A weekend with Conservative parents

[kwolf68]

So I visited them for about 4 days and learned a lot. Overall it was a wonderful time, some real quality time talking about the old days and enjoying time with them, but of course I could not avoid it morphing into a Trump rally now and then. I figured I'd share some of their excellent, well thought out arguments. I am sure after seeing these most will log off of DU and become Republican. Mind you there was plenty more and much of this is paraphrased, but this stuff really stands out. It really makes me sad honestly.

Step-Father: "I love AOC she's so hilarious because everything she says is so stupid it just makes me laugh"
Me: "Hmmm. I don't know much about her, but what has she said that was so stupid?"
S-F: Everything

Step-Father talking about multicultural barbies: It was just idle bitching and moaning that barbie would make barbies of different ethnicity
Me: Well it's certainly not one of my main issues, but not sure I see a problem telling women of different colors, races, religions, etc. that they too are beautiful. I know you see this as the "Liberalization" of America, but I just can't see why this is bad
Step-Father: Not everyone can be blonde
Me: That's kinda my point. Who declared blonde as prettier?
Step-Father: The fact men are attracted to blondes

Step-Father: The Electoral College is a great thing, it makes sure the tyranny of the majority does not take place
Me: Yea kinda funny it came out of catering to the slaves states
Step-Father: What are you talking about
Me: Ever hear of the 3/5 compromise?

Step-Father: Rabid lecture on health care, ending with "they will take away your insurance"
Me: Fucking good. What I and dare I say most Americans really want is health care.


Mother: "I don't like the way he can be an asshole, but Trump has done more for this country than any President"
Me: "Like What"
Mother: "What did Obama do?"

Mother: "What do you think of Warren?"
Me: "Well she's not Trump for one and I really love the fact she's talking about corruption and the influence of money in politics"
Mother: "She doesn't have the experience"
Me: So what kind of experience did Trump have
Mother: "I don't want to talk about it:

Mother: "Democrats are just spend thrifts"
Me: Actually mom the federal deficit went down under Obama and has increased under Trump
Mother: I do not believe that. Where are you getting your facts?
Me: cranking to non partisan website to show her the facts
Mother: I don't want to talk about it

Mother: It's all racists here in Virginia, black racists and they want to take down the Civil War monuments
Me: Well for starters mom I could give a shit about statues, but where are these statues located
Mother: Richmond
Me: You don't live there why do you care? Perhaps the people of Richmond would like them moved
Mother: It's getting rid of history
Me: No it's not, it's getting rid of statues
Mother: There are a lot of people who oppose it
Me: You mean Conservatives in the outlying counties surrounding Richmond
Mother: yes
Me: So you guys in the country want to tell people in the big city how to live?
Mother: Lets drop it
Me: Why don't you counties ban together, raise some taxes and buy the monuments, and stick them in a museum? I am sure Richmond will give you a good deal.
Mother: Just drop it

At dinner, we had a black waitress
Mother: Where is our bread I bet if we were the right color we'd get served
Me: Looking around. Mom I think they are understaffed every time I see her she's working really hard

Other notables:

I am not racist at all, at church every time I see Person A (who is black) I give her a hug.

Talking about how she's a good teacher at bible study, my mom says, "the kids really love me I even had a black boy sit up in my lap". My response was, "why are you telling me he was black?"

In a rare moment of clarity mom mentions the segregation of the south, remembering how black people could not sit with white people, she genuinely did not like this, but then fucks it all up by saying, "but today, the blacks blame everything on racism"
Me: Is it possible blacks have been discriminated against even today?
Mom: Yes, but it's rare, it's like always yelling police brutality.
Me: You do realize unarmed black men have been murdered by cops don't you?
Mom: That's ridiculous, these people are criminals
Me: How do you know they were criminals? Even if they were criminals do you support shooting unarmed victims who have their hands up?
Mom: Oh come on
Me: Mom, it's on VIDEO, or do you propose now that I am exposing your nonsense for us to drop it?
Mom: Yes lets drop it.
Me: So you do not wish to see the videos of unarmed black men being gunned down?
Mom: No I don't want to see
Me: Then can you please never ever state anything about police attacks on black people until you're at least willing to see the other side
Mom: I am able to see all sides
Me: Then please explain to be ONE SINGLE Liberal perspective, your choice. You may not agree with it, but just explain to me what Liberals want to accomplish with any issue of your choice.
TOTAL Silence, She never could come up with any

My parents are pretty much gone. I hope to survive Christmas and have asked my wife to avoid politics at all costs.

