The Navy Says Those UFO Videos Are Real

[left-of-center2012]

The U.S. Navy has confirmed that three online videos purportedly showing UFOs are genuine. The service says the videos, taken by Navy pilots, show “unexplained aerial phenomena,” but also states that the clips should have never been released to the public. The three videos in question are titled "FLIR1," "Gimbal," and "GoFast." They show two separate encounters between Navy aircraft and UFOs.

One video was taken in 2015 off the East Coast by a F/A-185F fighter jet using the aircraft's onboard Raytheon AN/ASQ-228 Advanced Targeting Forward-Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) Pod. The other clip, also recorded with a Super Hornet ATFLIR pod, was taken off the coast of California in 2004 by pilots flying from the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz. In the videos, air crews loudly debate what the objects are and where they came from.

In each case, the objects in the videos undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology. In the 2004 incident, according to The New York Times, the objects "appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up."

Joseph Gradisher, official spokesperson for the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Information Warfare said that the Navy "designates the objects contained in these videos as unidentified aerial phenomena." That terminology is important. "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" provides "the basic descriptor for the sightings/observations of unauthorized/unidentified aircraft/objects that have been observed entering/operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges." The Navy is pointedly not saying the objects are flying saucers or otherwise controlled by aliens.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a29073804/navy-ufo-videos-real/

[USALiberal]

1. Aliens are not visiting earth, end of story! Nt

[Cirque du So-What]

2. Of course they're not! Ludicrous! Outrageous! Preposterous!

They're not visiting; they're permanent residents.

[USALiberal]

3. :-)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. The Navy version of Project Blue Book! LOL

If space aliens were able to visit Earth they would conclude; "NO INTELLIGENT LIFE ON THIS PLANET" and leave. The Navy most likely intercepted some advanced military aircraft, which were reported by too many military personnel to be easily dismissed.

[left-of-center2012]

4. That's what the aliens want you to say

[USALiberal]

5. I really hope there are aliens! Nt

[lunasun]

53. Why? They may be exploring for new planets to take over and use . Some natives have welcomed

explorers at first all around this world in history only to be later annihilated, reduced, or enslaved and their land taken from them by force.

Or perhaps all living creatures including us could be a food source . Captured and eaten like wild game

[volstork]

127. It's

a COOKBOOK!!!

[jayfish]

144. If They Were Here And...

a species capable of travel at superluminal speeds; they would have no need of any resource we could ever give them. Maybe they like live sports or the new Tool album.

[trixie2]

27. Squeegy, Squeegy

You owe me one mouth full of Mt. Dew and a new monitor.

[qazplm135]

7. Explain Ted Cruz then

he's an alien visiting Earth.

[USALiberal]

9. Good point., nt

[MuseRider]

8. Look at us!

Would you?

LOL, I wanna believe.

[Texin]

35. Are you kidding? God god, one is squatting in the WH and pretending to be POTUS!

[Midnight Writer]

44. UFO means Unidentified, not alien.

[berni_mccoy]

51. They are not visiting for certain...

We are a case study in how a bad situation can get worse!

[Blue_true]

56. Nah. They are just here to pick up a few Subs and chips. They don't drink our soda-pop. nt

[Baclava]

65. Not visiting, returning, have been around for a long time, created us

[Ghost Dog]

103. Indeed of that mythologies of so many cultures speak!

Nt.

[Baclava]

107. We are a species with amnesia of the deep past, sky gods are a racial memory of our creators

Yea verily

[Ghost Dog]

108. Elites censor, especially as they fall.

People recall.

[qazplm135]

6. my bet is on advanced drone tech

something small with a powerful engine, and no pilot so it can do high G turns that a piloted craft could not.

When I say "small" it's probably still bigger than your average drone.

The apparent lack of flight control surfaces is the part that's most interesting to me...not necessarily the speed or mobility.

[Midnight Writer]

43. No heat signature, no exhaust trail, no wings, no fins. Unidentified indeed.

[Blue_true]

57. 60,000 feet elevation change in a second? Yeah right, advanced Drones.

Calculate the required acceleration on that and the abrupt stop at 20,000 feet. There is nothing even remotely known to us that can do that type of acceleration and deceleration.

[qazplm135]

77. sorry but first of all

any large leap in science that you and I don't know about doesn't mean some smart human didn't come up with it.

Second, an alien species is so smart that they can come from light years away, but not smart enough to avoid being seen by a fourth generation human fighter plane?

Makes no sense. Are the aliens simultaneously really smart and really dumb?
Are they just fucking with us?

If they wanted to be seen, they'd be seen. And if they didn't want to be seen they wouldn't be.

If they can change elevation that quickly, they can avoid being seen at all. It's a big ocean, they could probably do whatever they would be doing 1000 miles from the nearest human.

Of course if I were testing advanced human tech, I'd like to see how that tech appears to current gen tech.

But hey sure, let's ignore logic and common sense and just go "aliens."

[Blue_true]

91. If aliens chose to be seen knowing that we can do nothing to them and they can

go back to being unseen at their desire, that throws out your claim. Why would they chose to become unseen? If they saw something that they had not yet encountered, one simple way to fully analyze it would be to become unseen. An alien craft could certainly fly beside our most modern fighter jet unseen, but if the aliens wanted to test the fighter jet's recognition and approach capabilities, the only true way to do that is to momentarily uncloak. My sense is to them, uncloaking momentarily would have no consequence, since they can recloak instantly and vanish to the fighter jet.

[stonecutter357]

10. Closest star to Earth .

https://www.thoughtco.com/closest-stars-to-earth-3073628 The celestial neighborhood also contains the Alpha Centauri system. It comprises the closest set of stars, even if their light does take just over four years to reach us. There are actually three all doing a complex orbital dance together. The primaries in the system, Alpha Centauri A and Alpha Centauri B, are about 4.37 light-years from Earth. A third star, Proxima Centauri (sometimes called Alpha Centauri C), is gravitationally associated with the former. It's actually slightly closer to Earth at 4.24 light-years away.

[Enoki33]

11. I am constantly amazed by those who make blanket statements of

denial without doing the slightest bit of investigative hard work about the hundreds of worldwide reports while totally disregarding the professionalism and characters of those reporting the actual incidents. Sorry, the because l believe it, it must be true storyline is much more effective in the marketing of religion where hubris allows for the belief that humans are the pinnacle of creation. Hell, even the Catholic Church has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in hedging their bet. It is not my intention to try to convince anyone of the fallacy of their convictions, only simply to request that others be allowed to have an open and curious mind.

[stopdiggin]

14. not a single denial in this string

unidentified means -- unidentified

[USALiberal]

18. No hard proof! Simple! Show me real evidence! Nt

[Kaleva]

24. UFO's exist. What's not proven is that they are controlled by aliens

[lunatica]

32. Look around! The earth is f***ing flat man!

Well, ok, it’s got hills that make it bumpy. But that’s flat bumpy man!

[3catwoman3]

134. Nah - not flat. YOu must not have seen the statement...

...that cats are proof that the Earth is NOT flat because if it were, cats would have knocked everything off it already -

[lunatica]

145. HAHAHAHAHAAA!

That really made me laugh!

You win!

[3catwoman3]

156. Well, if you liked THAT, you're gonna...

...LOVE this!

[lunatica]

157. I do! I do!

[3catwoman3]

160. I've watched this dozens of times and it...

...cracks me up every time.

[Hotler]

158. Little bastards........

[LanternWaste]

45. An open and curious mind requires objective evidence and data to form a valid hypothesis.

It also requires one to realize that disagreement with your position is not predicated on "the fallacy of their convictions..." (unless of course, you have evidence to illustrate otherwise-- but you do not).

A lazy mind on the other hand, pretends that simply entertaining conjecture is the next best thing to hard data, and opposition to that conjecture is merely "hubris." And, as no one has said, or even implied that human are peak-creation, your straw-man will be given all the credibility it in fact, warrants.

[Enoki33]

50. Funny, l was under the impression that an open and curious mind is

exactly what that implies. I seem to have struck a raw nerve somewhere and can only state it was done inadvertently.

[Drahthaardogs]

132. The Catholic Church does NOT rule out alien life

Not at all. In fact, if God exists, why would He only put life on one planet?

[brooklynite]

12. You're RIGHT! They're unidentified!

[get the red out]

13. The "black budget"

Is a very large thing.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

15. They are aliens looking for an escaped Galactic criminal..

Who happens to be hiding in our White House.

[Opel_Justwax]

16. I guess we better by AR-15's to stop the alien invasion.

The government is being run by lunatics.

[Archae]

19. Here we go again...

Back in ancient times and the Middle Ages, people saw odd things in the sky.

Birds, clouds, stars, etc, seen at odd angles most often.

They were labeled "gods" or "fairies" or such.

A pilot sees geese near a mountain in 1947, and due to the odd angle he viewed them at, they looked like silver spaceships.
He says they flew like "saucers skipped over water," and the term "flying saucer" was born.

People who spent honeymoons with women from Venus, or get really vivid dreams about being kidnapped by aliens are still believed.

And now, just about everyone and their mothers have a camera with them all the time.

