So over the past three weeks I have asked the big boys a questions about the use of the word "bitch"

[efhmc]

on DU. I still do not have an answer. Perhaps others can give me an answer. Is one allowed to use this term ever, anywhere and at any time? I have seen it used and cannot believe anyone or anything which thinks it an progressive site allow its usage.

[hlthe2b]

1. It is a word for which you certainly can alert. There are some here who might justify its use, but

it is offensive to many and they take their chances doing so.

[efhmc]

7. I did not alert because I did not know if it was allowed for general use.

I asked for a clarification and never got an answer. The term was used for a man but should not make any difference.

[FBaggins]

117. But that's the point of an alert

It’s a pseudo-democratic way gleaning community standards and sharing them with those who use such language.

If you really want to know what DU thinks about it... alert. A question or a poll only tells you the opinion of those who are willing to engage on the topic.

For me it’s enough that some people find it offensive And I don’t think that’s unreasonable... but I disagree that it in the same category as most of the other words you mentioned.

[efhmc]

122. I was not asking for opinions, I wanted a clarification on rules.

[FBaggins]

135. Then you don't understand how the site works

The forum rules call for civility and that there should be no bigotry or insensitivity and that sexism is out.

What the rules don't do is give you a list of words that are unacceptable for use on the forum. That's left to the jury process as a way of identifying community standards for acceptable behavior. If the vast majority of the forum agrees with you, then the usage of that word will result in frequent alerts and frequent hides. Offenders will be on notice and will eventually lose their posting privileges if they continue. If the vast majority of the forum disagrees with you then the word will remain and most posts that you alert on will not be removed... and those using the word will not receive feedback implying that the word is inappropriate.

Interestingly enough... there's a different rule that you should read:

Don't interfere with forum moderation

Don't post messages about site rules, enforcement, juries, hosts, administration, alerts, alerters, removed posts, appeals, locked threads, or anything else related to how this website is moderated (except in the Ask the Administrators forum).

Why we have this rule: The purpose of Democratic Underground is to discuss politics, issues, and current events. Open discussion of how the website is run tends to distract from our core purpose.

[efhmc]

138. Please see post 129. That is the info I wanted.

[FBaggins]

140. That's the same info (without the dishonest spin) that I gave you in 122

There is no list of banned words. Community standards are determined through a democratic process that actually includes the standards of the community (rather than the dictates of "the big boys" ).

It's dishonest to spin that as "okayed", "refused" or "states rights"... but feel free to spin it however you like. It is, however, flat wrong to claim (as you did in #137) that there was an administrative decision allowing its use. That would mean that if you alert and the jury chooses to hide... the administration would un-hide the post (which is flat untrue).

If you find the community standards of DU to be unacceptable to you... you are free to set up your own forum and see who wants to join.

[guillaumeb]

2. I do not use it.

But context is crucial.

[Blue_true]

23. Same here. nt

[emulatorloo]

3. Alert on it n/t

[tirebiter]

4. Trump is a whiny bitch

Any argument about that?

[hlthe2b]

9. It is inappropriate because it is a gender-associated slur. You don't simply demean Trump, but women

in general. So, yes, you might well be alerted for this post and you'd take your chances with the jury. (BTW, you have a chance to edit your post to avoid that, if you so desire)

[Fullduplexxx]

11. How does bitch demean women in general ? Saying that implies all women are bitches

And if i recall bitch is a female dog

[hlthe2b]

13. You aren't referring to a dog. I'm not going to argue about use of this term any more than the "c"

"word," "f_g" word, "n" word or any other slur. Grow up.

[Blue_true]

27. The early use of the word to refer to humans was aimed at women.

I grew up poor. I heard the word used a lot to refer to women, often by men who were violent toward women.

Today, the word has a more complex range of meanings, some of which are not intended to demean women.

[pnwmom]

101. You can call him a DOG. Calling him the word for a female dog is a slur against females.

"Bitch" is a slur against females.

[obamanut2012]

131. Just stop, it is a gendered slur and you know it

So tired of these sexist arguments.

[FoxNewsSucks]

15. It doesn't say anything about women,

it's an opinion on MF45's chronic behavior. I know exactly what is meant by that phrase, and MF45 deserves it.

I could write a paragraph describing his behavior, but those two words convey understanding immediately. To me, it only insults him, and he's too narcissistic to notice or care.

[hlthe2b]

16. Feel free. Call me one. See how the DU community feels about it. You have been forewarned.

[FoxNewsSucks]

17. I don't have any reason to. That's my point.

Sorry you don't see that

[hlthe2b]

25. Sorry you don't believe in respect for others by not using terms that are construed as

gender, race or ethnic slurs.

