Ukraine is NOT the story?

[kentuck]

We have learned to be very skeptical of this Administration and recognize their ability to manipulate the news media.

Rep. Jackie Spier (D-CA) was on CNN this morning and said that the IG never mentioned Ukraine in their closed hearing yesterday? They still do not know what was in the whistleblower's charge.

The timeline would suggest that the Ukraine story was not the primary concern of the whistleblower when he went to the IG on August 12th. The timeline that was shown on CNN, showed that Trump's demands to the Ukraine leader happened in late August? It was then that the Congress became very suspicious of withholding funds from the Ukraine and why?

But, it has been reported elsewhere that there was more than one incident that was reported by the whistleblower. This Ukraine story may be only a small part of the bigger picture? It's hard to imagine Trump making a deal with the Ukraine leader without Vladimir Putin being involved also.

This may be nothing more than a diversion from a much bigger story?

This may be only a creation of the Trump propaganda machine?

[Funtatlaguy]

1. Maybe it leads here.

[Mike 03]

2. There could be another shoe to drop

A brilliant DUer posted a four-step theory yesterday, the first two steps of which are the current breaking news. The second two steps involved a promise made to Russia, which would make this even bigger. But it's quite big. Remember, the I.G. didn't comment on any of the details, so that doesn't necessarily rule out Ukraine either. But you could be right; we'll hopefully see much more on this soon.

[kentuck]

4. Also, where would the "promise" fit into the Ukraine story?

I think the "promise" may have been made to someone else.

[Mike 03]

6. This other theory...

He theorized that after the Ukraine told Trump to pound sand, Trump then promised Putin that Russia could increase military operations in Ukraine and there would be no sanctions.

That's another poster's theory, but I'm excited about it because the first two steps have panned out. It also fits with what we know about how Ukraine would respond to being blackmailed. And now you've got the White House and Giuliani trying to front-run this thing and make it sound completely normal.

[kentuck]

9. He may have "promised" Putin that the Ukraine would not get the weapons?

I doubt that Donald Trump would do anything in the Ukraine without Putin's knowledge and approval?

There is a conspiracy to be uncovered, in my opinion.

[Mike 03]

10. That works too! That's excellent in fact. Does it fit the timeline? nt

[kentuck]

11. Don't forget.

Trump is Putin's puppet.

[triron]

30. Hillary tried to tell us in 2016.

[kentuck]

34. Indeed she did.

She has been right on every point.

[ewagner]

43. Or, as was posted elsewhere on DU....

Trump promised that he would get Ukraine to cede control of a portion of the Ukraine to Russia...

Trump then blackmailed Ukraine President that he would withhold $$$ and weapons unless the land was ceded to Russia.

Ukraine President ceded control to Russa

Trump released $$$$....added getting dirt on Biden as a "kicker"/

[machoneman]

26. Here's only one way: Trump promises Putin....

...in Call #1 that he will withhold the millions in aid Congress approved. Trump calls (Call#2) the Ukrainian leader and tells him no aid unless they play ball and re-open or actually indict Hunter Biden and his dad. Call #3 is finally initiated by Trump to say he made the pitch and hopes they agree. Later, the plea is rejected. That's 3 calls and 2 promises.

Odd too that just before this entire sad story broke (to us at least) Trump agreed to release the funds. Gee, I wonder if he was told the heat is on, the whistleblower will eventually be heard and his Barr-lead DOJ attorneys concocted still another scheme to evade prosecution by releasing said funds?

No doubt about it!

[Chemisse]

41. The whistleblower story has been out and simmering for a couple of weeks.

And Trump released the funds right around the time it first came out.

[Firestorm49]

3. A diversion from a bigger story? Yes

IMHO, the spy who had to be extracted out of Russia is the tip of the iceberg. My opinion is that the revelation of the US having a top level spy close to Putin is the kind of information the Blabber In Chief would have knowingly let out. The Ukraine story is the diversion.

[Erda]

28. I was thinking the same thing.

When Barr initiated the probe into the origins of the Russia allegations against Trump, he must have uncovered the spy's identity and whereabouts. Then suddenly and after two years of secrecy, the spy's identity and whereabouts were leaked to the press. I think Barr's and Trump's fingerprints are all over the leak. Of course, I could be wrong, but the Barr probe and the leak are too coincidental in my opinion. Both Trump and Putin are vindictive.

