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KentuckyWoman

(6,679 posts)
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:25 PM Sep 2019

I was asked a question today that I cannot answer.

Is America capable of anything better than bumper sticker politics?

"Lock her up"
"Send them back"
"Make America great again"

We are getting the point it seems half this country votes based on whatever memes they see in the facebook feed and make no effort to seek out anything remotely reality based.

I feel like at some point in my life we (as a nation) were capable of a real conversation. Are we still? I really don't know.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I was asked a question today that I cannot answer. (Original Post) KentuckyWoman Sep 2019 OP
Half the country is incapable of rational thought and debate. Doodley Sep 2019 #1
Actually, half the eligible voters don't vote leftstreet Sep 2019 #6
I'm having one right now with a work colleague who's an Independent and wasn't sold on impeachment. Claritie Pixie Sep 2019 #2
Not to absolve the trend but there are reasons for why we got here Brawndo Sep 2019 #3
I can agree with all that. KentuckyWoman Sep 2019 #8
You are not alone in your frustration Brawndo Sep 2019 #14
Unfortunately that is all the low information, low skilled voters in this country can understand. LonePirate Sep 2019 #4
Well, some of us are.. Left-face Sep 2019 #5
Demographics play an important role in politics and political affiliation. RW pundants are to blame YOHABLO Sep 2019 #7
I think the midterms are part of your answer, and analysts are Hortensis Sep 2019 #9
Since Edward Bernays Newest Reality Sep 2019 #10
It is probably Newest Reality Sep 2019 #16
Yes, but it comes through education, particularly through teaching reasoning. ffr Sep 2019 #11
Simplistic slogans and sound bites. BSdetect Sep 2019 #12
I would say don't confuse Republicans with all of America. Flaleftist Sep 2019 #13
"Fifty-four Forty or Fight!" was a common meme back in 1844 election. US history has many examples. Kaleva Sep 2019 #15
The short answer to that question is "no." Nay Sep 2019 #17
over 50% of the electorate give negative ratings stopdiggin Sep 2019 #18

leftstreet

(36,108 posts)
6. Actually, half the eligible voters don't vote
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:38 PM
Sep 2019

...give or take

Which means in a 2 party system, about a quarter of eligible voters decide who's elected

Claritie Pixie

(2,199 posts)
2. I'm having one right now with a work colleague who's an Independent and wasn't sold on impeachment.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:32 PM
Sep 2019

He is now! we're discussing every that's happened over the past few days, by text. I'm doing the same with everyone I know. I feel like it's my duty to keep them informed.

Brawndo

(535 posts)
3. Not to absolve the trend but there are reasons for why we got here
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:32 PM
Sep 2019

The decades long effort to de-fund public education, no longer requiring the teaching of Civics, abolishing the Fairness Doctrine in media, the rise of AM Hate radio along with propaganda TV (Faux). It is a toxic mix that has proven effective in dumbing down the electorate.

KentuckyWoman

(6,679 posts)
8. I can agree with all that.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:41 PM
Sep 2019

But I feel like every time the mature half of the electorate gets the legal and legislative ability to start turning the tide, we end up spinning our wheels on garbage like Don and his all putrid band. I really don't know how we turn it back... or forward.

Brawndo

(535 posts)
14. You are not alone in your frustration
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:48 PM
Sep 2019

Once we regain legal and legislative ability, we need to chip away at those specific problems and quit being so passive about corrective actions. We've experienced first-hand where that passivity leads. I believe an emphasis on education is the key to dispelling indoctrination.

Left-face

(59 posts)
5. Well, some of us are..
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:36 PM
Sep 2019

I subscribe to both the NYT AND WAPO and typically read both pretty much cover to cover every day. I actually logged into Fox "news" a few days ago and the difference between them couldn't be more stark if they tried. Both the Times and the Post carry articles from both sides of "the isle" and I usually read both, but on faux there really is no opposing view point, just non-stop RW propaganda, lies, cover up and obscufation of facts.
Now I know I'm a bit of a strange bird, but I can't be the only one.

It's a bit like the old days when people used to order merchandise from the back of matchbook covers.. I guess.. They get their "news" from the equivalent of the back of matchbook covers..

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
7. Demographics play an important role in politics and political affiliation. RW pundants are to blame
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:39 PM
Sep 2019

It's all very well calculated. The Right knows that they are dividing the country.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
9. I think the midterms are part of your answer, and analysts are
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:42 PM
Sep 2019

predicting even larger turnout in 2020.

Those chants you mention represent the behavior of a minority, of course: A minority of conservatives, perhaps half, and thus perhaps a quarter of the electorate. They're hardly representative of America. And even when you add in their hostile, noisy counterparts on the left, they're all still very much a minority.

