Bank error in your favor. Collect $120,000.

[PoliticAverse]

Imagine waking up one day to find an extra $120,000 in your bank account. You did not make $120,000 or win $120,000, but there it is, $120,000, just sitting there. Cool!

...

Maybe you should call the bank and find out what’s going on?

...

Robert and Tiffany Williams of Montoursville, Pa., did not call the bank, police say.

When a non-hypothetical $120,000 intended for a business was accidentally transferred into their BB&T bank account because of a teller error, the couple splurged on a camper, a Chevy and a racecar, state trooper Aaron Brown told the Williamsport Sun-Gazette. Authorities say they also distributed $15,000 to friends who needed the money.

Read the rest at: https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/a-bank-accidentally-deposited-24120000-in-a-couple-e2-80-99s-account-they-spent-most-of-it-then-got-charged-with-theft/ar-AAGZUFQ

[Tiggeroshii]

1. It was their bank account. What law do police say the couple broke?

[PoliticAverse]

3. "felony charges of theft and receiving stolen property". n/t

[Mosby]

36. They didn't steal shit

And the person who stole the money was the bank by putting the money in the wrong account.

[Drahthaardogs]

37. Nope.

Doesn't work that way.

[Mosby]

39. It's up to a jury to decide that.

[Blue_true]

45. They stole the money. They had an obligation to point out the error to the bank.

How would you feel if you were waiting for $120,000 that you owned and was going to use for a business activity, only to find out the money was incorrectly posted to another account and those account holders purposely spent the money?

[Mosby]

51. I'd ask the bank for my money

This was their account, they literally can't steal what's in the account. There is no intent, at least until the cops got them to admit it wasn't their money.

They had no obligation to point out anything.

ETA the cops knew exactly what to ask, and when they admitted that it wasn't their money that demonstrates intent.

[Blue_true]

56. The couple had a ethical obligation to do what was right,

point out the error to the bank ASAP.

[FBaggins]

53. Half right

The second half wouldn’t phase me in the slightest. It was after all a bank error. They don’t have the option of waiting to recover the funds before fixing my account.

[qazplm135]

4. It's against the law to

Do what they did. They knew it was an error.

[GusBob]

6. Who else lies, cheats and steals?

Rhymes with dump

[unblock]

8. to paraphrase jennifer aniston's character joanna from "office space",

joanna: so a lot of money is in your account?
peter: yeah.
joanna: and it isn't yours?
peter: well it became ours.
joanna: how is that not stealing?

the legal, moral, ethical reality is that if something that doesn't belong to you falls into your lap, it doesn't simply become yours. you have an obligation to make a reasonable effort to return it to its rightful owner.

if a wad of cash falls out of my pocket and you pick it up and i turn around and say hey, that's mine, guess what, it's mine. if you run off with it that's stealing.

now, if you find something and it's in practice impossible to determine its rightful owner, then yes, you can generally take possession of it. for instance if you see cash on the sidewalk and no one is around, then ok, it's yours. not because you can get away with it, but because it's effectively impossible to determine its rightful owner. of course, if the cash you found was in a wallet with id, then of course that cash belongs to the that person, and you have to return it to them. hopefully they'll give you some or all of the cash as a reward.

but $120,000 appearing in your bank account? you have to make a reasonable effort to try to return it to its rightful owner, and that starts with alerting the bank, which is extremely likely to be able to determine the rightful owner.

[PoliticAverse]

10. heh...

[Tiggeroshii]

11. Im just saying if they spent half that money on a good enough lawyer

Theyd have probably been able to keep the rest of it and the bank would have to front the lost funds to the rightful owners. If the tables were turned theres a chance that wood have happened anyways.

[miyazaki]

15. Screw the bank you go to jail.

Even though they've been screwing everyone since the dawn of banking.

[unblock]

16. $60,000 doesn't buy that kind of lawyering.

$6,000,000, ok, maybe.

ianal, but my understanding is the law and case history are rather clear in such cases.

massive lawyering can't escape that reality, though it can make it sufficiently difficult to prosecute you that you might escape with a light sentence that doesn't involve actual prison time beyond time served.

[jberryhill]

27. I can't stand prospective "clients" who think this way

I will occasionally have someone show up who has no defense whatsoever, and the best course of action for them is to negotiate terms of settlement that they can live with.

These kinds of folks are sometimes astounded to find out they don't have any defense, and they think that if they hire a "good lawyer" and pay a lot of money, that it will somehow turn their shit into roses.

It doesn't work that way.

