Ominous warning from Seth Abramson: "Our democracy and rule of law is collapsing."

[triron]

Link to tweet

[kimbutgar]

1. He is correct our country is collapsing before our eyes and an insane man is destroying the

Rule of law and one of the politicial parties is ok with it because of tax cuts, theocracy and right wing judges.

I see the country splitting up shortly with the coasts pulling away from Washington. Never before has the law of the land been so ignored and made impotent.

I am really scared now. Everyday I try to think positive but it’s getting harder to believe we can fight back and take him and the repukes down.

[misanthrope]

5. "The coasts pulling away from Washington"

That won't include the Gulf Coast.

[roamer65]

10. CA, NY and New England will be the first to go.

NY and New England will become new provinces of the Canadian confederation. Great Lakes states will soon follow.

CA and possibly WA and OR will become an independent nation. Very possible Canada will split. Eastern and Western. Quebec leaving.

The remaining husk of the former USA will falter economically and become a shadow of what it once wa, due to the loss of transfer payments.

[triron]

11. Sounds like a plan. What about New Mexico and Colorado (and possibly part of Texas)?

Maybe they would join the west coast as well. Let the Christian right set up their monarchy in the southeast.

Perhaps add Philadelphia to the Canadian Federation.

[roamer65]

15. It's truly hard to predict. There is one BIG variable.

Northerly migration due to climate change and flooding. The southeast and southwest will be hit hard by one or the other or both.

[triron]

16. New Mexico and Colorado will definitely not be hit by flooding (except local from snowmelt).

They 4th and 1st (respectively) states in mean elevation.

[lunatica]

27. Why not just be returned to Mexico?

As a resident of New Mexico I’m fine with that.

[Alithea]

22. Secession wouldn't be so simple or peaceful. For starters, how would they divvy up the

existing stockpile of nukes?

[VOX]

24. Excellent question. Ironically, the U.S. assisted with this issue when the U.S.S.R collapsed...

Per Stanford University Engineering: Why the Soviet nuclear arsenal stayed secure as the nation collapsed. A professor of management science and engineering explains how cooperation between U.S. and Russian scientists helped prevent a post-Cold War catastrophe.
August 04, 2016
By Clifton B. Parker

https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/article/why-soviet-nuclear-arsenal-stayed-secure-nation-collapsed

[Alithea]

31. Fascinating article!

I had no idea. Thanks for posting! It's good to read something so uplifting in these grim political times. And thank god for scientists.

[a_blue_expat]

29. What makes you think Canada would want us

They would lose their own identity.

[roamer65]

54. Here is the reason.

If Quebec ever separates, it leaves Atlantic Canada isolated from Ontario and western Canada. A Province of New England and NY create a land bridge to Atlantic Canada, in spite of Quebec.

It would also give Canada one helluva GDP bump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macleans.ca/news/canada/is-it-time-for-canada-to-annex-blue-america/amp/

[pbmus]

2. I have been a proponent of inherent Contempt forever...

I get pushback...that we don’t have jail space or fines will not work or it would all take toooo long to happen...something has to give...

WE HAVE TO MAKE IT REAL, WE CANNOT ALLOW THE GASLIGHTING TO CONTINUE

The public has to see accountability for this corruption or all hell is gonna break loose.

And impeaching this scumbag by the House, and then giving him an it’s ok from the senate is tantamount to treasonous behavior by senators...

[triron]

3. Or Steny knows best.

[pangaia]

14. I hate to say this but 'the public' has no idea what is happening..

[pbmus]

30. Specifically no, generally yes

They know enough unless they are living in a cave in Kentucky...

And the longer the corruption continues without checks...the more embolden they feel to break there own laws...

There is not a good scenario if accountability is not introduced soon...

[I_UndergroundPanther]

53. Agree 100%

[dalton99a]

4. Kick

[FirstLight]

6. + a MILLION!

This needs to END...NOW.... there are so many who need to be removed from office. This is like gangrene and it is spreading more & more each day that ticks by.

I know the House has to do this the "right" way to preserve rule of law...but they need to do it FAST

[triron]

34. The House can;t remove Trump. The Senate has to do that (uf it's done through impeachment).

[Garrett78]

7. For many years, the Republican Party has worked tirelessly to undermine democratic institutions...

Last edited Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:11 AM - Edit history (1)

...including various departments within the federal government. And they blow up the debt so that Democratic administrations have their hands tied. And the cycle repeats.

They've taken it up a notch by colluding with foreign adversaries and by undermining the FBI and intelligence agencies.

Our problem is obviously much greater than Trump, but if this administration is not held accountable, we'll see a continued deterioration. If Trump is still in power after 1/20/21, I can't even imagine how much of a shithole country this will be.

[triron]

8. Kiss democracy bye bye..

[triron]

9. Not to be pedantic but shouldn't Seth use 'are' and not 'is'? Any grammar authorities here?

[FakeNoose]

12. America (singular) - is (singular)

He wrote this correctly as far as I can tell.

