Elizabeth Holtzman, former Congresswoman from NY, said it would be a mistake...

[kentuck]

...to only focus on this one impeachment charge about Ukraine.

Many Democrats are saying that it serves no purpose to re-litigate the election of 2016 and whether Russia influenced the results, or to re-hash the Mueller Report.

But Holtzman disagrees. She believes that this Congress should handle it the same way they did during Watergate. File all the articles of impeachment from the evidence gathered.

I would tend to agree with Holtzman that they should vote on all the dozen or so obstruction of justice charges. As well as the many times he has shown "abuse of power" of his office.

As well as bribery or extortion? As well as campaign violations. As well as espionage.

History should show the list of charges against him only reflects the criminal seriousness of his Administration.

Also, there is a danger, in my opinion, that if it is only about one issue, no matter how awful it might be, a good propagandist can find a way to defeat it if focused and given the opportunity to brainwash his followers.

[dchill]

1. Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and agree with Holtzman.

I think that's always a good idea.

[standingtall]

2. I agree with her

it would be a mistake to concede the Mueller investigation. What were all the investigations before the Ukraine scandal about if we are just going to forget them?

[saidsimplesimon]

3. It's for Speaker Pelosi to decide, way

above my pay grade and she has all the facts, we do not. Darn it, I'm hoping for leaks reported by the media.

[DemocracyMouse]

27. Um, this is a proud democracy. It's for the people to raise hell if Pelosi is ignoring the obvious

[asiliveandbreathe]

4. File all the articles of impeachment from the evidence gathered.

That would be "affirmative"....IMHO.....

[Maraya1969]

5. Yes. His entire presidency has been filled with corruption. This impeachment is also a good

way to bring this all out to the country and let the average US citizen see it and as a result I believe we will win big in 2020.

Maybe Trump can accidently #MAGA by shining a bright light on his incredible corruption and the corruption of the republican party to usher in a new democratic government in 2020

[Snackshack]

6. Agreed.

There is a plethora of crimes DT has committed that could be rolled up into Impeachment charges.

Obstruction/ Emoluments/ Campaign Finance/ Extortion/ Mueller report/ Taxes

I believe the NYT printed a rather extensive list of things DT has done. I would like to see a serious investigation of the blockade of Qatar early in DT’s presidency after they denied Kushner a loan also into the sudden Justice Kennedy resignation given that his son worked at Deutsch Bank that gave us Kavanaugh. I don’t think a day has gone by that DT has not broke a law.

[MsLeopard]

30. +1,000 nt

[empedocles]

7. What prosecutors did to convict Manafort, despite an anti-government judge,

and a trump juror was basic. Prosecutors used an overwhelming, black and white, limited case, that was extremely difficult to bias to not guilty.

Applied here, [short of articles of impeachment], would be to target a clear issue, like Ukraine extortion, for say a week - instead of the usual daily different trump scandals. [The daily scandals targeted to more informed / particular interest, voters].

Trump is effective at repeating basics like 'witchunt'/socialism, that eventually trickle down to the lowest voters.

[Caliman73]

9. I agree. Its the same pattern and similar charges anyway.

Obstruction of justice, abuse of power, with the addition of bribery.

Impeachment is not able re-litigating the election anyway. It is about exposing the pattern of corruption by this president and his administration.

Trump's followers will not be convinced and are a relatively small piece of the electorate. It isn't them who we should be trying to convince. It is the large number of people in the United States that are likely still not paying attention to politics ahead of the election. Those are the people who need to be exposed to the pattern of undemocratic behavior, lawlessness, and treachery that Trump has engaged and will continue to engage in.

[pangaia]

24. " It is the large number of people in the USA that are likely still not paying attention..'

i agree 100%,,

[StarfishSaver]

10. Six committees - including Oversight and Ways & Means - aren't needed to investigate th Ukraine call

Last edited Wed Sep 25, 2019, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

And they're looking at plenty more than the Mueller Report and 2016 election.

Wait for it ...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

13. that's the way ...

I don't care if they have to hire a forklift to bring Articles to the floor, throw the book at the bastard.

I wanta see twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is about.

Sorry, got carried away there.

