General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Think Joe Biden has Aspergers Syndrome
At least, I think Joe is as likely to autistic as Mitt Romney. More so, actually. As a way of educating each other on Aspergers syndrome and the autism spectrum, shall we have a look and compare?
(1) Inappropriate comments and bad jokes: As we know, Aspies often make clueless and inappropriate comments and bad jokes. They tend to blurt out exactly what they think without considering (or being aware of) how it will come across. Joe is well known for these. As much if not more so than Romney and his opinion of cookies. Do we all remember Joe's "articulate and clean" comment about Obama? Here is a list of "Bidenisms." I think they give Joe the edge over Romney in this. But Romney certainly has his, so we'll give him a point for that. Joe-2, Romney 1
(2) Joe is big on facts. He gathers them up, and spits them out. The numbers, the dates, the history. My gosh, this man does his research and retains it. VERY Aspie. Romney...hm. I haven't heard any research, numbers or facts from him. If he was a real Aspie, you would't be able to shut him up once he started telling you all he knew about something--anything. He'd be giving you tons of details. So. On that score Joe 3-Romney 1
(3) Hyperfocused. Relating to the above, Aspies are like bulldogs. Once they get their teeth into something it's hard to get them off it. The conversation can drift off elsewhere, but they'll stay on target like a guided missile. Biden is notorious for that--look at how he hammered at the president for gay rights, never letting up. Romney...does he ever stay on point? Joe 4--Romney 1
(4) Honest to a fault. Well. I think we have to give Romney a half-point for the cookie comment and opinion of letting Detroit go bankrupt on this one. But Joe--hell, Joe gets two points on this. He couldn't lie if he tried. Joe 6--Romney 1 1/2
(5) Independent thinking Aspies come up with their own ideas (good, bad and crazy) which, as we see above, they stick to and blurt out. They don't go along with the crowd, often to their detriment (alas, their condition keeps them from seeing the benefit of going along with the crowd rather than keeping to their own ideas). If an Aspie believe in global warming, they're going to argue it till the cows come home (with all those details, facts, research to back 'em up). They'd never switch just to win the election. Let's see, which politician has been hurt by keeping to his own independent ideas (Aspie), and which has benefited by giving up any ideas of his own and going along with the crowd (not Aspie)...? Joe 7--Romney 1 1/2
(6) Personal motivation Aspies certainly aren't above wanting money, but they often do things out of some strange personal motivation. Take Temple Grandin who focused so strongly on cattle and what made them tick. She never thought this would bring her wealth or fame or popularity. She had her own personal motivations. Do I need to point out who seems to have done things to gain wealth, popularity and fame rather than personal motivation that hasn't brought him much of any of those? Joe 8--Romney 1 1/2
6. Eccentricity -- Aspies rarely try to fit in with the crowd. They don't think about it, and their condition often makes them keep to habits and appearances that make them social outsiders. They're likely to wear odd clothing, have odd habits. They also tend to not be very graceful. Hm. Tough call. Joe is certainly eccentric and doesn't care. Mitt doesn't strike me as "normal" either, but he does try to pass--haircut, clothes, etc., all in line. I'll give equal points on this one. Joe 9--Romney 2 1/2
So far, the score is Biden is more likely to be Aspergers than Romney. But wait, there is one more aspect. That lack of empathy thing. You'd think that would put Romney squarely in the "he's Aspergers" camp right? But let's not be so quick on the draw with that....those with Aspergers don't lack empathy. In fact, some research suggests that they empathize too much. Which is why they cut themselves off. Like someone so sensitive to light they must wear dark glasses, or with such sensitivity to music harmonies that they can't listen to anything but classical. I'll tell you this, Temple Gandin who so empathized with cattle that she built slaughterhouses where they'd die painlessly would never, I think, have endured putting a dog on the roof of a car. She'd have researched, observed, and detailed to Romney what canines feel, think, need and how wrong an idea that was.
