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Why are laws disregarded or inadequate? No one could anticipate such a corrupt (Original Post) triron Sep 2019 OP
My thoughts exactly. nt GemDigger Sep 2019 #1
political institutions operate within a framework of social norms stopdiggin Sep 2019 #2
Because laws are based on people following the norms and on consequences. Caliman73 Sep 2019 #3

stopdiggin

(11,301 posts)
2. political institutions operate within a framework of social norms
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 03:24 PM
Sep 2019

And they don't work without them. It's been pointed out quite frequently (particularly of late) but people still don't get exactly what it means. Example: It is almost impossible to do business with someone that you know is a cheat. You can draw up an ironclad contract, but the cheat can still leave you hanging (bankruptcy, shell companies, asset and accounting fraud) and leave you with very little recourse or redress. The upshot is you have to walk (even if the deal seems a great one) because you realize that a contract is not protection against a criminal and a cheat. Earlier generations understood this implicitly. That's why terms such as "honor" and "a man of his word" held such weight. Without these things .. we can't work together. No trust, no deals, no community, no government.

Caliman73

(11,736 posts)
3. Because laws are based on people following the norms and on consequences.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 03:57 PM
Sep 2019

I drive faster than the posted speed limits at times. I know that speed limits are typically designed as safety measures based on population density, traffic flow, road surface etc... I have never been in a traffic accident that was my fault, ever. I have been in two traffic accidents in my life, one where I was clipped in my rear quarter panel as I merged into the highway by a teen driver turning into my lane to avoid slowing traffic, and another where a car rear ended one car and pushed that car into my back bumper as I was waiting at a light. I have never been in a traffic accident that was the result of excessive speed (breaking the speed limit), but I am breaking the law and taking a risk when I drive over the limit. I am breaking the social contract for safety and If I get caught and penalized, then I deserve that consequence. I try not to speed most of the time, though I also travel with the flow of traffic because not doing so is also increasing the risk of collisions. Anyway, all laws are made based on a social contract of behaviors that try to limit the damage we can do to one another and the expectation is that we follow the laws out of mutual respect and benefit.

Conservatives say they are the "law and order" party but they are liars. They break the social norms, the rules, and the law at their discretion but then when Democrats/Liberals fight back by even calling them out or calling them cheaters they decry the insult to "civility". They call Democrats and Liberals "socialists" and say they are "tearing down" the country's values when in fact conservatives are the ones destroying the ideals and institutions in order to push through their agenda.

What is the solution? That is a hard one. Cheating like them, is not okay. If we have to cheat and debase ourselves by acting like Republicans, then the country isn't worth saving. We need to have better ideas, louder ideas, and when we get into power, we need to enforce the rules and give consequences to those who have broken them.

Remember that Nixon was corrupt before Reagan was corrupt, before GHW Bush and W Jr. were corrupt, and that Newt Gingrich was corrupt before Dennis Hastert was corrupt, before Tom Delay and then John Boehner. Mitch McConnell was doing crooked stuff way before Trump was elected.

This may be extreme but if "no one could anticipate it" then people had their heads up their assess. THIS is where right wing politics ALWAYS leads. Look at EVERY Central and South American country and tell me that right wing politics leads to good governance.

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