I do not think 2016 was a fair or legitimate election

[edhopper]

Last edited Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

and it remains my main fear for 2020.

Trump will lose the majority vote, and by a wider margin than last time.
But, I don't know how much he has to loose by to stop them from doing the same bullshit in enough States to give him the Presidency again.

As long as they can cheat in Florida and Ohio and North Carolina and Wisconsin, etc...they can take another one from us.

[Ohiogal]

1. I share your fear, Ed.

They got away with it before ... no doubt they’ll try it again.

[edhopper]

2. he lost by 3 million in 2016

I figure we need to beat him by at least 5 million this time to be sure.

[TwilightZone]

11. The overall numbers are irrelevant.

Where the numbers reside is all that matters. It doesn't matter how large the margin of victory is in the popular vote if he wins the same states again.

We tend to lose sight of that in all the talk of polls and approval ratings. National numbers don't matter.

[edhopper]

12. I expect cheating in those States

so overwhelming that with numbers is what I mean. I expect the bigger majority vote will be spread between States.

[exboyfil]

5. I tend to agree with you

I knew Clinton was in trouble when the final Des Moines Register poll came out (the results aligned with those numbers). I know who is voting for Trump at my work. Many are educated but single issue voters or totally buy into the demonization of the Democrats. Basically it doesn't matter because the Democrats are worse. Some of it is xenophobia and racism.

Many of these voters have Masters degrees. All have Bachelors degrees. 70% probably voted for Trump in 2016.

[edhopper]

9. Though

wasn't there heavy voter suppression too.

[edhopper]

13. Here is an article that says different

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/

Even though it might not have been the deciding factor, it's hard to say it didn't contribute.

[edhopper]

18. not disagreeing

but also not ignoring the ongoing GOP voter suppression.

[edhopper]

21. Very good point

I think that would make a good thread.

[edhopper]

23. Well FWIW

I think it's a good idea.

We also need more people like Eric Holder and Stacy Abrams who are fighting voter suppression.

[Midnightwalk]

30. Maybe try again

Even just getting information out about what those organizations are would be good. I like the proactive approach

[Garrett78]

14. Then again, the right wing 3rd party candidates got more votes than Stein.

The biggest problem was that hundreds of thousands of Obama voters simply didn't vote.

[exboyfil]

4. Karl Rove watching the 2012 Ohio returns

The button was not pushed because it would not have made a difference and there were just too many votes against Romney.

[edhopper]

8. Yes

That was so obvious. We know that is how they won the other years in Ohio.

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. It has to be a very wide margin.

Our best option, I think, is to maximize voter participation, so the numbers are so huge they can't be denied.

[Garrett78]

15. Sadly, we'll need to overcome foreign interference and voter suppression like never before.

[edhopper]

16. Exactly so

Suppression is one of the great ignored stories by the media.

[pecosbob]

19. I have come to expect vote tally irregularities in both Ohio and Florida as a matter of course

The Kochification of the upper midwest in recent decades should have prepared me for the same in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania but I must admit that it caught me by surprise in 2016.

[Skittles]

26. LOSE, not loose, and you are very much CORRECT

[edhopper]

28. Thanks

corrected

[dlk]

27. Voter suppression continues at accelerated rates

[kwolf68]

29. I do/don't agree

The bottom line is HRC did NOT win the electoral vote.

If they cheated, lets see proven evidence. If it exists, you can damn well be sure Hillary herself would have brought it to the fore. This was not Gore v Bush in 2000 where is was CLEAR an election was stolen and VP Gore begged out for "the good of the country" (which I wish he had not done).

Hillary conceded. She had nothing. Trump went to the "workers" and spoke "for them". Yep, all bullshit, but at the time it resonated. Hillary's "I am not Trump" campaign just didn't work. She stood for nothing. It was typical neoliberal corporate pablum that inspired, like...NO ONE.

If Hillary had resonated with the people (the way Obama did) she would have won by 5 million votes. SHE. DID. NOT. And until we figure that out we may run the risk of running another version of Hillary. THIS IS NOT a promotion of those "unrealistic" lefties like Liz or Bernie....but maybe JUST MAYBE the people want to hear us Democrats speak passionately about SOMETHING, ANY FUCKING thing. The Republicans do it. Yep, it's theocratic, right wing war mongering bullshit, but they are passionate about it. I am sorry its NOT moving the needle to be against the base of your own party and that's what politicians like Biden and Klobuchar are trying for. They are playing the "electable card". It's TOTAL nonsense. Hillary was completely electable, a brilliant women with a vast amount of public service experience. And she's married to a certifiable genius (in my view) who could whisper into her ear. WIN WIN. BUT, she LOST!!! How? Because she didn't ever sound like she was "fighting for" anything, in a world gone made I need my President to fight. It was idiot Donald Turd Trump who "sounded like" he was fighting for those who have gone bankrupt because of medical bills or saw their job outsourced to Asia for pennies on the dollar. TRUMP WON THOSE VOTERS. Which is the REAL tragedy of that election. And that's not Bernies fault and it's not election rigging, it's failed fucking politics.

I am voting for WHOEVER wins our nomination, whether that be Bernie or Joe or whoever. I DO NOT care. However, people like me will not win this election, I'm an easy sell. You have to win others. Who has the courage? People will respond to the politician they think is MOST AUTHENTIC. That's why Dolt 45 won, people bought his bullshit. But what if us Dems had a person who was TRULY authentic and spoke truth to power?

I think our party is at a crossroads, sell it out to the highest bidder or fight for those without power, privilege and voice. The moment we fail that ask I (who has NEVER missed an election) am begging out. The Democratic Party SHOULD NEVER EVER put war above the health of the American people. Yet, some of our officials sign off on every fucking war yet can't find a dime to provide health care to the citizens of our nation. It's your choice Dems, fight for what is right or watch this nation become a dying right wing theocracy.