[Pacifist Patriot]

17. Yes, he should have.

"Our democracy and rule of law is collapsing."

Grammatically, should say: Our democracy and rule of law are collapsing.

Colloquially, it sounds fine either way.

And either way, we are seriously fucked.

[triron]

35. Yes the grammar is irrelevant isn't it.

[BigmanPigman]

13. I think it should be past tense...it has already collapsed.

[0rganism]

18. no surprise. this is what the end-of-the-line looks like.

if you let the house burn long enough, eventually the fire degrades important structural framework and the building collapses.

this decay will continue to spread, from the top down back into the fabric of society. the unresolved conflicts of decades past are going to be addressed now in the ugliest ways possible by the cruel idiots Trump has galvanized into a dystopian fascist movement.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

19. KR NT

[Pepsidog]

20. They are all feasting on corruption now.

[benld74]

21. I've got that gnawing feeling

In the pit of my stomach again.
Similar to the one the morning after the ‘16 election.
The manner which some individuals are NOT doing anything to stop this fool. It’s beyond me.
GOP are bought and paid for.
nt

[yaesu]

23. Our democracy has already collapsed, our rule of law has always favored the rich and powerful. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. Abramson knows what he's talking about.

Therefore, this makes me feel pretty damn worried.

[pnwest]

26. IF - the House sends articles of impeachment

over to the Senate, and McConnell somehow puts the kibosh on the whole thing, sweeping it and his crimes under the rug with tomfoolery and tricks - then America, democracy and the rule of law will have well and truly collapsed. America will be dead and gone.

I do take umbrage at his stating that “Americans don’t understand...”. I do, most of us here do. Only the sheep don’t understand, but somehow they are winning.

[Cosmocat]

33. It isn't "us"

the sad fact is that we are not even the half and half country people want to think we are.

our 1/3 somehow sees the stone cold obvious.
The right wing 1/3 somehow allows themselves to buy every last bit of bullshit the GOP/conservative propoganda machine spews.

The real problem is the "middle 1/3" that pays little attention, thinks "both sides of the same" but leans right more often than not because they scream the loudest and most often, and with simple minded tropes, while we drone on with fact and reality.

Sum total is that by and large americas don't understand.

[Garrett78]

37. That's where this comes into play:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212597559

[VOX]

28. There are now two distinctly different Americas, and neither one wants anything to do with the other

In the Republican Party’s “reality,” Trump has been anointed and delivered by god; he’s viewed as a profane yet heroic “imperfect vessel,” sent by god to free America from the scourge of “radical-red-socialists” bent on controlling every aspect of life, confiscating weapons, blah-blah-blah, etc.

The other reality— that of the Democratic reality— is fact-based, rule-of-law based, and it strategizes regarding measurable events that have actually occurred in time and space.

As long as entities like Fox “News” continue to belch out state propaganda, and Republican leaders speak/behave so cruelly and low-down toward Democrats (or anyone who doesn’t buy into Trumpism), neither side will tolerate the other.

The ideological gap is a chasm now, and it probably spells the end of this experiment in democracy. I just hope that fascist-Americans don’t murder any people in the process of separating out the opposing factions. Such a bloodletting will cause reprisals, and *that’s* the direction where this is all headed.

[smirkymonkey]

32. +1000

[Garrett78]

38. How do you envision this "process of separating" taking shape?

Do you think the US would split into 2 countries? More than 2?

How would it be determined which states are part of which country? Would there still be states, or would there just be 'blue' America and 'red' America? Would people be given relocation assistance?

[VOX]

41. If my thoughts seem unrealistic or hyperbolic, there's much to date that I DIDN'T "envision."

I knew full well that a Trump presidency would be terribly toxic and costly in terms of racism and xenophobia, judicial appointments, etc., but there is much I didn’t foresee:

-I didn’t envision 45 actually winning the presidency, but it happened (with some outside help).
-I didn’t envision the extent to which the Republican Party would eventually throw its full weight behind a dangerous, utterly corrupt con-man of questionable sanity.
-I didn’t envision the extent of Russian meddling, but it happened, and it continues.
-I didn’t envision the ho-hum, in-your-face visibility of lawbreaking in plain sight, but it’s happening.

Americans have been ideologically “weaponized” against one another, and thrown into a partisan divide like no other time, except perhaps the Civil War.

There are now chiseled-in-stone, hardline stances on issues from whch neither side will ever budge: climate change and the importance of science, immigration, gun safety legislation, women’s reproductive rights, quality healthcare, on and on.