And while I've seen Aspies do stupid things to people and then wilt as it was pointed out how inappropriate it was to do that, I haven't seen many who egged on their friends to bully others. To the contrary, it's Aspies who usually get bullied for being so different and outside the crowd, for being honest rather than being able to lie, for holding their ground rather than shifting and believing whatever is popular to believe. That kinda negates Romney, the one who bullies outsiders.
So. Do I think Joe Biden is Aspergers? No. He's too gregarious, too much a people person. He meets people's eyes, hugs them easily, and likes being in a crowd. He's not Aspie. But as much as all that is foreign to Mitt Romney, it is common to those rich, entitled and spoilt--and who, like Mitt, have been in positions of power in religious organizations where their word was law--no Aspergers needed. I wrote this all up because I think some people are snapping to conclusions in saying that Romney has Aspergers. Even if they are doing so with some knowledge of autism and the best motives, I feel they are comparing some aspects but not others, and comparing them superficially. My point is to show that it's very easy to peg someone as Aspergers if you only cherry pick certain things and ignore a lot of others.
There are many not-so-admirable autistics in history who have been awful people and done terrible things, and they can and are pointed out, usually by other autistics. But quick, armchair diagnosis's of such in politicians like Romney often lead to misunderstanding of both the politician (if he's not Aspie, then you're making assumptions on wrong information about his motivations, right?), and autistics (i.e. all Aspies are like Mitt Romney. Shall we also say all Mormons are like him?).
I think all of the above prove that whatever bits Mitt may seem to have in common with Aspies, its not only problematic to assume he's Aspergers, but it's spreading misinformation about those with Autism to do so. You've only to watch how he meets people's eyes, calculatingly, unflinchingly, and coldly to know this. That's not something anyone with Aspergers would do...or could do.
sadbear
(4,340 posts)FarPoint
(12,405 posts)Plus, didn't VP Biden have a brain aneurysm repair back in the 80's? I think this is very disrespectful ...especially this close to the election.
dkf
(37,305 posts)The OP is pointing out that it is ridiculous to tag Mitt Romney with aspergers and used Joe Biden to do so. I appreciate the insight into Aspergers.
I can't believe this was alerted on. The sensitivity level is so high that people can't get past the headline to get the point the OP is making.
renie408
(9,854 posts)used to make their point.
See? You did it in one sentence.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)My guess is the first "Alerter" wrote a false "alert" presenting a defense for this OP that it needed to be debunked not hidden. Maybe someone will post the first alert and give us some insight into how 4 Jurors got it so damn wrong.
The OP is disgraceful during election season when DU supposedly has a zero tolerance policy for anti-Obama propaganda.
FarPoint
(12,405 posts)I will follow since we need more data for a 3rd alert. Right???
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Subsequent alerts do not go to jury. However, if you send an alert anyway with TOS checked it does go to the admin.
Only the admin can do anything about this OP.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)I think this OP does a good job illustrating just why such "diagnoses" are offensive and ridiculous, and it does so carefully and deliberately.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm not liking this one in the slightest.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)But I think the OP's point stands, and it's being mostly missed by those compelled to respond here.
MADem
(135,425 posts)was one that was under discussion on a number of other discussion boards and blogs and in articles as well. It wasn't a "let me pull an opinion out of my ass" post--it had a frame of reference.
This post is just a whine in response to the assertion--but at a very safe distance.
Again, an argument in opposition is best offered WITHIN the original subject matter thread.
All this looks like, to me, is a bit of sly voter suppression/demotivation.
I am not amused.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)It has nothing to do with suppression or demotivation. It actually has nothing to do with Joe Biden. If you don't get that, there's no point in trying to convince you, but you're mistaken, completely.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I was born at night, but not last night, and I'm familiar with the TOS here. This stinks.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)to diagnose the other side's candidate. It was offensive. The Biden "diagnosis" is offensive. See how that works? See the point being made here?
MADem
(135,425 posts)first made. Not everyone reads every thread on the entire board, and it is hubris-laden in the EXTREME for a poster to expect people to first, read their mind, and second, know where to find the original thread without so much as a frigging link.
This entire OP is just HORRIBLE netiquette, at a minimum...and it's a lot of other stuff too.
