Man went back to bed after killing burglar

[struggle4progress]

Sept. 29, 2019, 11:53 AM EDT / Updated Sept. 29, 2019, 1:55 PM EDT
By Associated Press

... James Michael Meyer has been charged with murder ...

Meyer .. was awakened .. by noise outside and saw someone trying to break into his storage shed ...

... he told investigators .. he fired ... Police say he said he fired again "into the night" .. then went back to bed.

... Meyer’s wife called an attorney .. before her husband called 911.

Meyer refused to answer the 911 dispatcher's questions ...

... Meyer .. threw the bullet shell casings in the trash.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dallas-man-went-back-bed-after-killing-burglar-police-say-n1060086

[Hoyt]

1. Unnecessary shooting that gunners will count as justified, just like George Zimmerman stalking,

intimidating, and murdering Trayvon Martin.

[maxsolomon]

2. Why aren't we celebrating? Its another Defensive Gun Use!

<Police say he told investigators the person took several steps toward him, so he fired and the burglar dropped his pickax and ran toward the park behind his home. Police say he said he fired again "into the night" in the direction of the park then went back to bed.>

DGU! DGU!

Condolences to the petty thief's loved ones.

[Flaleftist]

3. It looks like he shot him in the back as he was running away.

[Downtown Hound]

4. Breaking into the storage shed?

Nope. Sorry. Your life is not in danger at that point. No need for deadly force.

[pintobean]

5. Texas Castle Doctrine.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-31.html

[COLGATE4]

35. Doesn't seem to fit the facts of this case

[Jake Stern]

6. Only in DU can a criminal thief be pitied

And a homeowner get hated on for killing him.

I couldn’t convict him for ridding the planet of a criminal scumbag.

[COLGATE4]

7. Regardless of how you feel, the door to a storage shed

isn't worth a man's life.

[Igel]

10. How about somebody coming at you with a pickaxe?

Now, shooting after he's run away is a problem.

On the other hand, the only way you can know he's run away is if there's light. He could run 20 feet, stop, and come back. A lot of people aren't used to dark, if it was dark--hard to know if the Moon was up. Now, after a while you can still see, but if he came out from inside, the owner's eyes will take 5 or 10 minutes to become as adapted to the dark as possible.

I take the first shots as, "get off my property and leave me alone," and the last wild shot as, "and I mean it." Bad luck, that.

If he'd run to start off with instead of standing another person's ground, he'd probably be fine.

I think a lot of people are taking it as utter callousness, shoot somebody and go back to bed. In this case it's arguably more "shoot, hear nothing, see nothing, assume the guy's gone away and go back to bed."

[COLGATE4]

11. Entirely different. But here there was nothing of the sort.

Guy hears/sees somebody breaking into his shed door at night. Doesn't call cops - instead takes a shot at the guy trying to break into the shed who promptly runs away. Valiant homeowner instead takes another shot in the directon of the fleeing would-be thief, then goes back to bed. At a minimum it's negligent homicide.

[Alea]

15. You're leaving off the "charged him with a pick axe thing"

He'll walk on the murder charge. They may get him for tampering with evidence though.

[struggle4progress]

9. Dallas is not a gun-shy city, so the story must look fairly extreme to authorities,

before they file charges

I'd guess it's something like this: would-be thief is shot in back while fleeing; homeowner goes back to sleep; wife phones lawyer in morning; lawyer suggests calling 911; homeowner provides 911 with no real info except how frightening it was; police find dead man with dried blood in park and realize there's a long gap between shooting and 911 call

Many people aren't that indifferent to human life

[Alea]

13. No evidence yet he was shot in the back

I'm more inclined to think the first shots, while he was facing him and close up, and being charged with a man carrying a pick axe, are the shots that hit him and eventually killed him. Maybe the 1 shot into the dark while the thief was running away hit him, but we don't know. More unlikely though.

Why didn't didn't you put the "came at him with a pick axe" part in your synopsis in the OP? That's a pretty important thing to leave out.

I do agree shooting at him running off isn't a good move.

[struggle4progress]

16. If would-be thief were shot in the front at close range, there wouldn't be charges

It's Dallas we talking about

Nothing was going to happen unless the story looked really ugly

How ugly would it have to be, to postpone the 911 call until you talked to your lawyer?

Dollars-to-doughnuts, the gun-slinger knew he'd killed the guy and thought it looked bad

[Alea]

17. Yes Dallas we're talking about

With a DA that doesn't even want to prosecute theft that is below $750 in value.

Who postpones a call to 911 before talking to his lawyer? A person that isn't even sure he hit someone since they ran off into the dark and a person that doesn't want to get burned by the system.

[struggle4progress]

20. Creuzot has said he doesn't want to prosecute necessity-driven thefts of less than $750

Such thefts are usually thefts of food worth $100 or less; and their prosecution (Class C misdemeanor) is handled by the City Attorney (not the District Attorney) in Municipal Court

See:
Texas prosecutors want to keep low-level criminals out of overcrowded jails
Municipal Prosecution Section

[Blue_true]

18. At what point does a holder of a gun has an obligation to stand down?

If a thief of a breakin are running AWAY, doesn't that call for the gun owner to stand down instead of firing at the person?

