Death of a Notion

[H2O Man]

“The beast in us must be wheedled: ethic is necessary, that we be not torn to pieces/”
Friedrich Nietzsche


Being old and feeble, I have more doctors' appointments than I care to think about. I've developed a technique to make them more pleasant: I start conversations about politics as soon as the medical professionals enter the room. Although each and every nurse and doctor knows I'm attempting to distract attention from why I'm there, the tactic is successful.

I remember back in January of 2017, one gentleman who was a registered republican at the time told me that he was confident that Donald Trump would rise to the occasion of being president. This was, I knew, a whimsical notion. It died within the next year, and by the time of the 2018 midterm elections, this doctor told me he had registered as an independent.

The “beast” we know as Donald Trump wheedled. He has no ethics. Rather, he is convinced that he is entitles to tear the Constitution to pieces in a manner that feeds his ego as it lines his pockets.

I have some friends and associates who have not shared my belief that the Democrats in the House of Representatives needs to impeach Donald Trump. Be patient, they have said, and focus upon the 2020 presidential election. Any impeachment would be sure to not only fail to result in a conviction in the republican-led Senate, but it would divide the country. It's safer and more prudent to wait to beat Trump at the ballot box.

Until this week, although I strongly disagreed with their concept of “safer” and “prudent,” I respected their right to their opinion. I wasn't sure how they thought impeachment would “divide” the country more than it very obviously already is. It seemed a strange notion.

Hopefully, in light of the news about the whistle blower, Trump's conversations with the leader of Ukraine, and the White House's attempt to bury the story, all Democrats will recognize that the notion we should wait until the 2020 elections has died.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Pogo said it first

[burrowowl]

7. Love Pogo

the strip is still very relevant

[H2O Man]

17. I agree.

[kentuck]

2. A strategy would be nice.

I posted this in another thread. I think it is a strategy that would work.
=================

I am not going to dump on Pelosi but I can give you a time line...

First of all, get at least 218 Democrats to vote for an official Impeachment investigation. Not an impeachment, an investigation.

Secondly, call witnesses before the Committee continuously and keep Donald trump on the defensive. Do not feel that there is a time limit where you must finish. Why send it over to the Senate if they are just going to shoot it down?

In fact, keep the investigation going right up to election day, unless Republicans show that they are serious about impeachment. The goal of the Democrats should not be to impeach but to get out all the facts and educate the voters. Destroy him with a thousand slices.

Pull a Mitch McConnell ! Refuse to take a vote. Keep investigating right thru election day.

Then, after the election is over, if Donald Trump loses, then Hurrah! If he keeps the White House and the Democrats keep the House, then they just continue the impeachment process in the new Congress.

Finally, after all the investigations and all the facts have come out, impeach his sorry ass!

That would be the best time line, in my opinion.

[ancianita]

8. I like this. Glad you reposted it.

[alwaysinasnit]

10. Excellent.

[tclambert]

11. That's essentially what the Republicans did with Benghazi investigations.

And they felt the investigations had the desired effect of pulling votes away from Hillary.

[Ligyron]

13. That is certainly an improvement to what is occurring (so far).

Like you said, so what if the Senate will not convict, just don't send it over this term.

We need to dominate the airwaves and bombard the public with their crimes, not Trump and Faux's latest BS distraction.

[H2O Man]

18. Thank you!

I saw that, and had wished I could recommend it. It looks like the stuff of a great OP, which I hope you will consider.

The Mueller Report's parts 1 and 2 laid out a roadmap for impeachment -- especially, of course, part 2. And the business about the whistle blower provides a flashing red light that should guide the Democrats.

[dhol82]

3. Not only does he have no ethics, he has no morals

He is the poster child for an amoral, evil entity.
Ethics?
Morals?

I worry that it is too late to impeach and remove from office.

[H2O Man]

20. Right.

Over the past 18 months, there have been a couple of community members here who have disagreed with my saying that Trump is the poster child for sociopathy. I've referred them to the powerful book, "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump." The book was updated with new contributions by some of the top mental health professionals this year. More, Trump continues to display more evidence for our consideration on a daily basis.

I'm not sure about removal from office. But it would be beneficial to have televised impeachment hearings in the House in 2020.

[unblock]

4. impeachment won't divide the nation. it can only illustrate how donnie has already divided it.

personally, i go back and forth about impeachment, because i don't see particular value in a pyrrhic victory or a grand, futile gesture.

i care most about restoring democracy, which includes but is hardly limited to getting donnie out of office and getting democrats into office.

impeachment may or may not be a useful means to that end, but that's only way in which i'm interested in impeachment.

if impeachment followed by a craven, self-serving senatorial refusal to convict motivates democrats to turn out in force in november 2020, then i'm all for impeachment.

if that same scenario leads democrats to shrug, oh well we tried, and ha ha, he forever has the taint of impeachment but then he gets re-elected, then no, i'm not interested in impeachment.

[Martin Eden]

21. "I care most about restoring democracy"

So do I, because if we don't fix our democracy nothing else will get fixed.

The question is how.

Of one thing I am certain:
When our democracy is under assault, it is absolutely necessary for our representatives to respond with every power granted them in our Constitution (also under assault) which is the foundation of our representative democracy.

When a president has egregiously and repeatedly committed high crimes and misdemeanors in that assault, the Constitutional course of action is crytstal clear:

Impeachment.

Failure to impeach would be a profound dereliction of duty.

