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brush

(53,792 posts)
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 10:23 AM Oct 2019

trump's likely defense against impeachment has two historical precedents...and it's scary.

In the early days of the republic Aaron Burr, running against Adams, Jefferson, and Pinckney, worked with the British to try to take territory from the US. trump's argument before the Senate once the Articles of Impeachment are presented to the body will most likely be that Adams, Jefferson, Pinchney or even Washington, who was president and finishing up his second term, would've been justified in asking for help from other foreign countries in finding out about Burr's treachery.

Adams won the election by the way as he got more Electoral College votes than any of the others. There was no popular vote then, which is an issue for another thread.

A more recent example is in 1968 when Johnson found out that Nixon was working with Vietnamese elements to delay the peace talks and wait for a better deal with him once he won the election, which would damage Johnson's chances of winning. Johnson would've been justified in seeking assistance from other countries who had knowledge of Nixon's treachery.

Johnson, who had announced he wouldn't run again because of the Vietnam debacle, found out about it and planned to use the info to get back in the race at the '68 Dem convention but the Secret Service told him they couldn't guarantee his safety if he ventured going to the tumultuous conditions at the '68 convention so LBJ shelved the plan to get back into he race and Nixon's treason wasn't disclosed then. I don't know why Humphrey didn't use that info to run against Nixon. Maybe Johnson didn't disclose it to Humphrey either.

Anyway, both of these examples are precedents that repugs and trump may use in the Senate trial to be found innocent. trump's strong arming of Ukraine has nowhere near the merits, IMO, of these two historical precedents but that won't stop trump and his repug henchmen from trying to use them as examples to show he was justified in trying to root out Hunter and Joe Biden's so-called corruption, which of course is not accurate but don't think they won't try it and the repug majority in the senate will certain go for it.

Scary, right? Thoughts please.

This hisorical info was offered up by an Ohio State history prof on Smerconish's CNN show this morning.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
3. There is no precedent there. Anyone "might have" done anything, but if they...
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 10:36 AM
Oct 2019

didn't, or it wasn't proven/known they did, it means nothing.

brush

(53,792 posts)
5. As I said, the merits of the argument might not be there but who's to say trump won't try it and...
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 10:39 AM
Oct 2019

Last edited Sat Oct 12, 2019, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

and the Senate repug majority won't buy it?

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
6. An impeachment trial has no rules of evidence like a criminal trial does, so...
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 10:42 AM
Oct 2019

he can try anything he wants.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
4. #Traitor actually did try to extort Ukraine to undermine our electoral process, the others didn't
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 10:37 AM
Oct 2019

NotASurfer

(2,151 posts)
8. That's the best they can do?
Sat Oct 12, 2019, 11:21 AM
Oct 2019

Our Burr is Guiliani. So far, law enforcement has caught several co-conspirators, is getting the facts six ways to Sunday, and I have faith and he will get his fair and speedy trial before settling into a cozy 12x12 cell. Won't lose any sleep when Pence gets dragged down as this Titanic goes to the bottom.

Johnson...the argument goes "he didn't do it, therefore it's all good if 45 goes for it". Bonus: Nixon never changed and resigned rather than be impeached & convicted for what he actually did.

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