[FoxNewsSucks]

34. It refers to behavior.

Everyone knows exactly what kind of behavior is being referenced by that word. Just like calling some guy an "asshole" or "dickhead".

It's not about their gender, it's about behavior.

If words are used to be deliberately insulting because someone is female, or male, as I said, that is wrong and should be removed. But implying that the word automatically insults all females is basically saying that it applies to all females. I don't think it does. Do you?

Context. It's important.

[hlthe2b]

35. Keep telling yourself that and roll the dice.

If you want to demean others, including women, POC, LGBTQ, and ethnic groups, several Reditt subforums are there to cater to you.

Most here (including those on juries) feel differently. But, roll the dice. You never know.

[FoxNewsSucks]

38. I have no need for those forums,

because don't have anything against any of those groups. You shouldn't assume that I don't belong to any of them.

I'm offended by behavior, not words or gender or any other group.

[Dorian Gray]

115. I am one of those females who is not offended by the word....

Maybe I grew up hearing it too much and got desensitized. Who knows?

But arguing that it has nothing to do with gender is disingenuous. It's got EVERYTHING to do with gender. The behaviors you're saying it is used to attack are behaviors for which females are often criticized, and the insult of female dog is meant to be a bigger offense than just a dog.

Having said that, I still don't take offense. I didn't when Chrissy Tiegan called trump a "P---- A-- B----" (Two gendered insults).. But you have a whole slew of women telling you that they think it's offensive, so why the need to argue? Can't you just listen, take in what they're saying, and consider that maybe other people do find the word insulting? And if you still choose to use it... that's on you.

[G_j]

133. this

says it perfectly. Please try to respect others.

[efhmc]

136. I think you are correct. If someone tells you a term you use is disrespectful,

if you respect that person or that group, you will not use it. Continuing to use it not only clearly denotes disrespect but also shows that your opinion/usage is more important than your treatment of others.

[Dorian Gray]

154. Yes. Exactly.

[Bradical79]

68. The entire insult is based on a mysoginistic slur

That's why it's an insult. It's a comparison suggesting a man is a whiny woman. "Bitch" isn't some gender neutral term that manifested out of the ether.

It's meant to be emasculating.

[sheshe2]

87. Of course you would say:

FoxNewsSucks
15. It doesn't say anything about women,

You are a man. It says volumes that you will never understand.

I know exactly what is meant by that phrase, and MF45 deserves it.

No you do not know exactly what is meant by that phrase. How could you? You are not a female. Many men do understand that it is demeaning.

I could write a paragraph describing his behavior, but those two words convey understanding immediately.

They sure do convey understanding immediately.

To me, it only insults him, and he's too narcissistic to notice or care.

TO ME. Got it.

...……………...

definition of B***h

1. A female canine animal, especially a dog.
2. Offensive A woman considered to be mean, overbearing, or contemptible.
3. Vulgar Slang
a. A prostitute considered in relation to a pimp.
b. A person in a subservient sexual role, especially an incarcerated male who provides sex to another male under threat of violence or in exchange for protection.
c. A person who is submissive to another, usually by performing menial or unpleasant tasks.
d. A man considered to be weak or contemptible.
4. Slang A complaint.
5. Slang Something very unpleasant or difficult

C**T

1. Vulgar Slang The vagina or vulva.
2. Offensive Slang
a. Used as a disparaging term for a woman.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a person one dislikes or finds extremely disagreeable.

[obamanut2012]

132. Wrong, it is a gendered slur and you not only excusing it

You are fudging it. Educate yourself and stop. Just call him an asshole or whatever.

[efhmc]

18. No he is not because he is a creepy male and the term " bitch" denotes a female.

Why do xy people use pejorative terms that only have to do with those with no penises?

[tirebiter]

45. Trump is what he is

And he’s a whiny bitch.

[Tipperary]

89. Wow.

Another poster explained in detail why that term is offensive, yet you double down.

That speaks volumes. About you.

[Buzz cook]

88. With all due respect there are many penis related insults

Although you're right that insulting people with feminine slurs is very popular. They also have a rich history of use and are almost instinctively fixed in all cultures.

While I'm not a cultural relativist, I have to point out that other cultures are more free with some female anatomical insults. In Europe the C/word is a trivial insult used by both men and women, as an evening with British comedy reveals.

Don't know why that is because of the things I am not, sociologist is one.

