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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAn official impeachment inquiry would send Trump completely over the edge.
He is close already.
In the last few weeks, anonymous White House staff have told sources that he has become unhinged, ranting about everything, and nobody can talk to him. They are very concerned.
He did not handle the Hurricane well. Some wondered if he was even getting updates about it, after he made a confusing comment about Alabama? He was commenting on news that was 4 or 5 days old. he was unable to show any empathy for the victims, but that was nothing new.
The job appears to be more than he can handle, mentally. It's difficult when the president is a control freak.
But, if an official impeachment inquiry is announced, it may become more than he can handle? He could lose it. And he is a very unpredictable individual.
Nadler and the Judiciary need to have a very well-planned strategy, if they go down this road? They need a larger list of witnesses to be subpoenaed and they need to be ready to immediately go to the Courts to get their approvals of the subpoenas. They will need to inform the possible witnesses that failure to follow a Court order can lead to fine and/or imprisonment.
They need to follow a very aggressive path to get witnesses in front of them as soon as possible. The Mueller investigation is over and they are still processing the information within the Report. It will still be part of any larger investigation that might happen.
Corruption must be attacked very aggressively. That is what emoluments is about. Money is being made in a corrupt way. They should subpoena the Air Force crewman that were on the last flight to Scotland and find out what they know about the diversion to a Trump business, in my opinion. They should go out immediately. They should do it behind closed doors.
Impeachment must begin now.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Notwithstanding those who focus on second-guessing and criticizing them at every turn.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212448998
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)real Cannabis calm
(1,124 posts)Here's is what the House of Representatives is doing today, according to the New York Times:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212449701
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)that the OP headline raised, that Trump would respond with increasingly disordered behavior. No doubt they have psychiatrists evaluating him constantly these days, and we know they've been manipulating Trump with push-pull tactics for some time.
They're doing the same with the Republican leadership. Nixon was impeached when the Republicans, both in the senate and maybe a third (?) of their voters, were finally forced by the Democrats to admit he needed to be. This current set is so intensely corrupt that no behavior or crimes could be too damaging to the nation or unprincipled for McConnell and company, but his and their own survival is always an issue for them.
Not to hope too much that Trump himself will continue accelerating our case for removal. Trump isn't insane, and if he doesn't decompensate too much his self-protective instincts will take over. My best guess is with help he'll be able to calm down and pull it in (at least enough to be appear "Normal Trump" and that he'll be persuaded to take on another Kelly-type chief of staff to restore an appearance of order.
We live in interesting times...
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)He quit when it was obvious he would be. I don't see that ever happening with Trump, although he could decline to run again. I really don't see that happening either. Maybe he's not "insane," but he is very far from normal. I don't see him becoming "Normal Trump," whatever that is. When has he ever "dialed it back?" He'll double down. And do you REALLY believe he could "be persuaded" (by WHOM?) to take on a chief of staff who'd restore even the "appearance of order"????? That doesn't fit with the Trump that he's always been.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)you're forgetting how often Trump is persuaded to do things he doesn't want to do, including backtracking on his own decisions. Very often, often daily, sometimes two or three times a day. In fact, he's famously weak and persuadable, both to the point of being manifestations of disorder.
Dissuaded from things he wants to do -- Previously frequently when Kelly and other handlers were there. Currently a whole lot less, and then often after he's already stepped in it. But like persuading, dissuading has been going on constantly since he was sworn in. SOP for that WH.
So yes. And there'd certainly be nothing new to taking on a new chief of staff. He's had 3 so far, remember, including acting chief Mulvaney, and he famously didn't want any of them. He was persuaded.
KEEPING him persuaded - Now that's a whole different matter. But apparently not always completely impossible.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)You make a point, but it's sure exhausting and nerve-wracking!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)our grandchildren growing up with this image of America, the oldest are turning 13, and of course the danger that it could become much worse if we don't get control. At least we know what it's supposed to be.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)My only child is a daughter who has always been positive she didn't want kids and has now passed forty. Unbelievably it even caused a breakup with one long term serious boyfriend, who ended up marrying a young woman who already had two kids. I do have grand nieces and nephews and former students just starting families. I worry about what they're facing. Parents of our generation were able to give us more education and advantages than they'd had for which they'd saved or taken out reasonable loans. Our generation, usually much more affluent, and saving early on for our kids, found our kids still saddled with the dreaded COLLAGE LOANS that follow behind the unbelievable chaos happening...apparently it's now OK to be total ignorant (behavior -wise). Finding a job, making a living? Harder and harder regardless,,,,,
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)it's been done before. But will we with the current insanity of 40% being manipulated by the worst of themselves, plus other enemies foreign and domestic, to destroy us from within?
Just heard that Tucker Carlson, who'd been advising the POTUS to get rid of his national security adviser (!!), described Bolton as "a man of the left."
Oh, well. Have a nice 9/11.
spanone
(135,830 posts)HAB911
(8,890 posts)FM123
(10,053 posts)Between fox news "talking back" to him, Sharpie lovers laughing at him, and republican candidates running against him - these recent little pushes have left him dangling by his teeny tiny fingertips. Impeachment inquiries would just push him over the edge...