[Blue_true]

46. It works that way if a person has enough money to spend.

Congrats, you have ethics, some Attornies don't have ethics, and are whip smart.

Look at the history of a Texas Attorney called Racehorse Haynes. He got a guy acquitted that was accused of a triple homicide, and there were TWO surviving witnessed against him. The guy lost his fortune, but he walked free.

O J Simpson

Robert Kraft and the Florida massage palor (had him on tape getting a blowjob and paying).

Klaus Von Bellow (sp?)

[jberryhill]

50. This is not like any of that

Did they get the money?

Did they know they got the money?

Did they know the money wasn’t theirs?

Did they spend the money?

It doesn’t matter what lawyers you hire in this situation.

[Blue_true]

55. Goldman Sach was sued for misrepresentation in a multi-billion dollar company sale.

The executives of the company that was sold had cooked the books massively. The company was worth just over $1 billion less than it was sold for and Goldman's representatives apparently knew that and failed to inform the buying company. The case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, who sided with Goldman Sach, the reason was the buying company had the responsibility of figuring out that it was being lied to.

Apply that to the couple. They stole $120,000, not enough to hire Attornies that will be billing for millions of dollars. But if they had stolen $1 billion and could afford to pay tens of hundreds of millions in attorney fees, the outcome for them could well be much different.

Robert Kraft in the Florida case could have pled guilty and paid a small fine and likely got a slap on the wrist sentence like a year's unsupervised probation, he was basically caught on film red-handed, but he spent big money for three high powered Attornies, who proceeded to make the Florida prosecutors and sheriff investigators look like fools.

[malaise]

24. +1,000

I'd actually go to my bank

[ecstatic]

2. Someone accidentally sent $500 to my email address and his bank refused to help him

It's so weird that I had not noticed that he and his family had been including me in their group emails for years. Gmail must have hidden it from view somehow.

Anyway, I opened a dispute and eventually my bank returned the money to him. Had I not done that, he would have been SOL. Looks like there's a double standard when it comes to transfer mistakes made by regular people vs bank tellers.

[GusBob]

5. I would contact the bank and fix the problem as soon as found out

As a business owner I would think that could be payroll for many families

There is no camper worth being dishonest

[Blue_true]

48. Very good point.

The company could have moved the money over to meet payroll or some other critical expense. $120,000 may seem like a lot, but if a business has 30-40 employees, that gets spent in one payday for salaries and payroll taxes. A business with that size payroll likely has some success, but it is by no means a large or even medium sized company, most likely a smallish operation that can't afford a misplaced $120,000.

There is no justifying what the couple did.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. That was a very dumb move on their part. They knew the money wasn't theirs.

A call to the bank would have been my first move.

[myohmy2]

9. oh boy...

" The couple now face three felony charges of theft and receiving stolen property, court records show. They appeared in court last week and posted bail of $25,000 each. "

...moral of the story: don't fuck with a capitalist...

...

[Blue_true]

49. Moral of the story is don't take what isn't yours. nt

[Backseat Driver]

12. Been there; done that

Bank said it was a legit (payroll) direct deposit from X Corp. to our account so they could not just take it back.
As it happened, no less, X Corp., was a recent previous employer.
Had to do our own sleuthing with X to get it back to their general payroll account and back on its way to their employee.
X said if we had not sleuthed down the clerical error, they probably never would have determined the money trail to whence the funds had been sent (to us) in error nor been able to re-direct that error to the correct direct deposit accountholder.

Oh well; do not pass go; do not collect $XXXX.XX

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. Years ago I worked for a firm that had a VERY large contract with General Motors...

and the company got a check from GM with an extra zero on it.

In other words, they got a $250,000 check for a $25,000 invoice.

The owner fucking cashed it and bought a boat!

Needless to say, once it worked it’s way through the system and was discovered, GM severed all ties with the guy (he had several display and hospitality contracts in IndyCar and NASCAR worth several million annually) and the company went belly up shortly thereafter because no one else would do business with him once word got out.

The post above about finding money on the street is accurate. If you have no way of determining ownership, it’s yours.

But my example and the one in the OP most definitely do not fit into that category.

[malaise]

25. We were changing our front door lock some years ago and when the locksmith

completed the job, I wrote the check. Not once did he say that I overpaid him - he said fourteen - I thought he meant fourteen thousand and not J$1,400 and wrote the cheque for the former. This man had worked with us decades earlier and we helped him get other jobs. I realized the mistake the next day and called him. Turns out his wife went for a mani/pedi and a new hairdo and they went out for Chinese food.
He returned our money a week later and not only will we never do business with him again, we spread the word.
Some people are inherently dishonest.

