What, if anything, is there to do about American ignorance?

[Garrett78]

I don't often read what Chris Cillizza writes, but I read an article of his a couple days ago and it's the end of his piece on which I wish to focus. Here's a link to the article: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/15/politics/donald-trump-fox-poll-impeachment/index.html

And here's the part on which I'm focusing:

The problem here is that the 60+ million people Trump tweeted out the incorrect NY Post article a) will never see any correction as to why it's dead wrong and b) wouldn't believe it even if they did see it.

Which is a giant problem.

Obviously American ignorance is not reserved solely for right wingers, but the Republican Party base is clearly "a giant problem" that helps enable so many other problems.

Nearly 10 years ago, I read this depressing article that the above excerpt reminds me of, as it's all about How Facts Backfire.

Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

This is an issue for people from across the political spectrum. But, of course, holding firm to *a* false belief or two isn't as destructive as holding firm to what amounts to a parallel universe, an alternate reality--a worldview that consists entirely of bullshit.

We've all lamented the stunning ignorance of the Republican Party base. But what, if anything, can be done?

One idea that occurs to me is for the next administration to push for making media literacy (identifying sources and verifying content, identifying the purpose of a particular message, determining who the intended audience is, etc.) mandatory curriculum starting in junior high, if not earlier.

What do you propose?

[NCLefty]

1. People like him keep on writing, long after being wrong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/24/donald-trumps-chances-of-winning-are-approaching-zero/

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/politics/hillary-clinton-2016/index.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/how-hillary-clinton-won/ (he wrote 2 versions of this in case either candidate won--he's nearly psychic!)

[yardwork]

13. Thanks for this. Cillizza is part of the problem.

[rampartc]

2. what good would a jr high class do?

they learn that guns are sacred and their distorted view of socialism in their mandatory civics classes. they learn about the great confederate generals in their mandatory history class.

at some point the real world is going to intrude, the civil war they long for or the nuclear Armageddon they pray for. or the inevitable collapse of their faith based economic system.
it will be as if a giant meteor fell on their heads.

[leftstreet]

3. Most of Trump's 'followers' are probably just looking for LOLs

[KT2000]

4. for some, more equality and respect would help

I believe most people compare themselves to others and if they see themselves as less than, they will cling to anything (guns) and anyone who puts the blame elsewhere and then gives them a "Winner" to align themselves with.

The people who populate rump's rallies do not see themselves as successful. They have aligned themselves with someone who they believe is a winner though. By association, they have become winners.
Patriotism is another form of aligning with the Winner. The US is number 1 (in military power) and celebrating with patriotism makes the person "number 1."
Followers enjoy the camaraderie of the other followers, reinforcing the need to not change - no matter what the facts may be.

Disrespect and inequality breeds emotional needs that will be filled one way or another. As our society becomes more alienated through technology and manipulation, this will just continue to play out.

[Garrett78]

24. That's why it's crucial that public education play a stronger role before those beliefs take root.

[KT2000]

34. respect and equality

must start in the schools. First day of school most kids look around and compare themselves to the other kids. If the child is obviously poor, a different color, etc. - and if the other kids point that out the cycle begins. Teachers must begin the year with a nice lecture on respect for others.

[Garrett78]

35. Racism is taught. We must do what we can to prevent it from being learned.

[KT2000]

38. Classism too

We don't talk about it but it is the elephant in the room. That must be faced too.
Look at a rump rally - full of people resentful of those who have more.

[not_the_one]

37. the trump "core"

have aligned themselves with hate, racism, homophobia, misogyny, antisemitism, etc.

For them to be woke, they have to face it.

There have been so many threads here about friends and family that are on the other side, and what to do, what to do.....

I say cut them loose. They are not worth it.

Bottom Line: your relationship with a friend or family member is not worth the continuing existence of this country.

When they are faced with a continuing increase of people, friends, family, associates saying they will have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM because of their continued support of the worst in us (personified by Trump), they may come around.

