OK, Old Timers, I gotta say this:

[TruckFump]

As an adult in my late 20s, I lived through Watergate. Never liked Nixon, but was still shocked at what went on and glad that he was caught, embarrassed and forced to resign.

However, what is going on now with Trump, IMO, it makes Watergate look like a misdemeanor theft of bubble gum from a 7-11 by a 10-year-old.

[Funtatlaguy]

1. I liked the bubble gum in the baseball cards packets.

[librechik]

8. you liked that bubblegum? It was always hard and broke into pieces too big to chew.

[Funtatlaguy]

9. Sometimes, but I liked the flavor and my brother couldn't have it.

[kozar]

48. I ate the gum and gave my cards to my brother

back in 60s 70s when I grew up.. My brothers card collection was biggest contention of his divorce, valued at 300k,,,damn gum wasnt THAT good,,lol


Koz

[marybourg]

2. No, I think WG was much more serious than that.

[TruckFump]

3. Yes, very serious, but not on the level of what is happening now.

WG concerned ONLY activities done in the US with persons of the US.

MF45 went global and by his acts endangered other nations and not just ours.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. Yes, as bad as Watergate was, this has topped it by several degrees.

[TruckFump]

5. That POS in the WH put the freedom of our nation and that of

a former USSR satellite in peril.

Unforgivable...totally unforgivable.

And...he did it solely for himself and his massive ego, monetary gain, and to ensure that he won in 2020 so that he could run out the Statute on his criminal conduct.

[Scarsdale]

18. The presidency is the best "gig" he has ever had.

Little work, all the free golf he can handle, while making lots of $$$$ for his establishments. His "kids" benefit, too. Fly everywhere to hunt and make speeches for the tRump business. Ivanka was given $100 million of taxpayer money, to talk worldwide about women in business. Surely there HAS to be someone with an actual BRAIN who could do this? Ivanka looks like a blowup sex doll, with a brain to match.

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Naw.

The doll is smarter.

[olegramps]

66. What about Malaria the porn queen?

[True Blue American]

90. I don't care, do you?

[olegramps]

92. Yes, I do. She is representing the nation as the First Lady.

[subana]

68. ivanka

Ivanka looks like a blowup sex doll, with a brain to match.

haha....& even with all that money, she still has trouble getting respect from truly accomplished women!

btw, did you guys notice what she wore to the UN a few days ago?

http://dctribune.org/photo-emerges-of-ivanka-suffering-a-wardrobe-malfunction-at-united-nations-assembly/

I always thought fashion was her thing but apparently not!

[klook]

77. OMG, Daddy's favorite blouse!

Yecch -- would like to un-see and un-remember.

[subana]

79. haha!!

I'm sure it probably is daddy's favorite!

I couldn't believe she would go out in public looking like that! She not only went out in public, she went to the UN!!! I guess fashion is not her thing after all!

[not fooled]

82. Thank you

For saving me from clicking on the link, which I was about to do.

Is there a "Wardrobe Malfunction Barbie"?

[DENVERPOPS]

74. Several degrees?????

How about a factor of ten thousand.............

[DownriverDem]

87. WG

was not about another country like what is going on now.

[marybourg]

89. No, but it wasn't " the theft of bubble

gum by a 10 year old" either.

[wryter2000]

6. Same here

[redstatebluegirl]

7. I was around during Watergate, about your age as a matter of fact.

This is serious, but Watergate was pretty terrible too! The difference is Nixon was not stupid, on the contrary he was very bright, he was just horribly paranoid. He surrounded himself with scoundrels and thieves who had much to lose and would do anything to keep what they had, power.

Think about this, the committee to reelect the president (CREEP) paid someone to break into the offices of their rivals. Plus the psychiatrist of another. That is pretty serious stuff.

If you have not seen it, watch All the President's Men, or pick up a book on that time. It was pretty terrible.

[TruckFump]

10. Back when the Warren Report came out, I read it -- all of it.

That was my first insight -- as a very young person -- that our government LIED to us and LIED to us all the time. Nothing I have seen over the many, many years since then has disabused me of that opinion.