[Pluvious]

1. Thanks for sharing

I've found it does help

These are such trying times, but there have been so many like this in times past.

I'm just now about to post this piece:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-20/ibm-nazi-germany-tech-racism-father

Be well.

[kwolf68]

4. Thanks friend

The absolute lack of intellectual curiosity is what is most scary. They are late 70s now, doubt they change their minds, but it sad they don't even engage on any level approaching rational discourse.

My wife wants to prod. My wife's parents are frustrating her as well, but not nearly as political. We think her mother is a closet Liberal, but her dad is "old school" Republican, in that he distrusts big business, wants to protect the environment, and is very at ease and open minded with our gay friends, but also said "I raised you wrong" when my wife said she loved Senator Warren.

She wants to put Warren sign in our yard and put Michelle Obama's book on our coffee table. I am trying to keep her from not doing either as I just want to avoid political shit during the Holidays.

[calimary]

44. Nonstop 24/7/365 hate radio since the mid-80s helped nail that down.

The detestable limbaugh even gave them permission to dumb down.

I swear I heard him saying it on the radio, with my own ears: “you don’t even have to think. IIIII’LL do the thinking FOOOOORRRRRR you!”

I remember gaping at the radio in disbelief, and thinking “the HELL you will, asshole!”

A+ for effort and initiative, kwolf68! You stuck with it on every subject in til THEY gave up!

[Ahpook]

59. Yes

And that, right there sucks them in!

On edit: It is easy to let these things go. When you accept problems that affect you, it is time to do something about it.

This is extremely sad to watch

[pangaia]

69. "...don't even engage on any level approaching rational discourse.'

Question, do you think they EVER did, or is this something more recent ?

Because that kind of 'non'thinking' is very often a way to hide from what one knows is true in the world and what is true about oneself...

[mountain grammy]

36. Fascinating. Great article..thanks for posting.

[maxsolomon]

2. Ah, it resonates. You kept at it though; you're stronger than me.

Last visit home, I asked my 83-year old Dad for one example of Antifa violence after he brought up "Leftist Violence". He came up with Andy Ngo getting a milkshake throw at him (widely hyped on Fox). I countered with the Portland Max Train Proud Boy MURDERS to say the violence wasn't equivalent, instantly called up video, wiki, etc. He wouldn't look, wouldn't accept what I said, admitted he didn't believe me.

I'm not a 20 year old campus radical, either; I'm fucking 55.

Conservative's stupid beliefs run into a wall at the very 1st question you put to them. It's what I preach to our fellow Librulz at every chance: don't harangue, ask them to explain it to you. They literally cannot.

[kwolf68]

6. Yep you got it.

I tried to tell my wife this is how we handle them, should politics come up simply ask inquisitive questions. And as you state, they just can't explain it.

I really believe this is "AM Radio mentality" where the Conservative mind is all transmit and no receive. On top of that is a healthy dose of blind faith. Even if presented with facts that counter their narrative, they either question the validity of the facts or simply abstain from hearing them.

It's mentally retarding on every level. Only thing I can hope for is a few of my points settle in their brain. But I kinda doubt it, I have a science background and NOT ONE TIME have their ever asked me about a science issue (such as climate change). Her their educated son with a background and passion for environmental issues and they DO NOT even care to engage me to possibly learn something. It's a joke.

[maxsolomon]

16. All of his children are Liberals, and every Grandchild is a fire-breathing Environmentalist.

I have never been able to extract how he feels about this.

And the ironic thing is that he and my departed Mom are responsible for our beliefs! John Denver records, Guitar Mass, camping trips, public magnet schools with racial and sexual diversity; what did they think was going to happen?

In fact, they're the ones that changed, from Democratic to Republic, in 1980.

[pangaia]

71. "believe in".. this is the disease....

[customerserviceguy]

3. They sound like Foxaholics. n/t

[Vinca]

5. OMG - my sole surviving non-spouse relative is a lefty. I'm sooooooo lucky.

[kwolf68]

8. My wife is also lefty...

She's probably a bit more Liberal than I am. Though we do sing a lot of the same songs.

[UniteFightBack]

7. Even though they have some fucked up thinking...I'll bet they are still......

good people.

[kwolf68]

9. Haha great comment

They are. But their politics does test me. My wife is really frustrated because my wife really can't stand selfish people and she thinks both our parents are selfish. On a local level they are not, they do donate to charities, they have given us money, they paid my way through grad school even though I was a working adult. But as far as the greater society they really don't seem to care much.