Reality is, far more voters are repelled and disgusted by ugly partisanship than attracted to it, so they don't talk politics with those who are and relatively few do bumper stickers. That includes millions of those conservatives who are most unhappy with what the Republican Party has become.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. Since Edward Bernays
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:43 PM
Sep 2019

We have been immersed in The Spectacle.

This is the outcome. We are talking about a century of mass media designed to accomplish just what we see. Well, you could combine that with a breakdown in education and several other factors.

We may be idealistic about a population that is capable of rising to the occasion using knowledge, critical thought, refined discernment, etc. but, obviously, that seems to be becoming a bygone notion. The irony is that there we are more technologically advance and there is more access to information than ever before, while genuine discernment is trumped by mere belief and passing fancy.

If you consider that the number one incentive to dumb down a population is control, (in place of bullets) and that control is primarily in order to increase profits and sway opinion, then what would you expect? That may sound conspiratorial and maybe we are more collectively prone to herd instinct and the lizard brain, but there has been much anti-intellectualism in this country for a long time.

It is possible that those who tend to put knowledge and truth above opinion and belief may actually become biased about the idea that humans are rational creatures. We see through the lenses we have. However, that is all the more reason to promote it and support education, knowledge and the quest for truth, and I don't mean that necessarily denigrating or disparaging people's beliefs, there is a false dichotomy in that. Rather, we can transcend belief by way of knowledge, and what we can know might just point beyond beliefs in general and even metaphysical realism and the like. C. S. Lewis comes to mind here.

I think that books like 1984 point this out well and the movie, Idiocracy is a great documentary

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
16. It is probably
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:56 PM
Sep 2019

a bit more complex than your question begged, but I highly recommend the excellent BBC documentary, The Century of the Self for starters. Then of course, there is Chomsky's co-written book, The Manufacture of Consent, and Marshall McLuhan's, The Medium is the Massage, (Message).

The point is that manipulation, in my opinion, is contrary to being informed and cognizant, but rather, it fosters being pliable and vulnerable. It comes together quickly when you study it a bit more and might relate well to your question about "bumper sticker politics".

This has several parts, (on the sidebar). Excellent work, BTW:

The Century of the Self - Part 1: "Happiness Machines"



ffr

(22,669 posts)
11. Yes, but it comes through education, particularly through teaching reasoning.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:45 PM
Sep 2019

This classic text has introduced tens of thousands of students to sound reasoning using a wealth of current, relevant, and stimulating examples all put together and explained in a witty and invigorating writing style. Long the choice of instructors who want to "keep students engaged," LOGIC AND CONTEMPORARY RHETORIC: THE USE OF REASON IN EVERYDAY LIFE,

Flaleftist

(3,473 posts)
13. I would say don't confuse Republicans with all of America.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:46 PM
Sep 2019

Republicans are not capable of anything better.

Kaleva

(36,298 posts)
15. "Fifty-four Forty or Fight!" was a common meme back in 1844 election. US history has many examples.
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 01:52 PM
Sep 2019

Remember the Alamo!

Remember the Maine!

Oregon or Bust!

Nay

(12,051 posts)
17. The short answer to that question is "no."
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 02:12 PM
Sep 2019

I'm almost 70, so I've lived long enough to see the public move from newspapers/books to TV to the computer/Twitter/email. Over the years the change in media stopped progress the human race had been making toward more rational conversation and thinking.

That doesn't mean that ALL persons were becoming more rational and thoughtful, but it did mean that the mainstream thinkers were, essentially, more rational and thoughtful. There have always been crazy printed tracts (think the KKK, John Birch Society, Chick tracts, etc.) but their distribution was minimal and localized (crazy radio was local, generally,.) And TV rarely hosted these crazies and sometimes showed them as the bad guys. As someone mentioned above, Bernays refined the method and theory of advertising on steroids. He was a ruthless bastard who, correctly, deduced that people could and should be led by their emotions into doing whatever their 'betters' wanted. This, of course, is how the Republicans operate.

It's all different now. The internet has truly revealed the dark underbelly of humanity, and it ain't pretty. The evil was always there, but only could be spread worldwide and instantly once we had computers.

stopdiggin

(11,306 posts)
18. over 50% of the electorate give negative ratings
Sat Sep 28, 2019, 02:15 PM
Sep 2019

to BOTH major political parties. (OVER 50% disapproval for both Ds and Rs -- 52 vs 57-58%) An almost as large percentage think that the government does as much harm as it does good. The problem is not bumper sticker memes and a lack of critical thinking (although both are a deleterious). The issue is a profound alienation from government itself.
(and, yes .. one side of the spectrum is primarily responsible for advancing this mindset .. but cursory attention to current thought and opinion [including here on DU] will see that there is a fair amount of it on the left as well)

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