Otherwise, fuck 'em.

[KT2000]

39. Agree

Our country cannot survive if this continues and grows. It must be stopped - it is too late for adults who have made their choices but education of children must include respect for our differences instead of resentment. Resentment and jealousy are the ugliest of all emotions. Politicians will always be there to exploit that.
or - Democracies don't work? that is also possible.

[certainot]

5. two things - sex on the wrong brain, and rw talk radio

sowb is what causes the widespread increase in the need for certainty/avoidance of uncertainty characteristic of authoritarians, increasing the fear that elevates certainty over truth. a lot of that is not curable at the moment but democracy was supposed to counter it.

rw talk radio is why democracy is failing. it's the only major medium that escapes free speech feedback and 'market demand'. it is a well protected monopoly propaganda operation increasingly fed by the kremlin the last 10 years and completely ignored by the left/dems/liberals. that's the really fucking stupid part and the biggest political mistake in history.

[Joe941]

8. And faux news!

Hate radio and faux news need to be regulated.

[certainot]

18. faux news feeds off talk radio - destroy rw radio and it will starve

[GusBob]

6. Reading comprehension is a problem. Even here on DU

Short attention span in the modern attention economy. You have to try and keep things simple
My ideas to curtail ignorance
Less TV, more reading
Less religion, more science
Less consumerism, more DIY
Less fast food, more healthier livestyles
Less couch potatoes, more outdoors
More careers, less daily grind jobs
More vacations
More community service and volunteer work
Less tribalism, more altruism

Finally if everyone had to work a period of time ( a day, a week, a month) in the public service industry, any position where you had to deal with the general american public for 8 hours straight, you would realize how ingrained ignorance is in our society. One might be compelled to do something about it.

Ignorance is a huge problem which is the root of many ills, from global climate change to poverty

I barely passed 8th grade, but hard work and higher education, along with some of the ideas above helped enlighten myself

[Nasruddin]

7. more discussion groups

reading groups, something
less Bible study

[Auggie]

9. It's not exactly ignorance:

Read The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt. I've read it. Twice.

From wikipedia:

In the first part of the book, the author uses research to demonstrate social intuitionism, how people's beliefs come primarily from their intuitions, and rational thought often comes after to justify initial beliefs. He cites David Hume and E. O. Wilson as thinkers who gave reason a relatively low estimation, as opposed to more popular thinkers who give reason a central place in moral cognition, such as Lawrence Kohlberg and his stages of moral reasoning.

In the second portion of the book, he presents moral foundations theory, and applies it to the political beliefs of liberals, conservatives, and libertarians in the US. Haidt argues that people are too quick to denigrate other points of view without giving those views full consideration, and attempts to reach common ground between liberals and conservatives. He makes the case in the book for morality having multiple foundations (more than just harm and fairness), and said in an interview that morality "is at least six things, and probably a lot more than that" and "[religion and politics are]… expressions of our tribal, groupish, righteous nature". Haidt himself acknowledges that while he has been a liberal all his life, he is now more open to other points of view.

In the third part of the book, Haidt describes a hypothetical “hive switch,” which turns a selfish human “chimp” into a “groupish” human “bee.” Cultures and organizations have techniques for getting people to identify with their groups, such as dancing, moving, and singing in unison.

That last sentence nails it: Cultures and organizations have techniques for getting people to identify with their groups. Is it any wonder why hate radio, FOX News, and Facebook/Twitter are such popular propaganda tools? These are some of the "hive switches" Haig writes about. Some were developed solely for this purpose. Others evolved.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Interesting thinker. Thanks. . . . . nt

[GoCubsGo]

15. Yep. Tribalism is the big problem.

Politics (and religion, to a large extent) are being treated like a sporting event, where people pick teams. The only thing that matters is that one's team "wins." "Winning" is more important to them than any of the consequences, or of the human toll it might take--even when they screw themselves in the process.