But still nothing more than fakes, or ambiguous blobs of light.

As to the Navy "UFO," the jury is still out.

[PCIntern]

40. It wasn't a honeymoon but

I spent a weekend with a girl from Venus and Holy Moly! I know she was from Venus because there wasn’t enough oxygen in the room!

[Ghost Dog]

106. Mmm yeah but back then that kind of thing I mean fling was

still maybe not entirely politically incorrect?

[Blue_Tires]

20. I saw the documentary

and I'm convinced those things are man-made...

[jayfish]

30. "In each case, the objects in the videos...

undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology."

[Blue_Tires]

152. So why would they *only* be fucking with

U.S. Navy aircraft during exercises?

With all the commercial air traffic criss-crossing the ocean in a given hour, why have none of them ever seen it?

[jayfish]

153. Well, In The Cases Specific To This Post;...

It was the Navy fucking with the UAPs. Not the other way around. Other pilot sightings? They happen all the time. Here are a few to peruse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Alderney_UFO_sighting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_flight_1628_incident
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/13/irish-authorities-investigate-ufo-sightings-by-commercial-pilots
https://www.syti.net/UFOSightings.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/pilots-report-close-encounters-ufo-arizona-passed-us/story?id=54067123
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_O%27Hare_International_Airport_UFO_sighting
https://www.arctictoday.com/pilots-report-ufo-sighting-nunavuts-northern-baffin-island/
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2722816-Air-Force-pilot-reports-UFO-sighting.html
https://www.ranker.com/list/ufos-seen-by-pilots-and-astronauts/scottmarcano

[lagomorph777]

154. They have.

https://www.airspacemag.com/videos/category/new-label/a-pilot-risks-his-career-to-report-a-ufo/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_flight_1628_incident
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/13/irish-authorities-investigate-ufo-sightings-by-commercial-pilots
https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/ufos-declassified/pilot-eyewitness/1003767/3418371

[Sophia_Of_PlanetX]

21. My theory is that these are aliens from outer space.

Imo, they were coming to meet our leader to establish contact. However, they saw who our leader was, determined that there is no intelligent life on earth, and left as fast as possible.

[roamer65]

22. Smart aliens!

[GeorgeGist]

23. Lousy vid quality...

as usual.

[jayfish]

25. Those particular videos are of poor quality for a reason.

You should listen to interviews of the pilots involved in the related sightings. High quality versions of the videos exist.

Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation

[kcr]

55. Why would leaking poor quality videos make sense?

If I wanted to get the truth out there, I'd pick the videos of the best quality to leak.

[jayfish]

92. I believe it's because raw gun camera footage is "classified"...

and you don't want to get charged with releasing classified information.

[ecstatic]

102. Try taking cell phone video of the next plane you see,

either while on a plane, or just looking at the sky.

[mbusby]

26. So... why do aliens travel several light years....

...so that they can shove a probe up your butt?

[lunatica]

34. They're cataloging all the deadly bacteria so they can immunize themselves

before launching their attack. Didn’t you ever watch War Of The World’s?

[TeamPooka]

58. It's called a "vacation."

You don't know what their hobbies are.
maybe some do....

[jcgoldie]

81. I'm glad my wife just like's hanging out on the beach

We don't probe nothing but maybe bottles of Mexican beer.

[TeamPooka]

84. to each their own.

[Blue_true]

59. When I think about it.

If we visited another planet that has life, we would most likely spend a lot of time studying it before (IF) we make contact with beings there. The study could take many years. They also may conclude that there is nothing special about us other than we exist (our existence could be what they were trying to prove).

[qazplm135]

80. again if there are aliens that can travel to us

they are smarter than us.

And we, should we want to study humans...could do it in such a way that the humans would never know it was happening.

We could:

1. knock them out surreptitiously (no alien visitations required because you'd never know)
2. keep them knocked out for the duration of any examination
3. return them unawares

We can do that...right now. So, why would aliens be worse at it?

[Blue_true]

87. You make a lot of good points.

If they can reach us, they likely know how to do things like cloak themselves. They could be standing in our living rooms observing us and we would not know. They would not need to knock us out, IMO.

What I have seen about people in general is that the more educated and informed they become, normally the more humane they become, there are exceptions. Using that in regards to aliens that reach us, they would likely realize that they could destroy us without much effort, but likely would choose not to.

[AllyCat]

73. Get in loser

We’re doing butt things.

[lagomorph777]

155. Epstein and Trump flew thousands of miles for that purpose.

Same thing but on a cosmic scale

[jcmaine72]

162. I believe it's called "Sex Tourism".

For all we know, every species from one end of the universe to the next has decided to use our planet as its own personal Bangkok.

[SWBTATTReg]

28. All I will say is that until you see one, then anything esle anybody has to say on the matter ...

is moot and worthless ... (the UFO phenom). What is the saying, until you've seen one, then .... ? I saw one, in bright sunlight, up close and personal, and witnessed by others too. I have nothing else to say.

[mn9driver]

29. Advanced drone tech

Is the simplest and most likely explanation. These things are close to technology that we know exists already. I saw a UFO back in 1991 while on patrol. It looked and behaved nothing like an airplane. It looked like a barbell. It stopped, changed direction, and eventually accelerated away.

I now believe it was an early version of the combat drones we have today. But at the time, nobody had any idea what it could be.

[jayfish]

31. "In each case, the objects in the videos...

undertook aerial maneuvers that aren't possible with current aviation technology."

[mn9driver]

36. Just like what I saw wasn't possible with current tech

That we knew of at the time.

I present some information that is backed up by my decades of military and civilian aviation experience, aviation education, and direct contact with one of these things. I don’t include reading a Popular Mechanics article as part of my qualifications for making the statements I did.

[jayfish]

47. So You Put A Lot of Stock In The Eyewitness Accounts of...

Naval Aviators then? What do you think about USN Cmdr. David Fravor's account of the incident that precipitated the capture of one of the aforementioned videos?

[Blue_true]

60. An acceleration that is close to 10 times the acceleration of gravity,

and a deceleration that is close to infinite (going from about ten times the acceleration of gravity to zero instantly, that is enormous). Math is not reading a few pages of Popular Mechanics, the acceleration MAY be possible for robotic drones, but the deceleration is vastly beyond anything conceptual at this point in our existence (it is almost infinity).

[qazplm135]

115. what are you talking about??

acceleration and deceleration are the same thing with the same forces.
Deceleration is just negative acceleration.
The minus sign isn't changing the magnitude of the forces involved.

So, if a robotic object can accelerate to a certain value, it can "decelerate" to that same value.

[Polybius]

125. But instantly?

How can an object go (let's say) 20,000 mph to zero in less than a second? Pretty advanced for the early 2000's.

[qazplm135]

129. let's use your numbers

20,000 mph to 0 in one second is -911 Gs.

Or simply 911 Gs

Things nature can do that's higher than that:

Mantis Shrimp claw strike is over 10 thousand G acceleration

Things we can do that are higher G than that:

V8 Formula One engine pistons 8.6 K Gs acceleration
Ultrahigh centrifuge 300K Gs


If you want to talk air tech, a SPRINT missile developed in the 60s and deployed in 72 and beyond could reach 100 Gs of acceleration.
Or only nine times less than your proposed numbers.

Do I believe we could build something almost 50 years later that's got nine times the acceleration of a SPRINT missile designed in the 60s and operated in the 70s?

Yes....yes I do.

Of course, we don't know those are the numbers. Maybe it was 15K MPH to zero in 2 seconds.

Now we are only talking 341 G or only three times the Gs of a missile we build 50 years ago.

Suddenly....not so advanced after all.

[Polybius]

130. It's not the speed that surprises me

Many things can go faster. But what machine can go 20,000 mph and just stop on a dime and turn around at incredible angles? Those F1 racers takes blocks to stop short. Many cars require a parachute.

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't say it was aliens or impossible. I just think it might be a hypersonic plane that doesn't use fuel. So advanced that the other Navy pilots had no idea it existed.

[qazplm135]

131. no doubt it's a leap

I think also no doubt it's a drone...living beings can't take those kind of Gs unless we've figured out inertial dampeners (and I don't think that's ever going to be a thing outside of Star Trek).

I think the issue we have is when a pilot (or anyone) sees a powered craft in the sky the first instinct is to think...there's a pilot in there...and to compare the maneuverability of that craft to the paradigms of what a human pilot can withstand.

So when they see something that does something outside that window, that's going to be a wow moment for them.

And I suspect their perception gets at least a little bit skewed in that moment.

[jayfish]

137. Another Thing To Consider.

It wasn't only the objects that were more capable than the F-18s sent to intercept them. The pilots were outclassed as well. These things mirror imaged the F-18 pilots maneuvers and then humbled them when the pilots tried to get into firing position on them. ...a decorated, celebrated, Top Gun pilot. ...and he admits to it. It's one thing for a pilot, physically, in another aircraft to do it. It's quite another to do it from behind a monitor or VR display and HOTAS from who knows how far away.

[qazplm135]

139. is it?

