to take our business over there, Russia is just a different world. Though the legal structure is in place for what we have today, and even 99 percent is covered, that 1 percent not covered could be 100 percent covered over there because it is a question of who knows who, whose brother is paying off who, etc.,” Trump said, adding, “It really is a scary place.”

[backtoblue]

62. Wasn't this afternoon the deadline for Deutsch Bank

to give the court MF45's tax records they had?

I think that includes the offspring as well.



MF45 is likely shitting himself

[lapfog_1]

67. If this story is confirmed

Apparently a judge is looking at these loan documents right now to see if they represent "something of significance to the House Oversight committee". Indications are pointing to "yes" right now.

Again, all single sourced, so take with a grain of salt. We have seen the Shit Stain skate on obvious problems before.

His base won't even hold him accountable for this even if he and his family all walked into a bank wearing masks and took the money out in garbage bags... they f'ing wouldn't care.

[Stuart G]

71. "If this story is confirmed" is that the end of Trump? Maybe, maybe not.

How will it get confirmed? Congress can order the records to be declassified. Or can it?

[uponit7771]

83. Congress can subpoena the bank loan documents which DB will "lose" quickly. They don't want to

... get caught up with Red Don's crap either.

[empedocles]

72. 4p this afternoon to admit possession of the tax, etc., records.

At which time Akin Gump did duly admit Deutsch has said possessions.

[ffr]

64. Dig. Dig. Dig. Drip. Drip. Drip.

Someone leak the shit so this house of cards comes tumbling down.

[bucolic_frolic]

70. I guess Deutsche Bank was different from ReichsBank?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank

Not a lot under World War II history.

"1933–1945

After Adolf Hitler came to power, instituting the Third Reich, Deutsche Bank dismissed its three Jewish board members in 1933. In subsequent years, Deutsche Bank took part in the aryanization of Jewish-owned businesses; according to its own historians, the bank was involved in 363 such confiscations by November 1938.[21] During the war, Deutsche Bank incorporated other banks that fell into German hands during the occupation of Eastern Europe. Deutsche Bank provided banking facilities for the Gestapo and loaned the funds used to build the Auschwitz camp and the nearby IG Farben facilities.[22]

During World War II, Deutsche Bank became responsible for managing the Bohemian Union Bank in Prague, with branches in the Protectorate and in Slovakia, the Bankverein in Yugoslavia (which has now been divided into two financial corporations, one in Serbia and one in Croatia), the Albert de Barry Bank in Amsterdam, the National Bank of Greece in Athens, the Creditanstalt-Bankverein in Austria and Hungary, the Deutsch-Bulgarische Kreditbank in Bulgaria, and Banca Comercială Română (The Romanian Commercial Bank) in Bucharest. It also maintained a branch in Istanbul, Turkey.

In 1999, Deutsche Bank confirmed officially that it had been involved in Auschwitz.[22] In December 1999 Deutsche, along with other major German companies, contributed to a US$5.2 billion compensation fund following lawsuits brought by Holocaust survivors.[23][24] The history of Deutsche Bank during the Second World War has since been documented by independent historians commissioned by the Bank.[21] "

[empedocles]

107. Perspective. Thank you.

[RainCaster]

77. I'm waiting for the WaPo & NY Times headlines

I have a number of Trumpanzee acquaintances, and I will rub their noses in it.

[Stuart G]

84. I checked a few minutes ago, none as of 10:51 ET.

[empedocles]

94. This will take a while to trickle down - to be appreciated for the big scandal that it is.

[Princetonian]

78. I'll bet Chump does not tweet about this.

0. Deutsche Bank loans to Trump co-signed by Russian Oligarchs.
on Lawrence O'Donnell... but not second sourced yet

[uponit7771]

90. +1

[silverweb]

82. Individual #1 has earned a new nickname.

I'm calling him "Dacha Don" from now on. A dacha is a country home or estate in Russia - and Donny does have a love for his "country estates" (aka golf clubs and Mar a Lago).

My guess is that there's a dacha awaiting his exile in Russia if he successfully flees the U.S. after being deposed by a Democratic president - maybe as soon as the Democrat is the projected winner. You know he's not going to stick around for prosecution if he can help it.

[uponit7771]

85. +1, Red Don will take his daughter/lover and leave the rest of his family behind to go to Russia

[silverweb]

86. Very likely.

I don't know about the rest of the family, but we already know he thinks only about himself.

On edit: I like "Dacha Don" because of the alliteration, like "Moscow Mitch."