VN, WMD, Iran-Contra, Watergate, and now...the Ukraine scandal. All are bad, but maybe because it is Trump who is a total, unmitigated piece of shit, this is the topper for me. And, it seems more than ever the members of the party involved in the scandal are over the top in waging a defense. THERE IS NO DEFENSE TO WHAT TRUMP DID.

The more that comes out, the more I see that the rot is deep, very deep in our political system and "we the people," the middle class, the little people, the worker bees, are nothing to those at the top of the rotted heap.

[redstatebluegirl]

11. I read it too.

I wrote my Senior Thesis on Watergate.

[TruckFump]

14. Wow, what a "look back" now.

I remember thinking that at the beginning of Watergate, when the bells were ringing about the break-in, that some were so willing to ignore it. Seems like things have not changed that much. Just more willing to make excuses now, IMO.

I do have to say that I do not recall the Nixonites begin as rabid as the Trumperistas.

[redstatebluegirl]

38. Actually I kept that paper and had it out the other night.

I agree the Nixonians were not nearly as bad at the Trumperthumpers.

[barbtries]

45. yes, they still sorta believed in the rule of law.

however: on the day he resigned i went to my mother's to gloat. She wept and claimed he was the best president we'd ever had. i kid you not. she died in 1980 and i gotta wonder how she would have reacted to reagan, gw, and trump. sadly, i figure she'd be glued to fox and we wouldn't be speaking to each other.

[Caliman73]

70. One major difference is the media.

During Watergate there were 3 major television broadcasters and PBS, and newspapers like the Washington Post and the NY Times. The public got its information from sources that were basically covering the events with the same set of facts, and while the country has always been polarized, you still had to get your information from sources of information that were not totally slanted one way or the other. In this time period someone can consume media and never get ANY information about what is actually happening OR they get information that is so heavily spun, that they actually think that Trump is trying to uncover a vast child sex trafficking ring run by the "elites" and this is why he is being smeared. It was likely Watergate and the Nixon presidency that pushed conservatives to start their buy up of media in the late 70's. Nixon and his media consultant, a young Roger Ailes, had been toying with the idea of GOPTv to broadcast conservative only perspective though that would only come to fruition in the 90's with Fox News Channel.

I actually think that Nixon, and definitely Goldwater, were as rabid as Trumpers, they just didn't have an entire spectrum of media to secure their base and inoculate them from reality like they have today.

I can't say for sure, but I strongly believe that if Nixon had Fox and all the other media outlets that are around today, it would have been much more difficult to get him out of office.

[DENVERPOPS]

76. It is most interesting

Upon Jacquie's death, I thought it most interesting that she stipulated her memoirs will not be released until her children are dead.........???????????? Wow, that is really telling........

[subana]

69. All the President's Men

one of my favorite movies, in fact I watched it again a few days ago!

Someone on Morning Joe a few days ago said that Trump's defense of his actions would be like if Nixon had admitted he broke into Watergate because he needed to know what the Democrats were doing!

Nixon wasn't that stupid but apparently Trump is!!

[True Blue American]

93. 100% agree.:)

[Ilsa]

12. I posted this memory earlier from ATPM:

Deep Throat : The people behind all of this were frightened of Muskie and that's what got him destroyed. They wanted to run against McGovern. Look who they're running against.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. There is deper detail known more immediately today

WG era was filtered by what the newsmedia - tomorrow's newspapers and 3 national news networks and various syndicated wire services - selected as important and shared to the country. It was not an era fraught with fierce partisanship or the NGO's that we have today. Today the political opposition to these hearings bring an ideological war and army against politicians adhering to rule of law. Nixon's transgressions remained an inside job, managed by insiders for the most part. Not so today. Partisanship is killing the country, and it's driven by money, privilege, and the quest for power because they fund the political organizations.

[TruckFump]

15. Excellent post. Thank you.

Yes, exactly.

The stakes are much different and much worse today.

[Celerity]

49. +10000

[Chakaconcarne]

16. Damn... everyone needs to view this hearing in it's entirety....

[Jarqui]

17. I was around for Watergate. Protested Nixon multiple times.

This to me is worse.
Many more crimes.

When this all shakes out, I suspect we'll have exposed this man as a career con man who carried on his corruption from before his election throughout his stay in the White House.