I also think people who fling shit should stand and be prepared to respond to people who object to their nonsense, and not expect surrogates to do their work for them, as you appear to be doing on behalf of the OP.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)DemocratsForProgress is in overdrive defending the OP.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)meaning my opinion differs from that of others, including you. Why don't you tell me what you're really insinuating here? Please feel free.
BTW, I'm not the only one here whose opinion runs counter to the knee-jerk reactions. Are you going to level veiled accusations at them too? Frankly, I don't blame the OP for abandoning the thread. He/she made a point, it's mostly being missed entirely, and a lot of the answers evince the same kind of ugliness I sense in your comment about what you find "interesting".
MADem
(135,425 posts)The OP should have put the point where it belonged--in the original thread on the subject.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)And I don't disagree. Could you find something else we agree on that we can argue about instead?
MADem
(135,425 posts)if they must.
We could agree on that. This thread is a stinker, plain and simple. Accusing people of not reading the OP and "misinterpreting" is pure bullshit. This thread is at best squirrelly, and it causes me to look askance at the motivations of the poster, particularly when he or she can't even bother to turn up and defend the thesis.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)That said, your spirited and repeated defense of the OP throughout this thread makes the supposition not totally out in left field.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)But no, I don't.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I thought this guy had just lost his mind and decided to barf out a novella on the comparative possibilities of Asperger's between Mitt and Joe.
I haven't even found the thread he wrote this thread in response to. And why not just say in THAT thread, "Dude, you can't diagnose people from a distance."??
And wait...isn't that a TOS violation? Isn't there something about not referring to other threads in your thread? Even obliquely?
FarPoint
(12,405 posts)Done...
Quantess
(27,630 posts)At Sat Sep 1, 2012, 11:37 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
I Think Joe Biden has Aspergers Syndrome
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021249372
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
Aspergers is an actual medical condition similar to Autism - which the VP does not have. I expect to see a post like this in freeperland, not at DU.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 1, 2012, 11:46 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm an Aspie. I'm not sure he made his case but I'm not having a problem with this
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: This post is ridiculous.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Tough call, but it does seem ignorant. I would be offended at the comparison if I were an aspie.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Poster's opinion and probably wrong but does not cross over into freeperland.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)you missed the point of the OP completely. But you have lots of company in that.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)elleng
(130,921 posts)hlthe2b
(102,282 posts)Biden is a very honest guy who sometimes blurts out what he thinks without consideration.
Those with Asperger's need more understanding not exploitation.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)is a key feature of people with Aspergers. They can have many wonderful qualities, but it isn't second nature to put themselves in the shoes of "normal" human beings. They can't think like them.
Temple Grandin has empathy with animals, but not with most people.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)You really spent a lot of time on that.
Why?
jillan
(39,451 posts)ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)then and it's even more bullshit now.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)why not just speak up there instead of starting another rather .... stupid... mockery?
wish I could unrecommend this OP.
renie408
(9,854 posts)before you start doing this shit? In the past couple of days I have seen a lot of really bizarre behavior from low-post-total members. Yesterday I saw somebody with about 250 posts telling somebody with 20,000 posts that they were NOT good DU members. WTF?
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm completely missing your point here. What are you trying to say???
renie408
(9,854 posts)diarrhea of the mouth. Or, more accurately, keyboard.
Just guessing. Nobody is referring to you. I *think* we are all still talking about the OP.
You gotta admit, this whole post was weird as hell. And so many words....so many words....
(I might be getting a little weird myself. I have a sinus infection so bad my top teeth hurt. Add that to no sleep due to said sinus infection and I am getting a little punch drunk)
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)it is a really weird thread, and only seemed to get weirder. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Hope your sinus' get better. The high pollen count can't be helping much.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)we are all on the same page-
That being that the OP is innapropriate and disruptive.
I misunderstood the reply to my reply to the OP, and hence your reply.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)having a certian number of posts????
The OP didn't need to try and slime VP Biden to make a point about a post that obviously pissed 'him' off.