[empedocles]

97. Can putin be relied upon to provide a suitable, safe haven? How would

that be guaranteed?

[silverweb]

155. I don't think Pootie-Poot can be trusted.

But Dacha Don seems to think he can. Let him bank his future on that.

[smirkymonkey]

87. K&R

[Stuart G]

95. What if Trump denies this?.. Will there be proof one way or another?

[napi21]

120. Bank documents signed by the Con and co-signed by the Ruskies. All original docs,

mandated for the loan, and absolutely some of the docs the Bank is trying to protect.

[empedocles]

98. Be interesting to see how various fox people and rw media handle this

Now the spectre of 'treason' begins to . . . loom . . .

[kentuck]

100. If true, this makes Benedict Arnold look like an amateur....

Last edited Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:46 PM - Edit history (1)

And all the people that have helped cover it up?

[empedocles]

104. Crucial to get big majorities everywhere in 2020.

Could then do some serious repair work on the 'con destructivenesses.

[kentuck]

109. If this is true, I don't see how they rationalize their support?

And it may be true? Since day one, he has acted as if he is compromised to Russia and Vladimir Putin.

Trump has acted as if he knew this story was going to break. Perhaps he has already been briefed about it? Who knows?

[captain queeg]

99. I guess this makes more sense than pee pee tapes.

Not to say it’s not both. But I suspect lots of repugs have benefited from the oligarchs.

[empedocles]

101. NRA funneling $ to 'con Members for example.

We may see, before long, some interesting 'flippers' - serious crimes can energize the conspiracy law nets.

[Totally Tunsie]

105. Oh please, dear God, let this be true!

I'm wonderfully excited at the prospect of the layers of this onion getting peeled day by day. What a fabulous ride this may be, if confirmed.

Beginnings, beginnings...

[Bayard]

106. I had thoughts along this line awhile back....

Then said---no, no, no. That can't be it. Did Lawrence say his source was someone from the bank? (I was trying hard not to fall asleep).

I loved Rachel's dumbstruck reaction!

[lapfog_1]

108. Not sure he mentioned the original source... I didn't hear it

but it sounded like some of this is from leaked court documents?

[kentuck]

111. I thought I heard him say that the source was connected to Deutsche Bank?

Anybody hear him say something different or additional?

[Me.]

117. A Source Close To The Bank

is what I think he said

[kentuck]

122. Very well could have been.

I'm fairly sure I heard him mention the Bank.

[Doodley]

110. If this is confirmed, that's the end of Trump (or maybe the end of all of us).

[shanti]

160. That's my concern too

that if he goes down, he takes us with him.

[murielm99]

173. That is why the truth may be revealed slowly.

First, it has to be verified without any doubt. Then, it may have to be resolved after he is out of office and has no power to turn us into a smoldering cinder.

I worry about this all the time, too. If I die, it is no big deal. I will be seventy-one in a few days. But the rest of the world and everything in it deserves better.

[napi21]

116. That sure would answer a lot questions: why is the Con so buddy, buddy with Puty?

why is the Con always defending Russia? what to the Ruskies have on him? lso Why is Deutsche Bank fighting so hard not to release the info they have on the Con?

The unanswered question is "Who is Lawrence's source?

[Beartracks]

128. Trump seriously compromised

[harumph]

129. money laundering - some of us already figured that was going on.

not surprised. at all.

[Duppers]

130. Thought This was already known.

Now just confirmed.

[dalton99a]

131. Kick

[Takket]

132. Tomorrow drumpf will say

He has business deals all over the world and it isn’t s crime to do business with Russia. This will vanish from the front pages in an instant.

[lapfog_1]

146. he said in the campaign "no dealings with Russians"

and it's not the fact that he did have them co-sign.. it's where the money came from and whether it was reported, and what documents were signed about any property or assets put up to do the loan and the value of same, and what the money was spent on, repayment interest and schedule.

[kentuck]

152. Right! Why did he lie about it?

He and the Russians knew something that the American people did not know. They knew their business dealings. What would you call that, other than compromised?

[Lock him up.]

159. Kompromat n/t

[ffr]

133. Here's some of the exchange between RM and LO

[Mr.Bill]

135. Call me cynical,

but nothing will happen. Nothing.

[JI7]

139. He needs to be exposed 100 percent

i want everything he has done to come out.

[Pepsidog]

140. Just another bomb that will be ignored and forgotten ina week or two.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

141. Holy effin Cow. !!!!!!!

[Aaron Pereira]

143. Seems worthy of an election year investigation by house dems.

Use your power Dems. Hold him accountable.

