California dive boat owner quickly asks judge to limit payouts to victims' families

[mfcorey1]

LOS ANGELES — The owners of the California diving boat that burned during a Labor Day weekend charter near Santa Barbara, killing 34 people aboard, have turned to a 19th century maritime law to argue they should not have to pay any money to the families of victims.

In their petition filed Thursday, attorneys for the owners of Truth Aquatics Inc., Glen Fritzler and his wife, Dana, cite an 1851 statute in asking a judge to eliminate their financial liability or lower it to an amount equal to the post-fire value of the boat, or $0.

The Conception ignited early on Monday, burned for hours and sank near the Channel Islands. It is now worthless, according to the Fritzlers’ federal court filing in the Central District of California.
The cause of the fire is under investigation. Russell Brown, an attorney representing Truth Aquatics and the Fritzlers, declined comment.

The legal motion comes as diving teams are still looking for the 34th body and investigators are interviewing surviving crew members about the deadly voyage.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-dive-boat-owner-quickly-asks-judge-to-limit-payouts-to-victims-families/ar-AAGT5Up?ocid=spartandhp

[Gothmog]

1. Maratine law is wierd

[mercuryblues]

10. This may not be covered by maritime law

The fire occurred about 20 yards offshore. Maritime Law doesn't kick in until you are 12 miles offshore. If this is covered under state laws, it is better for the families of the victims.

[jberryhill]

13. No

You might be confusing admiralty law with international conventions or some other thing.

Jerome B. Grubart, Inc. v. Great Lakes Dredge & Dock Co., 513 U.S. 527 (1995) held that the limitation act applies to a barge doing work in the Chicago River.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/513/527/

After the Chicago River flooded a freight tunnel under the river and the basements of numerous buildings, petitioner corporation and other victims brought tort actions in state court against respondent Great Lakes Dredge & Dock Co. and petitioner Chicago. They claimed that in the course of driving piles from a barge into the riverbed months earlier, Great Lakes had negligently weakened the tunnel, which had been improperly maintained by the city. Great Lakes then filed this action, invoking federal admiralty jurisdiction and seeking, inter alia, the protection of the Limitation of Vessel Owner's Liability Act. That Act would permit the admiralty court to decide whether Great Lakes had committed a tort and, if so, to limit its liability to the value of the barges and tug involved if the tort was committed without the privity or knowledge of the vessels' owner. The District Court dismissed the suit for lack of admiralty jurisdiction, but the Court of Appeals reversed.

Held: The District Court has federal admiralty jurisdiction over Great Lakes's Limitation Act suit. Pp. 531-548.

(a) A party seeking to invoke such jurisdiction over a tort claim must satisfy conditions of both location and connection with maritime activity. In applying the location test, a court must determine whether the tort occurred on navigable water or whether injury suffered on land was caused by a vessel on navigable water. 46 U. S. C. App. § 740. In applying the connection test, a court first must assess the "general features of the type of incident involved" to determine if the incident has "a potentially disruptive impact on maritime commerce." Sisson v. Ruby, 497 U. S. 358, 363, 364, n. 2. If so, the court must determine whether the character of the activity giving rise to the incident shows a substantial relationship to traditional maritime activity. Id., at 365, 364, and n. 2. Pp. 531-534.

(b) The location test is readily satisfied here. The alleged tort was committed on a navigable river, and petitioners do not seriously dispute that Great Lakes's barge is a "vessel" for admiralty tort purposes.

[Cicada]

27. Insurance company probably filed it so quickly

[Mosby]

2. Classy move.

[jberryhill]

6. By whom?

By the attorneys seeking clients at memorial services, or by the insurance company doing its job?

[fescuerescue]

9. their insurance carrier drives this

If the owners want to continue to benefit from the insurance (which they desperately need), they must comply.

The way Maritime law is structured, the owners must quickly move to sue to the victims. They don't expect money from the victims, but it's a legal move to limit liability.

Sadly it's required by the law of our land, and it's been that way for a long long time. (The owners of the Titanic did the same move)

[jberryhill]

11. Yes

Which is why I'm wondering to whom the "classy move" comment is directed.

Lawyers are showing up at funerals to engage the victims' families.

[Ms. Toad]

18. Are they showing up to engage victims' famlies?

or are they part of the dive community, who also happen to be lawyers?

The dive community is pretty tight - and I do know that attorneys in the local dive community started getting calls from victim's families immediately.

I also know that I've been at memorial services for divers as a mourner - and that people also know I'm an attorney. Because my primary area of expertise is intellectual property, I'm not likely to be asked questions at a funeral or memorial service. But I could easily see it happening, and I could also easily see a conversation I'm having with my dive buddies misconstrued by others who don't know the relationship.

I don't know the details of the interactions you are referencing - and if they are unrelated attorneys popping into memorial services looking for clients, that stinks. And I hope someone is filing a disciplinary complaint.

[jberryhill]

19. From the article

"At a memorial this week, an administrator at a personal injury law firm approached Steve Quitasol, the brother of a man who died in the fire with his three daughters and their stepmother. Laura Rosales told Quitasol that three families of victims had retained the law firm, and she urged him to meet with her."

[Ms. Toad]

30. If it's families complaining about direct contact

then it is far less likely to be a misunderstanding.

[jberryhill]

32. I'm sure you've heard the stories about fake priests handing out business cards after plane crashes

[Hekate]

22. Thanks for the input

[LonePirate]

26. Are you expressing admiration for a soul-sucking insurance company out to screw over people? JFC!

[jberryhill]

31. I can't even begin to understand how you would get that from what I wrote

The comment on the article is "classy move". I was curious to know to whom that comment was directed.