If we assume, for the moment, that this is advanced human tech, that it's significantly more nimble and agile than a human pilot then all we need is either:

1. advanced AI (no lag)
2. A very good drone pilot on a very good connection that knows the flight parameters of his drone very well. Any delay in movement is forgiven by the agility gap.

[jayfish]

142. An Advanced AI In An Advanced Aircraft That Can Defeat A Top Gun Pilot It Has Never Encountered?

Or an app that would allow a ROV pilot to overcome the lag introduced by the limits of C? Not to mention his/her situational awareness handicap. And you think the aliens explanation is far-fetched?

[qazplm135]

146. So you think

Overcoming lag is more far fetched than interstellar space travel?

[jayfish]

147. No.

I think an ROV operator, factoring in lag and a situational awareness disadvantage, wouldn't be able to pull of what they did against a Top Gun pilot.

[qazplm135]

149. so must be aliens then right?

that's more plausible to you.

[jayfish]

150. Why Is It Less Plausible?

Do you believe intelligent life exists in the Milky Way? Do you believe that intelligent life exists that could be millions to billions of years more advanced than human beings? If you do then the Fermi Paradox dictates that they've probably been passing through for countless years. ...even at subluminal speeds. The "aliens" choice also satisfies Occam's razor. It's a much simpler explanation than an AI controlled super-secret aircraft, able hover and to instantly transition to hyper-sonic flight, at maneuvering altitude, outclassed a Top Gun School trained Naval Aviator. Not to mention the fact that this incredible human achievement was haphazardly tossed into a training exercise where one side had no idea what was taking place.

[qazplm135]

151. why is it less plausible?? lol

I find overcoming computer lag a wee bit more plausible than interstellar travel.

The Fermi Paradox does not "dictate" that.

The Fermi Paradox asks where are the aliens. That's it. It does NOT say anything remotely like what you just wrote.

There are a PLETHORA of answers to that question ranging from:

There aren't any.
There are plenty but none of them have achieved interstellar travel
Intelligent life has a short window so the chance of meeting another civilization by being in that same window is small
They are out there but are avoiding us
They are out there but space travel is so hard they can't reach us
and a host more

The aliens choice does NOT satisfy Occam's razor as the simplest answer is that it's humans who only had to solve fracking lag, not aliens having to solve interstellar flight, and then having solved that amazingly difficult trick, can't manage to keep themselves hidden from humans flying the equivalent of paper airplanes. The truly simplest answer is the frailty of human perception.

I've already laid out the numbers as to how the Gs from such a craft is only a single digit number of times higher than a rocket we built in the early 70s...and possibly as little as three times if you simple add a second to the human calculated time frame.

As for why during a training exercise...you'd probably WANT to see how fourth or fifth generation craft react and respond to this new advanced and SECRET craft you built. You're not going to buzz enemy craft (what if your secret craft crashes?), but you might very well buzz your own folks since the only risk is that people on the internet think it's a UFO (which is fine with you).

What doesn't make sense is why the UFO aliens (who have conceivably been building better aircraft for millennia) would have any reason to expose themselves to an Earth fighter. They can observe everything it's doing during the training exercise. It can clearly see how fast it can go, what weapons it has, and its handling. It has zero logical reason to "play" with the human fighter.

You don't appear to understand basic concepts like the Fermi Paradox or Occam's razor. And the fact that you think solving lag is a harder problem than interstellar flight tells me you don't understand basic physics or the HUGE challenge of interstellar spaceflight.

[jayfish]

163. No, The Fermi Paradox Simply...

says that if you take the Drake Equation at face value, aliens should have been here by now. Even at subluminal speeds. Turns out they might have already been here and are still here. Not to mention the fact that the Drake Equation is woefully outdated.

As far as Occam's razor. Extraterrestrials or a leak-proof, super secret, AI controlled (or remotely operated) vehicle that exhibits flight capabilities that experts say we are not capable of? ...in 2004 or today.

Start at 2:00 of the FLIR1 video. You will see the object break target-lock of one of the most advanced, if not the most advanced, system of it's kind and instantaneously accelerate out of the frame.

?t

No flight surfaces, no heat, and no visual indication of any propulsion method. If it's ours, why hasn't it's technology been made public or gone into production? ...15 years later? Who are we hiding it from? If it's not ours and not ET, why aren't we groveling before the country that owns it because it would render our entire fleet of air-superiority fighters obsolete.

I don't have to know or explain anything about ETs other than they appear to be here and there isn't much we can do about it. Which is the simpler answer?

[qazplm135]

165. no, it doesn't say that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

"The Fermi paradox, named after Italian-American physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations elsewhere in the Milky Way galaxy and high estimates of their probability, such as those that result from optimistic choices of parameters in the Drake equation."

It does not say "why aren't they here on Earth." It says why don't we see any evidence for them anywhere. That's quite a different question. It does not say "they should be here by now" either.

The Drake Equation also does not say "they should be here by now." It only gives a MANNER for estimating the number of potential intelligent civilizations that can communicate via radio waves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

It doesn't even contemplate the idea of "they should be here by now" or alien visitation. And you can plug values into the equation that gives you numbers ranging from ZERO to 15,600,000 depending upon how conservative or optimistic you are with the various variables involved.

When you can't even get the basics right...

None of this says what you appear to think it says. You don't know the physics, you don't know the basic concepts, and you don't understand Occam's Razor.

Why hasn't secret advanced military drone technology been made public? Are you kidding me with that question?? I mean, seriously?
The maiden flight of the F117 was in 1977. The first public viewing of the F117 was 1990. 13 years later.

The Aurora is a plane that's been thought to be a Mach 5 spy plane in our arsenal since the mid 80s, but to this day, no one has verified if it's real or not.

The only reason we knew about the "stealth Blackhawk helicopter" is because it crashed in the bin Laden raid.

There possibly at least TWO "space bombers" that are still secret.

There's all sorts of stuff the military builds that isn't made public or "gone into production" the way you think.

I see nothing "instantaneously" accelerate out of the frame. I am not even sure what that's supposed to mean. All acceleration is instantaneous. If you mean if moves instantaneously over some large distance...no, not really, it moves to the left in a manner that's pretty easily seen by my eyes. If it were "instantaneous" it would simply disappear from the centered view and appear somewhere else far away.

It moves, very clearly from the center to off to the left...assuming of course that it didn't move vice the camera view moving, which we can't tell from that video. Breaking target lock could as easily be a flaw with the targeting systems as anything else, or it could be human tech that you know does that stealth thing we've been working on for about 40 years now.

There's nothing there that says OMG that has to be aliens. You want it to be aliens so you reject any and all other explanations and create more of your own.

[qazplm135]

41. well sure

the same could have been said of several different fighters we've built in the last 50 years depending on the time period.

I would assume that the reason it's secret is because it's better than "current aviation technology."

A drone with advanced tech is a plausible answer for something that flies faster, is more nimble and "ignores" G-forces.
More plausible than aliens.

[jayfish]

48. Yeah, only...

it embarrassed two Super Hornets. I don't think we are talking about incremental technology advances here.

Commander Fravor, in a recent interview with The New York Times, recalled what happened next. Some of it is captured in a video made public by officials with a Pentagon program that investigated U.F.O.s.

“Well, we’ve got a real-world vector for you,” the radio operator said, according to Commander Fravor. For two weeks, the operator said, the Princeton had been tracking mysterious aircraft. The objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. Then they either dropped out of radar range or shot straight back up.

The radio operator instructed Commander Fravor and Commander Slaight, who has given a similar account, to investigate.

The two fighter planes headed toward the objects. The Princeton alerted them as they closed in, but when they arrived at “merge plot” with the object — naval aviation parlance for being so close that the Princeton could not tell which were the objects and which were the fighter jets — neither Commander Fravor nor Commander Slaight could see anything at first. There was nothing on their radars, either.

Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. It was calm that day, but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.

Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape. The craft was jumping around erratically, staying over the wave disturbance but not moving in any specific direction, Commander Fravor said. The disturbance looked like frothy waves and foam, as if the water were boiling.

Commander Fravor began a circular descent to get a closer look, but as he got nearer the object began ascending toward him. It was almost as if it were coming to meet him halfway, he said.

Commander Fravor abandoned his slow circular descent and headed straight for the object.

But then the object peeled away. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said in the interview. He was, he said, “pretty weirded out.”

The two fighter jets then conferred with the operations officer on the Princeton and were told to head to a rendezvous point 60 miles away, called the cap point, in aviation parlance.

They were en route and closing in when the Princeton radioed again. Radar had again picked up the strange aircraft.

“Sir, you won’t believe it,” the radio operator said, “but that thing is at your cap point.”

“We were at least 40 miles away, and in less than a minute this thing was already at our cap point,” Commander Fravor, who has since retired from the Navy, said in the interview.

By the time the two fighter jets arrived at the rendezvous point, the object had disappeared.

[qazplm135]

49. First flight of a superhornet was 1995

So we are still talking 25 years ago

That's a long time for tech to advance.

[jayfish]

89. Ugh...

Read or watch the eyewitness reports. Whatever it was would have humbled any prior, current or next generation aircraft. It was beyond our materials and propulsion capabilities.