[virgogal]

11. They sound like very decent people to me....as

Tip O’Neill said , all politics is local and your folks seem to be doing a good job there. No one is perfect.

[Boomer]

24. Us vs. Them tribalism

So many conservatives are good to people they perceive to be part of "us" and harsh in their view of "them." And they draw the circle of "us" pretty tightly.

I think one of the biggest differences is that Liberals tend to draw a wider circle of who is worthy of compassion and generosity. It includes family, friends, local community AND outer circles, sometimes extending to the entire human race. We see kinship where conservatives only see "other."

[Blue_true]

50. Brilliant synopsis. nt

[Mopar151]

73. Tribalisim, extended by (anti)science.

If they were to suddenly change their views on climate science, their entire world would invert! Because it would mean that those trusted sources could be full of shit about everything else......

[Ohiogal]

10. Wow! Thanks for your excellent post.

You wrote so well, and I recognized many of the stupid things I have heard from my conservative relatives through the years, many of which have since passed away.

Re AOC: "We laugh at her, she's so stupid. If this is what represents our future generations, God help us."

Another one I recognized: "We'd get better service, but we're the wrong color." And people who say this claim to be good Christians. I could hear my sis saying this. Yet she has a "black friend" and she attends Catholic mass every Sunday.

And: "Why do black people make everything about race? Any time they don't get their way, it's "Because I'm Black"! Maybe because it usually IS about race???

And, often, "Democrats just want to tax us working people to death so they can give it all away to lazy people who don't want to work." I hear this one A LOT. And you know who they mean by "lazy people who don't want to work."

Also lots of bitching about how everything has to be "politically correct."

And "I HATE that phrase "for the common good'!"

I feel your pain, kwolf68. Shallow thinking, closed minds, belief in white supremacy, etc. They just don't get it. You did well to put up with that for a whole weekend and not go crazy!

[lunatica]

12. Opinion is equal to facts.

[Moral Compass]

13. Many of us can relate...

I remember the arguments with my parents and my paternal grandmother over race.

It didn’t go well. It never went well. Alcohol didn’t help.

It got ugly. The arguments were circular and based on nothing but raw emotion. Nobody would ever admit to being a racist.

And this was before Fox.

Still I miss them all.

[kwolf68]

15. Yea

Thing is my mother came from North Carolina farmers with no education.

Those grandparents are gone now, but where was THIS wisdom:

I asked my grandmom about gay people:

Her response? "They are God's children and I love them the same, It's not for me to judge"

That was IT. If an 8th grade dropout, bible toating southern farm girl can have that kind of perspective why can't her daughter?

Oh well, glad my mom is doing well overall.

[gratuitous]

14. Sounds like you did a good job

There's no telling if you planted any seeds this weekend, and what sort of soil those seeds may have fallen on. An open-ended question might get their brains engaged, and start a thought process that may lead them out of their intellectual wilderness. I think it's better to do that than just yell "GODDAM YOU'RE SUCH AN IGNORANT MOFO!" as satisfying as that can be, sometimes.

[kwolf68]

17. Exactly

Yelling and confrontation never works.

And thing is they made general statements that were Liberal in nature. They have concerns about pollution, the quality of our food, are we being lied to by corporations and their products.

I never had the heart to say, "Mom, that pollution that worries you is being exacerbated by Trump". Maybe one day she'll really ask what I think.

[MikeIsInProcess]

34. Accentuate the positive

This is similar to conversations I have with my mom. Her values definitely lean liberal, yet she is unable to see which party stands for what. These are some of the things I do, often:

If you have issues in common, you talk about those issues and emphasize how much you agree, and then ask:

“Considering how much —>we both<—- want to save the environment, which party is moving in that direction? For example, when vehicle emissions were recently reversed, and stronger emissions standards in California are being fought, and tariffs on solar panels were recently increased, which party did something about this issue and which one is making it worse?”

You can do the same thing on health care, guns, etc.

Notice, I’m not telling. I’m asking. It’s not “that pollution that worries you is being exacerbated” etc. That gives people something to push again. It’s a question (albeit loaded, just look at the tense change) that she can answer herself.

I also very much emphasize those similar values, constantly. It completely reframes the entire chat. There is no clash of values going on in that case, which would cause her to shut down (as your mom did many times). What there is instead is an agreement where BOTH people have good values but one votes for a party who doesn’t share those values. One problem is massive, the other is relatively minor and the talk is based mainly on agreement.