[Blue_true]

52. Lock smithing can be a snake pit.

I once had a company charge me $600 to change one lock. I needed several locks changed and was told the bill would be several thousand. I was really busy with other business matters, but the huge charge got my attention. I wised up, called around and found a guy who did all the other locks perfectly for $400 + parts total.

Lesson learned for me, whenever I need to hire a trade person, I shop around and look for reviews. Rigging companies can be notorious because that skill is not common and there are so few choices.

[malaise]

54. I learned my lesson too

Only persons who have worked for our closest friends come here.

[Blue_true]

57. Good rule to follow. When a person finds a good honest trade person, stay with that

person.

[meadowlander]

14. There was a famous case recently where $10 million was deposited

in a couple's bank account by accident. They tried to flee to Hong Kong but were extradited. She got nine months and he got four years in prison.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6922780/Not-guilty-plea-in-10m-bank-error-trial

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/24/world/asia/new-zealand-accidental-millionaire-sentenced/index.html

[LisaL]

18. You'd have to flee to a country with no extradition treaty.

[Blue_true]

58. How many average people know treaty law?

Easier to just alert the bank, return the money and hope the owner is feeling generous in terms of a reward.

[LisaL]

17. If things are too good to be true, they usually are.

If you erroneously got a large deposit in your bank account, chances are somebody eventually is going to figure it out. So a good idea would be not to go running around spending this money.

[DFW]

19. I wonder how people would have handled this case from about 40 years ago?

Out in the middle of Kansas somewhere, a woman found an old banknote from Germany from 1923. It was for 100,000 marks. Having no clue, she took it to her local bank and asked if it was worth anything? The idiot at the bank called up their head office and asked for the exchange rate for 100,000 German Marks. It was about $44,000 at the time. She said she would gladly sell the note for that. Her local branch paid the $44,000 into her account, and she promptly left on a trip around the world. When she got back, she was confronted with the bad news. The 100,000 marks was an obsolete bill from the Weimar inflation period, and worth exactly zero. She wasn't charged with a crime, but she had to pay back the $44,000, including what she had spent on her vacation.

If I had been the manager of her branch, I would have been happy to take back whatever she could pay back. I would have chewed out and/or fired the idiot that didn't question a circulating banknote supposedly with a face value of $44,000 (from 1923, no less!), and didn't describe it to their foreign exchange department in Chicago, or wherever it was he called. I would have taken full responsibility, gotten as much publicity as possible out of the bank's customer-friendly attitude, and written off what the bank couldn't immediately recover, saying they hoped she had fun on her vacation. After all, the poor woman had no clue about the banknote, and relied 100% on the bank to provide the expertise on what to do.

[HAB911]

20. Following the logic of some here at DU

the teller should be responsible, as in, wait staff being responsible for someone walking out on a meal without paying because some diners are open carry.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212435482

[Cerridwen]

21. Only Swiss banks are legally allowed to receive stolen goods and monies and charge for storage. n/t

[CrispyQ]

33. Good one!

[Eugene]

22. Back in my school days, they used to teach this situation as a lesson.

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2019, 02:22 PM - Edit history (1)

My school gave the example of a $3 million bank mistake. The moral of the story was it's not your money and you're in big trouble if you spend it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. This reminds me of the premiere episode of Family Guy

Idiotic

[MineralMan]

26. Stupid people.

If a pile of money shows up in your bank account, you know it's there accidentally. If you don't know its source, then it's a mistake, and the money is not yours. If you spend it, you are stealing it from the rightful owner of it.

How hard is that to understand?

The State of California once made a mistake and refunded $2000 more on my taxes than I was owed. Some clerk typed a 7 instead of a 1 in some form in my return. I knew how much my refund was, and instantly spotted the source of the error. I moved that $2000 to my savings account, and began an year-long process of correcting the state's error. It was a pain in the ass, but the $2000 sat in that savings account until the state understood the mistake. Then, the mistaken money went back to them in a check.

That's what you do when some unexpected and undeserved money shows up in your bank account. Eventually, whoever put it there by accident is going to want it back. It's not like finding a $100 bill on the sidewalk. Not in any way.

So, now that couple is screwed. They spent the money, and no longer can pay it back, probably. But, they are going to have to do exactly that or face legal consequences.

Found money is not necessarily your money. You have to make a serious effort to find out where it came from and return it. That's pretty much impossible with the $100 bill on the sidewalk. But, if you find $120,000 or even just $2000 in your bank account due to a bank error, it's most definitely not yours.