As I said these insults are culturally in grained. That is in large part because they are effective. In a face to face confrontation there are few better ways to get a reaction from a man than to insult their masculinity. And as we know the opposite of masculine is feminine.
And so it goes. There are of course words that achieve the same effect, but many of them are quaint like "pantywaist" meaning childish. or overly complex like "your balls haven't dropped yet".

It would be nice if we were as witty as Samantha Bee and could call Trump a Cheetos colored shit gibbon off the cuff. But most of us are not that clever and so when we reach for an insult we tend to go with those that are reliable.

This is as true of women as it is of men.

[whathehell]

43. Yes, I have one: He's a male, so why use a slur insulting women?

Why should women be demeaned for this male?...Use a male perjorative -- If you can think of one.

[Mariana]

102. Implying that he is female is insulting, in and of itself.

It's a bad thing to be female, you see, hence the frequent use of feminine slurs to insult men.

[dflprincess]

79. I don't have a problem with that

I don't have a problem with the in general.

[obamanut2012]

130. Sexist at best, misogynistic at worst

You are using it as a gendered slur. Educate yourself and delete this.

[Kali]

5. there were some epic flame wars over this at one time

most here know it demeans women and don't use it other than as a quote or for other relevant discussion, some aren't at that level of understanding, and some don't give a shit. you risk a hide if a jury thinks it is out of line and somebody alerts on it.

[efhmc]

12. I know because I was a part of it.

Seems we are still okay with female prerogative terms on DU.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Unfortunately, yes.

Far too many members of DU are just fine, most of the time, with:

female derogation terms
using gay as an insult
using transgender as an insult
using appearance/weight as an insult

and that is a very sad commentary on a site that calls itself progressive.

I alert on all of the above - the TOS pretty clearly bans at least all but the last. Unfortunately, I count it as a good day if I'm not put in 24-hour time-out. Most days not a single juror agrees that the above insults are offensive because - as I've been told far too many times - anything goes when attacking Republicans. Apparently that includes women, LGBT individuals, and people who do not fit into te traditionally attractive appearance mold.

[whathehell]

47. "Misogyny is the last acceptable bigotry of the Left"

Writer, Katha Pollitt

[Ms. Toad]

53. I suspect a few more will linger longer

fat-phobia & bigotry against LGBT individuals, for two.

[whathehell]

65. Really?...Do you see anyone casting LGBT slurs here?

or anyone in doubt as to whether it's "okay" to use them?

Nah..I didn't think so.

[Ms. Toad]

72. Only once or twice a day. n/t

And I guess I've just been in dozens of imaginary alert time-outs, since it everyone on a DU jury would vote to hide LGBT slurs.

[whathehell]

93. Any examples to show us?

Since you claim DU juries are reluctant to hide LGBT slurs, and you see them "once or twice a day", you surely must have some examples.

[meadowlander]

103. Claiming Trump is Putin's bitch is a twofer and I've seen comments like that stand here.

It's sexist because it implies that women are submissive sexual partners and it's homophobic to the extent that it implies being a male bottom sexual partner is somehow an insult.

Also lots of "Michael Cohen/Paul Manafort/etc can look forward to being raped in prison"-type "jokes".

"Is Ann Coulter actually a man?" One thread even had a series of extreme close up pictures of her crotch to try to argue that folds in her clothes were a penis.

[Ms. Toad]

107. I really thought you were being facetious.

A few samples. If you truly aren't seeing it, you're not looking.

Here's a whole thread (with a exasperated OP who edited the OP to call it out): https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11193378
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12444118
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210874782
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9309692
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210590396
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211541617
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029012573#post8
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029692097
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10029921446

[Tipperary]

95. I see them quite frequently.

Some seem to think it is a big laugh to use words that are offensive to the gay community or to imply that someone we despise is gay. It is ugly, juvenile, and wrong. But it is pretty constant here.

[whathehell]

99. That are not hidden?..Do you have any examples to show?

Because they are EXPLICITLY against DU Rules and, unlike sexist slurs, I've never seen any which were allowed to stand.

[Ms. Toad]

108. They not only are not hidden,

90% of the time, I'm in a 24-hour timeout for alerting - because everyone on the jury either (1) doesn't see it or (2) doesn't find anything wrong with it.

See my post above, of a handful I could find with a quick search on "gay," or "cock holster," or "Graham." You can see from the responses in the threads I linked to that many of us who are LGBT are tired to the bone of being used to bludgeon republicans.

[Tipperary]

142. I alert on them all the time too.

Sadly, most are allowed to stand. Go figure.

