General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTed Lieu: we should use INHERENT CONTEMPT .... (ie Congress should lock up witnesses in contempt)
Link to tweet
lindysalsagal
(20,444 posts)because, otherwise it makes no sense to say that the congress doesn't know about this whistle blower, when it's been on the news for days.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Judging from all available evidence, Democrats are working hard to keep their powder dry until the day they lose their House majority, whereupon they'll once again have an excuse for the impotent compliance.
If this presidential term ends without the House initiating impeachment, then history will rightly record the Pelosi House as in full agreement with everything Trump has done.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)malaise
(267,827 posts)Get thee to the greatest page
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)(Normally I dont quote the Hill but this columnist is a legitimate one.)
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/405015-congress-should-invoke-revised-inherent-contempt-procedure-in-doj
The Supreme Court has also ruled repeate
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I just don't detention is feasible under the circumstances. Fines are much more logic and effective.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,273 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Much easier than trying to storm DOJ or Treasury in order to try to take them into custody.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,273 posts)Would that involve the judiciary? Or can Congress enforce the fine?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And it would likely move much quicker since once Congress has a valid order, it can take that order straight to a bank or county tax auditor's office to execute it. The witness, of course can try to fight it, but it's much harder to fight executing on a fine than a detention.
mcar
(42,210 posts)those who are ignoring subpoenas.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,041 posts)dalton99a
(81,073 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)So what he is talking abuts assessing daily fines.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)When asked where Congress would put members of the Trump administration, Connolly pointed to DCs jail.
We have, as you know, jurisdiction over the District of Columbia, he said. And they have a beautiful jail with plenty of room. So I think that would be just perfect for some of these people to contemplate their actions and judgment.
Mr.Bill
(24,104 posts)maybe we could start sending them to GITMO.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)So it should be fine to waterboard a few of the Trumpers, right? Just ask John Yoo
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)controls the DC local courts.
https://wamu.org/story/19/09/19/d-c-statehood-is-back-on-the-table-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-its-push-to-become-the-51st-state/
But there is one other element of the court system that does have a connection to statehood: D.C. is the only jurisdiction where a U.S. attorney appointed by the president prosecutes local, in addition to federal, crimes.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)And the DC Council.
And DC would LOVE to imprison a Trumper handed over by Congress for inherent contempt.
LOVE.
The US atty in DC (Jessie Liu, a horrible person and Republican traitor to America) is indeed a federal employee.
But the DC jail is not controlled by the Fed govt but by the District of Columbia.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Magoo48
(4,659 posts)Democrats and the American people take another kick of sand to the face. How many is that now? Perhaps 50? Patience? Right?
usaf-vet
(6,094 posts)If that form of detention is good enough for kids. I say it a fitting solution for spoiled arrogant congressional/administrative brats.
A night of two sleeping on the floor with minimal bedding. Should start to adjust attitudes.
Showers every third day and communal toilets should further the attitude adjustments.
Let's give it a try.
mjvpi
(1,384 posts)Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)Duppers
(28,094 posts)yaesu
(8,020 posts)Hearse.
bottomofthehill
(8,261 posts)Unban legend, and it it the catafalque ( not Hearse) that all Presidents who have Laid in State have rested ok in the Rotunda since President Lincoln. There are Iron gates protecting it so people have decided it was the jail. It could be used as a jail, but there are many better spaces, including the jail cells in USCP headquarters.
triron
(21,916 posts)This administration will continue to just give the finger otherwise.
ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)I didn't count, but they seem to be 49:1 in favor of doing more than writing letters.
triron
(21,916 posts)shanti
(21,672 posts)He really is the one that's keeping this shite going. He and McConnell, that is.
onetexan
(12,994 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)You could take a wing on the second floor at a Courtyard hotel and with control of the doors have an excellent facility.
The much greater problem is having personnel skilled in arrest and guarding.
My memory is that it has to be done under the Sgt of Arms whose office is more ceremonial now.
They will have to hire professional law enforcement officers and establish SOP, more difficult than arranging a temporary facility.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)I get your point, and just note that these issues have to be worked out but there are answers.
triron
(21,916 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Municipal or district officers will not have jurisdiction.
mjvpi
(1,384 posts)I think that fact alone would make a strong statement. Carry a big stick.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Can he simply do it? Does the committee have to vote?
I would sure love to see this.
