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kentuck

(111,089 posts)
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:30 AM Sep 2019

An official impeachment inquiry would send Trump completely over the edge.

He is close already.

In the last few weeks, anonymous White House staff have told sources that he has become unhinged, ranting about everything, and nobody can talk to him. They are very concerned.

He did not handle the Hurricane well. Some wondered if he was even getting updates about it, after he made a confusing comment about Alabama? He was commenting on news that was 4 or 5 days old. he was unable to show any empathy for the victims, but that was nothing new.

The job appears to be more than he can handle, mentally. It's difficult when the president is a control freak.

But, if an official impeachment inquiry is announced, it may become more than he can handle? He could lose it. And he is a very unpredictable individual.

Nadler and the Judiciary need to have a very well-planned strategy, if they go down this road? They need a larger list of witnesses to be subpoenaed and they need to be ready to immediately go to the Courts to get their approvals of the subpoenas. They will need to inform the possible witnesses that failure to follow a Court order can lead to fine and/or imprisonment.

They need to follow a very aggressive path to get witnesses in front of them as soon as possible. The Mueller investigation is over and they are still processing the information within the Report. It will still be part of any larger investigation that might happen.

Corruption must be attacked very aggressively. That is what emoluments is about. Money is being made in a corrupt way. They should subpoena the Air Force crewman that were on the last flight to Scotland and find out what they know about the diversion to a Trump business, in my opinion. They should go out immediately. They should do it behind closed doors.

Impeachment must begin now.

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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An official impeachment inquiry would send Trump completely over the edge. (Original Post) kentuck Sep 2019 OP
Nadler, Pelosi, et Al, seem to know very well what they need to do and are doing it StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #1
+1000. ehrnst Sep 2019 #10
Well this should send him "over the edge." real Cannabis calm Sep 2019 #42
:) Of course. One of their tactics has to involve the possibility Hortensis Sep 2019 #37
Nixon was never impeached. maddiemom Sep 2019 #58
Right, in advance of impeachment. For the rest, Hortensis Sep 2019 #64
I don't disagree w/you. maddiemom Sep 2019 #66
Oh, man, yes. I resent and regret more and more Hortensis Sep 2019 #67
I Know! The last few years I've stopped regretting that I probably will never have grandkids. maddiemom Sep 2019 #68
Yes. We can turn all this around, and amazingly fast, Hortensis Sep 2019 #69
K&R... spanone Sep 2019 #2
Let's get it on! HAB911 Sep 2019 #3
Completely over the edge. FM123 Sep 2019 #4
Let's hope he takes the entire Trump-publican Party down with him FakeNoose Sep 2019 #25
Yep - flush them all FM123 Sep 2019 #29
Trump will go down and he will take the GOP down with him.... ProudMNDemocrat Sep 2019 #5
That has been my hope and my belief all along. Mister Ed Sep 2019 #15
Ever read this Dallas Morning News article about Republicans and Russian Mob Money? OMGWTF Sep 2019 #36
And you think that would be a *good* thing? ehrnst Sep 2019 #6
No. I think he is a very unpredictable individual. kentuck Sep 2019 #7
Thanks for the clarification. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2019 #8
You mean the guy who calls himself the chosen one isn't over the edge already? uponit7771 Sep 2019 #9
It's a pick and choose menu, all you need is a couple good a la carte items bucolic_frolic Sep 2019 #11
If it was all laid out, there are probably more worse Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2019 #18
Absolutely! brutus smith Sep 2019 #35
Very well put! I am hopeful we can count on Rep Nadler to Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2019 #12
I'm hoping Nadler has the strength and stamina to see this thru. kentuck Sep 2019 #13
He's got some great committee people too. Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2019 #17
Testimony from McGahn matter won't be decided until at least 10-31 Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2019 #14
All of the above. dchill Sep 2019 #16
NOT behind closed doors. lagomorph777 Sep 2019 #19
Just the Air Force crew. kentuck Sep 2019 #20
Especially not the Air Force crew. Give them whistleblower protection. Find out who gave the order lagomorph777 Sep 2019 #21
I think we need to be very careful not to make the military too political. kentuck Sep 2019 #22
Too late; Trump's already done it. Need to unravel the politicization. lagomorph777 Sep 2019 #23
Justice is coming malaise Sep 2019 #24
He's over the edge now. bdamomma Sep 2019 #26
+1 area51 Sep 2019 #32
that may be the last straw bdamomma Sep 2019 #43
Then fredo it! CanonRay Sep 2019 #27
Do they come back from Bettie Sep 2019 #28
Get the cards on the table. DemoTex Sep 2019 #30
then WTF are we waiting for??? not_the_one Sep 2019 #31
He will obsess on it. The stress will eat him from the inside. CrispyQ Sep 2019 #33
Past time. Impeach now brutus smith Sep 2019 #34
Yes. And Katy Tur said this morning Pelosi not on board yet. Laura PourMeADrink Sep 2019 #48
call Pelosi vapor2 Sep 2019 #61
If she weren't on board, the Judiciary Committee wouldn't be moving forward StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #62
Let's go! democrank Sep 2019 #38
They know all of this, & the process began weeks ago. CaptainTruth Sep 2019 #39
This StarfishSaver Sep 2019 #46
... struggle4progress Sep 2019 #40
Amazing how this song has wormed its way into so many situations today. maddiemom Sep 2019 #59
depending on how badly he loses it... cab67 Sep 2019 #41
Nope. H2O Man Sep 2019 #45
That's the threshold for insanity. cab67 Sep 2019 #47
Reagan had dementia. H2O Man Sep 2019 #49
I agree completely that Trump is a sociopath. cab67 Sep 2019 #50
Trump shows little sign H2O Man Sep 2019 #51
Recommended. H2O Man Sep 2019 #44
The Final Coountdown Blue Owl Sep 2019 #52
If, over the edge, warmfeet Sep 2019 #53
Just make him GO AWAY. maddiemom Sep 2019 #60
Unfortunately, if he goes over the edge, volstork Sep 2019 #54
Make it So... yuiyoshida Sep 2019 #55
IT'S COMING spanone Sep 2019 #56
He'll announce peace talk negotiations with the king of Mars. lindysalsagal Sep 2019 #57
I'm torn. Fighting is his FAVORITE thing. It will give him a talking point for Every Day. Ughhhhhhhh NCLefty Sep 2019 #63
A man who can move hurricanes with a Sharpie bucolic_frolic Sep 2019 #65
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
1. Nadler, Pelosi, et Al, seem to know very well what they need to do and are doing it
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:34 AM
Sep 2019