[qazplm135]

96. Ugh yourself

You have no idea what they did isn't within the ability of humans.
You have no idea it was aliens.
You want it to be.

[jayfish]

105. Please don't tell me what I do or do not know or believe.

I have not ascribed anything to you or any motive. I'm just going to leave it at this.

The following is a transcript from an episode of "“The Fighter Pilot Podcast” featuring USN Commander David Fravor:

VA: “Yeah, you’re welcome. So, it was November of 2004. You and I and all of our air wing bubbas were on the USS Nimitz, off the coast of Mexico, south of San Diego. And we were doing what we call workups, which are just exercises at sea to prepare ourselves for deployment. Which ended up being the 2005 deployment that was chronicled in the PBS, “Carrier” special. And we are out flying on a beautiful day. We have the USS Princeton cruiser, operating with us as an air intercept, control provider. Or, air defense commander, I suppose, you would call it. And so, you launch on a mission and just, if you would, give us a quick summary of what happened that day that then blew up on you earlier this year and caused so much attention from the press.”

DF: “Okay, so, 2004, we’re in one of the early gos. I think we were actually the first go. We’re gonna do an air defense exercise. Not only we’re gonna get training cause we’re gonna be the good guys. The Marines are gonna take off. They’re gonna be the bad guys. And we’re gonna actually work with the controllers on the Princeton to do the air defense of the carrier battle group.”

VA: “Okay, so it’s a 2 v 2, out over the ocean…”

DF: “”Yep. So we launch. We join up. We’re in, obviously VFA-41. We’re flying Fs. So I have a wizzo (WSO or Weapon Systems Officer ~Joe) in my back seat. And the other pilot and the other wizzo are in the other jet. So they join up…we’re driving out. We hear a little comm on the radio as we’re checking through all…you know going through strike, getting all checked in. And all of a sudden, the Princeton comes up and says, ‘Fast Eagle. Hey, say your load out. (laughs) And I actually laughed. I said, ‘Well I got a CATM-9, and with a sledgehammer, you can get it off the airplane.’ Cause you know how they’re locked on. It’s just a big…it’s a hollow tube. It’s no real motor but it does have a real seeker head and its for training only. And they said, ‘Well, we’re gonna cancel the air defense exercise training right now, we have real world tasking.’ And we were to proceed to about forty miles south of the carrier. So you were right on, so if you draw…if you look at a map and go from San Diego down to Ensenada, we’re kind of working around that area. Closer to Ensenada than San Diego.

“So, we start pressing out and they give us a vector of 270, at about sixty miles. So we start driving out towards the west. I’m the lead, so my wingman, the other airplane, gets on my lefthand side. So they’re sitting to the south. So, I’ll start referencing a clock cause it makes it easier to go. So as we start driving out, you know, they’re calling forty miles, thirty miles, twenty miles, ten miles…We’re not seeing anything on the radar. We’re both clean, which means we see nothing. Then, all of a sudden, the cruiser calls Merge Plot, which tells us that now, the blip that they were looking at, and us, are in the same resolution cell. So it just looks like one blob. They can’t tell us apart.”

VA: “You’re in the same vertical column of air.”

DF: “That’s exactly right. So as we’re looking out, you know, the heads start coming out cause we’re looking to see where this thing is at. And as we look down off the right side of the airplane, we see…so we’d be at the six o’clock position of a clock and this object would be in the middle. We look down…and what it looks like is something like a sea mount under the water. Because it’s a…no whitecaps, beautiful clear day and there’s just this white water. And if you’ve seen a sea mount – which I know you have – where the waves come in, they just break over this, in the middle of the ocean. And it tells you there’s probably something under the surface. We kind of see this and as we’re looking, the back-seater in the other airplane, Jim Slaight ‘Clean,’ goes, ‘Hey skipper, do you…’ And right about when he gets to the do you, I’m looking and I see this little white object. It’s kind of randomly moving around the disturbance under the water.

“Now it’s important…the disturbance, think of it as…what we first thought is…you know, it looked kind of like a 737 size-wise, pointing to the east. Alright? So it looked like it had kind of wings, you know like shapes…like a cross. It was the way the disturbance was set up. And the little, white Tic Tac – is what we referred to it as because that’s what it looked like – was kind of going north, south and then east, west. But it wasn’t changing its direction. It was elongated to the north/south. So the longitudinal axis of this thing was pointing north.

“So the first thing you think is, oh, it’s a helicopter, right? So as we’re looking at it and he goes, ‘Hey, do you see, what the…’ And I go, ‘Yeah, what the hell is that?’ And we’re looking.”

VA: “What’s your altitude at this point?”

DF: “Uh, we’re at about 20,000 feet. So we’re looking down. There’s no rotor wash. There’s no wings. It literally looks like a Tic Tac and it’s just flopping around, right? So we’re like, that’s kind of weird. So as we remove around towards about the nine o’clock position, I decide, ‘Hey, I’m going to go check that out.’ (both laugh).

VA: “Of course.”

DF: “So the other pilot says, ‘Hey, I’m gonna stay up high.’ I said, ‘That’s perfect. Just stay up here. Just mirror us and I’ll go down.’ So we’re having all this comms. And I’m also talking on the intercom to my back-seater. And we’re both, you know, kind of like, ‘Dude, what is that?’ And we have no idea. So, at about the nine o’clock position we start that slow descent and as we get around to the twelve o’clock…and we’re watching this. So this whole evolution’s gonna take about five minutes because we’re only dong around 300 knots. (345 mph ~Joe) We’re just kind of saving gas. So we get to about the twelve o’clock position and the thing, which had been pointing north/south, basically just turns. So now the longitudinal axis is kind of pointing to the west. And it starts mirroring us. So we’re in a slow descent, clockwise flow and it’s coming up the same way. So this thing’s been in a hover, right over the water, with no rotor wash or nothing and then all of a sudden, it goes…BOOP, and starts climbing.

“So we’re kind of looking at it and we go around, you know…all the way around. So as we approach about that six to eight o’clock position – actually, we’re at six and you know, we can watch it, it’s coming up below us. At about the eight o’clock position – we’re at eight o’clock and it’s over towards about two o’clock – there’s probably about, maybe about 3000 feet of altitude between us. So, we’re probably at about, you know, somewhere around the fifteen-ish thousand and then he’s probably around…the thing is probably around that eleven/twelve thousand, somewhere around there. So I go, ‘Well, the best way to fix it a two- circle, fight – so he’s on the opposite side of the circle – is cut across the middle of the circle. So I go, nose low, and cut across the circle and pull lead on it. So I, finally at the eight o’clock…think of it as, I point my nose down…I’m gonna cut across the bottom. I’m gonna make a big scoop out out of the bottom of it. I’m going kind of over towards three o’clock cause I wanna kind of be over there when he gets there. And as we start pulling nose up, the thing rapidly accelerates like from, just this nice, easy, kind of mirroring our speed to…poof, it’s gone as it crosses our nose. It just disappears.

“So we’re like…I go…I ask the other airplane, ‘Hey you guys see that?’ And they’re like, ‘It’s gone.’ Now keep in mind, they’re still above us. So it’s not like, you know…we have different perspectives of the object. And the object, we both see it just take off and disappear. So we’re like, (laughs) alright, now I’m pretty weirded out. So I said, ‘Hey, let’s turn around and see what was in the water. Cause we’re right there. So we basically just turned the airplanes around real quick and there’s nothing. There’s no disturbance, there’s no whitewater…as far as you can see, there’s nothing. So we kind of turn and I’m like, ‘Well, you know, look at the clock…but we gotta get some training done.’ And, I told my back-seater…I said, ‘Dude, I’m pretty weirded out. That’s…that’s odd.’ So…and the controller’s hearing all of this, so. I remember telling the controller, I said, ‘Hey, please tell me that you guys are gonna strip the radar tapes.’ And throughout this, he’s been telling us, ‘Hey sir, we’ve been tracking these things for like two weeks, since we got out here.”

VA: “Really?”

DF: “We got here in the beginning of the month. Remember, we got out in the beginning of November. It was a two-month at sea. Remember I was fighting to get home for Thanksgiving?”

VA: “Yeah.”

DF: “So, he says, Yeah, we’ve been tracking these things. They’ve been coming from, basically 80,000 feet or above 80,000 feet, coming straight down and hanging out at like 20,000 feet. And they had been tracking like, up to, you know…multiple. You know, I think it was like up to ten. And then they would hang out for a little bit and then they would go back up. And this was the first time that they had had manned airplanes, airborne when these things showed up. Which was, you know, it happens to be us. You know, I don’t know if that’s lucky or unlucky (both laugh). But, my life would have been just fine if this never happened.

DF: “No. This is where it gets…At first we thought…okay this is, this is kind of odd. We’ve got something that we have…we can’t control. We can’t…for the performance of it. You know, anything that hovers like that, doesn’t not accelerate like…you know. And you’ve seen…you know, I’ve seen airplanes doing 1.8 going by me doing the high fast like at Top Gun where guys are, you know, you just see the CONS coming. But to see something that literally accelerates. Cause even if you go to Mach II (approximately 1500 mph ~Joe) Think of a rocket that takes off. You watch it and those things accelerate relatively quick but you can watch them for a significant period of time. This thing literally disappeared in a matter of…you know, less than a second. It was in front of me and it was gone.