[efhmc]

55. As usual you are on top of this situation. Am wondering why these terms are okay if one uses

them against ones enemy. They are still derogatory terms for all people even if you are using them against the GOP.

[Ms. Toad]

57. I agree -

I'm just exhausted from trying to explain it, so sometimes I just alert and go sit in the corner and nurse the wounds inflicted by my "allies."

[hlthe2b]

61. Ditto...

[Blue_true]

40. If on a jury, I would look at the context in which the word was used.

If I see the context as demeaning a woman, even and objectionable woman, I will vote to hide.

[efhmc]

52. I have been here since 2002 and in all that time I have never

called any one out for his/her comments. As a feminist I have seen countless examples of destructive and inflammatory rhetoric toward females which were not addressed or curtailed. When no one answers me about the use of the term "bitch" after more than three weeks of asking, I wonder if anything has changed or if we are still in the bondage of the usual male hierarchy.

[Kali]

60. I think the site continues to evolve

and progress, but like real evolution there are spurts and stops. new members come in (and always there are trolls) who aren't at the same level as others. it can be tiresome, or it can be a teaching/learning experience. older member get tired of having to repeat things over and over. some leave.

with the current political situation (and for me personally, life in general) it just seems that there are overriding problems that take more attention.

I think things HAVE changed here, for the better in terms of misogynistic language. but of course nothing is or ever will be perfect. we can only continue to try. for myself, I still have a bad habit of using SOB in real life. it is that automatic, non-thinking, no intention of being anti-woman state of mind. using the term is just habit that needs examining and work. I suspect most people are in that mental place as well.

[SWBTATTReg]

8. Rarely use this word (& only in the right context). I also do a 'pls. pardon me' tag right ...

afterwards, in the very few times I've used the word. There's always another word that one can use instead. If you are a good writer, this should present no problem in coming up w/ alternate words to use instead.

But in really, the word is a valid word.

There is one use of the word that I suspect you are talking about, which someone is using the word in a hateful manner on DU, against a DU member/audience member. By far the majority of us in DU are too nice to use this language against each other in DU and others in public.

There are thousands of news articles out there in news land that actually used this word in describing rump...

According to a database search, the terms “Donald Trump” and “bitch” have appeared in 7,064 news stories over the past two years.

[FoxNewsSucks]

10. to me, it would depend on the context.

The "B Word" and "C Word" do have valid infrequent uses. Some people, such as MF45and his gifting family, and the Cheneys, deserve the "C Word". There is simply nothing else vile enough to call them. And it has absolutely nothing to do with any of their genders.

If the intent is to insult someone because of their gender or genitals, then it should be alerted and removed. As an aside, I note that it seems to be OK however, to call someone a "dick" or "prick".

If it's not gender or genital related, and in proper context, then my opinion is that it should be allowed at times. There are some individuals here who apparently live for the day to alert on and complain about using the "B Word", even if that use clearly has nothing to do with gender. I think those people give ammunition to rightwing assertions that liberals are "delicate easily-offended snowflakes".

[Newest Reality]

14. I don't know.

I don't have problems with words because it is context that matters to me, but if other people are offended, then it is fine to acquiesce to them in a given setting, but that does require some form of censorship if we are talking about using word generally rather an as insults to members here, etc., which would then certainly be inappropriate.

I think more openness about words used in acceptable contexts is progressive because I equate the whole idea of thought control with making words to be something actual rather than purely symbolic. In other words, I do give it thought and it is a good question, but consensus matters as well as decorum.

Now, what about using "dick". as in, Trump is a dick-tator?

[milestogo]

21. Well you can always call someone a "douche" or "douchebag" instead - because its fine

to imply that women's bodies are filthy and disgusting when referring to people you don't like. If you protest the use of this word you will summarily be declared a whiner.

[RobinA]

32. Ironic, That

Same with c...s..... as a slur. I never could figure that one out.

[Blue_true]

41. You make a really salient point. nt

[Raine]

109. I despise that term

even more then bitch.

[meadowlander]

116. We're discussing use of the words in the context of insulting people we don't like.

As in "it's fine to use sexist language as long as the person deserves it". I don't buy it.

Calling Trump a bitch isn't wrong because it's insulting to Trump. It's wrong because it's insulting to women. And it continues to be wrong no matter how evil we think the recipient is because the whole premise of what you are saying is "this person is behaving like a woman (or a gay person) and that is an inherently bad way to behave."

[Takket]

19. that word is absolutely not allowed here and anyone using it is quickly evicerated

[CTyankee]

20. I have a perfect substitute and I use it here...

"that little shit" or "shithead." No gender implication. Good description.