Notwithstanding those who focus on second-guessing and criticizing them at every turn.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212448998

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
37. :) Of course. One of their tactics has to involve the possibility
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 12:05 PM
Sep 2019

that the OP headline raised, that Trump would respond with increasingly disordered behavior. No doubt they have psychiatrists evaluating him constantly these days, and we know they've been manipulating Trump with push-pull tactics for some time.

They're doing the same with the Republican leadership. Nixon was impeached when the Republicans, both in the senate and maybe a third (?) of their voters, were finally forced by the Democrats to admit he needed to be. This current set is so intensely corrupt that no behavior or crimes could be too damaging to the nation or unprincipled for McConnell and company, but his and their own survival is always an issue for them.

Not to hope too much that Trump himself will continue accelerating our case for removal. Trump isn't insane, and if he doesn't decompensate too much his self-protective instincts will take over. My best guess is with help he'll be able to calm down and pull it in (at least enough to be appear "Normal Trump&quot and that he'll be persuaded to take on another Kelly-type chief of staff to restore an appearance of order.

We live in interesting times...

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
58. Nixon was never impeached.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 10:49 PM
Sep 2019

He quit when it was obvious he would be. I don't see that ever happening with Trump, although he could decline to run again. I really don't see that happening either. Maybe he's not "insane," but he is very far from normal. I don't see him becoming "Normal Trump," whatever that is. When has he ever "dialed it back?" He'll double down. And do you REALLY believe he could "be persuaded" (by WHOM?) to take on a chief of staff who'd restore even the "appearance of order"????? That doesn't fit with the Trump that he's always been.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
64. Right, in advance of impeachment. For the rest,
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 03:56 AM
Sep 2019

you're forgetting how often Trump is persuaded to do things he doesn't want to do, including backtracking on his own decisions. Very often, often daily, sometimes two or three times a day. In fact, he's famously weak and persuadable, both to the point of being manifestations of disorder.

Dissuaded from things he wants to do -- Previously frequently when Kelly and other handlers were there. Currently a whole lot less, and then often after he's already stepped in it. But like persuading, dissuading has been going on constantly since he was sworn in. SOP for that WH.

So yes. And there'd certainly be nothing new to taking on a new chief of staff. He's had 3 so far, remember, including acting chief Mulvaney, and he famously didn't want any of them. He was persuaded.