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)FM123
(10,053 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(16,784 posts)Opening more of the Pandora's Box will reveal corruption within the Republican Party as well.
Democrats need to do this. Let Trump tweet. It will show us and the world just how DANGEROUS and UNSTABLE he truly is.
Mister Ed
(5,930 posts)It's far from assured, but I have the feeling you're right, and that Trump's collapse will bring down the whole corrupt GOP - and its media propaganda machine as well.
OMGWTF
(3,955 posts)It's two years old but still relevant AF -- https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/03/gop-campaigns-took-7-35-million-from-oligarch-linked-to-russia/
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)kentuck
(111,089 posts)And that is a danger to us all.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,146 posts)It's not that they refueled in Scotland or Gatwick. It's not entirely what they paid for fuel, we know taxpayers got rolled.
Why were they overnighting at Scottish hotels? and apparently Trump Turnberry?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics/air-force-donald-trump-turnberry/index.html
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)crimes than the Mueller findings obstruction examples, and growing! They should pick out the most recent crimes that they can get witnesses for first. The longer it takes to pull together a case against him for a particular crime, the longer trump has to roadblock it.
Example: Abuse of power..
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/trump-border-wall-election-day/index.html
Washington Post: Trump told officials he would pardon them if they break the law building border wall
brutus smith
(685 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)expedite this process and push it forward despite trump's legal obstruction.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)We know his heart is in the right place and he is attempting to do what is best for his country, I do believe.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)House Democrats' legal fight to force public testimony from a witness to possible obstruction of justice by President Donald Trump will last until at least Oct. 31, according to a schedule issued by a federal judge Tuesday.
Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson's timetable will put a significant squeeze on lawmakers considering articles of impeachment against Trump; the House's 2019 schedule includes just 16 days in session after Halloween. Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler has indicated he believes his committee could decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment against Trump before the House departs for the year on Dec. 12.
dchill
(38,481 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Get every key witness out there in front, under pain of imprisonment, and force them to tell the truth.
The most important part of this is the money. Get the damned tax returns by hook or by crook. Get his bank statements. Put it all out there in public.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)I think they deserve a certain amount of privacy, considering their positions.
However, all others could be public, I would think?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)kentuck
(111,089 posts)Just my opinion.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)malaise
(268,967 posts)Fret and sweat MoFo!
bdamomma
(63,845 posts)title of article:
Trumps collapsing presidency has plunged him into his eccentric dictator phase: GOP consultant
snip of article:
In yet another scorching column for the Daily Beast, GOP consultant Rick Wilson used Donald Trumps obsession with maintaining he was correct about Hurricane Dorian hitting Alabama as evidence that he gone completely off the rails and into his reality.
According to Wilson, That bellowing you hear from the Oval Office may sound like the rantings of a kooky slowcoach accidental president of limited cognitive abilities. You could ascribe it to his obsessions and twitching, reflexive rages over even the slightest correction or disagreement as an act. We could blame it all on whatever slurry of toupee worms, mental illness, creeping dementia, tertiary syphilis, scurvy, and windmill cancer occupies his wee noggin, but its so much more, and its so much worse.
Noting what has become known as Sharpiegate, after the president was busted for altering an official weather map to make his point about Alabama, Wilson said it is evidence of the presidents decline.
Trump has entered the eccentric dictator phase of his presidency, so strap in, he warned. From Stalin to Mao to Mugabe to Pol Pot to Saddam to Trumps sleepover bestie Kim Jong Un, Donalds defining emotion is not contempt, but envy. These men enjoyed the life of power, wealth, control and freedom from accountability that fills Trumps political spank bank.
Wilson also noted Trumps often-expressed desire to stay in office in perpetuity, writing, Trumps joking references to a third term are growing in number and intensity, and some part of his rat-nest consciousness is thinking, I bet I could get away with it. The 2020 efforts to kill off the Republican primary to clear the field for Trump are a preview. I mean, why bother with elections when theres so much winning going on?
We need to get this monster out.
Someone needs to take the nuclear football away from him.
The Dangerous Case of Donnie
bdamomma
(63,845 posts)if he says that and then back down saying it was a joke??? he's stupid enough to do that, but will others realize how dangerous this POS is.
CanonRay
(14,101 posts)Send the bastard over the cliff.
Bettie
(16,095 posts)vacation today or later this week?
I hope they get to work on this very soon.
DemoTex
(25,396 posts)All the cards. Under the bright lights of teevee cameras.
not_the_one
(2,227 posts)I want to see a LIVE melt-down on the teevee, on a loop, running round the clock,
even on FOX NEWS... (although I won't be watching FOX NEWS, even I have SOME standards...)
I'll even opt for the BUCKET of HEAVILY BUTTERED POPCORN, a mega size DIET 7UP (gotta watch the calories, you know...) and be wearing THREE pairs of "depends" (a trademarked product created for football game watchers) for the duration. I won't miss a minute of this "must watch teevee" event.