Think of it this way: If the bank made a mistake and deposited your money in someone else's account, you'd expect the bank to correct its error. Same rule applies if your account is where an erroneous deposit ends up.

IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY!

[FBaggins]

44. Stupid even if it weren't wrong to keep the money

They don't appear to be destitute... but they clearly aren't wealthy. A couple thousand in the bank, but also a history of bad check writing and they needed car repairs.

$120k lands in your lap and you spend it within weeks on "a racecar, an SUV, a camper, and two four-wheelers" and give a friend $15k? You're not thinking of retirement savings or a down payment on a home? You're buying toys?

If they are poor... I don't think it's because they don't make money.

[Newest Reality]

28. I am wondering

where the game Monopoly got that idea?

Was there ever a time a bank error was in your favor? Maybe the card should have read: You have successfully laundered money from your constituents: Collect $100?

[PoliticAverse]

40. Good question. Maybe they should have used the "Monopoly" defense...

[CrispyQ]

29. I had $4,200 wrongly deposited into my checking account. I called the bank right away.

The couple acted stupidly because of greed.

[Farmer-Rick]

30. I once caught my bank double charging me, double posted a check to my account.

It was $11.00. They fixed it and didn't spend it. This is why we take particular care to balance our bank statements kids.

If suddenly a million or other large sum was deposited in my account And I knew it was Not my money and was an accident. I would be very quiet about it. Invest it in short term CDs. Then when the rightful owners found out, I would cash out the CDs and return their money.

[Croney]

32. They could find out the next day, and you'd be in big trouble.

[Farmer-Rick]

34. There are some really short term CDs out there

Jumbo CDs can have terms as short as a few days. Wouldn't the bank give me at least a few days to get it back?

I would argue for them to be reasonable here, I didn't make the mistake. I'll get you your money back in a few days.

The problem with that couple is they didn't continue to deal with the bank. Don't go dark, negotiate.

[Croney]

31. The winners here? The friends in need who received the $15,000.

Hope they were deserving.

[PoliticAverse]

42. Winners until such time someone sues them to recover any of it. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. You can't keep it.

[TexasBlueDog]

38. 12,000

Many years ago I opened an account at a now defunct brokerage firm with a 3k deposit because as a promo they issued fee free gold AMEX card against it...with no credit check. By the time I got back to work there was a message to call them. They had instantly deposited 12000 dollars in my account and they wanted it back.

Said they couldn't back it out and would I be kind enough to take another two hours out of my day to come solve their problem. I said no but they could send a courier with a check and I would be happy to sign it. In less than an hour there were two large young men in my office with a check. There a a decidedly sinister air about them, wouldn't sit down, never stopped looking at me, treated me like I had tried to steal money from them. Nasty business. The AMEX was nice though.

[The_jackalope]

41. It happened to me on a smaller scale in about 1975.

I was running a small, struggling one-man photographic studio. One morning I went in to find $5,000 (current value $23,000) of unknown origin in my current account. I spent an hour or two dreaming about how much it would help, then went back in and reported it. No finder's fee, but no criminal record either. And a clear conscience is worth more than 5 grand.

Now if it had been 5 million...

I don't know who came up with this quote:

"Anyone who has a chance to steal less than a million dollars and does, is a fool.
Anyone who has a chance to steal more than a million dollars and doesn't, is a fool."

[lindysalsagal]

47. "Gee, your honor, we thought the bank really, really liked us."

not

[customerserviceguy]

59. Something like this happened to me over forty years ago

ATM's had just come out, and they first saw use at the two branches of a major bank in the university district where I lived. I transferred $400 from my savings to my checking account, and while $400 did indeed go into the checking account, only $4.00 came out of the savings account. Now, this was not the first screw-up that ever happened with this mega-bank, and I was determined I would get their damned attention.

I withdrew all of my money from that bank, including the mistaken funds, and put it into another bank. I got a letter from the bank, but I was holding out for being able to talk with one of the muckety-mucks higher up than the local branch. I was fully willing to give them their money back, but I would demand a fuck-up free account (meaning, if I found another screw-up, that I would have a telephone number of someone who would fix the problem THAT DAY) and as I was only 20 at the time, I wanted a MasterCharge credit card from this bank (yes, that was before they called it MasterCard). I figured that since I didn't piss the money away, it proved that I was a good credit risk even though I didn't have a lot of credit at that point in my life.

They never pursued it any further, and I kept the money. This was a major regional bank that was bought up by one of the "too big to fail" banks, and is emblematic of their future of doing stupid-ass things, necessitating a Federal bailout when the shit hit the fan back in 2008.