Problem solved!

[tblue37]

31. Pissant works, too. nt

[Blue_true]

42. I use asshole a lot. It is gender neutral because all of us have one and some people can be one. nt

[Blue_true]

22. The word has taken on a number of contextual meanings.

There are lots of young women using the word to refer to weak or confused people. Some edgey social media personalities call their followers the word, I guess in an appreciative way.

So, it depends on the context under which the word is used.

[Shrike47]

24. I am offended by the sexist language critics, myself. If I want to use a descriptor, it should be OK

The community ethic, however, allows for censorship and repression.

[hlthe2b]

33. Sounds like you might be more comfortable in some of the Reddit subforums

where misogyny and such slurs are the rule.

[Blue_true]

46. COMEON, the person did not imply that.

The statement seemed to have been that he or she see no problem with it if it is used in some contexts, BUT that DU has a right to censor it if a jury decides to. That is how I saw the post.

[hlthe2b]

48. Anyone who condones use of slurs should be called out.

and I will as will most of DU. THAT is how we have kept the forum from disintegrating into a place not unlike some of Reddit's worst-- not to mention comment forums from yahoo and elsewhere.

[Blue_true]

51. I believe you are talking apples and oranges.

Whenever I get called onto a jury, I pay a large amount of attention to the context of the alerted post. What I have decided a few times is that if taken at on context that the poster did not mean, the word would have violated standards here, but in the context of which it was used, it did not. When I do that, I am not condoning anything, I am trying to drive to the basis under which the post was made before I vote.

Personally, I don't use the word or a number of other words that in history were first applied to human beings to demean them, the original intent of the word when applied to human beings is what generally leaves me cold about using it, although when on a jury I will look at the context under which a person used it. I do use asshole a lot and the context of "fucker" that means essentially immoral asshole.

I appreciate your position on this, I just don't fully share it. The whole thread has been good to read, a lot of insight across the spectrum was laid out.

[hlthe2b]

54. I never said context wasn't important. A discussion of use of the word, by necessity is a context

where it would be appropriate to use the word. Comparing generic terms like asshole and similar misses the point. They are acceptable because they are gender, race, ethnicity, and sexual-orientation neutral. No one is going to argue about use of that term or whether you say "f..Ker". These are not slurs that call out any specific group. That is where your apples and oranges comparison comes in.

You are probably young enough that you didn't face these slurs used against you in the workplace, whether the "b" word, "ball-buster", "c" word or the litany of other gender-associated slurs. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you did.

I've been on DU since its inception. These slurs have never been accepted here and yes, many of us will continue to ensure that they are NOT.

[Shrike47]

96. I am female in my 70's. I have lived through the wars over women's rights. I don't agree with you.

[hlthe2b]

114. You seem to think YOU should have the right to decide what is offensive to others, including slurs

that are historically gender-specific, race-based, LGBTQ- offensive, ethnic-deriding and used to demean certain groups and create division among people. Umm. ok. I think that says it all.

Most progressives believe in respect for others, fortunately.

[Blue_true]

148. You seem to be angling to make people that have principled disagreements with you on the various

contexts of one word look like they approve of every vile word that can be used. I sense that you have done that several times, including with me. People don't approve of vile words and I would even bet that they don't use them, I for example would never use the word that started this thread or any other word that targets any individual (except asshole, which I honestly don't think falls in that area).

[hlthe2b]

149. It is you who has just attacked me. I'm done with you. Shame on anyone who defends use of slurs

It is unconscionable and something our side should be fighting against.
But please DO feel free to continue to attack me for defending women, POC, LGBTQ, ethnic minorities against targeted slurs. It says loads against you for doing so.

[Blue_true]

151. I just read one of your posts that I did not see.

It seems that because of your life experiences, you come from a far different place than I do on the use of that word anytime. So I apologize for my last post, but my position on context remains, even after seeing better why you have ligitimate reasons to react strongly to any contextual use of the word.

[hlthe2b]

153. Thank you for that Blue_true. We can resolve to agree to disagree.

[sheshe2]

58. I am so sorry.

Shrike47
24. I am offended by the sexist language critics, myself. If I want to use a descriptor, it should be OK

The community ethic, however, allows for censorship and repression.

If you feel repressed by not being allowed to use the C Word. The word is used to demean women, just like b***h does, yet you are the one offended.

SMDH

[brer cat]

81. That got a jaw drop.

I wonder if it just a sexist thing or applies as well to ethnicity, race, or sexual orientation? I have known some other people who think they should be allowed to use any descriptor they wish. Some people call them narcissists.

