I cannot believe how many working class people are brainwashed about the term socialism.

[shockey80]

I have been a blue collared worker my whole life. I hang out with blue collar workers. So many of them hate the Democrats because of the term socialism. I must be honest, I tell all of them they are swallowing propaganda like pigs at a trough.

Where did this belief come from? Social Security? Medicare? Is that evil socialism? This is a big problem that must be fixed. It is this belief that causes ten of millions of working class Americans to vote against their best interests and destroys their lives.

[Meadowoak]

1. My bone headed brother thinks socialism and communism

Are the same thing.

[shockey80]

2. Your brother is not alone.

[Joe941]

3. What america need more than anything is socialism.

[Meadowoak]

5. +1000

[Codeine]

28. Transparent. nt

[treestar]

4. Heck I know professional people

with advanced degrees who don't get or refuse to recognize a difference. You can point out that socialism means government owns the means of production and they will insist that any government regulation of the economy deprives the property owner of their property.

[albacore]

6. Here....

[smirkymonkey]

19. +1000

[mia]

7. Who's going to pay more for more socialism?

Working class voters. Those who work will share more of what they have with those who don't work.

It is this belief that causes ten of millions of working class Americans to vote for their best interests and protect their lives.

[PETRUS]

18. Sarcasm? Humor?

Somewhere between 25 and 35 percent of national income is capital income (a larger figure than the entire federal budget). That is the product of worker's labor going to capitalists. 10% of the population receives 90% of capital income. 1% of the population receives about a third of capital income. Most working people get a pittance.

[mia]

21. Irony.

"Most working people get a pittance."

The OP wondered why workers vote against their "best interests".

My perception of workers is that they believe it is better to vote for whomever convinces them that they will be able to keep more money in their pockets.

[PETRUS]

34. I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my point.

The typical worker forfeits more of the value they produce to owners of capital than they pay in taxes.

[mia]

35. I agree with your statement, but don't quite get your point.

Do you agree that workers will pay more in taxes for the increased costs of more benefits (socialism) for all?

[PETRUS]

38. I don't think that's the right question (or at least it isn't the whole story).

What matters isn't how much a worker pays in taxes, but how much they have for discretionary spending. Most policies advanced by socialist types would do two things: increase the labor share of national income, and reduce out of pocket costs by expanding public goods and services. Even if the tax rate increases, a typical worker would have more take home pay and less in expenses (e.g. medical care and education).

[mia]

41. Thank you for your explanation.

Then our Democratic nominee, if elected, will have to have convinced workers that they will see this net gain. I think that this applies to workers across the middle class, especially the Independent voters.

[Buckeyeblue]

36. They don't realize that

The actually think they have something. They don't understand the big picture of the economy. Our high tolerance for debt allows people to play for their house and car over time. The monthly payment approach to life has duped people.

[Ohiogal]

8. I hear this often, from right wingers

Socialism is the same thing as communism .... all the libs want to do is spend other people's money .... etc. etc. It's ingrained in their brains.

[Thekaspervote]

9. Agree... it's the roads we drive on, the police, fire dept, animal control and on and on!!

[Brainfodder]

10. remove ISM, they fear it?

That is the best simple excuse I can give for that stupidity.

I've heard it too.

[procon]

11. It's a branding problem.

For decades Republicans have been allowed to redefine the meaning of socialism with little push back from the Dems. As a group, Dems hide from the term like they're ashamed of SS and Medicare, the two greatest social benefits programs in our history.

We have to claw back our legacy and reclaim our leftist roots with pride in all the government run progressive programs that are continuing to uplift people and improve their lives. We own the socialist programs that people of both parties depend on and couldn't be without. That statement should be said loudly, not just as a reminder of the enormously popular social programs that we Dems have accomplished, but also that's what we stand for, and the prospect of a future that can benefit everyone.

[Hortensis]

12. Lol. I can't believe how many Sanders admirers have/had no idea

what socialism is or even, in some cases, that he's a lifelong ardent socialist. He spent his early decades envying Nicaragua's socialist revolution and trying to build revolutionary fervor in peaceful, prosperous VT.

That of course failed, but all these years he's never abandoned his dream of overthrowing the government by class revolution, though he can't sell socialism even to those thrilled by his rhetoric on the stump. Some months ago, when the subject came up, a few here on DU tried out the label "democratic socialist" for themselves, but apparently it mostly didn't take.

For a real indication of that some haven't yet done even basic homework, though, how about the national poll not too long ago that showed a majority of Sanders supporters at that time listed Biden as their second choice! Might as well laugh, though somehow I doubt I-Sanders is able to find being equated with Biden amusing, even if it is very beneficial.

[Karadeniz]

14. Keep trying to get through, Shockey! When it comes up again, ask your group what they think

About all the subsidies and loopholes the govt gives to industry. Is that capitalism? If the govt can support business, why not help people? Do they think it's business that's improved people's working lives? It's not. It's the unions of workers who've taken on the elite and helped workers, not our form of capitalism. Our form of capitalism has caused economists to classify our society as an oligarchy or a plutocracy, not a democracy or a republic. If they don't think it's time to save the country by reprioritizing who govt should protect, they're not as patriotic as they think!