I said absolutely nothing about who was a 'good DU member'-
WTF is right. Am I completely misunderstanding you?
Please explain.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I came across this thread without realizing that it was in response to another thread. I thought it was just super weird. Then when I saw YOUR post, I realized that this one must be connected to something else. I had already checked the OP's post count because my first instinct when I saw this thread was 'troll'. THAT connected in my head to some other instances of low-post count members doing odd things.
I find the original post very odd. I was kind of kidding about posters waiting awhile before they start doing weird things.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)I was so offended- I completely misunderstood what you were saying.
thanks for explaining.
renie408
(9,854 posts)kiranon
(1,727 posts)and as the mom of two autistic children who are now teenagers. But, wouldn't diagnose either without a lot more information and having met and spent time with them. My older child has learned to "look people in the eye" by focusing just above or below the eyes and this technique is used by many high functioning people on the autistic spectrum. Being unable to be comfortable being social and close to other people is a large part of being autistic. Some learn to act social and drop the act when alone and have a hard time sustaining being social for long periods of time.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to the point, i have reduced it to fuzzy brain. and that too has its own place, from what i understand.
i havent had him tested, though we have been aware the oddity (with love and we are fine with the word) from day one. by kindergarten, i was reading books on the learning styles and the tools he needed to help him override his challenges. i refused to have him tested because none of us had the need and always had teachers work with him, to the point he excels today, even though this is who he is and always will be who he is.
we do not see it as a negative. he loves this part of who he is cause it gives him his uniqueness in other areas he values.
my other son has his issues. but they are more physical than mental like my other son. motor skills, ect... i did test him extensively because it effects the physical world of his where it can be seen. with him, and the extensive 3, 4, 5 years of trying to figure it out, the doctor and i concluded, it is simply a part of who son is and we will leave it at that, loving him just as he is. he may not excel in the same manner as others, but, so.
we have no issue at all being honest and open about the differences my boys experience.
it just is not part of our life to see it as being less.
i find all this fascinating, having it in my home and never prior to kids. also over the years of participating with children my kids age, i am seeing more and more behaviors that highlight these syndromes.
i do not know about romney. there are physical behavior that make me wonder what is up. i think we can discuss this, without any particular group being offended. i know my oldest has a fascination with this and has done lots of reading. he often discusses this. and is very insightful on behaviors.
i learned a lot in that other thread. especially the people that have live, everyday experience with it. i do not think people were being hurtful.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I had a doctor tell me I should get tested for Aspergers at the age of 60. Well, I survived long enough in this world without getting into trouble, so NO.
Better to say was not properly socialized, like with a pet if you want. I refuse to believe every one has some syndrome or another.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)UNREC.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Like you said, Joe is way to friendly and too much of a people person to have it. Mitt is simply more of an introvert as Gore and Kerry were. I am an introverted person and I do not have Aspergers.
My cousin has it. He has some trouble relating to others and even has trouble with his own little sisters. He plays to the side of other children, not with them. He can be pretty intense when he does like something and he likes to repeat it a lot. He uses literal language a lot as well. He has trouble with irony. Mitt simply seems like an awkward, entitled and perhaps shy person. Those types are not going to do well running for President. I hate crowds, I almost get sick being surrounded by too many people. I hate speaking in front of others and I never want attention on me. That is not Aspergers.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)language from a kid so young. "yes. and a complete, complex sentence" that any four year old would just say ya.
and you remind me, watching son enter his mother days out class. i would walk directly to the teacher, and we would watch son, walk the perimeter of the class room. the kids would go to him, because the kids all loved him.
interesting. i am remembering all those years ago, with the subject being brought up again.
(as i said in another post, i never had him tested. he came at the time drugging/labeling was the answer.)
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)he is very different. I have learned to be very clear and direct with him. He is a great kid, you just have to approach things in a different way with him. I have also worked with autistic children as a sub and paraprofessional at schools. The lack of communication is evident the moment you step in the room with them. They are in their own worlds many times but if you do it the right way, sometimes you can be let in.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)Asperger syndrome is often considered a high functioning form of autism. It can lead to difficulty interacting socially, repeat behaviors, and clumsiness
People with Asperger syndrome become over-focused or obsessed on a single object or topic, ignoring all others. They want to know everything about this topic, and often talk about little else.