Do you drive a car? Do you have car insurance?

Because if you do, then someday if you run someone over, it's not going to be YOUR decision what happens next. Your "soul-sucking insurance company" is going to handle the claim - not you.

So, explain this to me like I'm five years old. If you are in a car accident and someone makes a claim against you, you'll get in touch with your insurance company and tell them, "By all means, pay them the limit of my policy and if they want more, then I'll give up my house and all my other assets."

Your insurance company will tell you to get bent.

[hlthe2b]

3. Seeing that horrifically tiny hold where they had all their paying clients sleep is so nightmare-

inducing to me, even before this fire. I just don't know how anyone could have been ok with that. The explosion might still have gotten me, but I'd have been sleeping on that deck (and peeing overboard).

I admittedly have some degree of claustrophobia and this is just my worst nightmare.

for all lost.

[CatMor]

5. When I saw the hold where they all had to sleep ..

I was surprised it was legal for safety issues. I would think it will be addressed after this horrible nightmare.

[Hekate]

23. I'm not a boater, but having always lived on the coast have taken advantage of tours of Navy vessels

...over the years. Navy, Coast Guard, whatever docked and offered free tours. Also tall ships, some of which are museums and some of which are still in operation. Once I toured a replica of one of Columbus's ships and it was tiny.

I highly recommend it for educational purposes. There is no waste space. Sleeping quarters on a working vessel are are tight as all get-out; you are expected to sleep there and nothing else.

[CatMor]

24. I have never visited the Buffalo Naval Military Park ...

where I live. You have inspired me to do so.

[Baclava]

8. Where they died. Cabin of boat. Stairs leading to galley was only exit

Pitch black cabin full of choking smoke, piles of gear, 33 panicked people, half women, woken from sleep in middle of the night, screaming, clawing for the stairs only to be met by wall of fire....

[Ms. Toad]

17. There were two exits.

A second exit was approximately where this shot was taken from. Not a full stair, but a hatch wth a pull-down ladder.

[gratuitous]

21. I saw a report last night

It showed the second exit on a similar boat belonging to the company (which looked pretty cramped to my untrained eye), also led to the galley, which was where the fire was raging. The only two routes of escape were through the fire in the galley.

[Ms. Toad]

29. That matches reports by people on previous liveaboards on that boat. n/t

[Baclava]

25. Emergency escape hatch likely unmarked and nobody knew it was there in the panic

Either way they would have been heading into the inferno

Have they any solid idea how the fire started?

[Ms. Toad]

28. According to people who have been on charters with that dive op,

Last edited Fri Sep 6, 2019, 07:14 PM - Edit history (2)

on that boat, they (generally, and specifically that particular captain), were very carefully about safety briefings. They have been actively correcting people (without experience) based on their own experience, and are the ones from whom I got the informaiton about where it was.

The practice for this particular liveabord is that divers board up at scattered times starting early evening, and head out sometime during the night - so the first safety briefing is in the morning (once everyone is aboard). This was a couple of days into the trip, so they would have had a safety briefing about the emergency hatch.

I'm not the most experienced diver in the world, but from all reports this operation would meet my standard for a dive op I'd do a liveaboard with.

ETA: Speculation among both a surviving crew member, and diver hive-mind is the overnight charging station. On liveaboards, there is generally a charging station that everyone uses overnight to charge phones, flash, cameras, flashlights, scooters, etc. Divers like our toys. Some chargers are safer than others (rate of charging, kill switches if the temperature gets too high, etc. . . . there were likely both lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries being charged up overnight. (Recall the lithium ion plane fires) Second most reasonable guess is a short in wiring within the walls of the boat.

It is purely speculation at this point.

[Revanchist]

14. I did twenty years in the Navy

Nicer than what I had and I was stuck there for over 6 months at a time!

https://www.midwaysailor.com/military/shiplife.html

[hlthe2b]

15. I "doff my hat" to those who were on submarines and the like. Not me

I think I'd rather be shot out of the sky or risk a land mine.

[jberryhill]

7. The owners' insurer would be the one engaging the attorney to file the action

Last edited Fri Sep 6, 2019, 10:49 AM - Edit history (1)

It's not as if insurance companies are in the business of handing out money if there is any reason they can avoid it.

That's what insurance does.

[Faux pas]

12. Yikes!

That's all I've got.

[Fullduplexxx]

16. Boat owner " hey what can i say? sorry i killed these families ... so sue me ...

Ha! You cant ... see you on the water "

[Hekate]

20. Today's LA Times says no night watchman, & I say wtf because 5 crew were awake...

...and tried to open the two hatches.

Yesterday someone mulled over the fact that everybody's electronics were recharging in the galley, and wondered about lithium batteries. I wonder if the recovery team will be able to pull any useful information up on that score, because that seems a more likely culprit than the lack of a night watchman.

Dear gods what a tragic mess. At times like this you realize that Santa Barbara's a small community -- or rather a series of interlocking small communities, of which the boaters make one. A friend of mine once took a cruise on that boat. A flowers and candles shrine is up at the boat harbor, and a girl went out there with her harp. There's going to be a community vigil at Chase Palm Park tonight or tomorrow night, and I will be there in spirit.

But lawyers and insurance companies are already gnawing the bones.



ETA: people keep saying it happened 20 yards offshore, as though it was accessible and visible. If I understand correctly, it happened 20 yards offshore of a rugged island that is 26 miles from the mainland shore.