SevenGensinSC
(1 post)First Post here is a link. There are tons and tons of opinions about what the Congress can and cannot do to enforce its subpoenas. There is a great analysis done in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review done in the past that should be a must-read for all interested in the pursuit of the truth and holding accountable the current Regime. Let me give you a heads-up on my opinion of what this says: The Congress by the authority of a Writ from the Speaker can commit to prison any one cited for contempt until they remove the source of the contempt. Once in jail, and there is no legal intervention possible at all to prevent jailing, then and only then, can a court challenge be brought for release, such as habeas corpus, while the one committed under the Speaker's Writ remains in prison.
https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=8117&context=penn_law_review
See if you agree with this that a contempt citation and a Speaker's Writ is all Nancy needs to do to bring the subpoena refusers to account.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I provided another link below to a Congressional Report regarding Inherent Contempt. With both of these, its probably more than well ever need on the subject. Thanks.
Duppers
(28,094 posts)Kablooie
(18,572 posts)The Democrats seem terrified that they will appear to be bullies if they use any truly coercive methods against the Trump administration.
Trump can engage openly in criminal activities and the Democrats simply send protests to the judiciary where they disappear. First it will take years to adjudicate and with Trump's lacky, Barr, heading it up they are likely to be buried anyway.
I wish they would grow some balls and attack!
They always follow the most timid procedure which allows Trump to run in circles around.
I consider Democrats jointly culpable for Trump's destruction of the nation because they are scared to really stand up to him.
I expect the Dem candidate to lose if nothing serious is done.
It's not going to be about who gets the votes.
It will be about who has manipulated, cheated and rigged the election the most.
Trump will do every illegal thing his minions can conceive to ensure that there is no chance for the Dem to win.
And because of the electoral college they only have to concentrate on a few state elections to guarantee Trump a minimum of 4 more years.
It's scary.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,154 posts)Their next election slogan "SHOULDA COULDA WOULDA"
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)Excerpt from Page 13 of 90 of the Report:Congresss Contempt Power and the Enforcement of Congressional Subpoenas: Law, History, Practice, and Procedure
Inherent Contempt Proceedings by Committees of Congress
As has been indicated, although the majority of the inherent contempt actions by both the House and the Senate were conducted via trial at the bar of the full body, there is historical evidence to support the notion that this is not the exclusive procedure by which such proceeding can occur. This history, when combined with a 1992 Supreme Court decision addressing the power of Congress to make its own rules for the conduct of impeachment trials,96 strongly suggests that the inherent contempt process can be supported and facilitated by the conduct of evidentiary proceedings and the development of recommendations at the committee level.
And, Page 34:
Enforcement of a Criminal or Inherent Contempt Resolution Against an Executive Branch Official
Although the DOJ appears to have acknowledged that properly authorized procedures for seeking civil enforcement provide the preferred method of enforcing a subpoena directed against an executive branch official,260 the executive branch has consistently taken the position that Congress cannot, as a matter of statutory or constitutional law, invoke either its inherent contempt authority or the criminal contempt of Congress procedures261 against an executive branch official acting on instructions by the President to assert executive privilege in response to a congressional subpoena. Under such circumstances, the Attorney General has previously directed the U.S. Attorney to refrain from pursuing a criminal contempt prosecution under 2 U.S.C. §§192, 194.262 This view is most fully articulated in two opinions by the DOJs Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) from the mid-1980s,263 and further evidenced by actions taken by the DOJ in the Burford, Miers, and Holder disputes, discussed below.264 As a result, when an executive branch official is invoking executive privilege at the behest of the President, the criminal contempt provision may prove ineffective, forcing Congress to rely on other avenues to enforce subpoenas, including civil enforcement through the federal courts.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL34097
I dont think Lewandowski was an Executive Branch Official. I dont know how binding the report is, but it covers a lot of whats been going on. Lotsa case law and legalese.
The Wielding Truth
(11,411 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,279 posts)Orrex
(63,086 posts)Nothing is more important than dry powder.
triron
(21,916 posts)SMC22307
(8,088 posts)just fucking do it!
Duppers
(28,094 posts)triron
(21,916 posts)onenote
(42,383 posts)The entire House would, in effect, have to hold a proceeding to determine whether the person was guilty of contempt. In the meantime, that person would have his/her lawyers filing a petition for habeas corpus almost immediately after the "arrest". In the end, it is highly unlikely that anyone would be held for very long and that person would be hailed as the victim of overreach by the House Democrats the moment he/she is released pending the trial (if one is even allowed to take place).
From the CRS study of inherent contempt: "The pattern was thereby established of attachment by the Sergeant-at-Arms; appearance before the bar; provision for specification of charges, identification of the accuser, compulsory process, counsel, and a hearing; determination of guilt; imposition of penalty."
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)From jail.
Youre right about the trial