DF: “You know, my opinion and it’s not just my opinion…Lue, who did the…ran the Pentagon program. Him and I have talked extensively about this. It’s just…there’s an aura in the United States that when you see something like this. You know, normally the dude on TV that’s talking about, “Hey, I just saw a UFO,” he lives out in the middle of nowhere. Immediately, people discredit him. He’s alcoholic. Or, he’s kind of crazy. Or, this or that. So there’s always this perception that it’s better just to make fun of it. Because if it’s not real or we just ignore it, then it will just go away and it’s not a big deal. And I think now there’s a point of…cause you don’t know where it’s from. I don’t know if it was from China or Russia. And I always joke because, you know, right after we had that workup, I think it was Acani (?) who was out there working up when the sub surfaced in the wake and the whole world was like…it was a big deal. And I said, I guess maybe if the Tic Tac would have had like a symbol from a foreign country on it and we saw it, then it would have gotten paid more serious attention then.

“There’s a technology there that we can’t do much about. Because these things were coming for two weeks at will. And even if you go…what were they doing? Monitoring? Watching? Observing? Prepping the battlefield? You know? You don’t know what they were doing. But if you look at it and go…man for two weeks these things were showing up. They were coming from areas that we can’t do and then all of a sudden, they’re disappearing. You might wanna spend a little time to go, ‘God, what is that?’ What performance would it cost you to be able to do that? I mean we’re happy right now that Space X can land a rocket motor back on a pad. Well if you had that technology that we saw, it would make everything like that obsolete. It would make almost every propulsion mechanism we have, obsolete.”

VA: “So, based on that, in your gut, where do you think this thing came from?”

DF: “I don’t think it…honestly, I don’t believe the technology was developed here. And I mean like…”

VA: “Earth?”

DF: “…on this planet. I’m not…I don’t wanna…I don’t like to talk about aliens cause I don’t know what it was. You don’t even know…what…maybe it was unmanned. I don’t know. Because there’s also the theories that it accelerated so fast that a normal human, you know, a body…”

VA: “Fluids.”

DF: “…couldn’t sustain the force. But, I just don’t…I don’t think…I think, honestly if we had that technology, especially now that it’s been fourteen years since it happened…honestly if we had that technology in the last fourteen years, something would have leaked out. To hide that for that long, when it could benefit so many people, you know. Or maybe it wouldn’t? You know? I don’t know. But if you assume that they’ve got some new revolutionary propulsion that works by manipulating gravity, per say, then, I would like to think that…that’s a game-changer for mankind.”

You don't have to believe me but don't be a dick about it.

[qazplm135]

110. I'm sorry but if you think

me being a dick is me simply saying that what you are proposing has no evidence, is highly unlikely to the point of a lottery ticket, and has a myriad number of explanations before...aliens...well, then so be it.

If you said, one of the possibilities is aliens, that would be one thing, but the level of certainty you bring to it, and you're little "ugh" as if I was an idiot for not believing it's aliens was just as "dickish."

[jayfish]

133. No I was saying "ugh"...

because our discussion was going to devolve into you trying to prove that this tech is possible because an F-35 is more capable than an F-18. I suppose all of your "sighs" are less "dickish" though.

[qazplm135]

136. The F-35 development started

almost 30 years ago.

The first prototype flew almost 20 years ago.

Whatever prototypes we have now, are, obviously, 20 years more advanced than an F-35 and twice as advanced as an F-18.

So yeah, ya know...technology moves forward...sometimes at a steady pace, sometimes at leaps and bounds.

I remember the computers in school in the early 80s...and now we have cell phones that make those computers look like slide rulers.

[jayfish]

138. The F-35 Is Incrementally Better Than What Came Before it.

Which is incrementally better than what came before it. It's better, mostly, due to things outside of raw performance. This is not a Moore's law situation where everything is always twice as good as it was came before.

See, this is what I didn't want to get into.

[qazplm135]

141. incrementally?

It's a pretty significant jump...an entire generation in fact, of which there are only, currently two verified members the F-35 and the F-22. From avionics to electronics to target acquisition to stealth.

Now is it a single step from F-18 to F-35 to whatever this is? No.

No it's not Moore's Law, but that doesn't mean science takes tiny discrete "incremental" improvements in all ways all of the time.

Leaps happen. Stalls happen.

A leap could have happened to produce a craft that is significantly faster and more agile.

This is particularly not all that surprising now that we have advanced drone and AI capability. All the things we worry about to keep the pilot alive or to conform to a human pilots, well, piloting ability, we don't have to worry about with an advanced drone, particularly if it's paired with advanced AI.

I just find it amazing...aliens traveling vast distances to meet us...you're open to it. Humans creating these craft, that's crazy talk to you.

[jayfish]

143. No, Humans Creating These Craft In the last 20 Years Is...

unlikely to me. As far as aliens go. Who knows how far they came or for what purpose. ...or if they are there at all for that matter. They are alien to us.

ON EDIT: I think it's funny we're using the same methods against each other in different branches of this thread.

[Blue_true]

61. Have you ever heard of anything that has infinite deceleration?

Nothing that exist or will exist among us can do that without getting torn apart. A car going fast into a very thick wall is the closest example, but look at what happens to the car.

[qazplm135]

78. this craft didn't have "infinite acceleration"

which isn't even a thing unless you are a massless particle.

F=MA so if something has "infinite acceleration" it would also have infinite force unless it has no mass.

So I have no idea what your point is.

[Blue_true]

88. Going from dropping 60,000 feet in a second to standing still is close

to infinite deceleration, or as close as anything we know or could soon understand is capable of. Maybe I should use beyond comprehension ENORMOUS instead of infinite.

[qazplm135]

111. first of all

when someone says "gone in a second" that's a euphemism for "really fast."

He wasn't timing it, and he wasn't measuring it. But let's assume he was exactly right.

And second, no, it's not close...60K feet in a second is roughly MACH 55. That's fast, speed of light is about 186K miles per second. Not feet, miles.


We've reached MACH 10 with current tech in planes, MACH 25 with the space shuttle.

Now, assume it was oh I don't know, 60K feet in 2 seconds...because humans aren't perfect timepieces.

That's MACH 27, so only 2 off the space shuttle.

Now, what if he was off by say 10K feet or so. Not all that surprising given we aren't exact measuring devices.
Now you are at Mach 23, slower than the space shuttle.

Point is, we aren't talking exact numbers here because we have a guess from a pilot...no doubt it's better than you or I could guess but he's not a computer or a robot. We don't know that it was acceleration that was "beyond our comprehension." Even if we straight up use his estimate, it's not terribly off from what we could do in the 70s and 80s with rockets i.e. the Space Shuttle.

[Blue_true]

114. I will agree with you when the space shuttle can launch and immediately stop and hover.

Otherwise, I have said my piece over and over (spoken like Colonel Jessup opening of what the defense was entitled to).

[qazplm135]

116. sigh

so the first space shuttle took off almost 40 years ago.

40 years prior to that, we didn't even have rocket engines (technically the Germans had a prototype)...and our planes were going in the 300 and 400 MPH with propellers.

So you think, 40 years AFTER the space shuttle, we don't have stuff equally as advanced as the Space Shuttle was to a piston driven prop plane?

[Blue_true]

118. We don't have anything that can go from 25,000 mph to hovering instantly. nt

[qazplm135]

120. it didn't hover "instantly"

if we believe the eyewitness, it certainly came to a stop very quickly, it did not hover "instantly."

[Blue_true]

122. Look, you are not going to convince me, nor I you. Let's leave it at that. nt

[Blue_true]

90. The equation you listed is the force impulse equation.

An object can have plenty of mass if the force that changes the acceleration is also large. I have mentioned an unknown force several times, a simple description would be an anti-gravity force, although as I understand, it would have nothing to do with gravity. If aliens are able to modulate that force, it can use the same force being applied on the alien craft to instantly hover the craft, that outcome would seem to defy the impulse equation, but since the unknown force would be defined by another equation, the craft going into an immediate hover would not defy anything, it would simply be obeying the law of nature that defines the undiscovered force.

[qazplm135]

97. No what I listed is fundamental physics

Any object with mass that underwent infinite acceleration would feel an infinite force on it.

Only massless objects like photons can do it.

It's basic fundamental physics

[Blue_true]

98. You listed the force impulse equation.

Which applies only to gravity and impulse (explosive) force. I clearly pointed out that I subscribe to the theory that an undiscovered fourth primary force exists in the universe (with gravity not being a primary force). A alien craft that hovers instantly from a freefall would be applying that undiscovered force.

[qazplm135]

101. no I listed Newton's second law of thermodynamics

"The net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration of the object."

So if an object has mass, any mass, and it's acceleration is infinite...then the net force on that object is a number times infinity.

Which is?

Infinity.

Your mystical nonexistent "fourth primary force that isn't gravity" notwithstanding.