[eShirl]

15. cold war propaganda lacked nuance at times

[wasupaloopa]

16. If we would stop using the word socialism we would not get such push back.

It is a fighting word. I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s. Then we were told were we’re fighting the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Just describe your ideas such as health care for all and leave the idea that it is socialism out.

We have seen the enemy and it is us.

My guess is some here want to have a fight on this board when they bring up socialism.

[Lucid Dreamer]

22. You are spot on here. Get the message out.

There is a large group of mid-century voters that get as far as "s o c i a l..." and they tune out.

If we want to keep their attention we've got to rebrand as something like "Fair Capitalism" or "Righteous Distribution."

If we keep launching programs that start with "s o c i a l..." we will lose them. Then the damn EC map will look just like 2016. Screw that.

Change the language. The people that are set to vote Dem will not change their mind if we reword the message. But if we drop the trigger language some of the loosely attached Reps can be converted.

But we won't change. Our candidates won't change and the election results won't change. ...sigh...

Sorry for the rant, but today my pessimism cannot be quenched.

[pnwmom]

25. I agree. Why so many progressives think they have to cling to the word "socialist" is beyond me.

The brand isn't working. So change it.

[pnwmom]

24. Yes. There's no reason to cling to that word. The northern European countries don't.

They are Social Democrats, not Democratic Socialists.

[Cosmocat]

33. Except if socialism is said 1,000 times by politicians and media

it is said 900 times by republicans, 99 times by the media and 1 time by democrats.

If democrats never once said "socialism" republicans would stills scream it, media would still seriously posit about it, and the dumb asses in this country would still be in fear of it.

[tblue37]

20. Propaganda works. The Dems have ceded the major broadcast conduits to the right wingers,

whose moneyed friends are willing to take real financial losses to continue supporting their RW radio stations & local TV stations, and when advertisers flee the biggest FOX mouths, they continue to support them & keep them on the air.I

RW money also funds think tanks, websites, internships, activists and activist programs, etc., so right wingers can make lovely incomes, while liberals are expected to accept being poor while devoting their lives to the cause.

[pnwmom]

23. The Soviet Socialist Republic and the National Socialists of Germany (Nazis) have something

to do with it.

But the fact is Social Democrats, like in Norway, Sweden, etc. are NOT socialists. They are not Democratic socialists. They believe in well-regulated capitalism and a safety net. So I don't know why progressives feel we need to rehab that word.

[Turin_C3PO]

39. The thing is

Republicans continue to falsely label all Democrats as socialists and they won’t stop no matter how much we disown the word “socialism”. The good thing is that socialism doesn’t have the same boogeyman connotation with younger voters.

[liberal N proud]

26. Republicans have accomplished their goal and done it very well

The have managed to turn people against their own best interest

[RockRaven]

27. The monied/capitalist class controls the schools, the media, and the politicians...

so I am not as incredulous about how many working class people are brainwashed, but it is disheartening as hell.

[brewens]

29. There was a significant socialist movement among farmers in the late 1800's. They established

co-ops and the granges, pushed for an income tax, and at one point even tried to co-op manufacturing farm equipment. There were even proposals to make buying land solely for speculation illegal.

[catrose]

30. The first time I heard Obama called a socialist, I laughed. Who could believe that?

Sadly, a third of the nation.

[Fresh_Start]

31. Simple solution...STOP using the word socialism

unless you want to lose

[Turin_C3PO]

40. Besides Sanders,

what major Democrats call themselves “socialist“?

[yardwork]

32. A lot of this fear is driven by racism.

Too many white people - and I know this because I'm white and people say it to me - believe that black and brown people will "take" their hard earned money. Zillions of white people believe that Democrats are all about stealing money from hardworking whites and giving it to "those people."

It's our single biggest problem in the U.S.

[AnnieBW]

37. The Cold War

The Russians were the "Godless Commies" and socialism = communism. (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). People were against anything having to do with the Russkies. Now, the Russians are better capitalists than we are, and controlling our elective process.

[real Cannabis calm]

42. K&R

[GulfCoast66]

43. When someone names me a socialist country that works I might buy in.

Right wingers are not the only ones confused about socialism. Lots of DU members on this post are also.

Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production.

Personally, I want to be more like Northern European countries. None of which are socialist.

But Capitalist countries with strong social democratic policies insuring that everyone, not just those with capital, benefit from the wealth creating ability of capitalism.

Words have meanings.

[Ron Green]

44. My favorite term: A Moral Economy. n/t

[Hermit-The-Prog]

45. billionaires love socialism

They want to socialize all their costs while pocketing all they can keep from the fools who keep voting their GOP puppets into office.

[Jakes Progress]

46. About the same number that think unions are bad.

the koch family has done a number on the workers of America.