[Duppers]

169. In the context of Impeachment hearings, we hope.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

144. This would be a framework for money laundering too. . . . nt

[DesertRat]

145. If it's what you say, I love it

[lapfog_1]

148. I see what you did there

thread winner!!!

[DesertRat]

151. ...

[Laura PourMeADrink]

147. Mueller couldn't figure this out?.?

[lapfog_1]

150. not in the scope of his investigation

plus the bank and Trump's lawyers have been stalling this many many months

[Laura PourMeADrink]

189. Strikes me that it would be in scope - Russian influence? The fact that

they were stalling kind of implies it's true.

[Gothmog]

149. WOW

Link to tweet

[lapfog_1]

153. So how reliable is raw story? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Gothmog]

154. Raw story is reporting what was said on The Last Word tonight

[shanti]

156. Can BK records be subpoenaed?

I wonder if the info on his BK and his returns adds up....His last one was in 2009.

[moondust]

157. Totally believable.

Weren't Russian oligarchs buying Dump's apartments and properties as far back as the 80s or 90s? Deutsche Bank was laundering Russian money, perhaps for some of the same oligarchs, so no big deal having Russian co-signers who were basically junior partners with one very wealthy Vlad.

Where is Justice Anthony Kennedy's son today and has he been subpoenaed yet?

[OnDoutside]

161. Note use of plural... OligarchS. Imagine one being Deripaska, Moscow Mitch

Will then be slathered, if more could be possible.

[keithbvadu2]

163. Eric Trump in 2014: 'We have all the funding we need out of Russia ...

Eric Trump in 2014: 'We have all the funding we need out of Russia ...

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=erik+trump+money+from+russia

[Lock him up.]

164. Sandi Bachom followed the case, was in the courtroom & took notes (TWITTER THREAD)

Starts after this:

Link to tweet

?s=20

Make a follow-up OP!!

[Pachamama]

165. His former lawyer who met behind closed doors and testified publicly

.... told us to go look at the loan docs....he knows what was on them....

I predict these will be second and third sources and once made public it will show a direct line of money flow and ties to Russian Oligarchs and Putin and that yes, Trump owes them - or rather they own him.

[Lock him up.]

171. A $2 Billion laund/komp/romat...

[Pachamama]

174. Yep....Michael Cohen knows it....

[Duppers]

166. K & R

Surmised before, evidence now.


And Rachel said she'd never thought of this before? Rachel, Rachel.

[duforsure]

175. As the light comes on , on trump and putin

Watch how fast the GOP cockroaches scatter. This is the tip of the iceberg. trump and the republican party are on the titanic.

[DeminPennswoods]

178. A big IF in there,

just remember that.

Personally, have thought from the beginning that Putin had Trump by the financial short-hairs via his oligarchs. That's why Trump cozies up to Putin/Russia. If the oligarchs have co-signed loans, that would certainly explain most, if not all, of Trump's behavior.

What really interested me was Maddow's opening segment where she showed all the children of powerful people who were hired by Deutche Bank in order for the bank to curry favor and get business from the countries of those people. Remember Justice Kennedy's son was also hired by Deutche Bank and, iirc, was a primary contact for Trump within the Deutche Bank's private banking division from which Trump got his loans. I'm curious if Kennedy's son was actually qualified for the job he got and, regardless, what Deutche Bank felt this hire could influence.

[SunSeeker]

179. "I'm shocked!"

Said nobody.

[MarkmBha1]

180. Is there ant doubt?

Trump is Putin's Puppet.

[Takket]

181. No mention of this anywhere on CNN homepage

This isn’t even registering in the rest of the MSM. Didn’t see it on ABC news site either.

[GoCubsGo]

182. Well, that would explain the latest border wall/FEMA bullshit.

Chaos rules with this asshole. Watch your wallets, America.

[klook]

183. We should not get too worked up about this until it's confirmed.

This is a single source “close to Deutsche Bank,” and only Lawrence O’Donnell has mentioned it publicly.

Lawrence included the caveat “if true” in his show last night. I’ll wait for additional information and confirmed sources before repeating it as true. The RawStory piece sheds no additional light on this, just breathlessly repeats the claim.

[BlueJac]

184. K&R

[empedocles]

186. MSM soft play on this exciting, significant breakthrough because of 'single source' so far. Its

much more than 'speculation', much less than imminent trump conviction. Rachel and Lawrence were so excited.