People with Asperger do not withdraw from the world in the way that people with an autistic disorder do. They will often approach other people. However, their problems with speech and language in a social setting often lead to isolation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002516/
Joe shows none of those signs, hence, you are full of shit.
FSogol
(45,487 posts)gateley
(62,683 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)As a parent of a child on the spectrum, I thought the *other* thread was a little offensive.
Aspergers Syndrome is not an insult.
Mitt Romney, in all seriousness, is probably a sociopath.
He would be a nicer person and more qualified to lead if he were *more* like a person with Aspergers not less like one. And that is the point I think the OP is trying to make.
gateley
(62,683 posts)the point you're making. I think people are interpreting this as you charging that Joe does have AS -- it's a LONG post and we're reacting to the subject line. But I do think you make your point very well -- and thoroughly.
We're not diagnosticians.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)Which I think is a shame.
aquart
(69,014 posts)DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)It's nothing of the sort.
ailsagirl
(22,897 posts)MyshkinCommaPrince
(611 posts)It will not be in the DSM-V, to be released in 2013. It will be replaced with Autistic Spectrum Disorder, with a specified level of severity. I have read that "most" diagnosed Aspies "should" qualify to be "folded into" the new diagnosis, but also that part of the reason for the change is to reduce the statistically troubling incidence of autism diagnoses. So we should all get used to thinking in terms of ASD, apparently.
I've been wondering if Amelia Bedelia was an Aspie, myself.
Full disclosure: I am a twice-diagnosed Aspie, myself. I'm a bit worried about the changing diagnoses.
Deb
(3,742 posts)I now have a total wtf look about me, what does that prove? oh...yeah...wait...
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)but it is clear that your very first point is wrong (I haven't gotten any farther than that in your post yet).
Let us look at those "Bidenisms" shall we? (sticking to 4 paragraph rule)
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/joebiden/a/bidenisms.htm
^snip^
"Folks, I can tell you I've known eight presidents, three of them intimately." --Joe Biden, Aug. 22, 2012
Look at what they [Republicans] value, and look at their budget. And look what they're proposing. [Romney] said in the first 100 days, he's going to let the big banks write their own rules -- unchain Wall Street. They're going to put y'all back in chains." --Joe Biden, speaking to a largely African-American audience in Danville, Va., Aug. 14, 2012
"My mother believed and my father believed that if I wanted to be president of the United States, I could be, I could be Vice President!" --Joe Biden, campaigning in Youngstown, Ohio, May 16, 2012
"I promise you, the president has a big stick. I promise you." --Joe Biden, citing Theodore Roosevelt's famous quote, "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." (April 26, 2012)
The choice of words in unfortunate but each comment is withing normal social parameters.
In the first one he used the word "intimately" and was/is attacked for it. Yes, that word does imply physical intimacy but it is not restricted to that use. You can have an intimate friend and not have sex with him/her. This is an entirely appropriate statement and the idea that using this word is similar to insulting the cookies that someone has just presented you with is not a valid point.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intimately?s=t
^snip^
in·ti·mate1 [in-tuh-mit] Show IPA
adjective
1.
associated in close personal relations: an intimate friend.
2.
characterized by or involving warm friendship or a personally close or familiar association or feeling: an intimate greeting.
3.
very private; closely personal: one's intimate affairs.
4.
characterized by or suggesting privacy or intimacy; warmly cozy: an intimate little café.
5.
(of an association, knowledge, understanding, etc.) arising from close personal connection or familiar experience.
The second quote attacks him for saying that they would put "you" back in chains. It was/is an attempt at continuing the metaphor which, unfortunately, fell short due to the other associations that being put in chains implies. Again, it is not an inappropriate comment it is simply that the metaphor did not extend well. The only real problem here was that he was speaking to an audience that was mostly African American. There might be a tiny bit of insensitivity here but if you compare that to insulting the entire nation of Great Britain when all he had to say was "I have every confidence in the people of Great Britain" it is very different.
