Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/jury-consider-castle-doctrine-amber-guyger-murder-trial/

Guyger is accused of murdering Botham Jean inside his own apartment last year. The former Dallas police officer claims she mistook her neighbor’s unit for hers and shot Jean thinking he was a burglar. After abbreviated testimony on Saturday, defense attorneys rested their case first thing Monday morning.

During a session, outside of the presence of the jury, defense attorneys and prosecutors argued over the language of the instructions the judge with provide to jurors. It was during this session that Judge Tammy Kemp ruled the jury can consider the Castle Doctrine during deliberations.

The Castle Doctrine, similar to the Stand Your Ground Law, allows a person to use “or using force (even deadly force) in the protection of a home, vehicle, or other property if someone attempts to forcibly enter or remove an individual from the premises.

The Judge also ruled that jurors may consider manslaughter when sentencing Guyger.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. White shooters killing black people are more likely to be deemed "justifiable."

Link to tweet

The @urbaninstitute found that when white shooters kill Black victims, homicides are 11 times more likely to be deemed justifiable. Justifiable homicide rates among people shot to death among the Black population doubled between 2005 to 2011 in Stand Your Ground states.

[Vinca]

2. Huh? It's not the "other guy's castle doctrine."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. From the legislator who wrote the Texas law:

https://www.mysanantonio.com/community/northeast/news/article/Texas-Castle-Doctrine-law-protects-our-3507040.php

The Texas law presumes that the use of force is reasonable and necessary when someone is unlawfully and with force entering or attempting to enter your occupied home, car, or place of business, or when someone is committing or trying to commit a crime against you.

But Texas law, like Florida's, states that if a person has a right to be present at a location where force is used, has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used, is not required to retreat before using force to protect themselves.

This means that if we are standing in our front yard, a mall, a grocery store, or any place we have a right to be legally, we are not required by law to retreat but may defend ourselves if attacked.

Our law clarifies that people are entitled to the presumption of reasonable use of force to protect themselves.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

14. That's such a convoluted explanation for letting a person off who broke into

someone else's home and killed them. A bs interpretation like this is only being applied because the assailant in question is a cop. That crap doesn't work for anyone else.

[Vinca]

22. That pretty much sinks her ship since she didn't have a right to legally be in the guy's apartment.

[Dr. Strange]

30. Yeah, I'm not seeing a convincing argument that she had a legal right to be there.

Don't see how this could help her.

[AllaN01Bear]

3. i just learned something. never heard of this part of law before .

always learning something on du. thanks

[brush]

4. The judge just set the stage for her getting manslaughter and a 1-3 year sentence.

Then she'll be back on the job somewhere packing heat.

[qazplm135]

6. 1-3 year sentence isn't great

although manslaughter or reckless homicide is probably the correct offense.

If the law allows a person with a felony conviction for manslaughter to become a cop, I'd be really surprised.

[brush]

8. I hate to think what thought you just put into my head. From the judge's ruling it's clear...

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2019, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

the powers that be are maneuvering to get her off with as light a sentence as possible. I was hoping that it would at least be manslaughter but now you've got me thinking that they may find her not guilty because of this castle doctrine ruling so she will be able to go back to work as a cop, mich like the cops in Tulsa, Detroit and other cities where murderous cops have killed innocent black men and are now back on the job in other jurisdictions.

[qazplm135]

21. I would be surprised if she gets off Scot free

Possible but I think she gets manslaughter.

[saidsimplesimon]

27. See Robert Durst acquittal

for killing and dismembering his neighbor, only in Texas where millionaires can buy justice.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/robert-durst-killed-neighbor-words/story?id=29689667

Why Robert Durst Killed His Neighbor, In His Own Words
By MEGHAN KENEALLY, BEN CANDEA, JOSHUA HOYOS AND JONAH LUSTIG

[qazplm135]

34. see the just announced conviction

but what did I know, I'm just an experienced criminal attorney who's done prosecution and defense.

[saidsimplesimon]

35. The conviction was just the sentence was not. imo

[qazplm135]

36. it was on the low end of normal

lower than I would have given but not abnormally low.

[Blue_true]

32. I agree that manslaughter is likely the correct thing to convict her of.

No police agency should hire her ever. One thing that I hope every police officer has is a distinct understanding of his or her surroundings at all times.

My guess? She likely had a drink or two after work, didn't pay any attention to warning signs that she was in the wrong place, then smoked the big Black guy she saw moving toward her telling her to get out.

[malaise]

13. That would be some twisted shit for sure

You asked my question. Botham was eating ice-cream in his own 'effin castle.

[muntrv]

9. It wasn't her castle.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. From the legislator who wrote the Texas law:

https://www.mysanantonio.com/community/northeast/news/article/Texas-Castle-Doctrine-law-protects-our-3507040.php

The Texas law presumes that the use of force is reasonable and necessary when someone is unlawfully and with force entering or attempting to enter your occupied home, car, or place of business, or when someone is committing or trying to commit a crime against you.

But Texas law, like Florida's, states that if a person has a right to be present at a location where force is used, has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used, is not required to retreat before using force to protect themselves.

This means that if we are standing in our front yard, a mall, a grocery store, or any place we have a right to be legally, we are not required by law to retreat but may defend ourselves if attacked.

Our law clarifies that people are entitled to the presumption of reasonable use of force to protect themselves.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. She didn't have the right to be in that location. She was not legally

in his apartment.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. I'm guessing that distinction is what the jury is going to come down to.

Ignorance is never an excuse under the law. OTOH, racism is a powerful thing.

[csziggy]

16. And even she admits that Botham Jean did not act in a threatening way

The only thing he did was to not follow her orders - which in his house she was not entitled to do after entering his home illegally.

[LeftInTX]

19. That sucks!!! It applies to Amber...(I was thinking it might apply to Botham Jean)

Link to tweet

[cwydro]

11. Unfuckingbelievable.

[evertonfc]

17. jury

The make up of this jury doesn't bode well for her.

[avebury]

24. What is the makeup of the jury? nt

[Sneederbunk]

26. 5 black, 5 hispanic/asian, 2 white.

[Blue_true]

33. The makeup is sensible. nt

[Turbineguy]

18. I think the Judge got confused with the

Mi Castle es Tu Castle doctrine

[Johnny2X2X]

20. Saw her on the stand

She was not at all believable. She looked like she was totally faking it.

If it had been Botham Jean that had gone to the wrong apartment and shot and killed a white person, they'd already have gotten life.

This case is sickening, the courts are showing they simply don't think a black man's life is all that important or valuable.

[uponit7771]

23. So folk in Texas can just blow each other away as along as they believe their at their home?!?!?

... jus, damn

[Alea]

25. I'm betting she does time but then gets off on appeal a year or two from now.

Which would be a travesty.

[guillaumeb]

28. The white female shooter was actually in the black victim's home.

So how exactly would this interpretation work?

[sarisataka]

29. As someone who supports castle doctrine

I would view it through the lens that she was entering a space she had no right to be in. The lawful resident had every right to demand she leave and therefore his actions did not constitute a threat allowing deadly force, or any force at all.

That she made a mistake, believing it was her apartment,
has no bearing on the judgment of guilt. It seems it would actually support a conviction of murder rather than manslaughter.

[guillaumeb]

31. We agree in this situation.

She was clearly trespassing, so she has no right to defend her home when she is actually trespassing. My view is that her attorneys seized upon this feeling it would mitigate her offense in the eyes of the jury, or the Appellate Court.