General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm very concerned about the role that the military is playing in Trump's plans.
For example, the Coast Guard Rear Admiral Peter Brown, who fell on his sword for Trump in the Alabama hurricane nonsense. And the military allowing Trump to raid their funds so he can build his wall. Then the reporting by Natasha Bertrand about the US military propping up the financially failing Turnberry resort by making refueling stops there.
I keep thinking he is setting up a scenario for a coup. Am I over-reacting?
DURHAM D
(32,596 posts)Their excuse -
dawg day
(7,947 posts)But yeah, the military commanders in this country have gone along with a lot of presidential demands before. This Scotland one, however, was so obviously illegal... however, they couldn't help but notice no one has held Trump to account for earlier grift like this.
DURHAM D
(32,596 posts)that they have refused for the past four months to provide requested information to the House committee trying to look into the matter.
hlthe2b
(101,730 posts)referenced, would give some the excuse of the NAZIS--only "obeying orders."
Will we repeat history?
aeromanKC
(3,307 posts)ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Unless some people with actual moral character take over or country
Brother Buzz
(36,217 posts)I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
DURHAM D
(32,596 posts)Given that the "President" part is removed the top brass really has no excuse to not cooperate with House oversight committee.
Brother Buzz
(36,217 posts)But those perks, those golf junkets, can cloud ones judgment.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)IMO remain naive or willfully ignorant thinking everything is just fine ... and America will just glide along. Then, there are millions that just sit on their asses and never bother to vote or care. It's all very dangerous and advantageous to whomever/whatever is/might be up to something. I've never felt so uncomfortable in the US.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)I don't mean that they'd make a public show of defying him. But the general or whoever could quietly say, no, we can't do that under military rules, and just decline to divert the flights.
The defense secretary could regretfully say that he couldn't sign off on the transfer of funds, and hint that he might have to tell the press.
But they just... went along. The military flights to Scotland required action too, not just passive acceptance.
I will never understand how Trump has this power over people who should have more fortitude.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)RKP5637
(67,032 posts)understand how Trump has this power over people who should have more fortitude."
I guess I would be no good, I would just tell the guy to fuck off and then let the chips fall where they may. How any can respect this guy is beyond belief! And now the republicans that challenged him in the debates sit as quietly as little church mice. It's all been a total WTF to me.
I do hope the democrats really start kicking ass in a big way.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I have just been shaking my head in incredulity too much these days. The bullshit is flying at us faster than we are able to absorb it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(59,940 posts)tblue37
(64,982 posts)cilla4progress
(24,589 posts)First I thought it was ICE he is grooming as his personal police force. This is not a new phenonemon.
There are surely those high up in this admin across agencies and including the military who are non-patriots like dumpf and will do as he commands.
leftstreet
(36,081 posts)$$$$
DURec
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)He really thinks he owns them
StarryNite
(9,366 posts)jalan48
(13,798 posts)I share your concerns about the present state of affairs.
Firestorm49
(4,004 posts)You better believe that we are in a very serious situation. As has been stated, our democracy is at stake. This is all being done in the open with no pretense of secrecy, and were all sitting here watching it unfold.
Employees of the DOJ have sent out racist emails, military personnel are wearing MAGA hats when the draft dodging fool speaks at a military base, and on and on. Most of us are too young to remember, much less be concerned about Hitlers rise to power and the aftermath of a lunatics rule.
But since we are so complacent in this nightmare, nobody has taken to the streets in PEACEFUL protest against this corrupt and dangerous administration. Do you think weve seen the end of this drama? Not by a long shot. By the time we realize whats happened, it will be too late.
Rachael had a segment about Trump blackmailing the Ukraine in order to get help winning the next election. WHAT !!! This is where were at, and its not cute. Republicans obviously dont care to safeguard our nation from a fanatic.
This president needs to be impeached. Its our last and only hope. Yes, I know about Moscow Mitch and the Senate, but this is not the time to fart in the couch. Lets hope that team Nadler/Pelosi can work some magic - preferably in advance of the next election.
Good luck to us all.
malthaussen
(17,066 posts)If an order is lawful, an officer has only two choices: obey it, or resign. Now, who on this board is ready to chuck a 25-year career down the crapper because they have been ordered to fill up at a gas station instead of a base?