KEEPING him persuaded - Now that's a whole different matter. But apparently not always completely impossible.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
67. Oh, man, yes. I resent and regret more and more
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 10:12 AM
Sep 2019

our grandchildren growing up with this image of America, the oldest are turning 13, and of course the danger that it could become much worse if we don't get control. At least we know what it's supposed to be.



maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
68. I Know! The last few years I've stopped regretting that I probably will never have grandkids.
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 11:30 PM
Sep 2019

My only child is a daughter who has always been positive she didn't want kids and has now passed forty. Unbelievably it even caused a breakup with one long term serious boyfriend, who ended up marrying a young woman who already had two kids. I do have grand nieces and nephews and former students just starting families. I worry about what they're facing. Parents of our generation were able to give us more education and advantages than they'd had for which they'd saved or taken out reasonable loans. Our generation, usually much more affluent, and saving early on for our kids, found our kids still saddled with the dreaded COLLAGE LOANS that follow behind the unbelievable chaos happening...apparently it's now OK to be total ignorant (behavior -wise). Finding a job, making a living? Harder and harder regardless,,,,,

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
69. Yes. We can turn all this around, and amazingly fast,
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 06:38 AM
Sep 2019

it's been done before. But will we with the current insanity of 40% being manipulated by the worst of themselves, plus other enemies foreign and domestic, to destroy us from within?

Just heard that Tucker Carlson, who'd been advising the POTUS to get rid of his national security adviser (!!), described Bolton as "a man of the left."

Oh, well. Have a nice 9/11.

FM123

(10,053 posts)
4. Completely over the edge.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:46 AM
Sep 2019

Between fox news "talking back" to him, Sharpie lovers laughing at him, and republican candidates running against him - these recent little pushes have left him dangling by his teeny tiny fingertips. Impeachment inquiries would just push him over the edge...

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,784 posts)
5. Trump will go down and he will take the GOP down with him....
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:57 AM
Sep 2019

Opening more of the Pandora's Box will reveal corruption within the Republican Party as well.

Democrats need to do this. Let Trump tweet. It will show us and the world just how DANGEROUS and UNSTABLE he truly is.

Mister Ed

(5,930 posts)
15. That has been my hope and my belief all along.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:29 AM
Sep 2019

It's far from assured, but I have the feeling you're right, and that Trump's collapse will bring down the whole corrupt GOP - and its media propaganda machine as well.

bucolic_frolic

(43,146 posts)
11. It's a pick and choose menu, all you need is a couple good a la carte items
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:16 AM
Sep 2019

It's not that they refueled in Scotland or Gatwick. It's not entirely what they paid for fuel, we know taxpayers got rolled.

Why were they overnighting at Scottish hotels? and apparently Trump Turnberry?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/08/politics/air-force-donald-trump-turnberry/index.html

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
18. If it was all laid out, there are probably more worse
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:49 AM
Sep 2019

crimes than the Mueller findings obstruction examples, and growing! They should pick out the most recent crimes that they can get witnesses for first. The longer it takes to pull together a case against him for a particular crime, the longer trump has to roadblock it.

Example: Abuse of power..
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/politics/trump-border-wall-election-day/index.html
Washington Post: Trump told officials he would pardon them if they break the law building border wall



 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
12. Very well put! I am hopeful we can count on Rep Nadler to
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:18 AM
Sep 2019

expedite this process and push it forward despite trump's legal obstruction.

kentuck

(111,089 posts)
13. I'm hoping Nadler has the strength and stamina to see this thru.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:25 AM
Sep 2019

We know his heart is in the right place and he is attempting to do what is best for his country, I do believe.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
14. Testimony from McGahn matter won't be decided until at least 10-31
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:28 AM
Sep 2019

House Democrats' legal fight to force public testimony from a witness to possible obstruction of justice by President Donald Trump will last until at least Oct. 31, according to a schedule issued by a federal judge Tuesday.

Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson's timetable will put a significant squeeze on lawmakers considering articles of impeachment against Trump; the House's 2019 schedule includes just 16 days in session after Halloween. Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler has indicated he believes his committee could decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment against Trump before the House departs for the year on Dec. 12.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
19. NOT behind closed doors.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:55 AM
Sep 2019

Get every key witness out there in front, under pain of imprisonment, and force them to tell the truth.

The most important part of this is the money. Get the damned tax returns by hook or by crook. Get his bank statements. Put it all out there in public.

kentuck

(111,089 posts)
20. Just the Air Force crew.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 09:59 AM
Sep 2019

I think they deserve a certain amount of privacy, considering their positions.