[sheshe2]

85. Sure did.

And yes, pretty sure it is all you stated.

That last part. Bullseye.

[Shrike47]

94. Thank you for your warm support.

[defacto7]

26. The community decides. Some get away with it some don't

just like anything controversial on DU. You take your chances.

[RobinA]

29. To Me

progressive is not giving words so much power. I’m a female. Call me a C..., call me a B... Sticks and stones. I use B in my head all the time. I know one when I see one, and I know when I’m being one. Or leaning it that direction. I don’t usually say it out loud because outrage roams the land these days. C...? I don’t use that in my head because to me it’s fairly meaningless. I had an SO once who called me that every now and then. I just laughed. He was a writer with three Ivy League degrees and that lame ass name was the best he could do?

[whathehell]

59. Really?...Do you feel the same way about

Racial slurs?....How 'bout homophobic slurs?..Do you find it 'progressive' to tolerate those?

I'm going to take a big leap here and guess the answer is "No", and even
"Hell, no".

If that's the case, you'd have to ask yourself why you, and other women, should accept insult and abuse -- Isn't the willingness to do so, just another sign of a lack of self respect and internalized oppression?

Words matter.

[Newest Reality]

80. Well said!

[nini]

98. I agree completely.

Quite honestly the meaning has evolved way beyond a female dog anyway. It's not really even gender based anymore as much as it's a snotty arrogant punk type. Which is what it fits trump so well.

I don't have the bandwidth to give a damn if someone calls me a bitch.

[jalan48]

30. Chrissy Teigen recently called Trump a "pussy ass bitch". I thought that was pretty cool.

[IcyPeas]

75. It was trending on twitter the other day

I thought it was funny.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

37. Since DU is not

the real world the word should be banned .

[efhmc]

64. I thought it was but three weeks ago I saw it in a post referring to a male and asked

about its usage and never got a reply. I sent another email asking for clarification about its usage a few days ago and still no reply so decided to go to the group and ask for comments and perhaps some closure about the rules..

[Anon-C]

39. Pretty offensive. I made a "99 problems but a Mitch ain't one joke" a while back and was hesitant.

Certainly apologies to anyone offended and I will not use the word again even by inference .

[Coventina]

44. Back when I was a little in love with Benedict Cumberbatch

I proudly labeled myself a Cumberbitch.
(A fandom label that he himself said he didn't like).

I thought it was cute, though.

I'm over my crush, but I still think "Cumberbitch" was a cute fandom while it lasted.

I've never taken "The b word" very seriously as an insult.

Bitches are awesome!! They are loyal, loving and brave.

[VOX]

49. I don't care for this term and never use it in any way.

I’m light years away from being a prude, and I can cuss a blue streak that would make a dockworker blush.

But every time I hear/read the word “bitch,” I wince. I feel it’s demeaning to women. Even its use in other contexts, i.e., prison slang, still bothers me.

It’s a “lazy” word, as well. Too easy to use when there are much more colorful terms available.

[Kaleva]

50. Why ask a question you already know the answer to?

Your question:

"Is one allowed to use this term ever, anywhere and at any time? "

And then you say this:

" I have seen it used...."

[efhmc]

66. What the hay are you taking about? I did not use any of those phrases.

[jberryhill]

73. Okay, that's a little creepy

Last edited Thu Sep 12, 2019, 08:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Copying and pasting directly from your OP:

“Is one allowed to use this term ever, anywhere and at any time? I have seen it used...”

We can all read it, so why you would say, “I did not use those phrases” is a little creepy.

The basic problem is that the persons to whom you wrote are not going to play the game. You’ve been here long enough to see many contentious threads about “banning words” and you know that the decision was eventually made to provide an “alert” button by which you can have a post evaluated by a jury of members here.

Like any jury system, it is going to yield inconsistent results. So, sure, sometimes it stands and sometimes it doesn’t, depending on what that jury believed.

The most productive route toward decreasing its incidence, then, would be persuading others, who may be on juries, to agree with you that it should never be used.

[Kaleva]

156. Cut and pasted from your OP

"Is one allowed to use this term ever, anywhere and at any time? I have seen it used and cannot believe anyone or anything which thinks it an progressive site allow its usage."

[EarnestPutz]

56. Who are these "big boys" that you refer to? Are they the self-styled "language police"....

....that patrol these pages? Another related question, why does "wipipo" seem to be acceptable?