Choosing not to impeach based on partisan political calculations is a corruption of our democracy, which is what Senate Republicans will do when they decide to acquit (assuming the House votes to impeach).

Should Democrats join Republicans in that corruption of our democracy?

Should we estsblish a precedent that this POtuS (and future presidents) can commit brazen acts of impeachable offenses with impunity?

Neither of us know for certain what effect impeachment in the House will have on the 2020 election. Personally, I think the Democratic Party will do much better if we go on the offensive, show some spine & spirit, and continually shed light on Trump's impeachable offenses for the millions of voters who are woefully uninformed.

When in doubt, do the right thing.

Without a doubt, adhere to the Constitutional principles of our democracy if we truly want to save it.

[H2O Man]

22. Thank you!

If the House doesn't impeach, we can be certain that a central theme of Trump's 2020 campaign will be that both Mueller and the Democrats "vindicated" him. He might win, and the republicans will definitely maintain the majority in the Senate.

With impeachment, we win the White House and have a very good chance of taking the Senate.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

24. I want the Senate!

I want Kentucky rid of the shame of Moscow Mitch, too, but would gladly keep a bag over my head in exchange for taking the majority in the Senate.


ITTMFA

[H2O Man]

26. Me, too.

And it is a real possibility, an option that is available to us.

Seeing Moscow Mitch lose would be delightful.

[Hekate]

5. Get thee to the greatest page

[H2O Man]

23. Thanks!

[malaise]

6. THIS

Hopefully, in light of the news about the whistle blower, Trump's conversations with the leader of Ukraine, and the White House's attempt to bury the story, all Democrats will recognize that the notion we should wait until the 2020 elections has died.

K & R

[H2O Man]

25. Thank you!

Let's hope we don't have to attend a funeral for the Constitution.

[ancianita]

9. I hope you're right. Thanks.

[H2O Man]

27. Thank you!

Chief Seattle was a great example of a true leader. I think of him every time I read one of your posts on this forum.

[ancianita]

38. ...

[superpatriotman]

12. He will not leave

And we have no mechanism to make him do so.

[H2O Man]

29. Respectfully disagree.

If we look at Trump's past, we find that while he bluffs and looks for any advantage he can get by cheating, he always backs down in the end. His essence is that of the most cowardly of cowards.

More, one would have to assume that the Secret Service, the House and Senate, and the military -- and his administration -- would sit quietly while he demanded that dispite impeachment, he was still president.

That combination results in there being zero chance he would "not leave." Zero.

[hay rick]

14. Impeachment is a hard choice, but also an easy choice.

It's a hard choice because it will make a divided nation more divided. Trump and his supporters will scream that they are victims and our feckless media will obsequiously report "both sides of the story." The seemingly inevitable acquittal by a corrupt Senate will be trumpeted as exoneration and will improve Trump's chances for reelection or provide fodder for his case if he refuses to accept electoral defeat.

Impeachment is an easy choice because, without it, Trump and all future presidents will be tyrants.

Ready or not, our Democratic leadership needs to treat the American people as responsible citizens and adults. Adults understand and accept that, in some situations, all available options offer unpleasant outcomes. Sometimes doing the right thing is uncomfortable and dangerous. This is one of those times.

[H2O Man]

30. Very good!

I think the Democrats should keep one of the teachings of Malcolm X in mind. He said that if you place a sparkling clean glass of cold water next to a filthy glass of sludge, you can trust a thirsty person to make the correct choice. Trump is filthy sludge. That needs to be laid out in an organized manner in front of the public, with confidence they will make the right choice.

[spanone]

15. Yes H2O Man.

Recommended

[H2O Man]

31. Thank you!

[coeur_de_lion]

16. Are we dead?

I can’t believe a nation can die so easily because of one orange asshole.

[H2O Man]

32. No.

We are just getting warmed up. Keep in mind the image of Smokin' Joe Frazier. It took him a round or two to get warmed up and really start smoking his opponent.

[coeur_de_lion]

37. Good analogy

Hope you’re right.

Everyone is starting to figure out what we’ve Known for years.

Trump is a national security risk.

[dalton99a]

19. Kick

[H2O Man]

33. Thank you!

[BeyondGeography]

28. Be well, Water Man

Thanks for the post.

[H2O Man]

34. Thanks!

Being of limited intelligence, I way overdid it on yard work yesterday. I can barely walk today! So there is a very real risk of my saturating DU:GD today! (grin)

[BeyondGeography]

35. Great weather for that here in upstate NY

I am going to try not to hit myself with an axe today. There’s a wood pile that needs to be downsized.

[H2O Man]

36. I'm gathering apples.

I took my dog on a walk to check the old apple tree. Best year ever!

[Kid Berwyn]

39. GOP can't win fair and square.

Putin took advantage of that fact and now the nation is under the thrall of a dimwitted traitor, who will descend to any depth to maintain power.

Another year of stacking the courts — and the Pentagon and Intelligence Community — with toadies won’t make victory in 2020 any easier, if at all possible.

We may not have the House in 2021. Better to fight them NOW with what we have.

[H2O Man]

40. Exactly!

I am reminded of watching trainers wrap their fighters' hands at the Golden Gloves for the past three years. There is one fellow who consistently uses materials that violate the national rules in amateur boxing. One could safely conclude they are not confident the fighter could not win without cheating.

I've turned them in, in both of the past two years. The commission addressed it in one round of last year's tourament, but didn't check this year. And it happened again. That's why I think commissions and others, such as Congress, need to take a more pro-active stance.