Huffman: it is "unconstitutional" to require a witness "to affirm an oath to a deity to they may not

[riversedge]

Old news but I did not know about. As article points out--committee keep the old words.

Link to tweet

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Huffman (D): Rep. Cheney ‘Went Ballistic’ to Defend God

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002

Democrat calls religion a 'political opportunity for many of my colleagues'



Nic Rowan - September 3, 2019 4:35 PM

Rep. Jared Huffman (D., Calif.) criticized Rep. Liz Cheney (R., Wyo.) on Sunday for going "ballistic" after a House of Representatives committee proposed in January to remove references to God in the oath witnesses take before hearings.

Controversy arose when the House Natural Resources Committee—on which Huffman sits⁠—drafted a new set of rules that would remove "so help you God" from the oath. The new rules also included other wording revisions, including switching all references to the committee's "chairman" to the "chair" and changing all instances of "his or her" to the gender-neutral "their."

After learning of the proposed changes, Cheney denounced the deletion of "so help you God" on Fox News's Fox & Friends.

"It is incredible, but not surprising, that the Democrats would try to remove God from committee proceedings in one of their first acts in the majority," she said. "They really have become the party of Karl Marx."

Cheney's words, along with greater attention surrounding the possible changes, prompted the committee to revisit the issue and to keep the "so help you God" phrase.


Huffman, who identifies as a "humanist," responded to Cheney's words more than seven months after the event on Freethought Matters, a show which supports religious skepticism.

"Liz Cheney just went ballistic," he said. "She smelled blood in the water, went on Fox News, and started ranting about how Democrats were dropping God from the Congress. And at our next meeting, the Republicans, one by one, made these pronouncements about how, you know, we shouldn't be against God and Democrats were against God, and unfortunately, my Democratic colleagues backed down, and so we now nominally still have that same oath."

Huffman also said that it is "unconstitutional" to require a witness "to affirm an oath to a deity they may not even believe in."...............................................

[GeorgeGist]

1. I'd love to see a witness refuse.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Happens a lot-- as a Quaker, I am not required to swear an oath...

since Quakers do not swear to oaths. A few others the same way.

What we do, and it is perfectly legal and acceptable, is simply say "I affirm" instead of swearing to almighty God.

Swearing to almighty Zeus or Satan would probably not go over well, though. It would just not be worth the trouble to swear to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[3catwoman3]

11. I have found a comfortable philosophical/ spiritual home in...

...Unitarian Universalism, which has some similarities to the Quaker way of looking at things. I also use the “affirm” wording when the occasion arises.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Truth is, when I moved to an area without a Meeting, I ended up joining a UU church myself...

A lot of Quakers tend to do that when "Friendless".

A lot more singing and talking than I was used to, but it is creedless and non-doctrinaire. We have a lot of Jews and "recovering Catholics" as members.

[3catwoman3]

18. I estimate at least half of our small congregation (about 125 people)...

...identify as former/lapsed/recovering Catholics. One guy even says, very emphatically stressing the past tense, “recoverED.”

The creedless nod non-doctrinaire features what makes it most appealing. I have, long ago, attended a few Quaker meetings.

[Lucid Dreamer]

6. I did not refuse, but I had them change the oath...

in 1987.

I was called in as an expert witness on a drug smuggling case.

The oath for all the witnesses was, "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god?"

I told the lawyer that hired me that I worked in the past for a government agency that already had my oath to say NOTHING to ANYBODY about certain things I knew. That oath preceded this case. So the WHOLE truth may not be available from me.

I wrote this down and told him to take it to the judge before I was sworn in to see if it would pass muster.

"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as it pertains to this case?"

The judge allowed that.

[Delphinus]

9. Ooh,

that is good.

[Buckeyeblue]

2. This word god causes everyone to shit their pants

I sometimes wonder if I even know what the word means. This so called preacher where I live is going to have a public meeting where he will explain why evolution is a fraud. He calls his church the simple truth. I call them the simple minded. I would go and challenge him but it would ultimately be a waste of my time. These people are just lost.

[stopdiggin]

3. so the political opportunists played the God card

Gosh, and we're all SOOOO surprised
(Liz Cheney isn't the sharpest splinter in the woodpile .. but even she can whack a hanging curveball)

[LuvLoogie]

5. Better to be inclusive than exclusive. I don't think you combat self-righteousness

with more self-righteousness. We have the media who will amplify every right-wing talking point and critique every Democratic talking point.

[OnDoutside]

7. Why doesn't he take them to court ?

[Hekate]

8. The right to "affirm" truth without reference to God, and to "affirm" without making an oath...

...has been laid down in the law for many generations. It may have started with the Quakers (now aka Friends), but also grew to apply to Jehovah's Witnesses and to Atheists. It is possible that Orthodox Jews may also invoke this law.

Some religious groups and some individuals have conscientious objections to invoking the Name of God for any purpose but the explicitly sacred, and likewise the taking of oaths.

Cheney may or may not be ignorant of this long-standing US legal precedent, but she is assuredly pandering like hell to the Christian far-right in this country. And may she and her daddy go to said hell.

[MineralMan]

15. There is much of which Rep. Cheney is ignorant.

[rockfordfile]

10. I agree

[BSdetect]

12. It should also be removed from citizenship oaths. Incredibly offensive.

BY DEFAULT not be obscure request.

They never mention that you can request a "god free" or secular oath.

[MineralMan]

14. Any time I am required to give an oath, I declare that I will AFFIRM my oath.

That has always resulted in them leaving out the "so help me God" part of the oath. If they include it, I simply restate that I AFFIRM my oath as provided in the Constitution.

I've never encountered any objection to that, but if I did, I would ask "To which deity am I supposedly petitioning for help to tell the truth? I need no assistance in telling the truth."

[Hobo]

16. Liz Cheney says we are the

party of Karl Marx? Hahahahah Hahahahahaha

funny in an ironic kind of way don't you think?

When did the "communist in every corner" party become the party of Putin?


Just asking for a friend.


Hobo

[Hotler]

17. They backed down to Liz Cheney!!!!!!

Fuck it.