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The difference between bribery and extortion: (Original Post) dixiegrrrrl Nov 2019 OP
A "lay" definition of extortion pat_k Nov 2019 #1
The word bribery is floating around now dixiegrrrrl Nov 2019 #5
As the article I came across discusses... pat_k Nov 2019 #7
"do what I want or else... moondust Nov 2019 #2
So when they say, I'm gonna break your kneecaps if you don't do what I want (extortion) flying_wahini Nov 2019 #3
Actually, I won't break your knee caps if you do what I say dixiegrrrrl Nov 2019 #6
add some complex evil to it ... Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2019 #4

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
1. A "lay" definition of extortion
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 12:49 AM
Nov 2019

I got curious and poked around. Apparently there is a bit of a legal debate about the difference between bribary and extortion, particularly as it applies to public officials. Specific statutes have somewhat different definitions.

As I poked around, I came across the following "lay" definition of "coercive extortion by a public official" in the THE THEORY, HISTORY, AND PRACTICE OF THE BRIBERY-EXTORTION DISTINCTION

Certainly seems to fit.

B. The Ordinary-Language Distinction Between
Bribery and Coercive Extortion
1. Refining the Lay Definitions

<snip>

In my view, coercive extortion by a public official is the seeking
or receiving of a corrupt benefit paid under an implicit or explicit
threat to give the payor worse than fair treatment or to make the
payor worse off than he is now or worse than he expects to be. The
payee is guilty of extortion; the payor is the victim of extortion.


In this case, the "corrupt benefit" to the payee (Trump) is mounting an investigation to smear a political rival. The threat is withholding aid expected under bill passed by Congress ("make the payor worse off than he is now or worse than he expects to be" )

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
5. The word bribery is floating around now
Sun Nov 10, 2019, 02:07 PM
Nov 2019

which is important because Article 2 explicitly addresses it:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

which sheds important light on the Ukraine deal now, 'cause Pence was involved, luckily, when trump sent him to personally lean on Zelensky.

Even more importantly, the definition of "civil officers of the united states" is:

all officers of the United States who hold their appointments under the national government, whether their duties are executive or judicial, in the highest or the lowest departments; of the government, with the exception of officers of the army and navy.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/civil+officer

However, it is noted that
a senator of the United States, it was decided, was not a civil officer, within the meaning of this clause in the constitution.


However #2.....Federal Judges and Supreme court judges, who are appointed, do seem to be included.

Think on the possibilities of that...................

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
7. As the article I came across discusses...
Thu Nov 14, 2019, 12:13 PM
Nov 2019

Extortion and bribery aren't as clearly differentiated as some may think. (Link to article)

Use of bribery for this kind of "quid pro quo" isn't off base.

moondust

(20,002 posts)
2. "do what I want or else...
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 01:25 AM
Nov 2019

...you don't get the aid you need to fight the war my boss is waging on you and many more of your people will die"

sounds like a threat to do harm = extortion

It's not an offer of, say, a new car in every garage.

flying_wahini

(6,640 posts)
3. So when they say, I'm gonna break your kneecaps if you don't do what I want (extortion)
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:16 AM
Nov 2019

Or I won’t break your knee caps if you do what I say . (Bribery) LOL!

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
6. Actually, I won't break your knee caps if you do what I say
Sun Nov 10, 2019, 03:18 PM
Nov 2019

is extortion too.....it is an implied threat.

Bribery is a win/win concept....I offer you money to do something for me....we both get a reward,
so to speak.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,397 posts)
4. add some complex evil to it ...
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 02:19 AM
Nov 2019

An arsonist keeps trying to burn down your house with your family in it.

Your neighbors give you a hose and turn on the water at their house.

A gangster kinks the hose and tells you he'll let the water through, if you do him a favor.

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