So not only do you posit that the aliens can ignore a fundamental principle of physics, but you propose they do it via some heretofore undiscovered hidden fundamental force that somehow cancels out one of Newton's laws.


No wonder you believe in aliens.

[Blue_true]

109. The "Principle of Physics" that you listed is based on gravity.

I have pointed out until my face turned blue that the unknown force IS NOT, NOR HAS ANY RELATIONSHIP TO GRAVITY. So, by simple deduction, any laws that apply to gravity do not apply to it.

"No wonder I believe in aliens"

Anyone that has any ability to think about our galaxy should understand that the probability of us being alone in our galaxy is about as high as standing right under a shitting bird and not getting hit with birdshit. I any planet within 5 Parsecs of us has highly intelligent life, the probability that we have or are being visited by aliens is very high, IMO. A distance of 20 Parsecs means that beings can reach us in around 20 years, which should be no issue for aliens that understand the forces of the universe. The nearest planets that may hold life are just over 1.3 Parsecs from us, which makes us reaches Le from there in around 5.4 years or much less less (the less depends upon how well the aliens us force compensation to negate the effects of rapid acceleration up to the speed of light). Really, aliens would not need to use much force compensation, it has been shown experimentally that a human being can survive 6-10G, some guy in a lab went up to 20G and lived. Accelerating at just 8G would put aliens at the speed of light in around 1.5 month, so a trip would take around 4.8 years (taking into account deceleration time).

"No wonder I believe in aliens" Oh well.

[qazplm135]

112. actually, no it doesn't

F=MA works just as well in a vacuum. It's not F=WEIGHT times acceleration...it's Force = MASS times acceleration.

It requires that an object have mass, it does not require gravity. It might require the Higgs Boson or whatever it is that ultimately gives particles mass, but it doesn't require gravity.

Photons don't care if they are in a gravitational field as far as how fast they accelerate (now the direction they go certainly is influenced).

I have no idea why you put it in quotations as if Newton's second law is somehow in question.

There is zero evidence that intelligent life is somehow spaced out every 5 Parsecs. A logical argument is certainly that life is likely to exist outside of our planet. Whether that life is intelligent, how often intelligent life arises, how long it lasts, all of that greater minds than you or I have been trying to figure out for awhile.

Basically, you've made up your own physical laws, you've made up your own "rule of 5 parsecs" (why not just use light years I don't know), and you've misunderstood Newton's second law to require gravity when it does not.

Humans can survive high Gs for a SHORT period of time. They cannot survive it for years. And yes, there are ways to get to an appreciable fraction of the speed of light using just our current understanding of physics. There are also a ton of barriers from shielding (both of cosmic dust and cosmic radiation) to power generation to life support to cost.

Yes, we could be alone in the galaxy. We could be the first or one of the first. It could take just this long to get a second or third generation, metal rich star with the right combination of planets and the billions of years to get past bombardments and whatnot til you finally reach an intelligent civilization. Or we could be one of many that's come and gone but destroyed themselves along the way or got destroyed by an asteroid or GRB or rogue black hole or stellar flare or rogue planet changing orbits or all sorts of dangers.

It's one thing to say...maybe, it's another to exhibit the kind of certainty some folks are exhibiting in this thread along with making up science and butchering well established scientific principles.

[Blue_true]

117. Your equation applies to gravity.

It does not apply to the Strong Force, the Weak Force or Electromagnetism.

I keep referencing an undiscovered force that some thinks theorize exists in the universe and you keep trying to define it in terms of gravity, it would not be gravity or have any relationship to gravity, I keep trying to explain that to you, but somehow I am not getting through.

[qazplm135]

119. sigh no it doesn't

it has nothing to do with fundamental forces in that way. It's laws of motion, not my laws, some really smart dude named Issac came up with them.

You keep trying to explain to me that you clearly do not understand Newton's Laws.

If I am in the middle of deep space, where there is no appreciable gravity, and I run into a pebble...F=MA will explain the damage to my windshield (or the complete destruction of my ship...depending on how fast I am going relative to that pebble).

Or when those engines kick on and acceleration comes, Newton's third law says that inertia will push me back into my seat with the same force so if you have "infinite acceleration" then me, the seat, and the entire ship gets instantly squished into nothingness.

[Moostache]

33. I treat these like I treat "ghost story 'proof' videos"...

With a healthy degree of skepticism!

Grainy, hard to decipher video is akin to the stuff you see as 'proof' for ghost sightings too.
Never in perfect focus, like say the buildings we blow up and capture video of the same way as the Navy footage...
Never in broad daylight, always in shadow or no light and always in the middle of the night...

Is it POSSIBLE? Sure, anything is possible until its shown to be either impossible or so improbable as to lack any meaningful difference with impossible. Wish it WAS possible to communicate to advanced life forms from a purely self-si desire for knowledge and information, but not for partisan or personal gain, I just do not see any evidence that holds up (IMO)...

[edhopper]

37. I don't see anyone saying UFO videos are fake

or that UFOs don't happen.

Is the Navy saying there is anything but a terrestrial explanation?

Is there anything in the video that says it is not terrestrial in nature?

Can't explain right now = aliens is a poor argument.

[Bayard]

38. "unidentified aerial phenomena."

You think we're fooled by that?

There has to be other intelligent species in this big old universe. Its the height of conceit to not believe that. I just don't know that they're interested in our little planet. They're probably observing long-distance what we are doing to Earth, and saying--HA! They won't be around much longer, so why bother?

[brooklynite]

39. Isn't it amazing that, as camera resolution gets better...

...and everyone has a camera on their phone, nobody is able to get a clear picture of anything out of the ordinary?

[MartyTheGreek]

42. There's a Slow Motion Disclosure Going On! Election 2016, Slowed it a bit more...

Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:02 AM - Edit history (1)

UFO buffs or ufologists, believed Clinton as the elected president, was to conduct a little disclosure of her own and a bit more than the big Disclosure Project of 2001 at The National Press Club during May 2001 and revealed by various government and former mililitary witnesses from around the world held this conference to disclosure their UFOs and UAPs encounters during their careers. Remember this big public reveal was just prior to 9-11 so this UFO disclosure story never had legs since 9-11 took up all the media oxygen but there was a closed session to congress presented by the witnesses on the same subject matter.

Jump ahead to the 2016 campaign and there's Hillary Clinton discussing UAP's or what Navy is now calling unexplained aerial phenomena on the Jimmy Kimmel show. And, don't forget that John Podestia always regretted not doing a UFO disclosure during Bill Clinton's term. Hillary Clinton Quote from Kimmel Show story on HP: "Clinton went on to tell Kimmel ― and America ― that, if elected president, she would “go into those files and, hopefully, make as much of that public as possible. If there’s nothing there, let’s tell people there’s nothing there. If there is something there, unless it’s a threat to national security, I think we ought to share it with the public.”

Now Hillary Clinton has had a UFO interest all the way back to The Rockefeller Initiate which was supposed to be a private and government reveal that never really got off the ground so to speak. There's a newer private UFO reveal initiative going on with some former rocker and former defense workers wanting to disclose what they know and this is around the same time that the "Tic-Tac" UFO vids leaked out. Remember the vids were not supposed to be released, yet they were... Hmmm...

Now we have Trumps Space Farce going to protect us! I feel safe for sure. Look peeps, if they were hostile, wouldn't we be gone by now? Maybe we are looking at a breakaway advanced civilization. Maybe even some of our related ancestors are among us. I have no fear. But I will be a bit concerned if Red Don and Vlad wanna start a UFO false flag or something!

[Arthur_Frain]

46. Everybody has 4K video on their phone these days.

This generation does not travel anywhere without said phone, and the reflex (which I simply lack, I’ve tried to develop it) to grab the damn thing and start videoing whenever anything takes place. Hell, there have been so many selfies taken since the advent of cellphones, that the law of averages demands there should be at least one random, irrefutable pic of a UFO by now. There really isn’t. Why? Always liked this explanation from Peter Mulvey in one of his songs. He asked a Russian astrophysicist he’d met on his travels this question.

"I've always wanted to know the answer to this question, and you strike me as the only guy I'm ever gonna meet that can give me an answer. So lay it on me, pal: Are there intelligent civilizations out there, other than us And if there are, then why haven't they contacted us?" Vlad looked at me over his glasses. "That is two questions," he said. "First question is easy to answer. The answer is yes, many. Given the number of stars, the abundance of amino acids everywhere in universe you look, very possibly many, many civilizations have risen. No, the second question, why have they not contacted us, that is the real question, and it is difficult to answer, but here is my best guess. You must use your imagination." And he held his hands out at shoulder width, and he said, "Imagine the entire universe is only about this big, only the size of a beach ball. I mean, universe is not spherical but go with me on this, okay? Now, imagine that all of time- thirteen and one half billion years from the big bang until now- imagine that that goes by in, say, five minutes. On that scale, consider us. We are an intelligent civilization, yes? We make radio waves, rocket ships, baseball, Great Wall of China, Bach sonatas- clearly intelligent civilization. The question is: how long do we last? Hm? Another 5000 years? 50,000? Another 5 million years? It does not matter. On the universal scale that I am asking you to consider, those all look the same, they look like this." And he held his hand in front of him, with thumb and forefinger pressed together, and parted them for the barest instant, and as he did so, he made a sound through his teeth, "Fss." He looked at me, to see if I understood. Every human that has ever lived, and will ever live... All the history that we have made and will ever make..."Fss." He paused, to let that sink in. It sank in. "So," he said, "here is the universe," and again he held his hands out defining the space
"And here are the intelligent civilizations as they arise in the universe." And he moved his hand here. "Fss." Then here..."Fss." Then here - "Fss." "You see?" He said, "They never meet each other. Time is too long, space is too large. I mean sure, maybe at one time, it happened that right next to each other at the same time- fss, fss - two civilizations sprang up and they had war, better yet they had peace, they had arts exchanges, they had an intergalactic library...but they are all dead now, too. In all likelihood, we are alone, and by the time the next civilization arises, we will have been gone for a long, long time."