The third quote is simply incorrect punctuation. The quote should be "... if I wanted to be president of the United States, I could be. I could be Vice President!. Replace that comma with a period and it is clearly not a gaffe at all. Two separate possibilities. Not socially inappropriate in the least.
The forth is similar to the first. A "big stick" is a euphemism for a large penis. VP Biden was referencing Pres. T. Roosevelt's famous quote but the small minds who heard it went somewhere else with it. The fact that the man does not have a filthy mind should not equate to Rmoney's inability to conform to social norms.
I think you should take those two points away from V.P. Biden.
dawg
(10,624 posts)There was a thread that speculated that Mitt Romney had Aspergers Syndrome.
This thread is mocking that one.
And most of the replies are totally missing the point.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)It's not the first time I've seen a herd of people here rush to judgment about something they probably haven't read through all the way to the end. It's too bad the OP didn't provide more context, I guess, though who knows if that would have changed the knee-jerk reactions?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)From people who didn't bother to read to the end.
As usual.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)want to speculate about a RMoney v. Biden match up on this issue. RMoney isn't the VP candidate for the Greedy Old Party, now, is he?
Why don't you tell us how Biden's AVM's have affected him, and if he has hemorrhoids or the odd hernia?
You're not his doctor, are you?
I find this post objectionable on a number of levels. Will your next essay compare Lyin' "Eddie Munster" Ryan to Obama? And what would be the point of that?
I've met Joe Biden--he's no fool. He's the smartest guy in the room--really. He's ten steps ahead of most when it comes to foreign policy. He has been around the block politically. He knows how to work a crowd.
There's just no way ANYONE could call the guy "cold." Ever.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)and please think again.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Biden is not matched up against RMoney, and the original post about Mitt had citations. This is just a lame rebuttal, not even using Mitt's opponent, cherry-picking symptoms, and not offering any links to suggest the matter was one under discussion.
It's a "You be mean to me, I'll be mean to you" type post. It's a major fail. The place for it was in the original, unreferenced "Mitt" thread--not here.
I'd unrec this if I could.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)I'm surprised, too, because I've seen your posts and you strike me as a pretty thoughtful person.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The place for this OP is in the thread discussing Mitt, IN CONTEXT-- not as a stand-alone OP.
It reads as a demotivating essay with some anti-Biden commentary.
If that was not the OP's intent, the OP needs to do some serious editing. Better still, delete the mess and put the OP as a post within the thread where the discussion was first raised.
I also find the HIT -N- RUN nature of the essay curious. Most people who write a throw-down of this nature at least hang around to respond to people commenting. Yet this poster has been silent and has not posted ONCE to a thread of their own creation. Sniff. Sniff.
I read very contextually, and the subtext of this essay comes off in an anti-Democratic, anti-Biden manner. It is just this side of a TOS violation.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I keep asking, but nobody will answer...
Isn't a TOS violation to refer to another thread, even obliquely, in your thread? I thought that was kind of shit starting. Which, BTW, this thread did. Start shit, I mean.
And OMG! I am always tripping over the damn Terms of Service til I want to look something up in them. Where the hell are they?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's also a cute way to sow dissent if one has a mind.
There's always a link to the TOS at the bottom of the page: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice
renie408
(9,854 posts)And I am not certain about that 'mind' thing.
Who in their right mind writes a bazillion words to make a point so oblique that 75% of the people responding have no clue what you are doing?
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)being the original thread. Beyond that, sorry, I think you're mistaken. I don't see how you can possibly read the last 3 paragraphs of the OP and come away from it thinking it has anything to do with Joe Biden or being anti-Democratic. It's about something else entirely. As to why it seems like a drive-by, my guess would be that the OP is upset and angry about some of the comments made about people on the autism scale in the original thread about Romney, but I admit I'm just guessing.
renie408
(9,854 posts)And sinus infection or no sinus infection, I have pretty good reading comprehension skills. Without the other thread for context, this just comes off as weird as hell. I really did think it was some kind of freak troll who wrote it and almost alerted it myself til I saw where somebody referred to the other thread.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)But I wasn't replying to you.
renie408
(9,854 posts)DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)rebut those comments is IN the original thread about Romney.