[JoeOtterbein]

62. K n R

The only place I know the word to e even slightly "allowed" in polite company, is when describing a mother of a puppy. I would refer to such a great animal would be, "Mom".

In general about the use of foul language in progressive comment boards, such as DU, I feel is makes us look juvenile. Like we don't know how to express ourselves in an effective manner without a bit of profanity.

[sheshe2]

63. Instead.

efhmc
0. So over the past three weeks I have asked the big boys a questions about the use of the word "bitch"

on DU. I still do not have an answer. Perhaps others can give me an answer. Is one allowed to use this term ever, anywhere and at any time? I have seen it used and cannot believe anyone or anything which thinks it an progressive site allow its usage.

Instead of asking the "big boys". Perhaps you should ask the women

[efhmc]

67. Nope, the main people in control here are males.

[sheshe2]

97. efhmc 67. Nope, the main people in control here are males.

the main people in control here are males.

WTF-SMDH

[DLevine]

119. Refers to Admin, I believe.

She asked the administrators if the word is ok. They control the site.

[Clash City Rocker]

69. I try to consider the feelings of others on issues like this

I don’t believe we should ever tell someone else how to feel about this sort of thing. In particular, a man shouldn’t tell a woman how to feel about a sexist term. Mansplaining is never okay.

Thinking about this, I’m a little embarrassed for bringing up Trump’s weight on a couple occasions. If anyone felt self-conscious, I apologize.

I will admit, it’s hard to know where to draw the line. Can we call Trump a bastard, or does that insult men who were born outside of wedlock? Most of the terms for stupid people are actual medical terms for people of a certain IQ. So can we call Trump an imbecile, for example, or is that insensitive? Am I pedantic for bringing this up? Probably, but I do actually wonder these things from time to time.

[Newest Reality]

82. No,

those are good points.

You are pointing down a rabbit hole though. Just don't fall in

I do something similar concerning the origins of the words used to refer to expletives. Cursing and profanity have religious connotations and vulgar/vulgarity have elitist implications

[Bradical79]

70. This isn't a progressive site

It's a Democratic site. The Democratic Party is a pretty big cross section of America. There are still racists, mysoginists, homophobes, and various other bigots. They didn't all go away with the Dixiecrats.

[Hoyt]

71. I don't use it, but sometimes I see it used when I don't think the poster means

it in an offensive manner. Probably best to avoid it, though.

[Codeine]

74. DU has informed my views on words like that

quite a lot over the last several years, and I endeavor to avoid their use. Sometimes I slip, but I end up feeling like a jerk when I do. Gendered insults should not be welcome here.

[PoliticAverse]

76. On DU you can bitch about many things you don't like.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bitch

4 informal : complaint "My biggest bitch with all of CBS' golf is there's no personalization."— Chuck Howard

[Rhiannon12866]

77. It's a matter of opinion here on DU, but I've seen posts using the word hidden on many occasions

I wouldn't use it.

[ismnotwasm]

78. Hmm. Hasn't been one of these threads in a while.

Here’s the thing. If Lizzo’s using it in a song, it is an expression of power; if it has a causal but clearly misogynistic intent, you know what fuck that shit.

Grownups should be able to figure it out without it being a big deal, but we still struggle apparently.

I am not, however, the word police.

I actually don’t use alert at all, unless I’m on MIRT, and then it’s for trolls.

[sheshe2]

90. ...

[BlueStater]

83. I associate "bitch" as just being a really whiny person who complains about everything.

And that fits the asshole in the White House to a tee.

I don't even think of it as a gender-related insult.

[meadowlander]

105. And I wonder why a female-gendered noun was repurposed to mean that...

[Glimmer of Hope]

84. Only if your name happens to be Lizzo.

[lunasun]

92. Turns out

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Glimmer of Hope]

145. Lol!!!! I can't believe I missed this.

[lunasun]

146. And the replies to HRC & Lizzo loved it !

Well except for a few haters as always .....

[TDale313]

86. The rules are enforced by random juries

and are more general than “this word is not allowed” There are a lot of people on the site who would not chose to hide a post with that word. Frankly, I agree it’s misogynistic and should be retired. A slur being aimed at people we dislike doesn’t make it less of a slur. But the community standards are pretty hit and miss on this one ☹️

[TygrBright]

91. What exactly are you bitching about?

It's a public forum. We bitch about many things here.

Then I'll sign off and play bitch (the card game) with my family.

My sister's setter bitch lies under the table with her head on my sister's knee while we play.

I've had a bitch of a day at work, too.

They're re-paving the main road I take to work so I have to take an alternate route that's a real bitch.

