You know, it's really quite a phenomenon.

[LuckyCharms]

I have a narcissistic family member (actually, a couple of them).

They physically cannot get the words "I'm sorry", or "I was wrong" out of their mouths.

I had one situation where I was obviously owed a deep apology. I think the family member recognized that, and knew that most people would apologize in this situation, so they tried to say "I'm sorry"...not because they were sorry, but because they knew that to appear to be normal, they needed to say it.

So they tried to say it, and all that came out after they said my name was "well...you know...I....you know....". They actually could not form the word. Really quite amazing.

The other one will not admit they were wrong about something even if you show them proof that can not be disputed.

I can't wrap by head around this kind of disorder, because I've fucked up so many times and said I was sorry, it's just second nature. When you are wrong, just say you were wrong, apologize, and move on to the next crisis. These people, like Trump, just cannot do it.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Just like The Fonz...

[LuckyCharms]

2. LMAO...that's a bit how it was when they to say it.

[Siwsan]

3. My mother was someone who felt she was never wrong, and never apologized. Until the end

In a very brief return to lucidity, during her battle with Alzheimer's, she actually apologized for a number of decisions that made the rest of our lives quite difficult. It was shocking but very much appreciated.

[LuckyCharms]

6. I'm glad that you received the apologies.

I'm struggling with this issue now. I've been "no contact" with these family members for years. I've erased them not because I wanted to, but because it was the only way to stop them from injuring me further mentally.

The day will come when either me or them will die. I have no idea how all of that will play out.

[OMGWTF]

20. My mother's unapologetic horrible behavior sent me into therapy

and after seeing her emails and hearing the stories of how she destroyed our family with malicious lies (I brought my husband to the first appointment to back me up) my therapist told me to cut her out of my life. She said to ignore her emails, phone calls, etc. and gave me four excellent pieces of advice that changed my life immediately: 1) Separate facts from your feelings; 2) Stay out of people's heads because you can never really know what's going on; 3) allow time to grieve the loss of the relationship; and 4) if anyone asks "why are you ignoring your mother?" reply: "I'm just taking a break." Well, I've been on a break for six years and I'm off my BP meds and living my dream life with people I love and respect. Her siblings know who she is but are too intimitated to confront her. She has no relationship with any of her seven grandchildren and has never wanted to meet her two great-grandchildren because they are half-black.

Every once in a while Mommy Dearest reaches out to me, always acting like nothing happened, but my mental health is more important than making this unapologetic psycho bitch from Hell feel better, so I will continue to ignore her. BTW she is a Talibangelist/End-timer and hides her evil deeds behind her "Christianity".

[Schmice3]

40. very sad but I understand and can relate n/t

[SWBTATTReg]

41. Thanks for sharing your story with us. It isn't easy to share these kinds of stories with others,

but you are helping others that need to hear these stories so it will help them too, out of their situations that may or may not be similar. Take care.

[Permanut]

4. Say, are you in my family?

Sounds like a couple of people in my family. I'm 73 years old, and I've given up on ever seeing these people take responsibility for the damage they've done.

[LuckyCharms]

7. I'm sorry to hear this because...

I know exactly how you feel. It's horrible.

[Pacifist Patriot]

5. Yep, I've seen that myself.

It is truly bizarre to watch. Three syllables and they physically cannot wrench them from their mouths.

[LuckyCharms]

8. It's really hard for people who are not that way...

to understand it. In my softer moments, I try to view it as a mental illness rather than them just being an asshole. But I don't know...I understand some mental illness because I've struggled with major depression and anxiety. But that has never made me want to harm anyone or fuck them over. In fact, it has made me a better person...more empathetic.

But I know that all mental illnesses cannot be lumped into the same category. It's all so difficult to get a handle on.

[Dr Rise]

15. The difference between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder

is the ability to show/feel empathy. Sociopaths, all of them ...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. I think Trump is even farther gone than your family member.

He doesn't understand that sometimes he has to apologize to appear normal because he doesn't think he's abnormal. Your family member recognized that he'd done something that required an apology but he couldn't bring himself to say the words; Trump doesn't think he ever needs to apologize.

