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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe know that accused-child-molester Woody Allen is lying when he says he's worked
Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2019, 11:33 AM - Edit history (2)
with hundreds of actresses and not one of them has accused him of anything.
Allen worked with actress Mia Farrow many times. And Farrow and her daughter Dylan have accused him of abusing Dylan at the age of 7; and journalist Ronan Farrow believes his sister.
This story came up again last week when Scarlett Johansson announced that she believed Allen. But Scarlet wasn't 7 when she worked with Allen, so his behavior with her isn't relevant. OTOH, the judge who heard all the evidence in the child custody dispute believed Dylan and her mother. I know who I believe.
And yes, I know, he's innocent -- in the eyes of the law -- till proven guilty in a court. But there's never going to be a court trial, so we are free to make up our own minds on this.
ON EDIT: I'm adding the 33 page document signed by the judge who heard the child custody case, for anyone who's not familiar with it -- this first link: (He did not find evidence of coaching, and he took testimony from other people who were in the house that day. This was written, of course, when Dylan was just a child. Decades later she came forward to tell her story of what happened to her. The judge had made the right decision in protecting her.)
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/woody-allen-defends-work-light-metoo-renewed-backlash/story?id=65434187
IN HER OWN WORDS, DYLAN'S ACCOUNT IN THE NYT:
https://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/
Whats your favorite Woody Allen movie? Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brothers electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me. He talked to me while he did it, whispering that I was a good girl, that this was our secret, promising that wed go to Paris and Id be a star in his movies. I remember staring at that toy train, focusing on it as it traveled in its circle around the attic. To this day, I find it difficult to look at toy trains.
For as long as I could remember, my father had been doing things to me that I didnt like. I didnt like how often he would take me away from my mom, siblings and friends to be alone with him. I didnt like it when he would stick his thumb in my mouth. I didnt like it when I had to get in bed with him under the sheets when he was in his underwear. I didnt like it when he would place his head in my naked lap and breathe in and breathe out. I would hide under beds or lock myself in the bathroom to avoid these encounters, but he always found me. These things happened so often, so routinely, so skillfully hidden from a mother that would have protected me had she known, that I thought it was normal. I thought this was how fathers doted on their daughters. But what he did to me in the attic felt different. I couldnt keep the secret anymore.
When I asked my mother if her dad did to her what Woody Allen did to me, I honestly did not know the answer. I also didnt know the firestorm it would trigger. I didnt know that my father would use his sexual relationship with my sister to cover up the abuse he inflicted on me. I didnt know that he would accuse my mother of planting the abuse in my head and call her a liar for defending me. I didnt know that I would be made to recount my story over and over again, to doctor after doctor, pushed to see if Id admit I was lying as part of a legal battle I couldnt possibly understand. At one point, my mother sat me down and told me that I wouldnt be in trouble if I was lying that I could take it all back. I couldnt. It was all true. But sexual abuse claims against the powerful stall more easily. There were experts willing to attack my credibility. There were doctors willing to gaslight an abused child.
After a custody hearing denied my father visitation rights, my mother declined to pursue criminal charges, despite findings of probable cause by the State of Connecticut due to, in the words of the prosecutor, the fragility of the child victim. Woody Allen was never convicted of any crime. That he got away with what he did to me haunted me as I grew up. I was stricken with guilt that I had allowed him to be near other little girls. I was terrified of being touched by men. I developed an eating disorder. I began cutting myself. That torment was made worse by Hollywood. All but a precious few (my heroes) turned a blind eye. Most found it easier to accept the ambiguity, to say, who can say what happened, to pretend that nothing was wrong. Actors praised him at awards shows. Networks put him on TV. Critics put him in magazines. Each time I saw my abusers face on a poster, on a t-shirt, on television I could only hide my panic until I found a place to be alone and fall apart.
SNIP
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)"Not on of them has ever complained about me." That he knows of. Christ.
Initech
(99,909 posts)dsc
(52,129 posts)and actually tend to believe Farrow, but this is highly misleading. It is clear he meant he hadn't be accused of doing anything at work, Farrow was his wife and it was in that capacity that she accused him. I wouldn't count Farrow as an actress he worked with in the meaning of that article.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)He didn't limit his comment to interactions ON THE SET. And that would have been meaningless if he had. How many directors would molest someone while on the set?
And since Dylan accused him of molesting her at age 7, how would his behavior with adult actresses even be relevant? So what if he didn't molest adult women? So what if he didn't molest adult men?