As far as historical things like segregation, you can emphasize consistency of values. For example, I will say I’m a liberal so I oppose too much inequality and dominance of some people over others, that violates freedom. So I’m opposed to the conservative (NOT “Republican”) idea that one race ought to be able to dominate others and own people of another race and steal their labor, and I’m opposed to the conservative idea of one race dominating another through rigging the vote and keeping one race in separate schools and water fountains, and I’m opposed to the conservative idea that men should dominate women and not give women the right to vote or own property, and so on. (Conservatism is anti-egalitarianism. That is its most consistent feature. Trump is no exception.)

My mom will agree with me but will often say that “this is not the party doing that” when of course it is the party. Eventually the evidence may become overwhelming. (Or not.) I often emphasize that even if it’s not the entire party doing these things, they are still enablers and their silence is deafening.

The end result is that my mom “gets a kick out of our conversations”. So I may be yelling, and I might be expressing confrontation against the GOP, but it is never (or at least very seldom) aimed directly at HER.

Of course that is part of my larger message that HER VALUES (on which we largely agree) are NOT Republican values.

[Jim__]

18. It sounds like you are able to keep your sense of humor.

That's no small accomplishment in today's environment.

[lostnfound]

19. Bless you for loving them anyway.

When civil war breaks out because some of the armed trump maniacs have been lured into violence by anonymous forces on social media, such patient love might be the only thing that saves the country.

[struggle4progress]

20. ...

[elleng]

21. Thanks for putting up with it,

and engaging them in what might be an educational experience.

[madamesilverspurs]

22. Sadly familiar conversation.

My parents are gone, but this is typical of attempted conversations with one of my siblings. The rest of us talk and exchange emails on a daily basis. He unfriended me on Facebook, stating that he found my views to be too upsetting; when I asked for examples, he declined to provide any. I'll always love him, but none of us miss his pontificating at family gatherings.


.

[Oppaloopa]

23. OMG I feel so sorry for you and your family.

I notice that your parents are always the ones to bring it up, mainly your Mother.

[Pepsidog]

25. I was with my brother in law at righty nut. No facts they just say "fake news". You can't argue with

that kind of dumb. It’s scary there are so many out there like that. Fake news and Obama and Hillary ruined the country. I wish I had a time machine to send them back to 2007 as the world was in crisis.

[Baked Potato]

26. I have smiled at Trumpers and say:

He ain’t like us, you and me.

He don’t have a car payment.

He don’t shop at Walmart.

Most the time they smile back and say something like... well, that’s true.

[Locrian]

27. it's becase it calls their very identity into question...

and that is a terrifying thing. to realize (most wont) that your entire worldview is wrong.

I see it on a similar scale with climate change. Good people, nice people who *do not want to talk about it* or realize how bad it is because it just destroys what they think "normal" life is.

(not to equate the two - but it's a similar mindset of being terrified)

[KY_EnviroGuy]

28. Thanks for sharing. Helps us to have perspective.

The American common dialog must return and has to start somewhere, just as you did. You have planted some seeds of truth.

Someday, perhaps you can remind your mom that people are not criminals until arrested, charged and convicted in a court of law. We are not judges or juries.

KY.........

[yonder]

29. You did well with an impossible task.

I've given up unless engaged, and then, like the poster above suggested, only ask questions.

[volstork]

30. The whole thing in a nutshell:

Me: So what kind of experience did Trump have
Mother: "I don't want to talk about it"

[gopiscrap]

31. I would say fuck Christmas

when my in laws went on and on about how wonderful Reagan was, we didn't go back and see them or phone, talk or write for 12 years. Their first grandchild was 8 years old before they ever saw him and then we only stayed for 45 minutes.

[barbtries]

32. thank you

for challenging her every single time and standing your ground. i have to admit to my shame that when my trumpster sister insists she isn't a racist i just end the conversation. we steer clear of politics and i have already gone off on her before, and now she is in the early stages of alzheimers plus dealing with a terrible domestic situation. i can't change her mind. but seeing how you kept it up with your parents makes me feel cowardly.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. I was wondering if you were my SIL or BIL until

You said Virginia. I did the same thing..stayed with right-wing parents-in-law all weekend in TX.

So many threads are f what you said the same ! Trump has done an excellent job at making people THINK he's done a lot..but all BS. In NYC, they say he was the best self promoter ever.

My niece from Idaho was there. Yikes. She was a poly science major at Orel Roberts for a while. But .she said the thing she doesn't like about trump is that he has done TOO much on gun controls! I was shocked. I said " are you sure? Like what? She said her friend told her.