A key difference is the change in the Republican party. In 1974, doing what he has done, Trump would be toast. Today, in spite of all he has done, we're still not assured of the outcome because of the depth of corruption in the Republican party.

[TruckFump]

20. It's like the Repubs are in it for themselves and not for our country.

Over the years, the totally corrupt supporters like the Kock bros have made the Repub party into a criminal organization.

[Wednesdays]

73. Nixon also didn't have a giant TV news network

propping him up 24/7/365.

[Jarqui]

78. And we do not have someone in the news business as widely seen and trusted as

Walter Cronkite to help keep America's eye on the ball.

[George II]

19. Nixon's Press Secretary, Ron Ziegler, described the break-in as "a third-rate burglary attempt"...

I wonder what this is compared to that?

[sinkingfeeling]

21. I'm 71 and agree. This is worse. More corruption throughout entire

administration and in Congress.

[TruckFump]

22. While I did not agree with the politics of Goldwater and Rockefeller...

...unlike today, I did not feel that they were out for personal gain only.

The entire Repub party of today, IMO, is a criminal organization. Any time a Repub of today speaks, I doubt the truth of what is being said. Way back when, I saw it more as a difference of opinion on how to get where we all basically agreed we were heading.

Today, IMO, it is the 1% with the aid of the Repubs for personal gain, willing to screw the rest of us -- all the time. They are reprehensible.

[subana]

71. true, republicans back then were completely different than now

back then being a conservative meant to be cautious. Plus they would try to find agreements with dems when possible.

Nowadays republicans are not cautious at all & will go to great lengths to support their party over their country!

[Mazeltov Cocktail]

23. But you know. . .

Lying about oral sex between consenting adults - that is so much more serious. . .more than Watergate or whatever we are calling this. . .

[ananda]

24. Agree.

I lived through the Nixon and Watergate years, and you are right.
This presidency is so exponentially worse it defies words!

Lock him up now!

[ancianita]

25. Different times, different laws. This whole thing is way more important than some semen stain

as evidence for impeachment, too.

Losing their fucking minds over that shows the trifling politics that Republicans have made of impeachment. Republicans, loud and clear, tout their double standard of presidential behavior by holding that a semen stain is not lawful or honorable, while colluding with foreign hostile powers IS.

It's really about the difference in sold out politicians who, today, do not honor their oaths of office; rather, who today enrich themselves and allow corporations to capture this government (see Sheldon Whitehouse's Captured (2017). Under today's scofflaw corporate market values, ANYTHING goes, law be damned.

I lived through Watergate and semengate in my 20's, as well.

The way I see then and now, Watergate actually was as serious as now, though election tampering has now gone global and is much harder to investigate. Semengate was an abuse of congressional power. This impeachment is more serious than both put together.

Thanks for your post.

[TruckFump]

28. Thank you for your reply.

Yes, the blue dress was grounds for impeachment to those who wallow in "moral outrage"...but extorting the Prez of the Ukraine for dirt on a possible opponent is just is no big deal, just politics.

Yes, politics with many if not most of the Repukes is for personal gain. Look at the Duncan Hunter case -- this crook is under criminal indictment and the rich Repubs of his very wealthy district are just fine with that conduct. Hello?????

Think back to the 1970s...so many things are taken for granted today as "just politics" that were to me shocking at the time. Today, I do believe that Trump was correct about one thing: He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and nothing would happen. Well, maybe Ukraine-gate is a beginning of some realization by the Trumpistas. However, for any of them to turn on his criminal conduct and go against him, I will only believe it when I see it, hear it, read it and watch it being engraved on the Washington Monument.

[vlyons]

26. most especially when you look at whom he appoints to head agencies

All Acting Directors that don't need to be vetted and confirmed by the senate. All horribly corrupt and willing to do Trump's bidding, while they themselves steal taxpayer money.

[Ligyron]

36. The Koch's, The Family, 1%, etc. had a plan ready to implement from the get go.

A plan for when they captured the Presidency for the second time and also had significant power in Congress.

We can all see it now involves ignoring norms and any decent behavior or egalitarian acts not codified into law.

When Trump was in, BINGO he'd sign almost anything they put in front of him 'cause we know most of this crap isn't his idea.

[NRaleighLiberal]

27. agreed. I envisioned impeachment from election theft night.