However, all others could be public, I would think?

bdamomma

(63,845 posts)
26. He's over the edge now.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 10:19 AM
Sep 2019
https://www.alternet.org/2019/09/trumps-collapsing-presidency-has-plunged-him-into-his-eccentric-dictator-phase-gop-consultant/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1398

title of article:

Trump’s collapsing presidency has plunged him into his ‘eccentric dictator’ phase: GOP consultant

snip of article:


In yet another scorching column for the Daily Beast, GOP consultant Rick Wilson used Donald Trump’s obsession with maintaining he was correct about Hurricane Dorian hitting Alabama as evidence that he gone completely off the rails and into his reality.

According to Wilson, “That bellowing you hear from the Oval Office may sound like the rantings of a kooky slowcoach accidental president of limited cognitive abilities. You could ascribe it to his obsessions and twitching, reflexive rages over even the slightest correction or disagreement as an act. We could blame it all on whatever slurry of toupee worms, mental illness, creeping dementia, tertiary syphilis, scurvy, and windmill cancer occupies his wee noggin, but it’s so much more, and it’s so much worse.”

Noting what has become known as “Sharpiegate,” after the president was busted for altering an official weather map to make his point about Alabama, Wilson said it is evidence of the president’s decline.

“Trump has entered the eccentric dictator phase of his presidency, so strap in,” he warned. “From Stalin to Mao to Mugabe to Pol Pot to Saddam to Trump’s sleepover bestie Kim Jong Un, Donald’s defining emotion is not contempt, but envy. These men enjoyed the life of power, wealth, control and freedom from accountability that fills Trump’s political spank bank.”

Wilson also noted Trump’s often-expressed desire to stay in office in perpetuity, writing, “Trump’s joking references to a third term are growing in number and intensity, and some part of his rat-nest consciousness is thinking, “I bet I could get away with it.” The 2020 efforts to kill off the Republican primary to clear the field for Trump are a preview. I mean, why bother with elections when there’s so much winning going on? ”



We need to get this monster out.

bdamomma

(63,845 posts)
43. that may be the last straw
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 02:22 PM
Sep 2019

if he says that and then back down saying it was a joke??? he's stupid enough to do that, but will others realize how dangerous this POS is.

Bettie

(16,095 posts)
28. Do they come back from
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 10:26 AM
Sep 2019

vacation today or later this week?

I hope they get to work on this very soon.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
31. then WTF are we waiting for???
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 10:42 AM
Sep 2019

I want to see a LIVE melt-down on the teevee, on a loop, running round the clock,
even on FOX NEWS... (although I won't be watching FOX NEWS, even I have SOME standards...)

I'll even opt for the BUCKET of HEAVILY BUTTERED POPCORN, a mega size DIET 7UP (gotta watch the calories, you know...) and be wearing THREE pairs of "depends" (a trademarked product created for football game watchers) for the duration. I won't miss a minute of this "must watch teevee" event.

I say BRING. IT. ON.!!! (squish...)

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
62. If she weren't on board, the Judiciary Committee wouldn't be moving forward
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 01:35 AM
Sep 2019

and the lawyers that report to her wouldn't be in court trying to get the grand jury materials for the Judiciary Committee to use in it's impeachment inquiry.

A better use of your time would be to do d out which Members who say they wouldn't vote to impeach and call them.

CaptainTruth

(6,589 posts)
39. They know all of this, & the process began weeks ago.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 12:47 PM
Sep 2019

They also know that if they impeach "now," more than a year before the election, then the Senate acquits Trump, it will be a forgotten non-issue for average voters come election time. And what should their plan be post-Senate acquittal? Continue to investigate in an attempt to impeach a second time? That's not a winning strategy.

Worse yet, the Constitution doesn't *require* the Senate to hold an impeachment trial, so as best as I can determine McConnell could sit on it & do nothing, just like he did with the Merrick Garland nomination. He could say it's all politically motivated & the Senate isn't going to take it seriously & act on it. Again, as best as I've been able to determine, when the House votes on articles of impeachment all other investigations into POTUS (those not directly part of an article of impeachment) have to stop. If McConnell sits on the impeachment articles & does nothing the impeachment is technically still "in process," so McConnell could try & use that as a way to stop all investigations into Trump.