[Auggie]

21. Exactly. Haidt cites college football as a group event ...

On any given game day, students, alumni, and town folk, comprising different ideologies, religions, income and education levels, come together with one goal in mind: supporting the team. Most of them will wear the same colors and recite the same chants. Afterward they'll all go back to their little groups, suspicious of each other. Pretty amazing.

[Garrett78]

25. I think it's vital that public education play a stronger role...

...in addressing problems such as groupthink.

[Mike Nelson]

10. Ignorance...

... should be fought with knowledge. But this is not going to work in certain cases... ignorance that we see in a #/% of Trump fans can not be changed. There is a voter to change... they may work and raise a family; they don't have time to really watch/read the news and may have fell into the propaganda (FOX etc). However, there are others that will never change. These are the bigots, also... I really don't know how the ignorance in them changes. there are people who can know a "person of color" and see their view was wrong, or, for an example, they can accept gay marriage.

But there is a group of ignorant people that will not change. Hillary called them the Deplorables. They've always been there... they were Democrats, too (Dixiecrats). I thought they would die off, over time, but I'm now convinced that they will always be around. Presently, I think the Republican Party has made a conscious effort to court this group as part of their "base" of voters. Making this clear may help... I often see news people commenting on different groups of voters, like the PA coal miner, or the suburban mom. I think people should talk about the ignorant bigots and how they vote. We have a group of racist/sexist/bigots and they are not really spoken about as a voting block. Shine a bright light on the Deplorables. Other people need to see this group clearly, so they will not want to be like them

[Hamlette]

11. what good will any of this do when their political leaders don't believe in global warming?

for instance.

Would help if our leaders told the truth.

[Buckeyeblue]

14. Most people have a difficult time with the big picture

They tend to want to apply anecdotal evidence to the whole. Facts to them are something that tries to discount their perceived experience. So they double down. They say my experience is correct and your facts are not.

And then there is a lack of understanding about the economy. Most people think in terms of payments. House payment. Car payment. Utilities. But economics is not taught in a meaningful way.

[Garrett78]

26. There's a reason why the GOP works so hard to denigrate public education.

[Iterate]

17. It's more useful to think of it as migration from one set of ideas to another.

At least it suggests an evolutionary basis for the behavior.

The issue may appear across the spectrum, but a few new-age nutters and explorers are not the problem. Having a third of the population hanging on to bronze age fears and superstitions is the lethal problem, and that number, at a minimum, is common to most societies.

I'm more inclined to think of MLK's "I've been to the mountaintop, "I've seen the promise land" as the beginning of an effective approach, rather than jumping straight to a new curriculum.

It might also be why Obama was such an over-the-top threat to them. There he was, but they had no context. Right-wing media gave them the racist context, and they chose national suicide over personal change. And they do express a vision of their promised land, horrifying as it is. From the Whitehead study, the largest single predictor of a trump vote was support for, or defense of, Christian nationalism. We know what their promised land looks like. You're not going to educate them out of it with a dribble of facts.

But we can detail the historical horrors of times when that's been attempted, and give modern examples of what a healthy, rational, egalitarian society looks like. In detail. It has to be a more comprehensive vision. Then ask voters with a series of national conferences where they want the nation to be in twenty years, a novel idea (actually it's a German idea). Only after that is charting a path with laws and programs realistic.

Hope this wasn't too squishy with broad strokes.

[Garrett78]

27. There's a world of difference between trying to educate adults set in their ways...

...and educating young children. Kids will still be influenced by their parents, but the opportunity is there for schools to play a more substantial counter-influence role.

I think if that doesn't become a major point of emphasis, little will change. Media reform is also vitally important.

[Iterate]

36. Leadership matters so much with young people too.

The largest voting age cohort since 1939 for white democrats and progressives in general is 1951, where support has been over 50% even in the worst years. It's not the birth year though, but the political climate when that cohort comes of age politically that matters. There were plenty of heroes for that time, especially in the civil rights movement.