What's especially weird about Trump, and that seems to have left most people gobsmacked, is that he not only refuses to apologize or admit he's wrong when he makes a mistake; it's that he makes a big deal of how not wrong he was, and how wrong and stupid and fake anyone was who accused him of being wrong. He makes a federal case out of the whole thing and brings even more attention to his screw-up. The weather map business is a perfect example - if, after he first mentioned Alabama and the NWS issued a correction, he'd just said, "Oh, OK, I was mistaken, I guess Alabama isn't in danger," that would have been the end of it. But because he's the world's biggest narcissist (but the world's worst alterer of weather maps) he had to go on TV with a map he'd clumsily altered with a Sharpie, and when he was called out on that, he made up yet another lie about how there had been a 95% chance AL would be badly damaged.

That's just fucking nuts. Your family member is an amateur.

[LuckyCharms]

10. I agree with you.

I can see my family's characteristics in Trump, but it is like he magnified these characteristics exponentially, almost to the point of what a lay person would deem as insanity.

[littlemissmartypants]

23. Couldn't agree more.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12438528
Cross posting

Definition
The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) is a diagnostic tool used to rate a person's psychopathic or antisocial tendencies. People who are psychopathic prey ruthlessly on others using charm, deceit, violence or other methods that allow them to get [away] with [what] they want. The symptoms of psychopathy include: lack of a conscience or sense of guilt, lack of empathy, egocentricity, pathological lying, repeated violations of social norms, disregard for the law, shallow emotions, and a history of victimizing others.

Originally designed to assess people accused or convicted of crimes, the PCL-R consists of a 20-item symptom rating scale that allows qualified examiners to compare a subject's degree of psychopathy with that of a prototypical psychopath. It is accepted by many in the field as the best method for determining the presence and extent of psychopathy in a person.

The Hare checklist is still used to diagnose members of the original population for which it was developed— adult males in prisons, criminal psychiatric hospitals, and awaiting psychiatric evaluations or trial in other correctional and detention facilities. Recent experience suggests that the PCL-R may also be used effectively to diagnose sex offenders as well as female and adolescent offenders.

Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz5ybatqWyG

Emphasis mine.

Much more at the link.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

[Phoenix61]

11. A Narcisist has no internalized self-image.

They aren’t a being, they are a doing. If they do something wrong and admit it then they are wrong. Wrong as in shouldn’t exist wrong. Not wrong as in I’m a good person but I did something wrong. This makes them incredibly fragile. They are joyless souls who they lead a trail of pain everywhere they go. Best avoided family or not.

[erronis]

12. Another side of that is friends/family members who feel like they are to blame for everything

even if they really didn't have any part in the event.

In a way that's sort of annoying since they are assuming some actions, some responsibility, for something that they didn't expend any energy on.

Oh, well. We're all humans - the good, the bad, and the trump-like.

[LiberalArkie]

13. You know I know a lot of people who say "I am sorry" so easily that I worry that they really

don't mean it or something..

[soldierant]

32. Speaking as (probably) one of them, I have a tendency to say "I'm sorry,"

not meaning "I'm sorry for something I did wrong," but meaning," I gather you are hurting and I wish that wasn't so." If I am actually apologizing, it will include an "I was wrong," or "I did wrong" along with the "I'm sorry." Does that sound at all familiar?

[robbob]

38. Here in canada

we apologize when someone bumps into US out in public. The “I’m sorry” “No I’M sorry” ritual can be quite amusing...

[smirkymonkey]

14. I am very familiar with that phenomenon. My stepmother is exactly like that.

Simply cannot utter the words. Even when she is proven 100% wrong, will never ever own up to it, and this is a highly educated, professional woman. She also has a LOT to apologize for and is completely incapable of that as well. She is one of those people that works very hard on her image. I am not ever sure there is a real person underneath it all.

[Dr Rise]

16. There is not ...

[AtheistCrusader]

17. I recognize the phenomenon as well.

Have a lot of it in my family, on my mother's side.