I say BRING. IT. ON.!!! (squish...)
CrispyQ
(36,461 posts)They need to do it.
brutus smith
(685 posts)And to the fence riding congressmen: time to do what's right.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)vapor2
(1,245 posts)Call Pelosi and persuade her to get on board and stop wasting time........
202 225-4965
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and the lawyers that report to her wouldn't be in court trying to get the grand jury materials for the Judiciary Committee to use in it's impeachment inquiry.
A better use of your time would be to do d out which Members who say they wouldn't vote to impeach and call them.
democrank
(11,094 posts)Impeach that thug!
CaptainTruth
(6,589 posts)They also know that if they impeach "now," more than a year before the election, then the Senate acquits Trump, it will be a forgotten non-issue for average voters come election time. And what should their plan be post-Senate acquittal? Continue to investigate in an attempt to impeach a second time? That's not a winning strategy.
Worse yet, the Constitution doesn't *require* the Senate to hold an impeachment trial, so as best as I can determine McConnell could sit on it & do nothing, just like he did with the Merrick Garland nomination. He could say it's all politically motivated & the Senate isn't going to take it seriously & act on it. Again, as best as I've been able to determine, when the House votes on articles of impeachment all other investigations into POTUS (those not directly part of an article of impeachment) have to stop. If McConnell sits on the impeachment articles & does nothing the impeachment is technically still "in process," so McConnell could try & use that as a way to stop all investigations into Trump.
They know McConnell. They saw what happened to Merrick Garland. They don't want to hand McConnell a weapon he can use to protect Trump. I'm convinced dropping the impeachment bomb closer to the election is strategically the smartest thing to do to put Trump, McConnell, & the whole GOP in the worst possible position.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They only get one bite at the apple. If they impeach and he's not removed, any attempt to continue investigations will be a non-starter.
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax ...
You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talking a lot but you're not saying anything ...
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ...
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)Never that big a hit in the Seventies, suddenly it appears prescient to the happenings that keep going on today. A stretch, I know, but there it is. Weird.
cab67
(2,992 posts)...he could end up escaping prosecution, at least in the courts. A good lawyer could probably have him found incompetent to stand trial.
That could never happen. He clearly knows "right" from "wrong," and that is the only legal standard. Being a liar and/or an asshole can not be used in his defense. There is zero chance, at most, that any lawyer could possibly have him found incompetent to stand trial.
cab67
(2,992 posts)I'm not talking about an insanity plea. I'm talking about the ability to defend himself in court.
This came up after Iran-Contra. By then, Reagan's Alzheimer's was really beginning to outwardly manifest itself. His memory was Swiss cheese. Whether he told the truth or not would not have been irrelevant.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)And no one ever considered criminal charges against him. More, the Democrats in DC were not interested in impeaching him. That is a situation that is totally distinct from Trump.
Trump is a sociopath. While it is true that defense lawyers never find dealing with sociopaths to be pleasant, and that their constant lying makes defending them even more difficult than defending the normal guilty person, it is not a legal defense.
cab67
(2,992 posts)The problem is that he's a sociopath who seems to be losing whatever grip on reality he may have had. Early-stage dementia cannot actually be ruled out for him at this point.
Please understand - I'm not saying I don't want him prosecuted. I do. I just worry that it might not be possible.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)of mental decline other than what is expected for men his age. The recent episodes that demonstrate a stark detachment from reality are the product of a sociopath under pressure. In some cases, a sociopath experiences (realitively) brief periods of psychosis, yet still know right from wrong. Hence, 37 of the top psychiatric professionals in the nation have warned the country in the book, "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump."
While it is true that any lawyer can find a psychiatrist or psychologist who will say anything for a fee, there are -- especially in this case -- solid ones available to the prosecutors and courts. Hence, the ceiling on the possibility of Trump avoiding consequences should he be charged criminally, is zero.
The chances that the legal system would not ever charge an ex-president is clearly an issue, though. Still, I say bring the guilty bastard in here, and we'll give him a fair trial.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)I wish that I could "recommend" this a thousand times.
Trump is, as many of us have discussed here, a sociopath. He bends mentally under pressure. An impeachment would break him.
Also, I believe in following the Constitution.
Blue Owl
(50,356 posts)5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)means life in prison, I am on board.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I don't care where he ends up, just so he's never again heard from again. Can we exile anyone COMPLETELY from ALL social media?
volstork
(5,400 posts)he likely takes us with him.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)spanone
(135,830 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,680 posts)And hold up a folded piece of paper saying it was signed by the king of mars, asking him to build hotels and golf courses there.
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)But we should do it anyway. He's unfit and dangerous. Full stop.
I feel like if we lose because of impeachment, the America we imagine is already gone. But it's better to know, either way. :p
bucolic_frolic
(43,146 posts)and win an election he lost, can make anything happen.
Be very fearful. And vote like you life depends on it. Because it does.