Note that one rarely hears anything about the disputes and arguments that go on inside the clan of military professionals. There is plenty of it, but they keep that stuff to themselves. One can argue as much as he pleases up to the instance of the issuance of the order: then he shuts up and soldiers.
This is not a question of "spinelessness" or "caving." This is a case of doing your job.
I remember when Mr Trump had several former military members in his Administration, there were people proclaiming "coup, coup!" Now all those military men are gone. I'd expect that, except for the odd psychotic exception, most of the senior military have nothing but contempt for Donald Trump the man. But he is, like it or not, the Commander-in-Chief. We civilians can slink around muttering "he's not MY President," but a military officer does not have the option to say "He's not my C-in-C."
-- Mal
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)then this is the perfect scenario for a coup. Dont forget: The Toddler has no limits. If he issues an absurd order for the military to goosestep in their underwear, theyll goosestep in their underwear.
malthaussen
(17,066 posts)Goosestepping in their underwear would not be. Probably a lot of folks on this board would pay to see that.
-- Mal
The Liberal Lion
(1,414 posts)In fact your reaction is perfectly reasonable consider the facts as they lay.
OMGWTF
(3,901 posts)Sudsy
(58 posts)are necessarily an authoritarian organization traditionally answerable to democratic, civilian authority. When that civilian control becomes authoritarian itself, the consequences should come as no surprise.
AJT
(5,240 posts)It is a top-down organization, the epitome of anauthoritarianism.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)they would back him up 100%.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)As it has often been said civilians would have no chance against the military.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)We have too many veterans who took an oath to the Constitution, not some orange tin pot dictator.
Unless they bring on airstrikes, we have enough battlefield experience to build IED's and there are enough guns and ammo to deploy skirmish squads. Hit and run.
It worked against the British, especially once we took the airfields!
Out of shape MAGAts will drop like flies on the first mile of a march, so we take their stuff.
Will the military follow illegal orders or bomb Suzy and Fluffy in their back yard?
It really sucks that this may be a real scenario.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)Against gun ownership. That any attempt at opposition against the government would be quashed by the military using tanks and planes and drones.
Less than 10% of the population are veterans and over a quarter of them never served during a conflict. Of those who were serving during "wartime" 75% likely were never in action of any sort. Allowing that a generous 2% of the population has battlefield experience, will that be enough to oppose the military?
LiberalLovinLug
(14,154 posts)Scary the power the evangelical movement has in the military. It can easily be used to conflate fundamentalist Christianity > "Christian nation" > evangelical causes > Trump. Where if A = D then to be a good soldier for your country you MUST support Trump.
JHB
(37,133 posts)I'm not in a position to know, but most of the coverage about this has involved the Air Force, and it was USAF planes ordered to stop at the failing airport near Trup's Scotland resort.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)* not all but plenty of military areas are now
Lets hope its not enough
Cheviteau
(383 posts)Militaries don't do coups to bring a civilian to power. If there's a coup, Donald's fat ass will be the first to the gallows. There will be no military coup; however, there will be a day of reckoning for the commanders who are now going along with his bullshit. If a coup is to come it will be the doings of the Federal Courts. That's what I fear most.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)lanlady
(7,133 posts)"Mad Dog" my arse. More like Scared Pup, too afraid of Trump to speak out. The only reason we've heard from him at all is that he's trying to hawk his book, which by all accounts contains nothing controversial or revelatory. What cowardice! If someone of Mattis's stature is afraid to speak out against Dear Leader, why should anyone expect differently of other military leaders?
Demovictory9
(32,324 posts)Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)His coup already took place!
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)election in 2020 the military will help him stay in the Presidency. Or if he wins in 2020 and cant run again in 2024, the military will help him stay in office. This is what I mean by a coup.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)News travels way too fast and the U.S. military, the same one he's taking funds from for the wall?
muhaha!
I aint losing a wink of sleep over it.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)military on their side? Game over!
This is very dangerous, I have been saying it very carefully as to not offend military people, but the truth is that the higher ranks are very corruptible, just look at all dictators past and present and you will find there is one common denominator, that is the military because without the force they are nothing.
We are in a very precarious moment in our history, something needs to be done NOW!
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)And they can be investigated too.