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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNew York Times debunks Trump and their own reporter's claims within 48 hours.
And heres the New York Times within 48 hours after Ken Vogels interview:
No evidence has surfaced to support Mr. Trumps claim that the former vice president intentionally tried to help his son by pressing for the prosecutor generals dismissal.
Link to tweet
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This is a very useful thread by an expert on Ukraine and corruption. It seems notable that the people who know the most about Ukraine are the most adamant that this Hunter Biden story is bogus.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175203002870849536.html
Link to tweet
blm
(113,052 posts)karynnj
(59,503 posts)The current NYT view that JOE BIDEN did nothing questionable does not contradict what Vogel actually said. However, his saying that Hunter's role could be a liability and implying that Hunter Biden's role gave Joe Biden a conflict of interest are then read and tweeted as Joe Biden having done something unethical. As every fact checker has said, nothing Biden or the Obama administration did was a consequence of Hunter Biden's position.
Joe Biden, like many many previous Presidents and candidates, has a relative who has far lower standards than he does. Even the most ethical President we had for decades, Jimmy Carter, had Billy Carter as a brother.
However, with Trump - HE is the most unethical, amoral, dishonest person to ever be President.
Part of what is happening here - as in 2016 - is that the NYT and other media are investigating both parties and are writing stories on what they found. If this were the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, this would be exactly what is needed as investigative journalism. However, it creates the view that BOTH sides are corrupt -- and for those without time to read the full articles, they are seen as equally corrupt. Add to this that the right labels all mainstream sources as partisan and biased against them. For them, this renders anything against Trump and other Republicans just noise.
Here, what might be needed is papers, like the NYT, to put accusations in perspective. Here, early in the article, they should have stated that JOE Biden did nothing wrong ... and Hunter Biden has not been proven to have done anything other than to accept a very lucrative position that created the APPEARANCE of conflict of interest. More likely, this was actually something I don't know the word for and which I doubt is illegal - he may have used the perception in Ukraine that he was close to the administration to get that position. I wish he would have been pushed not to put the Obama's administration's reputation at risk, but as a private citizen, he was not under any of the laws, guidelines etc.
I can't imagine how this feels to Joe Biden. His integrity, that I don't think was ever questioned over his long career, is being challenged. Beyond that, the emphasis is on his already troubled son. I remember reading that his family knew they would be attacked. Their decision to support Joe says a huge amount. They saw the level the Republicans in every election since 2004 have sunk to. Their willingness to endure this shows their faith in Biden's ability to be a good President and their love for him.
blm
(113,052 posts)It pretty well explained Hunters path, and it fell short of anything illegal by Joe Biden. But, when did GOP ever care about that....they attack and investigate Dems for just an appearance of impropriety. They are despicable creatures who lie as easily as they breathe.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/08/will-hunter-biden-jeopardize-his-fathers-campaign
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)Trump has even called for Obama to be investigated for a book he's written after he was no longer President.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)This seems to be the whole point.. Doesn;t matter the facts, just put some shit out there and there are enough ignorant, lazy people out there to possibly sink Biden... or at least cause him trouble...
empedocles
(15,751 posts)contradicts himself and refuses to admit mistakes.
pandr32
(11,581 posts)...and failing. As far as he goes he thinks admitting a mistake is akin to being weak.
comradebillyboy
(10,144 posts)as dishonest as Fox but the Times is hardly a bastion of integrity.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Mike 03
(16,616 posts)Nicole Wallace usually has sound judgment; I don't even understand why she had Vogel on to discuss this.
oregonjen
(3,336 posts)Polly Hennessey
(6,794 posts)Dont think she asked him any more questions after what he said. She ignored him.
malaise
(268,976 posts)She is a loyal Bushie
I have been watching her show regularly so watched that interview live, in horror. If she ever has him on again, I am done with her.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Still feeling some de ja vu here re: HRC
comradebillyboy
(10,144 posts)spooky3
(34,444 posts)In other times, this would be big trouble for the reporter.
paleotn
(17,912 posts)immediately fire the rogue reporters. No, I'm serious. On Monday morning, make them clean out their desks and get the hell out. NYTs has more than enough factual reporters to cover for them.
Indykatie
(3,696 posts)Miguelito Loveless
(4,465 posts)The NYT continues to undermine democracy and serve its masters on the Right.
Wounded Bear
(58,648 posts)That folksy aphorism has never been more true in the age of the internet. It's why Trump likes Twitter. He can get his lies out there, and the "corrections" like the NYT put out above largely get ignored. Truth and facts take time to investigate and sink in. Tweets go out and are re-tweeted and literally millions of people will hear of them long before legitimate reporting can catch up.
Healthy skepticism fails when people approach this shit with religious fervor.
AJT
(5,240 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)That is damning, as is leaving it out there for 2 days before deciding the lie exposure benefit versus the condemnation received cost was optimal.
The AP hung much tougher when they left a blatant lie about Hillary, widely debunked the hour it came out, blanketing the nation for either 10 or 14 days.
UTUSN
(70,686 posts)I've been sending them the Bloomberg article of May 16 debunking in detail and others to preempt them.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)The reference back to Vogels May article is hyperlinked with the text: no evidence
Seems a not so subtle dig st their own reporter.
BigmanPigman
(51,590 posts)She is saying that the NY Times is doing the same thing that they did in 2016 and the emails. Their headlines are doing bothsidesism. Not only that but the story is false and Vogel screwed up. Why is the Times not learning their lesson?
She even mentioned the Uranium One story. This is worse than 2016 (Hillary wrote that it is the same as 2016).
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)Misinformation spreads like wildfire. It doesn't matter if they correct it, the distortion is already out there. How about improving the standards of your newsroom NYT? Seems as if your journalist had no problems misrepresenting the facts.
UpInArms
(51,282 posts)I refuse to support their damaging lies (first Judith Miller and now, Ken Vogel) ever again
I told them exactly that