[Dream Girl]

5. Yes because the Ukraine thing was already out there. Saw some thing about it on DU actually

[Iliyah]

7. The real story?

The Republican party refusal to ring shithole in and save what is left of democracy.

[DemocracyMouse]

29. Agreed. Shithole just keeps shitting.

I wish there was a system in place where every time it appears there is something nefarious going on, a prominent Dem takes a turn at the "wheel of derision." That is, every prominent Dem, appointed by Nancy Peolosi with a simple phone call, takes a turn deriding the Republicans for putting up with Trump and allowing him to degrade both their party and all of the USA, USA, USA along with it. Go for the patriotic jugular with statements like:

"How can you keep supporting this goon and still pretend to love your country and your fellow countrymen?"

And:

"We are addressing YOU, because some of you may still have half a brain. That idiot in the Whitehouse, who did not, let me remind you, win the popular vote, is completely out of control and loves lining his pockets more than principle."

Rhetoric matters.

[Freethinker65]

8. What did Trump offer NK for his photo op in the DMZ?

What deal has Trump struck for his threat to Iran?

Trump considers these things to be merely "deals". Trump will gladly offer up taxpayer money, policy changes, and even classified information, if Trump believes it will help him consolidate power and enrich/protect himself.

There should be more leaks/whistle blowers.

[Hortensis]

12. Lol. No, it's not Trump-Putin propaganda. We can be sure of that.

I think you'd do better to give more consideration to the analyses of a great many who make their living watching, working for (now or at one time) and investigating this administration. Also the very brave whistleblower who, if things went very wrong, could spend decades in prison courtesy of the extremely vicious and lawless Republican leadership.

And, of course, at the same time watch for attempts by players like elements in the NYT and AP to sabotage the story to protect the Republicans in an election year.

If there is far more, though, and we know there is at least more, this isn't going to be a diversion but a big arrow pointing in the direction of what really needed to stay hidden.

Wonder what our Democratic intelligence committees knew or suspected and when? And what else? Imagine being a staffer with ...what? coming across your desk. For sure, it'd spoil political talk shows for you. But, boy, would it be worth it.

[kentuck]

15. I believe what comes out of the House Intel Committee...

None of this stuff reported in the Washington Post came out of the House Intel, as far as we know. Jackie Spier says Ukraine was never brought up in the closed hearing yesterday.

Which analyses do you give the most respect?

[Hortensis]

18. All of them. We know nothing. Not yet.

Believing some things, ruling out others at this point would make sense if this was a party game.

As for not bringing up Ukraine, that hearing was not about the subject of the whistleblower's complaint but about reporting it to congress. An enormous, nation-shaking issue all by itself. In 230 years we've never had a president and major political party conspire like this to break every law that gets in their way.

[kentuck]

20. I think you said the magic word - "conspire"

I think there is a conspiracy in this story and there is a lot we still do not know.

[Hortensis]

23. Agree. I think we can responsibly assume conspiracy.

[Mike 03]

17. Thanks, great post.

I'm biased because I liked Greg Miller's book so much, but I've found the Washington Post to be so wired in when it comes to the intel stories. I do trust them, and to my knowledge they've never had to retract an intel story.

[Hortensis]

22. Me too. I believe the WaPo was the first major paper to report NYT's

blatantly election-subversive Halloween 2016 story, which in essence told the nation the FBI's investigation of Trump-Russia hadn't found anything, when in fact they were very actively investigating, and broadening. If not, it was right behind.

[highplainsdem]

13. Trump's phone call with the Ukrainian president was July 25.

And the additional incidents would have been Trump using Giuliani to try to get fake dirt on Biden from Ukraine.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Ukraine is only part of the story

Part 2 is Trump’s phone call with Putin.

That’s my guess.

[kentuck]

16. That would be my guess also.

Simply because Trump would do nothing without Putin's approval. He is his puppet.

Also, the "promise" was probably to Putin, not the Ukraine leader.

[ewagner]

45. Exactly...

Just need to know what promise was made ...

[Mike 03]

19. There's the man!

This is the DUer whose theory I've been telling you about, hoping he would show up!

Great job!