I note two traits in all of them. High narcissism, and low empathy.

[GreenEyedLefty]

18. Not just family members.

I am a volunteer board president for a small nonprofit. Our treasurer screwed something up royally and now we have to pay a bunch of money to fix it. When I talked to him about it, he bobbed, weaved, deflected, and shifted blame but never once admitted his screw-up. It was something to behold - up to that point I had never really pegged him as a narcissist, he certainly has features of it at a minimum - and it made him a lot less trustworthy in my eyes.

[Nasruddin]

19. I agree with this

> They physically cannot get the words "I'm sorry", or "I was wrong" out of their mouths.

Not all narcissists are bad, unredeemable people - but this is one aspect of their personalities
that it seems impossible to change.

[LiberalLovinLug]

21. I think its not just blatant narcissists, right wingers in general cannot admit mistakes

Remember W Bush when asked in a debate if he thought he had ever made a mistake? And he couldn't answer. Didn't answer. And you see this with every GOP member. When's the last time McConnell, or Graham apologized for anything?

[lagomorph777]

22. I've observed that in a family member too.

...one who has LOTS of reason to say "I'm sorry."

[littlemissmartypants]

24. It's never just one thing.

If there's narcissism there's bound to be lying and if there's lying there's denial or worse, anosognosia.
(Explained here:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/12601345)


The maxim really is true, "Nobody's perfect."


Living takes a lot of work in many forms.

Stay encouraged, LC. ❤

[Karadeniz]

25. It's because you have a soul with enough energy to outweigh the brain's ego waves.

[unblock]

26. then there's the type that is very skilled at using a manipulative apology...

it takes a while, but eventually you learn they don't mean it one bit, but they've learned it's a magic key to getting out of trouble.

how many narcissists have affairs and then "apologize" to their spouses, knowing full well it's only to get themselves out of trouble and the only thing they really regret is getting caught?

[cwydro]

27. I know about this.

My sister and my father were the same.

[Claritie Pixie]

28. There's variations too - like my ex. He would say I'm sorry BUT...

then proceed to drone on and on about how I was the one who made him react and who was at fault. Constantly turned the tables and refused to take responsibility even though he would start out saying I'm sorry.

[Nitram]

30. If possible, that's even worse.

[Nitram]

29. My mother was one. Still getting over it.

[pnwmom]

31. I had one, too. I remember telling a friend who also had a family member who was an N,

that it would have made SUCH a difference in our relationship if the person had ever been capable of saying, "I'm sorry." But it never happened. Not ever.

Of course, now I know my N was a mini-N compared to the greatest N of all.

[WhiskeyWulf]

33. My father is a textbook case of NPD.

He voted for Trump . . . I think because he found him relatable in a sick sort of way.

[ismnotwasm]

34. My Dad was one, plus a couple other things

I’m the only fully functioning adult out of three siblings. Both my brother and sister, especially my sister, have severe issues. I escaped to the streets as a kid. It was still better than living with that shit.

He died a few years back and while his death was certainly acknowledged, it was essentially unmourned.

[elleng]

35. Awful.

Can't imagine being like that, so handicapped. How could one live?

[Harker]

36. I have ex-relatives.

[milestogo]

37. I understand what you are feeling.

Me too.

[Desert_Leslie]

39. Oh Yeah.

This is so, so true -- never an apology!

My sister, malignant narcissist, cannot apologize.

She once did something egregious to me. When we spoke about it, she screamed -- (forgive the capital letters):

"MOM AND DAD ACCEPT ME AS I AM! I GUESS YOU NEVER WANT TO SEE YOUR NIECES AGAIN!!"

"AS I AM" meaning "I am a _itch. Mom and Dad know that and live with it." <sigh.>

Six weeks of blessed silence ensued.

Then my parents called and said, "Look, we agree with you on this! We know you're in the right. But Christmas is nearly here. Call her and apologize so we can have the holidays."

Folks like her ... and the Orange Stain ... keep therapists in business.

[samplegirl]

42. This is my siblings to

the tee. They are Trumpers!!!Imagine that!