No one is pitying a thief, as one poster claimed. People just look at the facts presented to date and wonder whether a shot should have been fired at someone that was running away.

[MineralMan]

30. Really? I wouldn't kill someone for breaking

into my shed. That's not a capital offense, nor does it threaten me. I'd call 911 and maybe yell at the theif from my door, but I wouldn't shoot someone for stealing anything I keep in a shed.

Proportionality is important. It is.

[USALiberal]

34. Classy! And i know you much better now! Nt

[cwydro]

8. I'm not going to judge someone for defending their property.

I live way out in the country, and it’s damn dark at night.

If I saw someone breaking into any of my outbuildings, I’d be ready with my gun too. I sure as shit wouldn’t go out to confront them, but if they came toward me, I’d shoot.

This guy is not some young guy, probably scared shitless. He figured he chased the guy off.

I wouldn’t go back to bed though. I’d be up all night watching in case he came back. It can be scary when someone comes on your property in the middle of the night.

[COLGATE4]

12. Like it or not, the law is that you can't use lethal force

to defend property.

[Alea]

14. Like it or not, in Texas, after dark, you can use lethal force to defend your property

Last edited Tue Oct 1, 2019, 02:31 AM - Edit history (1)

[COLGATE4]

36. Please give ,e a cite to the Texas law that says that

[Alea]

37. ok

Texas Penal Code (2017)

Chapter 9. Justifications Excluding Criminal Responsibility

SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

[cwydro]

27. Oh yes you can.

Most definitely.

[COLGATE4]

29. Give me an example

[JI7]

19. if he refuses to give info how do we know her is telling the truth

[Alea]

21. The story only says he "refused to answer the 911 dispatchers questions"

I'm sure, through his lawyer he has or will answer questions and give details. If it were me I would only give a 911 dispatcher basic information. Anything you say to a 911 dispatcher can be used against you, as can whatever you tell the police when they get to the crime scene. In a self defense shooting, or any shooting for that matter, it's best to talk to a lawyer before talking to the police.

He didn't do himself any favors by picking up his brass and throwing it away. Police would use the position of the brass, and the position of the dropped pick axe to determine the position of homeowner and attacker. That was dumb, and so was shooting the final shot into the dark at the fleeing attacker. If he did hit him with that last shot, in the back, then he's probably in a lot more trouble.

[struggle4progress]

24. Picking up his brass and throwing it away: mens rea

[Whiskeytide]

32. I think that actually ...

... shows less culpability. The facts in the story are scarce. But it would be natural to throw your spent casings in the trash - and go back to bed - if you only thought you had scared someone off. If he really wanted to deep six the casings, he would have buried them or disposed of them in a more discrete manner, I would think. Searching through your trash is kind of search warrant 101. Anyone who ever watched a cop show would know this.

And going back to sleep? You probably don’t do that if you are concerned about being charged with murder. You have to practice your story, make sure the wife is on board, etc... Returning to the sack is not rational for someone who believes they just killed someone - even if you’re a heartless gun nut.

The guy may be an asshole because his first instinct was too go Yosemite Sam over a tool shed, and I hate to be seen as defending him. But I’m not seeing anything to charge him with based on what we know now.

[Buckeyeblue]

22. I think if you go onto someone's property to steal you get what you get

How am I supposed to know what your intentions are?

But I don't think you should ever just blindly fire into the night. That is irresponsible. You could shoot just about anyone.

And shooting someone in the back is cowardly.

But if someone comes at you with a pick axe, by all means, shoot them.

I suspect this guys story is mostly bunk, which is why he is being charged.

[JI7]

23. and why he delayed calling the cops and called a lawyer first

[Buckeyeblue]

25. I agree. This guy is telling a lie about something.

Ny comments were in general about having people come on your property.

[Bettie]

26. You know, we were burglarized this summer

it was horrible. They came in while we were asleep upstairs and took a lot of things. Things that can not be replaced.

And yet, at no time did I think "Gee, I wish we had killed whoever stole our stuff".

Never.

Also, who kills someone and goes back to sleep right away? Not normal.

[MineralMan]

31. This January, during a -20 degree cold snap, i went out to start my car.

Nothing. So, I opened the hood, only to find that someone had pulled the negative battery cable. Clearly, someone was trying to steal my car battery during the night. Fortunately for me, removing the battery from a 2013 KIA is a lot more work than you'd think, with several bolts needing to be removed. So, I put the cable back on the battery and went on my way.

I had no idea someone was doing that, but if I had known, I'd have yelled at the guy from my door and called 911. I wouldn't have shot someone over a $100 car battery. Not a chance. Never happen.

As it turned out, I knew who had tried to steal my battery. It was a guy visiting someone down the street, whose Miata had a battery charger hooked up to it the next morning. I made a point of telling the person who owned that house that they should probably lock up their cars, since someone was out trying to steal car batteries the night before.

I lock my cars now, too.