If we could stop being so human-centered for a moment when we think about things like this, that really have nothing to do with humanity, we might make a few less obvious mistakes. There’s nobody else out there right now guys, at least not anywhere near enough for us to even hear their noise. The universe is really, really big, bigger than folks who imagine aliens might be interested in us (or be able to get here) stop to ponder.

[Moostache]

54. I completely agree that the Speed of Light barrier and distance make us alone forever...

The laws of physics simply cannot be overcome when it comes to light speed. The fastest POSSIBLE speed is that of a massless photon travelling at the speed of light. As you add mass to the equation, you run smack into relativity and the fact that to accelerate a mass to the speed of light, you would require INFINITE energy inputs for every incremental increase in speed.

At 90% of the speed of light, this is true.
At 99.9%, 99.99%, 99.999% and so on forever, it is true.

The more speed you wish to attain, the more the mass of the object you are accelerating works against you until you reach the realization that we cannot EXCEED the speed of light, and stars are really, really, really far apart in general...but in reality, even the closest ones like Alpha Centauri (4.7 light years away) are impossibly far in both time and distance.

Theoretical physics posits that wormholes may be able to bridge distant points in space-time, kind of like folding the distance into a more crossable crease between the points, but in reality we have no way of even opening a wormhole on Earth, let alone controlling it or directing it in a navigational manner.

We are alone...and we're also doing a really shitty job of leaving a legacy for others to potentially find in a far off future. There's a couple interstellar craft (Voyagers) out there forever...and the plaque on the Moon landing sites would testify that humans did manage to leave the surface of the world, but never really got more than a toe into the enormous universe.

[leftstreet]

62. !!

That was interesting, thanks for posting

So for those of us who don't 'science,' would it be possible that some form of energy input could exist, unknown to us, that could uh...propel an object without adding the mass you're talking about?

Thanks

[caraher]

66. Not under known physics

This is why so much speculative work on interstellar travel relies on either putting travelers into some kind of suspended animation or playing with the geometry of spacetime. It's not a matter of having different or better energy sources. A given force effects a change in an object's momentum. As one increases an object's momentum (mass times velocity), the speed asymptotically approaches the speed of light. The change in momentum manifests mainly as increase in mass.

It doesn't matter how the body gains its kinetic energy. If it has a given mass at rest and a given momentum, that automatically determines its speed (which will always be less than the speed of light) and mass.

[Blue_true]

64. You are prefacing all your analysis on what we know.

The "Laws of Physics" HAVE and will continue to change as we learn more. There was a time after Sir Issac Newton when it was believe that the acceleration of gravity was the fastest obtainable acceleration, we have human-made accelerations that are around 4-6x TAG.

I come from a school of thought that believe that an undiscovered force exists in the Universe. That force is why stars sit apart and why planets continue to orbit stars for billions of years, even after violent collisions. There is data to support the existence of such a force that changes with time, for example, one of Mars moons is slowly drawing closer to that planet, yet stays in orbit around it.

If aliens have learned how to use that force unknown to us, they can gain infinite energy by utilizing that force, totally negating your analysis (which relies on energy manufactured within the craft, not generated by the craft interacting with the unknown force in stellar and interstellar space). I have read one account where the unknown (to us) force was referred to as the "Second Force", because the proponent theorized that it had an origin similar to Gravity, but was a primary force (the theory being gravity was a second or third order phenomena and as such, not a primary force of the universe). You can ridicule such people, and maybe they are nuts in the end, but their logic is pretty compelling, also, through history, stuff that we now take for granted was considered nutty science by the "thinkers" or those eras and people who theorized other phenomena that turned out to be correct were called fools.

[caraher]

69. Your critique misrepresents the current understanding of physics

First, I'm just curious - can you give me a source for the story that it was once believed (and by whom) that 1 g was the fastest attainable acceleration? I do know that there was some lore in the early 19th century skeptical of the ability of humans to withstand speeds of travel we now view as quite modest, but even that was based less on physics than bad ideas about physiology.

I do think there's a lot of room for hitherto unknown forces to exist. I'm not aware of any anomalies in the orbits of Martian moons but the fact that galactic rotational velocities don't match visible matter well is the chief spur for ideas about "dark matter," and it's quite reasonable to imagine that a better explanation could lie in either a modified theory of gravity or some yet-undiscovered interaction(s).

BUT... it simply is not true that Moostache's argument "relies on energy manufactured within the craft." It is basic special relativity and applies whether or not the energy sources reside within the body in motion. Indeed, this effect governs every accelerator on the planet, and the subatomic particles being accelerated do so thanks to energy sources that lie outside them. And they never exceed the speed of light.

I can't evaluate any of the dissident theories you allude to, nor would I likely find it worth my time to do so. But I can evaluate your characterization of the present understanding of physics, and that characterization is incorrect.

[Blue_true]

72. The early thought on the G being the highest obtainable is spread throughout early

history after Newton. If you have not seen that, there is nothing that I can do. I did not say that a craft had to exceed the speed of light, I just disputed your proposition on there not being enough energy available for a craft to obtain the speed of light.

There are particles that travel near the speed of light through the vastness of space. They were once considered massless, but more recent approximations show that they have a small mass.

What is considered "dark mass" is likely the unknown (to us) force. If you analyze every possible phenomena with that in mind, you see that existence of that force answers every known phenomena and perturbation.

You should read up on Martian moon orbit. I forget which of it's two moons is the one losing altitude, but it is happening and in several billion years that moon is expected to strike Mars with enormous energy.

You seem to be a pretty bright person. My opposition should not be viewed as disrespect. Across history people have disagreed on physical phenomena, if that did not happen we would still be living in caves or trees.

[Moostache]

74. It is always possible to posit something unknown, and clearly that is intrinsically non-refutable...

But, in the world we live in, and with the physics (and more importantly the engineering capability we have available), the probability of contacting intelligent life elsewhere is vanishingly small.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong or visited by benign aliens, but neither one seems highly likely in my lifetime. Or the effective lifespan of the human race on its current glide path...

[Blue_true]

95. You make a good point. Something unknown is by it's nature difficult to prove

or disprove. But I honestly didn't use the term to pull a bullshit cover over people's eyes, literature that I have read use the term, along with a comprehensive theory about how the unknown force comes about.

Stuff like what we are responding about is why intelligent people have disagreed for ages, one group thinks it sees a possibility that an equally knowledgeable and skilled group does not see, in essence such a conflict is one of the key underpinnings of the part of any science discipline that deals with theory.

[Arthur_Frain]

71. I grew up watching Star Trek the original series.

Leaving aside all of the obvious problems in the physics of that imagined future, it was my fondest wish to live long enough to see mankind attain that kind of space travel, thought it would be so cool!

Watching our astronauts return from the international space station with serious physiological issues after relatively short stays cued me into another “adult moment”, realizing that biologically, we are very ill prepared to venture far from the planet at all. I wonder if the human body could really be “fooled” by artificial gravity? Somehow I don’t think so.

Yet another stumbling block aside from non attainable speeds.

[Clash City Rocker]

104. I believe that's why the starships on Star Trek use warp drive

They went to great effort to make everything realistic scientifically, and they knew that warping was about the only realistic way to travel between galaxies. There have been many technical innovations that were first predicted by Star Trek.

But I’m not a scientist, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[qazplm135]

123. oh I don't agree with that necessarily on the alone forever part

It's certainly a highly difficult prospect, and I don't believe aliens are visiting us currently.

But even if the fastest we ever got was 1/10th speed...we could "island hop" the entire galaxy in a not absurd length of time (about a million years). I suspect we could easily reach half light speed in say I don't know 200-300 years or less? Fusion or solar light sails could both accomplish that. That would cut the time down to about 200K years. Modern humans have already been around 200K years on this planet so that's not as long as you think.

Alpha Centauri would only be 8 years at 50 percent C, 40 years at 10 percent C. You send some 20 year olds and they are 60 by the time they get there. (I'd probably wait for the .5 C ships since they will probably get there first anyways).

Now, will we be around for a million years? well, like I said, we are already 20 percent of the way there...and dinosaurs were around for 150+ million years.