[onlyadream]

35. Wow - this could be me and my mom

I gave up when she plugged her ears and said, "La la la la."
I realized then that she just wanted to hear her own side. It's so sad.

[3catwoman3]

37. That sounds like a...

...lo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-ong 4 days.

[blm]

38. Tyranny of the minority is OK with Republicans

[Katinfl]

39. Good for you.....

I am not sure I could have kept my cool. There comes a time when you just have to throw up your hands and give up. Guess I am lucky because politics is just not discussed with family......I know where they stand, they know where I stand and we don’t go there. Talk about burying your head in the sand..........

[Initech]

40. Too much Fox News rots your brain and poisons your mind.

[mtngirl47]

41. This sounds like my life!

Since Bush 2 was appointed president we have all agreed not to discuss politics.

When I'm at their house they have to go cold turkey off of Fox, and I don't turn on CNN or MSNBC when they're visiting me!

Like your situation my Mom seems to make leading statements---like she wants to engage in a conversation. So I try to talk about whatever subject -- but when I try to introduce facts it all devolves from there because nothing that I say or show her can be true if it conflicts with her belief.

I'm just so sad because they get so angry and scared about the world as they know it from Fox.

Sad because I recommended they watch Ken Burns' Country Music documentary on PBS...but they stopped watching it because "he kept talking about how black music contributed to country music."

Some days I can't call them when Trump does something egregious. I just want to scream at them for foisting this man on our country and the world. But, my folks are in their 80's and I'm in my 60's.....every day is precious, so I will continue to see them and spend time with them.

[Desert_Leslie]

43. "appointed president" - True!

[Desert_Leslie]

42. Oh, yeah. Been there.

My mother-in-law's 99th birthday dinner last week.

Brother-in-law -- who is a rabid Fox/Trumper -- brings up the Iran situation, referring to Middle Eastern people as "sand ni---rs"

>> Sorry, DU'ers. I have little experience in typing down that hideous word in such a way as to show what it is without actually writing the entire word. <<

It took all the willpower and self control that I possess to not scream at him.

THEN he brings up gun control. Very surprisingly, both he and his wife (another Trumper) say they are for universal background checks and red-flag warnings. But then they start in on Beto ....

So the idea/concept isn't bad ... but if a DEMOCRAT says it ... then it's bad.

I'm waiting and marshaling my facts. One of these days I'm going to say, "Do you really want to discuss this? Not the people but the policies?"

I need Valium. <sigh.>

[Karadeniz]

45. When is the Nobel peace prize given?

[DeminPennswoods]

46. Your step father is a lost cause, but I can

see hope for your mom.

[kwolf68]

51. Interesting take

Thanks. Seems this thread really blew up

[DeminPennswoods]

68. During a stint as a

judge of elections back in the early 2000s, I was amazed at the number of wives who either asked their husbands how they should vote or whose husbands told them how to vote. Most of them were older couples - Greatest/Silent Generation members. Don't know how old your mom is, but there are women who are not comfortable openly opposing their husbands' political views. Your step-father sounds like the domineering type who could be intimidating your mom.

You should take your mom out to lunch, just the two of you and see what she says, which, of course, will stay your little secret.

[LuckyLib]

47. My 96 year old mother went along with my Republican father

for years. The Vietnam War and Kent State turned her around. She up on current events, and says she’s not leaving this planet until Trump is gone.

[Evolve Dammit]

48. Good luck at Christmas. This is happening all over the country. My family is gone to me. Fox News.

[Blue_true]

49. Lovely. All else you need is a cigar-chomping uncle who starts every conversation about African

Americans with "You see, the Blacks.....".

[kwolf68]

52. Reminds me of that idiot

Rancher Cliven Bundy who waxed eloquent about "the blacks".

[Blue_true]

56. Yep. Unfortunately, people like him exists among us. nt

[nini]

53. I am so grateful for my parents

They instilled my union backing liberal ways. I miss them so much but can't imagine how pissed they'd be to see the shitshow today.

[TheFarseer]

54. Sounds like my parents

If they get stuck: Democrats are a bunch of immoral baby killers. It trumps any argument I can make.

[live love laugh]

55. Sounds about white nt

[VarryOn]

57. Relationships are the most important things we have in in life...

And while you have some hiccups with your parents, it seems you all repect each other.

[kwolf68]

58. Yes

Honestly I think they are scared to challenge their own views.

I have a background in science and interestingly enough not one time did they care to comment or gauge my thoughts on such matters. Perhaps they don't care about those issues, but they know I do, and they know I may have something to contribute. But they abstain.