How much longer will a majority of Americans be content to live under minority Republican rule, due to right-wing exploitation of the Electoral College and Senate apportionment (not to mention gerrymandering and voter suppression)? A citizen of Wyoming, the smallest state by population, has approximately 67 times the voting-power of a citizen in California, the largest state by population. And this particular disparity among the states is only increasing.
Example: population/representation/voting power in seven combined Republican states:
Alaska 737 thousand
Idaho 1.7 million
Montana 1.1 million
North Dakota 760 thousand
South Dakota, 882 thousand
Utah 3.2 million
Wyoming 578 thousand
TOTAL combined population: 9 million
TOTAL number of combined senators: 14
vs.
California, Democratic state, population: 40 million
TOTAL number of senators: 2

Where do things go from here? How much can one group take from the other? All of which is to say, I have no actual idea how an actual schism would unfold. But the situation (even if Trump’s gone) cannot continue in this matter. Our democracy can only withstand so much chaos.

[Garrett78]

42. Just to be clear, I wasn't being critical or snarky.

While I see separation as unlikely, I'm intrigued by the idea and wonder how proponents see it taking place.

[VOX]

44. Understood. Ironically, the U.S. helped the broken USSR secure its 39,000 nukes.

You’re absolutely correct, though— there would no doubt be countless complications in such a situation.

Thought this was of interest as to one BIG issue in a decentralized group of states in the old USSR:
https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/article/why-soviet-nuclear-arsenal-stayed-secure-nation-collapsed

[NCLefty]

36. If they do break America, they will say they had to for our own good.

And only they can now run things...

I guess that was Bannon's thing?

[Garrett78]

39. Bannon is a white nationalist, isolationist and traditionalist/anti-secularist.

I'm afraid both the AG and SoS are, as well.

[intheflow]

40. I could have told Seth this when McTurtle denied Obama his SCOTUS pick.

I mean, I'm glad he's finally catching on, but four years late to the game is disheartening.

[triron]

46. The media pushed things along for Putin.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

43. Why it was Impeachyesterday

[triron]

45. Yes. Congress evidently isn't there (Where Seth is) yet. Makes me wonder.

[dewsgirl]

51. I trust Pelosi, she is being methodical. She knows.

[triron]

55. Perhaps. Just seems otherwise to me. But I keep hoping.

[SuprstitionAintthWay]

47. I posted my own quick run-down of the fix we're in on another thread but it fits well here.

Last edited Sun Oct 20, 2019, 09:10 PM - Edit history (3)

We're living under a lawless, self-dealing, hostile foreign power-serving Chief Executive run amok, with an Executive Branch aiding, abetting, and protecting him, especially Barr at DoJ and Pompeo at State. Career civil service professionals are fired, stifled, denounced, demonized, persecuted, and stripped of their pension if they dare raise a reasoned or principled or ethical objection. The Cabinet, National Security Council, and WH Staff have been purged of any informed and responsible voices and replaced with craven sycophants. Federal law enforcement has been proven ineffectual, neutered, against him. Our intelligence agencies are dismissed, ignored, and their leadership gutted.

The Republican-controlled Senate refused to seat or even consider a moderate, eminently quailified, lawfully nominated justice for SCOTUS because it was by a Democratic president, and in fear of and supplication to Trump it refuses to enforce the Constitution in many other ways as well. The judiciary is newly crowded with rightwing judges, while Trump defies any and all Congressional subpoenas and oversight, determined to push every refusal big and small all the way to SCOTUS. Because there 5 Republicans await, including 2 he installed himself based on their support of near limitless power and complete immunity for the nation's chief executive... when it's a Republican, not a Democratic, president.

The pillars of our democracy are being shoved aside like a Montenegran president, when not captured and co-opted as cudgels for Trump's own use.

We're down to our last few defenses left.

- A free press, intrepidly staying the course even while under heavy continual verbal assault, and literally physically in danger.

- Impeachment by the House, also under around-the-clock verbal assault and threats (and memes) of violence.

- And the 2020 election, heavily stacked as it will be in favor of Republicans by the Electoral College, as intentionally suppressed as millions of Democratic voters will be, and as undermined as the whole thing will be, pushed in the direction of Trump, by enemies foreign and domestic.

American democracy is in one of its most perilous moments. Yes, it's shocking and frightening, to us and to the world, when the United States of America, of all nations, is looking very much at risk of being unable to protect its own democracy.

I've speculated Merkel, Macron, and Trudeau squelched the flagrant corruption of the G-7 being held on a Trump commercial property. Germany, France, and Canada probably just lent us a sympathetic and helpful hand against one new threat, however minor. No wonder that Trump the wannabe autocrat hates us having allies in Western Europe and Canada. They recognize him for what he is, and very much want to see America get through this.

[triron]

48. Thoughtful.

[Kid Berwyn]

49. Stand up, America.

Your freedom is at stake — and the future of our country and all our People.

[triron]

50. Problem is at least half the country is either asleep or in denial.

[donkeypoofed]

52. Seth isn't just pushing the alarm button, he's sitting on it

After this is over, some amendments need to be made to the Constitution and the Impeachment procedure. Oi vey.