Catalog every criminal act and every high crime or misdemeanor he and his cohorts have committed since the earth began.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Correction

..."Twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"

Sorry. But as the only black child in America who memorized Alice's Restaurant and forced friends and family to listen to me recite it just about every day for months, I seek every opportunity to quote it from memory as an adult so that my early efforts don't prove to have been for naught ...

[MontanaMama]

34. Oh my!

You just made me smile there...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

35. oops! your memory is better'n mine

[TwilightZone]

14. Agreed. People are ignoring the context of her comments.

Pelosi explained her rationale, it makes perfect sense, and she did not rule out adding other charges to the articles.

I really wish people, including Ms. Holtzman, would read the stuff they're commenting on. The articles about this on various media fully explained all of this....

[yonder]

11. There are bigger minds on this than mine,

but I say process everything that time allows in the House, pack up what survives in a nasty little bundle and ship it to Senate to do with what they will.

I doubt there will be a second chance for anything else - unless he really does shoot someone on 5th Ave.

[malaise]

12. Watched her and agree

She knows more than all the hacks combined - starting with Joe Scum

[Snake Plissken]

16. Absolutely, they should set an example of this criminal so nobody even thinks about trying it again.

He's made a mockery of the office of the President of the United States right from the very beginning.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

17. I agree

I believe we should add the "kids in cages with no right to hygeine products, broken families, possibly illegally adopted children" as well. There is really so much to pick and choose from over the past couple of years.

[Kid Berwyn]

18. Throw the book at THEM.

Trump. Pence. Pompeo. Barr. Etc etc etc.

All their high crimes, misdemeanors and demented perversions.

[Generic Brad]

20. Agreed

Leave them no wriggle room.

[SCVDem]

19. Can't go wrong with,

Human Rights Abuses!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

21. Yes, I hope this advice gets to the Democrats!

It would be a mistake to limit it to only one treasonous wrongdoing. Havn’t Nadler and Pelosi already been working on impeachment “behind the scenes”, so to speak? Wouldn’t that imply there are other offenses?

[BigmanPigman]

22. They can bring multiple articles and he only needs one

to be impeached. Bring out the whole list of crimes, he will get nailed for at least one of them. Lawrence O'Donnell just told this to Rachel.

Personally, I think they should go back to the very beginning of his life in crime (the day he was spawned).

[Mr.Bill]

23. In my perfect world

when the articles of impeachment are read on the floor of the Senate, it takes over an hour to do so.

[orangecrush]

25. Just heard on the radio they want to EXPEDITE THE IMPEACHMENT

By focusing on the Ukraine matter.

Whatever is in that whistleblower report is so bad, they want this mofo gone yesterday.

[Efilroft Sul]

26. The articles ought to be listed like our grievances against King George in the Declaration.

[wiggs]

28. I'm for listing as many articles as we can. But even if it's only a handful, that doesn't

mean they can't provide context and background about who Trump is by TALKING about all the other misdeeds and misconduct. The conversation doesn't have to be limited.

[Ilsa]

29. Multiple articles gives republicans an excuse

for voting against all articles except this latest violation. They can campaign on, "I voted to protect the President on everything except this one item. He went too far!"

[mountain grammy]

31. I've listened to Holtzman a few times

and I completely agree.

[DallasNE]

32. Congress Needs To Reassert Themselves In Other Ways Too

One example is the power of the purse. Write up an article covering Trump diverting taxes collected for tariffs and paid directly to farmers without Congress passing a bill. And include Trump's diverting of funds from FEMA and the military to build the wall.

[G_j]

33. 100% Agree with Liz

it would seem obvious

[orleans]

36. dems are saying this?

"Many Democrats are saying that it serves no purpose to re-litigate the election of 2016"

on chicagoland radio and local news i'm hearing and seeing tweets of repukes saying that

[markpkessinger]

37. I would note that these latest revelations are not about "relitigating 2016" . . .

. . . This is about 2020!

[bucolic_frolic]

38. A Moscow Mitch-Controlled Senate will vote on redacted summary of charges

Yes, go the full hog. But don't drag it out. Grab Mueller Report obstruction and do it.

I think a series of impeachment charges. maybe 3-5 in the first tranche, then another 3 or 4 rounds. There's enough to keep them busy until the election.