But yes overall the relationship is very good.

[VarryOn]

60. I have a dear friend with whom I dont agree with on politics....

Initially, it was quite difficult, but we mutually agreed to just avoid politics. It wasnt easy for me, but in the end, I just had to compromise. Politics arent as big a deal for him, so he gave up less than I did. Amd I certainly have up more than he did. I had to get OK with it, and I eventually did.

I dont recommend it for everyone, but I'm grateful for his friendship.

[LittleGirl]

61. That's interesting.

My mother thankfully is liberal and my father has been gone for 44 yrs so I don't know what way he voted.

These conversations sound like the ones I have with my sister and brother and we can't discuss politics at all. They are as far right as I'm far left.

I blame it all on Fox spews and Rush listening every damn day.
I went to my brother's house one day and he had Rush on the radio and I asked him seriously, How can you listen to him? He shut it off.
My sister lost some life long friends during Obama's years because they couldn't take her hate anymore.
My Mother even stopped talking to my sister for awhile and that just pained her to do that. And my sister was the instigator too. Always bringing up politics.

I saw my sister at an outing a few years ago before IQ45 and hadn't spoken to her in 4 years. The first thing she asked me was How I liked Obama?
I couldn't believe the gall of her to ask such a stupid question. Why not, hey, Little Girl, how are you?

[King_Klonopin]

62. It's so irrational: they marginalize everyone who is not like them

and then hate them even more for 1) being a victim of their bigotry,
2) opposing their abuse of power, and 3) pointing out their hypocrisy.

It is exhausting just to read about interactions like this one.

These people are beyond the influence of reason and truth. Even a few
Republicans who are honest are now referring to their party as a "cult".

I haven't had an opportunity to ask a Trumpeteer, but I would simply ask
one if he/she could identify just one virtue, one example of an ethical tenet,
that this guy exhibits. Answer: he does not have ANY. None. He is pure vice.

[ooky]

63. But it does sound like your Mom found the perfect guy for her.

At least she's happy.

I can identify. My mom was a huge Rush Limbaugh fan. Need I say more?

[NCLefty]

64. So... Archie Bunker, then. I had my mother repeat a Fox News conspiracy theory about Barrack Obama

in front of me when I was visiting them. Allegedly, he was "taking 40 planes to India" or some shit, and spending so much money on expensive hotels for his buddies that it was going to cost more than the Afghanistan war cost us per day. It originated out of an Indian blogger and right wing media just ran with it... all the way to Fox News.

I desperately tried to de-bunk them on the spot with my iPad. I pulled up a CNN video and my dad looked at me like I was an idiot or something. He listens to Rush Limbaugh. Then I literally went into another room and Googled, "help my parents are republican." LOL.

I don't talk to them anymore but there was a lot of family issues when I was younger so this was really just the last straw for me. Two of their 3 kids are gay, I should mention. Republicans would still like to erase us if they had their way.

[Hortensis]

65. :) Kwolfe's family has been tried and has not fallen.

"Overall it was a wonderful time, some real quality time talking about the old days and enjoying time with them."

So nice to read, Kwolfe, and hope others realize it can be done. Add one heaping tablespoon of battlefield humor to love and caring...

They may not be "gone" forever. Leadership and loyalties do always change, after all, and with them what had been loyally committed to. The trumpian right may just eventually be turned back to its genuinely kinder and gentler version, pulling up from the crash-and-burn that ends so many extremist RW regimes. And if so, probably (a lot like talking heads always do after elections prove them wrong) they'll just abandon past groupthink and pivot to current versions.

Whatever, change will continue.

[kaotikross]

66. Absolutely hilarious :)

Been there, done that, now if they want to talk politics I just excuse myself to go smoke.

[study war no more]

67. Are we related?

That's pretty much how it is in my family too. I've stopped trying. In fact, I hate to admit it, but I can't visit much anymore because it's just horrible. Take out the politics and we can have a decent time. But the hate they spew is intolerable. (while they thump their bibles and talk about who devout they are)

[llashram]

70. yep

they sound exactly like a neighbor 2 houses down and his words are sometimes verbatim to some of the comments here by the conservative parents. Truly sad how Fox news has propagandized the some of the American population. In this case normalization of corruption, racism, sexism, and greed by MSM have produced robots spewing the same exact party line.

Very sad indeed.

[TruckFump]

72. So, I assume Faux Snooze is the current event Bible in their house?

I hope you were not subjected to that noise!!!