His accuser was a 7 year old little girl.
dsc
(52,129 posts)but it surely is reasonable to limit it to coworkers as opposed to de facto spouses. There is a massive difference between a coworker or even subordinate and spouse. Farrow was his de facto spouse when those complaints were made.
kskiska
(27,041 posts)and never even lived with her.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)He was never charged with a crime. He could have been sued by Dylan--which would have ensured that she had her day in court. But there have been accusations that Mia coached Dylan, perhaps even convincing her about what had happened.
And no other child has ever accused him of this sort thing. Pedophiles leave a trail of victims.
This won't be popular but it is impossible for him to prove himself innocent. Impossible! In some ways it would have been better for him to have been charged, so he could have refuted the crime in a court of law.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)but he recommended not filing them because of the "fragile victim."
That is the same reason that Mia would not have put Dylan through any kind of civil trial. Yes, there were coaching allegations. You put that in the passive tense, but those accusations about coaching came from Allen. At the time I suspended judgment, realizing that one day Dylan could speak out and we could listen.
And now I think we should. We should at least read her whole statement.
Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)How can you ever respond that? I seem to remember that the accusation of coaching came from people within the system.
But what difference would a fragile victim be? If you were a judge who had a child molester on your hands, why would you let them off the hook? Why would you potentially subject other children to his crimed?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)might be traumatic and that the charges would be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
The judge DID take the measure of not allowing Allen to share custody or have any visitation.
UTUSN
(70,494 posts)edhopper
(33,186 posts)we can't know what happened. But I lean towards believing Allen.
leftstreet
(36,078 posts)Who cares what she thinks?
Jeebus celebrity culture suckz
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)It's not like she's offering up these comments. "Oh by the way about Woody Allen".
maxsolomon
(32,975 posts)Are you just now learning of ScarJo's existence?
leftstreet
(36,078 posts)I meant "new" person chiming in with an opinion, and "actress" person being a celebrity who wasn't even involved in the original incident
maxsolomon
(32,975 posts)Mia Farrow.
leftstreet
(36,078 posts)I should have just said no one gives a fuck what this celebrity has to say about the issue
It just seemed rude
TexasBushwhacker
(20,043 posts)When she found out he intended for them to share a hotel room, she declined. His relationship with Hemingway was based on a real relationship he had with a teenager. He may not be a criminal, but he's certainly a creep.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)the daughter of Mia whom he had been involved in helping to raise.
drbtg1
(1,054 posts)I certainly wouldn't claim to know what happened. All I can conclude is that whether you believe Woody Allen or Mia Farrow, Dylan Farrow was horribly victimized either way, and as such has my sympathies.
When one scratches the surface (which most stories about this matter do not do), things about the allegations just don't seem to add up. When one looks at the recollections of Moses Farrow or the investigations in New York and Connecticut, doubts are reasonable. Then the other factors (that some may see as just tangential), like the Frank Sinatra stuff, Mia Farrow's brother, the support for Roman Polanski, the 60 Minutes interview with Woody Allen, and then the whole Dory Previn matter and her album "On My Way To Where" (the songs "Beware Of Young Girls" and "With My Daddy In The Attic" of particular interest), this all seems so odd.
I don't post this to pursue debate, as I can't ultimately reach a suitable conclusion. I only post this for anyone wanting additional information, which is something I usually get for myself here.
YMMV
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-woody-allen-allegations-not-so-fast
https://ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/moses-farrow-speaks-out/
http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html
https://ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/qa-with-dylan-farrow/
https://ronanfarrowletter.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/hard-questions-for-ronan-farrow-an-open-letter/
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Mia-Farrows-Brother-to-Be-Sentenced-for-Sex-Abuse-229522321.html
https://www.showbiz411.com/2014/02/07/did-mia-farrow-get-the-molestation-idea-from-a-song-by-ex-husbands-wife
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I can see where you're coming from.
It is particularly telling that you include so much from Moses Farrow's point of view, since court documents show he wasn't even at the house during the key event in question (but Ronan was, and he supports Dylan's account.)
Moses is not in a position to know as much as the child custody judge, who heard a great deal of testimony. And Moses has a potential; financial interest in supporting Allen. Here is the 33 page document written by that judge. It, combined with Dylan's own account, outweighs any of Moses's self-interested opinions.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/heres-the-1993-woody-alle_b_4746866
drbtg1
(1,054 posts)To that end, I agree people should also read the anti-Woody Allen pieces as well in the NY Times, the Hollywood Reporter, etc. (although those items tend to get more attention, so I felt no need to also post them). As always, people should have a fully informed opinion.
As I said, I have no desire to debate, so.......
Response to pnwmom (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
maxsolomon
(32,975 posts)But Farrow is in a category of her own when it comes to "people Allen has worked with", so you're splitting hairs.
I'm free to not make up my mind.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)One of the (few?) that just don't care for his work. But Mia (and the whole tortured Farrow clan) ... She's scary!