This thread invites dissent, anger, annoyance, and calls of "Bullshit!!!"---but it doesn't do a thing to rebut the original comments. It causes one to look askance at the motivations of the (absent) poster.
There's one of two things happening here. Either the OP poster engaged in some horrifically obtuse rudeness--a complete lack of netiquette; or the OP is trolling for a bit of outrage and excitement. If the latter, one has to ask is the poster just an attention junkie, or a troll? If the former, the poster should learn from what is a total error in judgment, just delete this mess and take his or her fight back to the ORIGINAL thread to respond in context, where his or her arguments will get responses that don't involve "WTF?" and "Why the drive-by?" and "This is borderline disruptive."
This isn't MIND READERS UNDERGROUND, but the OP acts like it is--and that's the best face I can put on that mess upthread.
renie408
(9,854 posts)Isn't it a TOS violation to refer to another thread in your thread?
I could look this up, but I am claiming the sinus infection as my excuse.
Please don't make me go wade through all that stuff to find out....
MADem
(135,425 posts)It is a TOS violation to gratuitously shit on candidates during election season, though. This post, standing alone like this, outside of any context, is damn close to the line--IMO.
I wandered into it without having seen the thread which it supposedly addresses and was totally lost. By itself this looks like a really, REALLY long, rambling attack on...somebody. Sometimes Biden, sometimes Mittens.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)As another person in this thread insists, the best place for this rebuttal would have been in the original thread, but as to this violating the TOS, I really don't know.
renie408
(9,854 posts)I think it should. This is annoying.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)Hope you feel better soon.
JohnnyLib2
(11,212 posts)I hope this subject goes off limits.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Hmmmmmmmm.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)It is so freaking obvious to me that Joe Biden does NOT have Asperger's that I don't know where to begin.
janlyn
(735 posts)You say that Biden could not be an Aspie because he is too gregarious, too much a people person. He meets people's eyes, hugs them easily, and likes being in a crowd.
Things are not always what they seem.
I am a high functioning Autistic who IS gregarious,Who IS a people person and enjoys crowds in moderation.
People of Mine and Bidens generation were not diagnosed or were not diagnosed until late in life.
We had to learn to adapt,take on protective camouflage so to speak. It was the only way to survive...no excuses were made for us.
We were considered to be ODD or different.
I can't speak for other Autistics, but in my case I watched others to pick up on social cues,I hid my aversion to bright lights,loud noises.certain textures and tastes. And tried to appear as normal as possible to keep from getting the crap beat out of me in school.
Having said all that,I also wanted to point out that far from being insulted by your post,It made me go hmmmmmm.
I like to explore and question,us Aspies love to gain new knowledge!
earcandle
(3,622 posts)When a person speaks his mind without regard to rackets going on in a room, he is speaking his truth, his character, his intelligence and his goodwill, especially if the communication seeks to see the elephant in the room and point it out.
We all start out with this unique ability to tell the truth as we see it, and to build relationships based on common truths, or develop a healthy respect for arguing or accepting the differences, if we are civilized. Just because some rackets are disrupted as a result of such a character and his willingess to communicate ethically doesn't mean a person is operating from a diseased state.
In fact, I think this is a healthy way to be. I think that this labeling is merely a tag meant to stop people who may have valuable truth seeking points of view from expressing them.
Aspergers tagging is just an act of suppression against the genius of an unstoppable person living in the moment with no regard for etiquette and a lot of regard for ethics.
Etiquette is a formal suppression technique to stop language regarding the elephant in the room, or the emperor who has no clothes. Etiquette has formal methods of exclusion, and because belonging is herd behavior it captures the attention of those too afraid to speak out because they want to belong more than they want to think, or feel or participate or experience or have realizations that can generate more knowledge and cause change.