The opposite happened though for those born from 1965-81, and they grew up at a time when Democrats were arguing programs and policy -the Reagan-Bush years. That was a mistake. We had good people, but not quite heroic with a greater vision. Young people who grew up politically during the Obama years will be a knockout demographic.

I had to look this up to check my memory. It's from
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/08/upshot/how-the-year-you-were-born-influences-your-politics.html

I don't disagree about the school-age education overall. I was just thinking of the core 1/3 who vote Neaderthal regardless of who's name it is, unless he's not vile enough.

Come to think of it, what might be a good model, and what you might be interested in, is the German system. I've seen it referred to as "an armored democracy" (rough translation, don't remember the original term). Some features: emphasis on history, civic rights and responsibilities, and critical thinking in schools; no absolute free speech right, limitations on speech advocating violence, some media limits; multi-party, with a minimum to prevent small parties from fracturing results; simple and secure voting; and a directly elected President whose non-partisan role is to (theoretically) have a moral guardianship over the Republic with reserve powers, guide discussion, has a veto on constitution matters, can pardon, signs all bills, etc..

[JCMach1]

19. Lack of Critical Thinking with too many Concrete Operational People; Religion feeds into that

in a huge way...

[Downtown Hound]

20. Educate, empower, and listen to the young

Win them over. Let the old ignoramuses die out. That's really the only option.

[MineralMan]

28. Sadly, you can only control one person's ignorance, and that person is you.

So many people are not just ignorant, but deliberately ignorant. Those people will not give up their ignorance willingly, and will resist being informed until Hell freezes over.

Those people are Trump's base, and make up the far right in the United States. You won't change them, so it's more important to focus on those who simply don't have information and provide accurate information to them. It's also important to encourage them to participate by voting.

The deliberately ignorant do vote. Sometimes, they outnumber the voters who are not like them, but only because people who are not ignorant on purpose often don't go to the polls. That's something we can help with, by encouraging those who refuse to embrace ignorance to get out and vote.

Don't waste your time on those who embrace their ignorance.

[Garrett78]

29. Children are not Trump's base even if their parents are.

Public education and media reform emphasis can make a difference.

[MineralMan]

30. Here's the thing: You can teach critical thinking, but you cannot

force people, even children, to practice it. Children are taught by many people, including their parents. A couple of classes aren't enough to instill critical thinking practices in everyone. Not even close.

[Garrett78]

31. I'm not talking about a couple of classes. I'm talking about media literacy and critical thinking...

...becoming a major component of public education from grade school through college.

This doesn't require a constitutional amendment. It requires a movement.

[MineralMan]

32. It's a great idea. Good luck with it.

Right now, our public schools are teaching to the test, though. And they're not doing a very good job of that, either. They're not thinking about teaching students how to think and reason. That went away long ago.

[mcar]

40. The right has been on a 40 year crusade to decimate public education

Here in Florida, they are very nearly succeeding. History is barely taught until high school, a "civics" course is required but not very comprehensive.

Our legislators are more intent on taking even more money out of the public education system and giving it to private charter schools who have no accountability.

[Garrett78]

41. And for a reason. Dems have to make public education and media reform top priorities.

Or nothing much will change.

[mcar]

42. Yes

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

43. Some are beyond saving

I grew up in rural Texas, so I know a bit about of what I speak. By circumstance or deliberate choice, some of these folks literally have nothing to show for their lives. Nothing to show for except how much they DON’T know about the world. And for some demented reason, they’re proud of being stupid.

And the fact that grinds the gears of more-educated folk, it gives them joy in their narrow, dark lives to inflict their misery and ignorance on others.

[Garrett78]

44. Yes, and that cycle will continue if we don't prioritize interrupting it.

The young are not lost causes. Public education and media reform don't require a constitutional amendment. They require a movement.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

45. One of the drivers is economic inequality

Economic inequality and/or lack of opportunities to move up the socio-economic ladder. That’s what drives a lot of that attitude although they’d never admit it. Make some effort to ease that, and then education would be more effective.