Took too long. He broke lots...decades to fix

[TruckFump]

29. Decades and decades.

Maybe this will be the end of the Republican Crime organization...eventually. We can only hope.

[subana]

75. I hope so too! n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. This is being referred to by some as "stupid Watergate."

That kind of fits, in the sense that much of what Fat Nixon has been up to has been either out in the open or revealed through incompetence and cluelessness. Substantively it's much worse than Watergate - and Watergate was pretty bad, when you consider all the skullduggery, thievery and all-around malfeasance that it involved - because it involves and jeopardizes national security in a way even Old Nixon wouldn't have done (though there was the Anna Chennault matter). You do have to give Old Nixon credit for a sort of clever deviousness that Fat Nixon has never mastered in the slightest.

[TruckFump]

31. That to me hits on the major distinction between Watergate and

Stupid Watergate.

Watergate was lying and political criminal conduct within the US to guarantee an election victory to Nixon.

What the Trumpistas did was and is a giant threat to world democracies. And..this is not just in reference to the extortion of the Ukraine. It is entire conduct of this Admin in regard to Putin and Russia. They are NOT our friends...and the same goes for the rest of the evil dictators that Trump just loves.

What the hell has happened to the Repubbies that used to be the party of anti-Russia, less spending and states rights. Not that all of that is true...but at least they mouthed that party line instead of what we are seeing today.

Gads, it's worse than BRAVE NEW WORLD and 1984.

[Hoyt]

32. +1. Nixon would have survived were it not for cover up and that so many were tired of VN war.

[TruckFump]

33. Nixon at least after his disgrace had the good grace to

redeem himself with many of us by some good acts. Not that WG was OK or that we forgot.

Trump will NEVER have the balls to humble himself and do any sort, type or kind of good work after he is booted from the WH.

[RobinA]

34. I Was A Mid-Teen

during Watergate and I always thought it was kinda bubblegum. Not to say it wasn't illegal or punishable, it just seemed sort of low rent. As does Ukrainegate. Again, not that it isn't wrong, it's just so banal. I don't really see it has all that different when you look at the broad narrative. Sitting President uses nefarious means to dig up dirt on rival in upcoming election.

[H2O Man]

37. Recommended.

Both were terrible. But Watergate was a domestic scandal, and this is an international scandal. (Still, it is important to keep in mind that in late 1968, Nixon indirectly contacted South Vietnam, requesting they hold out on a peace proposal, as his administration would provide them a better deal.)

In a sense, this reminds me of discussions about who was the greatest heavyweight champion.

[TruckFump]

39. Like your comparison.

So, do you think that there is any possibility that Trump would resign like Nixon did?

What worries me is that Trump does not have the intellectual abilities of Nixon...all of the corruptness, but none of the smarts. I am thinking that Trump may try pulling a coup and there is some sort or kind of a take over of the WH even if he is impeached. Trump and his followers, IMO, are rabid enough and crazy enough to try this.

[H2O Man]

43. Yes, definitely.

His nature is that of a coward. He has backed down in virtually every serious confrontation in his life. I am confident that he will resign in order to spend more time with Ivanka.

[TruckFump]

47. I am wondering if both of them and the rest of the Trump cabal will defect to Russia.

In order to avoid criminal culpability, I can see a whole new meaning behind "Trump Tower Moscow."

I do believe, however, that Putin would not treat them kindly...the useful idiots, are no longer useful. Frankly, I don't think that there is anywhere that Trump and his span can run to avoid a lifetime of corruption in which they have engaged. Hopefully the rightful consequences will follow them forever.

[H2O Man]

50. Interesting.

Some reports suggest that there were serious divisions within Trump's advisors when they were discussing Trump's planned phone call. Like all cowards, Trump has a history of fully expecting others -- even those closest to him -- to fall on the sword for him. That includes his belief people should be willing to be incarcerated to protect him. We will soon witness him throwing Rudy under the bus.

But others aren't so willing to sacrifice themselves. Coates and the walrus recently resigned. Others are still there, but I am confident will turn on Trump before he can turn on them.

[barbtries]

41. and Reagan

got Iran to keep the hostages until he was elected.

maybe the biggest difference is that previous terrible republican presidents were not as stupid and personality disordered as the current occupant, not that they were better people.