Ethics, on the other hand, is irrepressible.
It is one of three Offices of Truth as determined by one of the fathers of Western Civilization, Aristotle. Ethics has three components:
character, intelligence, and goodwill. If one component is missing, there is no ethics.
A character is someone who dares to stand out and be different (says things that others fear to say due to etiquette concerns).
Intelligence is the ability to communicate that character in such a way that people know they are unique.
Goodwill is a commitment to forward the action in positive or useful ways for those concerned, and to never communicate ill will towards others, and they don't mind damning those who are pulling rackets on their fellow man.
More at http://www.noodlebrain.com/nbpciv.swf
So if someone is labelling you with Aspergers, tell them to shove it and keep on telling your truth. Eventually they will see how young and stress free you are and how much fun you are having with arts and sciences and words and love in your life that they too might wake up and smell the roses instead of living in stink.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i like your post. a lot. somewhere along the way i chose to live in this way. i think it was about a decade ago when thinking of future or past, but being in the now. it is so freeing. and for the most part, i am very much respected and embraced, though i will say things that others may not dare. regardless of what i say, people know and feel it comes from the heart and not sittin in judgment. but what i feel, with the understanding at any point i can be wrong. totally strangers will give me life stories and history in moments. we all connect.
i use to not be this. now i cannot imagine being anything different. i really do not think i could.
it has worked for me
i so see it in biden. makes me like him all the more, in his perfectly imperfect, yet heartfelt self.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)it can diminish the seriousness of it like when people joke about having OCD behaviors when in reality not everyone has OCD. Also it makes broad generalizations about those who do have it, and gives people impressions about what autistic people might be like without actually knowing someone who has it. My autistic son for example is outgoing. He doesn't always make eye contact and sometimes he has a hard time paying attention to what the other person is saying in a conversation. But, he is very funny. He likes making people laugh. They call it a spectrum for a reason. Autistic people can be as varied as the general population.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)He is extremely intelligent, like many people with Asperger's, but that's where it stops.
Biden is extremely comfortable with people, especially one on one. He has no problem meeting someone's gaze, and engaging in conversations that are two-sided.
He's just an honest guy, so is a straight talker. What people call "gaffes" are not the same as speaking inappropriately at the wrong time. I have an Aspie close to me, and the difference is clear. He will bring a topic up hours later, that no one is discussing, as if we never stopped talking about it, but he doesn't make gaffes.
Response to Moonwalk (Original post)
Alduin This message was self-deleted by its author.
Alduin
(501 posts)naturallyselected
(84 posts)I have a son who was diagnosed with Aspergers, and I don't like the diagnosis - this isn't a disability except to those who want to pigeonhole people for their individuality. We have a neighbor who has Aspergers, yet he and my daughter were the best of friends for years - she understood his quirks, and accepted them. I have had many students with Aspergers, and they are as different from each other as any other kids.
That said - I see an awkwardness, an uneasiness with people, in Romney that I have never associated with Joe. Is this a sign of Aspergers? I don't know - I don't know him well enough to even guess, and don't care to. I'm not sure what the point is of the OP. To show how ridiculous it is to diagnose Romney, by comparison to someone who is clearly not dealing with Aspergers? If someone presented these two individuals to me, and told me that one has Aspergers, I would pick Romney in a second. This doesn't mean he actually does, but I think the idea is a possibility, whereas it just isn't with Joe Biden.
And I think the original post about Romney was presented this way - that, from a distance at least, it seems possible, and that the originator of that thread was not coming up with anything new; others have suggested it too. I have considered the possibility before - I think that "cookie" exchange did it for me, and then I became aware of other traits.
I guess I just don't see the point being made by the OP of this thread. No one was diagnosing Romney, merely pointing out some suggestive traits. As a father of a kid diagnosed with Aspergers, I wasn't offended, and saw the possible traits in Romney. I'm not going to take offense to someone's at-a-distance speculation, and that's all the original thread about Romney was.
JohnnyLib2
(11,212 posts)I've brought up the issue of using psychiatric diagnoses in the meta-discussion forum....