Point being, I agree aliens aren't very likely visiting us, and I agree it's awfully hard to travel interstellar distances...but forever? That's a mighty long time.

[hunter]

52. It's an Easter Egg in the software they cribbed from the video game industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_%28media%29

[ecstatic]

63. I believe the answer to this mystery lies in the ocean.

What do all of our UFO descriptions look like? Saucer or bowl shapes, which look like larger versions of well documented sea creatures, such as turtles, manta rays, etc. Some manta rays can jump out of the water briefly. We also know about sea creatures that have electricity, like the electric eel.

But what do we not know? A lot. There's still a lot we don't know, and there are still millions of undiscovered species. There are parts of the ocean that humans don't have access too. That is where the "aliens" are. They are simply undiscovered animals that can fly/and mimic lighting. Maybe global warming and the melting glaciers are forcing these creatures out of their comfortable hiding spots. I think we're going to meet a lot of new creatures as the planet nears it's next mass extinction event.

And before anyone rolls his/her eyes, consider that scientists just discovered the largest organ in the human body, the interstitium, last year.

Link to tweet

[edhopper]

75. You say we don't know...true

then assert unknown animals for which there is zero evidence. Deep sea creatures that can fly at near super-sonic speeds? Not a viable theory.

[left-of-center2012]

83. Yes. Flying fish.

... the objects appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet,
and then hurtled toward the sea,
eventually stopping at 20,000 feet
and hovering.

[ecstatic]

85. Another option is that another country has completely outgunned us.

Or that we're being visited by beings from another planet that's outside our solar system. Out of those options, which is the most realistic??

[left-of-center2012]

86. It's Lower Slovia's military !

[Tipperary]

67. Interesting. nt

[underpants]

68. Fascinating 👀

[Iggo]

70. "The Navy is pointedly not saying the objects are flying saucers or otherwise controlled by aliens."

Or controlled at all.

Just aerial phenomena.

[cbdo2007]

76. It is more likely that they are from other dimensions or using portals than they are really flying

through space.

There definitely is something weird and unexplained out there.

[left-of-center2012]

82. "from other dimensions"

Long been my theory,
along with the future.

[ecstatic]

124. Another dimension? Like the Twilight Zone?

[Mike Nelson]

79. It's time for journalists to...

... take into account our culture has altered the meaning of UFO. The term does not mean something is a spaceship controlled by an entity or entities not of this Earth. It most likely means something wasn't clear enough to be definitively identified.

[lindysalsagal]

93. Misleading title: Real what?

Makes it sound like the navy said alien ships are real. It says nothing of the kind.

[left-of-center2012]

94. Read it again

"... Those UFO Videos Are Real"

The videos of unidentified flying objects are real.

[Iggo]

113. Real videos. Those videos are definitely real.

[jayfish]

148. No, No, No...

don't play like that.

NBC News: Navy confirms videos did capture UFO sightings, but it calls them by another name

Three videos posted online that have been described as being related to UFO sightings do indeed include footage of “unidentified aerial phenomena,” a U.S. Navy spokesman confirmed.

But as for specifics, spokesman Joseph Gradisher said the Navy doesn't know exactly what the objects are.

"The three videos (one from 2004 and two from 2015) show incursions into our military training ranges by unidentified aerial phenomena," Gradisher told NBC News in an emailed statement.

[Iggo]

161. Here's my favorite part.

"Seth Shostak, senior astronomer and institute fellow at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California, said in an email Wednesday night that all that the Navy did with its confirmation of the videos and the “unidentified aerial phenomena” was confirm that the videos were authentic.

“The videos weren’t really being questioned. What IS being asked is ‘what the heck are these things?’” Shostak, a regular contributor to NBC News MACH, said in an email. “Now I think if the answer were easy, that would be known by now. But when I look at these things I see no reason to consider them good evidence for ‘alien visitation,’ which is what the public likes to think they are.” "

Yep. Real.

[jayfish]

164. Ok, The Aviators Who Were In The Airspace With The Objects Say...

they don't believe they are of terrestrial origin. I'm an amateur astronomer myself so I respect the opinions of other astronomers but; the guy wasn't there, didn't see it with his own eyes and didn't engage it. The Navy is dancing around this and I don't blame them.

“Those three videos are just part of a larger effort by the U.S. Navy to try and investigate a series of incursions into our training ranges by phenomena that we’re calling unidentified aerial phenomena,” says Gradisher, who declined to say how many sightings there have been. “Our aviators train as they fight. So when they’re out there training, if there’s an incursion by any kind of aerial vehicle phenomena, whatever, it puts the safety of our aviators at risk as well as the security of our training operations.”

So what are they? Who do they belong to? Why isn't the tech mainstream by now?

ON EDIT: For your reading enjoyment...

A List of UFO Sightings by Astronomers (Compiled in 2000)

I've never seen anything out of the ordinary in the eyepiece BTW.

[Iggo]

166. I don't know what they are.

But there's a whooooooole lotta steps I gotta go through before I come to a conclusion that it's aliens from another planet.

What on Earth flies?
What on Earth builds and flies aircraft?
What on Earth builds and flies secret aircraft?
What on Earth builds and flies secret aircraft that uses tech that regular people never heard of before and that most of these regular people may have thought was impossible?

That's one obvious line of questioning (and there's a whole lotta steps I skipped in that line, too, otherwise we'd be here all day.) And still that's miles before we get to aliens from another planet or dimension.

[Stuart G]

99. Of course they are real.......Why? Simple..although you will not believe it.

.... There are billions and billions of planets out there. Most are not inhabited. Some are..(millions are)..so..if just 1 percent, that is ten thousand times unknown...??? are in habited by people who have advanced just 1000 years ahead of us...then why wouldn't they come and take a look..The Day the Earth Stood Still, 1950 Michael Rennie, directed by Robert Wise..

........Of course, they are smart enough to leave this group alone (that is us) .....but they are here to watch and make sure that we do not blow up the universe..

So you don't believe??...go back 60 years and say that everyone will own a computer that doubles up as a phone and you can carry it around in your pocket and call anyone anytime just by pressing buttons...(no dial)
That stuff was on Star Trek with the "communicators"..

They have visited and left us alone. Oh you don't believe?...Go back 150 years and describe flying near the speed of sound across the Atlantic in a huge thing we call an "airplane" with 300 people aboard..

enough..!!! beware of that skunk outside, it may be an alien in disguise..

[Lady Freedom Returns]

100. Aliens to the Navy...

Take us to anyone but your leader.

[Polybius]

121. Was there ever any doubt?

The videos were released to the public over a year ago. Back then it was listed as official and not fake.

[Kid Berwyn]

126. Fascinating subject...especially of interest to Pentagon.

UFOS INVADING MILITARY AIRSPACE MULTIPLE TIMES PER MONTH, BUT PUBLIC WON'T BE TOLD MORE

BY ANDREW WHALEN
Newsweek, May 1, 2019

Since 2014, UFOs have intruded upon military airspace as often as several times per month, a military official told the Washington Post. In a follow-up published by the Post on Monday, the same official said that the U.S. Navy will not share any more information regarding what they call "unexplained aerial phenomena" with the public, despite drafting formal procedures to document UFO sightings on an ongoing basis.

"There have been a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air spaces in recent years," the Navy said in a statement released to Politico, who first reported on the new approach. "The Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in drafts."

Snip...

But while the Navy plans to keep its UFO sightings out of the public eye, the politician who helped fund the Pentagon's shuttered UFO program, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), says UFO sightings are far more common in military circles than previously revealed.

Speaking with CBS affiliate KLAS in Las Vegas, former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid described widespread sightings on military bases. "You can't just hide your head and say these things are not happening," Reid, who has previously described a UFO arms race between the United States and competing countries, told the I-Team's George Knapp. "We have military installations where hundreds and hundreds of people who are there see these things."

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/ufo-sightings-2019-us-military-tic-tac-pentagon-navy-unidentified-aerial-1412272

[PhoenixDem]

128. oh wow

That is unreal

[Polybius]

135. Perhaps it's Project Aurora

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2019, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Or maybe even it's successor. Hypersonic aircraft (Mach 5 and up) would certainly seem like an alien spacecraft at first. Still, that sudden turn is something pilots likely wouldn't be able to survive.

Hpersonic drone that doesn't use fuel propulsion? That seems crazy too but what else could it possibly be? Here's the options, in no order:

1) Aliens: Unlikely they could get here

2) Hypersonic plane: The speed makes sense, but that sudden turn would kill the pilots.

3) Drone: A normal drone, no way, especially not in the early 2000's

4) Some anti-gravitational device flown remotely. It doesn't use fuel or electric - it uses nothing. Created by a mad scientist or maybe another country. Could also be internal military.

Which seems most likely? Care to add any options?

[jayfish]

140. You're Not Going To Like This One.

5) A prototype ROV using technology reverse engineered from a more advanced species of unknown origin.

Just saying...

[yortsed snacilbuper]

159. Did this happen in the Bermuda Triangle?

[jayfish]

167. If You Have Any Interest In This What-so-Ever, This is a Must Watch.

Well... Skip the Jeremy Corbell sections.