[H2O Man]

44. Good call!

A friend of mine was working on an article that tied Bush the Elder to that crime. One evening, he called his editor, and reported that he had just found the definite proof that Bush did this. The next day, he was found dead; his death was ruled a "suicide."

[barbtries]

46. wow.

i am literally shaking my head. so they have always been wannabe putins.
there used to be a webpage that was a compilation of all the deaths surrounding JFK's assassination. Years ago I happened upon it. we will never get to know the whole truth.

was an investigation ever done? I gather that you believe your friend was murdered because poppy had protections? so rotten.

[H2O Man]

52. No real investigation

by authorities. But all of us knew he was murdered. No question about it.

[barbtries]

54. I'm so sorry.

Have you written about it?

[H2O Man]

57. Not really.

It made people nervous at the time, of course. Especially his family. Some of them wanted it to remain quiet. I've mentioned it a few times in more recent years in various places.

[Wednesdays]

81. I was a college undergrad in 1988

And worked an information table for Dukakis in the student union.

A guy came up to me, introduced himself as a grad student from Iran, and told me he was a witness to the U.S. delegation meeting Iranian officials in the Fall of 1980 for that purpose: to hold the embassy hostages until after the American election.

He might have been a crank, but his demeanor and level of detail in what he told me, made me think he was very credible. I scribbled down the phone number of the local Democratic headquarters for him, and urged him to call them immediately.

I never saw him again, and of course his story never went public. Perhaps there was nothing behind what he told me, but I'm thinking he decided against retelling his story to any officials, and I regret not getting his name or contact information.

[DENVERPOPS]

80. Think about this, that no one has talked about

THE common theme since just before the Reagan Administration......

HW George Bush............under him, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz and on and on.

There is ONE common theme to the whole scenario......HW Bush. Head of CIA, then he, Cheney, Rumsfeld ran the era of Reagan, then HW was elected. HW pardoned all these guys, then brought in the same entire Reagan administration to his presidency. Clinton intervened, but then W got elected. Yet another eight years of the same cast of characters, cheney, rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz etc etc etc.

HW & Cheney have been working on this for decades.

[barbtries]

40. i was a teenager. i hated nixon.

that trump is so much worse doesn't change nixon's crimes. he paved the way for trump. reagan pushed the agenda forward, and gw introduced lunacy to the party. none of them ever suffered consequences, and here we are. if I am bitter this is why: if any one of them had actually had to answer for their crimes, we would not have trump. and here we are. it MUST change.

there's also the huge difference that republicans in Nixon's day still cared about the constitution. we don't have that anymore.

[TruckFump]

42. + 1,000

IMO, you hit this right on.

The Repuk presidents became worse and worse as time went on. Ronnie Raygun paved the way for the damages to the middle-class that we have today. They are and have been the party of the 1% for a very long time. They don't give a shit about the US Const...unless it can and does allow them to screw people over for their own financial benefit and to gain power over those they see less than they are.

[yellowcanine]

51. Well Watergate is what Nixon got caught on. There was that crap where he interfered with the

Vietnam peace talks underway during the 1968 campaign. That was treason.

[TruckFump]

53. +1 1000 EOM

[Hortensis]

55. Yes. But John Dean says they're the same kind of people.

Just farther down the very bad path they've been taking ever since the nation's shift to conservative domination around 1980 empowered it. Like global warming, most people missed most signs over these past 40 years and also never really believed it could get this bad before we stopped it.

[empedocles]

56. However, if you only watched they live fox House hearing, with chyrons, and were not real

clear on where the testimonies weight was . . . one could have a much different, 'lot of smoke' impression.

[Vinca]

58. I totally agree. Watergate seems like a prank compared to this. In the end, what happened

in Watergate should happen here. Trump gone and people like Barr in the hoosegow.

[subana]

59. I lived through that time too!

except I was in my early 20s. I never liked Nixon either but I always figured he was guilty. But Nixon was also an experienced politician. He knew a lot more about how the govt operates so he had a good understanding for how to keep some things hidden.

Trump knows nothing about politics or govt. That's why he keeps making himself look so guilty by admitting stupid stuff himself!!