So, no, I'm not quite sure what you're bitching about but I'll check back tomorrow when I've had a night's sleep.

Maybe we can work out what's the problem with bitching here then.

amiably,
Bright

[Newest Reality]

121. Positive

I recall the word also having a positive or superlative connotation a while back. I don't hear it used that way anymore.

Wow, that's a bitchin' outfit!

Am I remembering it wrong?

[a la izquierda]

139. You're not remembering wrong.

I'm 42 and I used to hear it all the time.

[crazytown]

100. Oh Geez not this again.

Male: Asshole, Female: Bitch

both are acceptable on DU as you well know.

[czarjak]

104. I thought you could Bitch here.

[democratisphere]

106. The word "bitch" must be allowed to be used in all of its derivatives

and forms. It is irreplaceable and must not be censored by the left wing, right wing or centrists. If the shoe fits.

Signed,

One Evil Bastard

[Celerity]

110. I have no problem with it whatsoever

I'm cis female and 23yo btw.

Also, if that word offends, you will go positively bonkers over us Brits with c£%÷ and t₩☆# (which are usually aimed at men btw). I do not use them here as it is an American board and are far more likely to cause the vapours here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. Can we have the official list of the big boys, please?

In case I need to say "a big boy made me do it and then he ran away".

[GoneOffShore]

112. Good one.

[DLevine]

118. I assumed she means admin,

as in she asked them in Ask the Administrators if it is ok to use the word & didn't get a reply.

[GoneOffShore]

113. Bookmarking this like I bookmarked the 'Kudzu' thread

For the entire Ouroboros comedy.

[Vinca]

120. Actions matter more than words and if anyone opts to use that word the world won't end.

[LexVegas]

123. What was is it that Yoko Ono said about women? I think you can see here that she was right. nt

[mainer]

124. The word has multiple meanings now, not necessarily associated with women

For instance, "bitch" as a verb is something both men and women do.
"Bitchin'" is a compliment.

And Christy Teigen's latest use of "PussyAssBitch" has nothing to do with misogyny but everything to do with Trump being a PussyAssBitch.

[LexVegas]

126. Same can be said for the n-word.

[mainer]

127. I don't think the N-word has any other meaning

It still refers to a person of African descent, most often as a pejorative.

[LexVegas]

128. It has multiple meanings. Just like bitch.

[BlueStater]

144. What other meanings are there behind the N word other than as a slur?

Nigga (usually spelled and pronounced that way as opposed to the racially-based insult nigger) has been adopted by black people and often used to reference people of their own race, mostly in an affectionate or neutral context.

Aside from that, I know of no other use for the N word other than the intended meaning.

[LanternWaste]

125. I just won't use it.

Personal choice. I'd have to accept I'm either an idiot or dismissive of my own convictions if I began using it (I realize of course though, others may find its usage necessary to communicate).

[obamanut2012]

129. The Admins okayed it years ago

They were asked to ban it, and refused to, instead "States Righting" it via alerts.

It is a gendered slur, and shouldn't be allowed, inlcuding the use of "bitch slapping," which makes a joke out of DV. What is wrong with asshole, etc.?

[LexVegas]

134. People will twist themselves in knots to justify use of slurs. nt

[efhmc]

137. At last, an answer to my question.

Thank you. And to speak to another point brought up here there is an administrative decision about the usage and not a DU opinion poll governing its use.

[mainer]

141. How do people feel about the word "dick"?

It's originally male-gendered, but there's no reason you can't use it for women, as in "she's a dick." We all know what that means, and it has nothing to do with having a penis.

[MrScorpio]

143. I got alerted for calling a male cop one once

Wasn’t clear on whether that alert came from people who hated that word under any circumstance, or whether it came from a law enforcement enthusiast.

So, yeah, a clarification would be nice.

[cynatnite]

147. It's usage is usually sexist in intent...

That and other words used here on DU I find pretty offensive. A few times I've spoken out, but usually I get drowned out about it by those who think it's okay when they use it, but are pretty outraged when the other side does exactly the same.

I've been trashing those threads when I see it because it's just not worth the heartache. People will say what they want and justify it no matter what.

[Caliman73]

150. It is a complicated word.

Definitely has sexist implications obviously with the term originating as a designation for female canines then being used to define women who were perceived as overly assertive/aggressive, or perhaps mean.

It seems to have morphed into a general word for something that is weak or undesirable though it still retains the other connotation and certainly still carries the gendered messaging.

I try not to use it.

[Kurt V.]

152. i don't say it...ever.

[pwb]

155. I am not offended by it.

.