[dalton99a]

24. +1

[lanlady]

42. Your guess is spot on

No way that Trump didn't trash Zelensky on his subsequent call to Putin. The "promise" part of the story probably concerns him pledging something to Putin in return for his help in putting pressure on Ukraine. When Trump gets possession of an idea, he doesn't let go.

[ewagner]

44. Me too!

[PhoenixDem]

21. This story has legs

It will not go away - it is hiding an impeachable offense (one of hundreds but much easier to explain)

[floppyboo]

33. Problem could be if Dems don't win the senate

it could be impeachable for a President Biden too. What a mess. Need President Sanders!

[floppyboo]

25. As of this morning, we know it was a call to Ukraine.

The Biden's son story looks most likely to me. The US can't advance any investigation without Ukraine's first move. This was shelved under Obama. Now, we've got the 'Let's Make a Deal' host leading.
What could go wrong?
Edit: Ukraine's election led to a new Ukrainian AG (or equivalent) and he said he would only pursue the case, which had been shelved, if requested to do so by the US AG. So, guess it was the US's call. A promise as a quid pro quo seems de rigeur for international politics, and when that involves something so pivotal to the power balance in Europe as Ukraine, well, its going to be sensitive.
And its not like it hasn't happened before. ie. Victoria Neuland. The leak of her communications screwed many careers.

[MySideOfTown]

27. Another possiblility

Trump and Bibi got together to launch a cruise missile attack on the Saudi refineries and false flag it to Iran to facilitate both of their elections.

The Saudis insist the attack came from the north. Iran is to the east, particularly so with regards to their location.

The Saudis said this is their 911 which may be ironic since they may think they got blamed for the twin towers, and they know that was a false flag. See 911 truth.

The photos show cruise missiles with stenciled text: MC 40590. If the missiles were Iranian that would be in Farsi, you would think, or if Israel in Hebrew.

The countries to the north of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Israel.

Which of these countries has advanced drones and cruise missiles. some of which may be of USA origin, given MC 40590?

Connecting the dots. Either Israel or Saudi.

Since Bibi lost, Trump may think it's a good idea to distance himself by throwing Bibi under the bus and distracting everyone else with the Ukraine thing we already knew about.

[floppyboo]

32. possible. Do you think this is another false flag, the call coming from Ukraine?

I'm not entirely sure the Saudi oil storage tanks (not refinery - first clue to mis-direction) has anything to do with this.
Also, I'm thinking it could also be Al Queda, out of Iraq or Jordan. They'd love to see the Kingdom get on the right side of 'their' story. Also, see 9/11 and the Kingdom vs. Wahabi side of the family.
note: oil tanker attacks in June co-incide with binLaden's' son's death.

[MySideOfTown]

36. Storage tanks, remarkable accuracy

indicative of laser designation. and as I understand repaired already.

Sure, al queda, probably from their hide outs in tunnels somewhere, haha.

The phone call with the Ukraine will soon be made available and will appear just as innocuous as they say. Everyone will throw up their hands and forget about this, never having seen the IG report.

edit. There is likely a new complaint being prepared in lieu of the original to replace it, or there was never an original. Lord knows they've taken the time to make a forgery. Another false flag? See 911 truth. The only hope we have is Coats and Summers write a book.

[MySideOfTown]

37. It was Saudi 911 except on 914.

n/t

[MySideOfTown]

38. The second to last crown of PNAC

stalled because Bibi lost his election. So far.

[MySideOfTown]

39. Lets you and him fight.

So if Iran and Saudi face off because of this, the last crown falls. A good plan on the behalf of the Neocons. They all fall down. Ashes, Ashes.

[pbmus]

35. Interesting, very interesting...

[ewagner]

46. I've been wondering when somebody would notice this:

"...The photos show cruise missiles with stenciled text: MC 40590. If the missiles were Iranian that would be in Farsi, you would think, or if Israel in Hebrew."

I don't know where the drones came from but the markings and "inventory numbers" on them made me very suspicious of some kind of a false flag operation.

[Buckeyeblue]

31. In normal times we would dismiss all of these theories

But everyday of this administration has been stranger than the day before.

I would think at a certain point in time the Republicans are going to want to be done with Trump. But until then, nothing will happen.

[Firestorm49]

40. It's the spy thing. The Ukraine is a diversion.