They know McConnell. They saw what happened to Merrick Garland. They don't want to hand McConnell a weapon he can use to protect Trump. I'm convinced dropping the impeachment bomb closer to the election is strategically the smartest thing to do to put Trump, McConnell, & the whole GOP in the worst possible position.
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
46. This
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 02:30 PM
Sep 2019

They only get one bite at the apple. If they impeach and he's not removed, any attempt to continue investigations will be a non-starter.

struggle4progress

(118,282 posts)
40. ...
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 12:54 PM
Sep 2019


I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax ...

You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talking a lot but you're not saying anything ...

Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away ...

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
59. Amazing how this song has wormed its way into so many situations today.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 11:13 PM
Sep 2019

Never that big a hit in the Seventies, suddenly it appears prescient to the happenings that keep going on today. A stretch, I know, but there it is. Weird.

cab67

(2,992 posts)
41. depending on how badly he loses it...
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 12:54 PM
Sep 2019

...he could end up escaping prosecution, at least in the courts. A good lawyer could probably have him found incompetent to stand trial.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
45. Nope.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 02:28 PM
Sep 2019

That could never happen. He clearly knows "right" from "wrong," and that is the only legal standard. Being a liar and/or an asshole can not be used in his defense. There is zero chance, at most, that any lawyer could possibly have him found incompetent to stand trial.

cab67

(2,992 posts)
47. That's the threshold for insanity.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 03:35 PM
Sep 2019

I'm not talking about an insanity plea. I'm talking about the ability to defend himself in court.

This came up after Iran-Contra. By then, Reagan's Alzheimer's was really beginning to outwardly manifest itself. His memory was Swiss cheese. Whether he told the truth or not would not have been irrelevant.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
49. Reagan had dementia.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 04:09 PM
Sep 2019

And no one ever considered criminal charges against him. More, the Democrats in DC were not interested in impeaching him. That is a situation that is totally distinct from Trump.

Trump is a sociopath. While it is true that defense lawyers never find dealing with sociopaths to be pleasant, and that their constant lying makes defending them even more difficult than defending the normal guilty person, it is not a legal defense.

cab67

(2,992 posts)
50. I agree completely that Trump is a sociopath.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 04:32 PM
Sep 2019

The problem is that he's a sociopath who seems to be losing whatever grip on reality he may have had. Early-stage dementia cannot actually be ruled out for him at this point.

Please understand - I'm not saying I don't want him prosecuted. I do. I just worry that it might not be possible.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
51. Trump shows little sign
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 04:53 PM
Sep 2019

of mental decline other than what is expected for men his age. The recent episodes that demonstrate a stark detachment from reality are the product of a sociopath under pressure. In some cases, a sociopath experiences (realitively) brief periods of psychosis, yet still know right from wrong. Hence, 37 of the top psychiatric professionals in the nation have warned the country in the book, "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump."

While it is true that any lawyer can find a psychiatrist or psychologist who will say anything for a fee, there are -- especially in this case -- solid ones available to the prosecutors and courts. Hence, the ceiling on the possibility of Trump avoiding consequences should he be charged criminally, is zero.

The chances that the legal system would not ever charge an ex-president is clearly an issue, though. Still, I say bring the guilty bastard in here, and we'll give him a fair trial.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
44. Recommended.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 02:25 PM
Sep 2019

I wish that I could "recommend" this a thousand times.

Trump is, as many of us have discussed here, a sociopath. He bends mentally under pressure. An impeachment would break him.

Also, I believe in following the Constitution.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
60. Just make him GO AWAY.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 11:23 PM
Sep 2019

I don't care where he ends up, just so he's never again heard from again. Can we exile anyone COMPLETELY from ALL social media?

lindysalsagal

(20,680 posts)
57. He'll announce peace talk negotiations with the king of Mars.
Mon Sep 9, 2019, 08:07 PM
Sep 2019

And hold up a folded piece of paper saying it was signed by the king of mars, asking him to build hotels and golf courses there.

NCLefty

(3,678 posts)
63. I'm torn. Fighting is his FAVORITE thing. It will give him a talking point for Every Day. Ughhhhhhhh
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 01:53 AM
Sep 2019

But we should do it anyway. He's unfit and dangerous. Full stop.

I feel like if we lose because of impeachment, the America we imagine is already gone. But it's better to know, either way. :p

bucolic_frolic

(43,146 posts)
65. A man who can move hurricanes with a Sharpie
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 07:26 AM
Sep 2019

and win an election he lost, can make anything happen.

Be very fearful. And vote like you life depends on it. Because it does.

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