In the meantime, I strongly recommend - 'House of Trump/House of Putin, by Craig Unger. Extensively exposes trump, et al and many Oligarches. Detail, serious sourcing [53pp of (foot)Notes; tells us where to look.

[Or wait for cable news headlines when confirmations come in].

[SayItLoud]

188. Are you saying....

tRUMP lied?

Ha, it will not matter that what WE here all know is once again confirmed by some loan documents. Now, if there are illegal elements then that will matter. Especially as it's NYC and NYS. He'll get his pardon (and his kids) on any federal charges I'm betting and Kennedy's kid who has most likely gotten kickbacks or "free tRUMP apartments" or something illegal will also get a Federal pardon...but again NYS can get them if Barr doesn't interfere .

Just sayin...this "revelation" on the surface, so far, is beatable by tRUMP and the base could care less.

Wait for tRUMP to start the spin lies, diversion and throwing of people under his orange ass bus.

[lapfog_1]

194. Fraud will be easier to prove than obstruction or "collusion"

Collusion, as we all know, isn't a crime, conspiracy is...

However, in the financial world, fraud is easier to prove.

Donald probably inflated his assets to help the bank approve his loan... but the other part of the leak stated that Donald paid almost zero income tax... most likely by declaring losses to offset any real estate gains he made, most like using the same properties that he told the bank about.

Either way (or possibly both) he either committed fraud on the loan docs or tax evasion with the IRS. Those facts will be very difficult to explain away (no doubt Faux will try).

The last bit is what was the origin of the money loaned to Trump... yes, it was in the bank... but the bank has already paid over $600M in fines for money laundering... so here is how this may have worked... Oligarchs need to launder a few $B... a group of them, close to Putin. The money is dirty. But they have a bank willing to look the other way, so they deposit the money... they get their patsy (Trump) to borrow the money... only on his own there isn't any way he could qualify... so the Oligarchs co-sign the loans (essentially having Trump borrow THEIR money back from the bank, minus the usual bank fees). Now that their Patsy has the "clean money" he can invest it in whatever, using a few dummy corporations. The deeds that are acquired in these purchase transactions pass through the dummy corp to... ta da... the Oligarchs that co-signed the loans... They don't even have to sell the properties... they can simply use the deeds and titles with Legitimate banks to borrow the money... CLEAN money... that they can spend anywhere in the west.

It's only a slight variation of this:

[Lock him up.]

197. TADA. It's that easy to trick the international banking system...

Corrupt All The Way

[lapfog_1]

198. Not all that easy... but if you have a small army of lawyers

and enough money to spread around... and a bank that seems to be corrupt as Deutsche Bank...

I'm wondering why anybody in the West does any business with them.

That said, I just took a small withdrawal from my 401K... and the check came from... drum roll.. Deutche Bank... I cashed it as soon as I could.

[calimary]

191. My first thought when I watched the transition from Rachel to Lawrence O last night

was “is this the beginning of the end?”

Hopefully...

[Sneederbunk]

203. We need oligarch(s) names.

[lapfog_1]

205. redacted seems to be a popular name

you can bet Deripaska (sp?) is there... and a bunch of other crooks and Putin pals...

"The usual suspects" is a phrase that comes to mind.

[empedocles]

206. For the Russian names and relationships - see Craig Unger

Will be a guide for the entire trump/oligarch saga.

[Gothmog]

207. trump is unhappy and his attorney just sent a letter to NBC

Link to tweet

[Sneederbunk]

210. Last Word should be interesting tonight

[FBaggins]

211. Looks like he gets his wish

BREAKING: Lawrence O'Donnell pulls back on Deutsche Bank-Russia story

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12417196

[Gothmog]

212. I will be watching The Last Word tonight

Link to tweet

[RainCaster]

209. This discussion is missing on his website (MSNBC)

[Joe941]

214. This is so HUGE! Start impeachment now!

[PatrickforO]

215. You saw O'Donnell walked it back though.

I'm not sure I'm buying the 'I was premature' deal though. I think O'Donnell was on the money and someone higher up told him to ix-nay on the story.

[lapfog_1]

217. pretty much

Trump lawyers threatened to sue...and MSNBC doesn't have the balls to say "go ahead... see you in court"...

Of course Trump could always tell the bank to make the loan documents, declaration of assets, tax returns, etc public... I wonder why he didn't do that?

[PatrickforO]

218. Indeed. Why, then we'd all find out his financials are as pure as the driven snow.

Easy fix.