True, this is much, much bigger than Watergate ever was!!! Even Nixon would not be stupid enough to try to get another country, not to mention an adversarial country, to try to win an election!! It's moving much faster than I ever imagined it would but that's mostly because of the moron-in-chief!

[benld74]

60. Adults in their late 20's did NOT live through Watergate

Watergate occurred in my HS years, early '70's. Nixon leaving in '74.
That's 42-45 years ago.
You may have read up about Watergate, but,,,,,

[TruckFump]

61. I was in my late 20s in 1974.

I in fact did LIVE through Watergate.

I am now in my 70s.

[benld74]

64. Apologies. Misread your original post

[TruckFump]

67. No problem!

[beachbumbob]

62. I lived in the Nixon era and whats happening now is so much worse

we have a man devoid of any normal sense of decency, driven by his own narcissistic needs for personal enrichment and satisfaction. A man who has NEVER been held accountable EVER.

Nixon was not evil. Trump is evil. I never thought we had lost our country when Nixon was elected and the re-elected. I never went to bed at night during the Nixon years thinking whether nukes were going fly. With Trump, I knew we had suffered a fundamental destruction of many things America has stood for the day he was elected. Unfortunately I was right.

We have raw abuse of power from the first moment and an opposition party that was unwilling to go to the mat countless times in the first 2 years of his administration against trump or any underling. Not until we saw the harm is so grievous have we seen democrats stand up. Pelosi was correct in a approach that let trump pretty much self-impeach. NOW we have to go all in and make sure we make the gOP a permanent minority party going forward and that means taking this administration and GOP leadership APART. McConnel is a crook, Ryan was a crook, both enriched themselves at taxpayers expense. We need a political PURGE looking collaborators, who got russian financial assistance, did NRA? Did national GOP?

[TruckFump]

65. Nixon was personally paranoid, but not evil...

...just a sick little man who prior to being POTUS, thought he had been used and abused and his use of dirty tricks was OK and part of the game. IMO, his fear of defeat was due to a loss of power that placed him on a pedestal he thought he deserved. Nixon knew he had done wrong with WG. The proof of his knowledge of the wrongfulness was the cover-up.

Trump, IMO, is evil AND sick. He is a total narcissist and sees nothing, absolutely nothing now, in the past or in the future, that he has done that could be or is wrong. Evil and clueless. Trump cannot even mount a good cover-up because, IMO, he does not see that extorting the Ukraine Prez was a wrong thing to have done.

[Brainfodder]

63. Corruption has been TOLERATED too long?

I was a thing when Nixon resigned, but memory of that time politically? I got zilch.

First memory of politics was the 1980 election, we had to follow it for a class project, I remember staying up late and filling out an electoral college map.

For me this sums it up perfectly:

Inflation then and since is the cause of a lot of issues, with wages not remotely close to keeping up?

Consequences....

[relayerbob]

72. Well, by all rights ...

Trump would have to mature significantly to get to that 10 year old level

[jimlup]

83. I myself was just coming of age politically in '74

and you are absolutely correct.

[KentuckyWoman]

84. My fav Nixon story

He had a staffer call a local pizza joint and order dozens of pizzas from the smallest pizza joint in town, delivered to his rival's campaign headquarters. Pizza guy shows up and gets turned away "we didn't order pizza". Hit the news, local pizza place stiffed by the candidate.

I love this story because it shows Nixon had no qualms about really hurting one of the hardest working types of small businesses that exist - just to get his jollies. A bully of the worst sort.

[TruckFump]

85. My fav food story about Nixon:

There is a local fish place in Newport Beach, CA, The Crab Cooker. It's been around for years. Very casual place, but jammed all the time. Paper plates and bowls, plastic-ware, lines around the block.

When Nixon was POTUS, the Limo and the SS pull up out front and one of the SS guys goes to the front of the line and says to the owner of the place that Nixon is there, wants to eat, and could they please open up a place for him to sit.

The response from the owner: Tell him to get in line and wait like everyone else!

[Skittles]

86. I agree with this assessment

yes indeed

[DownriverDem]

88. What do you mean by

"Okay, Old Timers, I gotta say this"?

[TruckFump]

91. Commenting on Watergate and Ukraine-gate viz

those who were adults -- or close to -- during both of these times.