*****IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY HEARING THREAD 5**********

[crickets]

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. The GOP point of order interruptions will not achieve what they hope to achieve.

Keep at it nimrods.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

2. they want to be perceived as victims of an unfair process

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. That is exactly the perception they are trying to cultivate.

It will work with some people for certain.

[livetohike]

4. Agreed. They are confusing themselves with their

idiocy and how desperate they appear.

[hibbing]

3. obfuscate, distract, procedural issues

I'm doing my best to hang in there with this. I'm far from a lawyer, looks like they are fishing for sound bites to hammer over and over and over and then amplified by state television.

Peace

[uponit7771]

5. The KGOP lawyer is crashing and burning QUICK !!! He's horrible !!!

[bdamomma]

7. is that this

Castor guy???

[uponit7771]

10. yes, ... he's freakin horrible

[procon]

14. Who is that guy!

He's completely incompetent! He's asking leading questions that the witness would have no information on, he's getting nowhere.... Oh, wait... Maybe that's the whole purpose?

He can't really ask any witness a substantive question because in would further implicate Trump.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. it's painful to listen to him and hard to understand what he's saying

[uponit7771]

6. Taylor is smart and studied !! He knows about kGOP talking points more than most Commentators !!

[Mr. Sparkle]

8. This counsel guy is just fishing.

[crickets]

17. Correct.

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. He's drilling down to meaningless details to try to trip someone up on a minor point.

He can't go after the essential substance of the charge so he has to discredit witnesses on irrelevant matters.

[blogslut]

9. The GOP staffer is to trying to pin the Witnesses on departmental procedure

It is not working

[Ilsa]

11. GOP lawyer seems to be asking a lot of questions he may not know the answer to.

That seems like he's inviting an unpleasant surprise.

[crickets]

13. Rule #1: Don't ask the question if you don't know the answer.

This ferret is not getting the answers he wants. But then it's all just a sham reason to spout conspiracies. Ugh.

Correct?

[Ilsa]

18. That's what I was getting around to, but I didn't

know it was a real rule in cross-examination.

[crickets]

25. I don't know that it is formally, but any good attorney knows that surprise answers

are not good and can backfire. This guy is fishing, and trying to inject points without actually asking a question in places. He's lost, and I love Taylor's incredulous reactions. They are entirely appropriate.

[CapnSteve]

12. The GOP crew looks like a reference quide to male pattern baldness...

OK, juvenile of me, I know! God, their lawyer looks sleazy...have him and Mooones muted...

[Ilsa]

15. I know why Ukrainian officials were badmouthing trump in 2016.

They knew he was allied already with Putin, wanted for putin to get Crimea back. Why wouldn't they want Clinton to win?

[uponit7771]

22. +1

[Ilsa]

24. I suppose that gives them motive go interfere,

but they didn't, and there is no proof they did.

[renate]

61. exactly!

Not a gotcha question to anyone thinking logically.

[Ilsa]

94. And aid under Obama was "only blankets and food" because

the president of Ukraine, Poroshenko, at that time was corrupt, wasn't he? I believe he was a russian oligarch.

[crickets]

101. +1

[Midnightwalk]

21. Oh geez what a moron

Was the summary cryptic because it was written in Ukrainian? What an idiot.

[whttevrr]

26. DERP!

What an ass.

[Blaukraut]

23. Republicans working the 'Trump fighting Corruption' angle pretty hard n/t

[uponit7771]

28. +1, Except the two witnesses keep heading the KGOP lawyer off and he's not asking questions he has

... the answers to.

[uponit7771]

30. ... like the question about Hunter Biden

[AnotherMother4Peace]

29. Is that what they're doing? Sounds like they're making shit up. nt

[demmiblue]

27. Counsel looks constipated. n/t

[Blaukraut]

31. Ah, they're trying to turn this hearing into an indictment of Hunter Biden! Slick...n/t

[crickets]

32. Castor refers to Giuliani as "America's Mayor"

Oh, puh-leez.

[livetohike]

33. This questioning is pathetic. Amateurish. n/t

[hibbing]

34. I hate to say this, but Hunter Biden Hunter Biden Hunter Biden

It seems like they are getting what they want, a smear against Hunter Biden and Joe. Not dealing with the accusations against tiny hands at all.

Peace

[jimlup]

38. Only strategy they have left ...

is that false narrative. But their base will eat it up and believe it unto death. That is why we have to win in one year.

[uponit7771]

47. +1, their base didn't get Red Don elected last time and there are less of them this time ...

... their base did worse than 2012 rMoney in votes the reason why Clinton lost the 5 Red lead VSM states was the VERY VERY unusual over performance of 3rd party candidates and strange voting in Detroit were 40,000 people voted for state official but not a presidential candidate.

I'm sick of the commentary focusing on red dons base, they sucked in 2016 its just the VERY VERY strange overperformance of Stein and Johns that helped Trump.

[jimlup]

148. Yes

I too think Detroit was stolen. They didn't need to flip votes all they had to do was mix votes up and disallow enough votes and they did that. I'm pretty sure of it actually.

But if I share that publicly everyone I say it to thinks I'm insane. I know in my gut Detroit was stolen. I live in Ann Arbor and I've seen enough of Detroit to know how easy it would be for an interested party to disrupt the vote in Detroit.

[uponit7771]

149. Your trepidation is backed up with math, all 5 of those states she lost by 1%

[Bayard]

35. Now he's asking Biden questions

Which the Ambassadors have no clue about. He keeps making statements, then at the end saying--Agreed?

[nolabear]

37. Exactly. And honestly, it's just not compelling.

[nolabear]

36. They're doing so well not taking the bait. Sticking to facts.

This lawyer is trying to create narrative and they’re not helping. This is all falling very flat.

[crickets]

40. I love how they keep refusing to agree with him

by clearly stating they do not know about what he's saying, or drilling into the details that are pertinent but not necessarily helpful to the side points Castor is trying to inject. Both Kent and Taylor are doing a good job with this mess.

[nolabear]

42. And not entertaining the irrelevant smears. And being respectful.

The righties are the only people being smarmy and inuendo-filled. Everyone else is confident and professional.

[Midnightwalk]

45. Yeah. Do you know about the bidens

No not really. But don’t you know about. No.

Now we’re on could the side channel have been more outlandish. Yes it could have been.

Did you try get control of the channel. No because we were both saying we’re setting up a meeting.

Taylor clarifies problem is irregular channel started working against the normal channel

[BumRushDaShow]

39. His questioning completely off of any topic that is relevant

[nolabear]

43. It's a mistake. Nobody other than wonks will pay attention.

[crickets]

44. That's the point -

to quickly pivot from Trump's crimes to attempts to smear Hunter Biden. None of this is pertinent to withholding of funds from Ukraine. None. It's nauseating and if MSNBC's reaction to the first question session is any indication, I think they are going to get called on it HARD.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. That guy's job is to develop and justify the CT

as well as justify why there was a parallel foreign policy channel going on.

[BumRushDaShow]

41. Surprised their lawyer is now referencing the "irregular channel"

as if that is something normal.

[Bayard]

46. Taylor's voice reminds me of George Takei's

[BumRushDaShow]

48. This guy's line of questioning is idiotic

(and he even seems to think it is too)

[blaze]

51. I think he's fishing to trip him up on ANYthing... but

trying very hard not to appear to be attacking a solid, respected witness

[crickets]

52. I just love Taylor's facial reactions. He can't help but be incredulous at the silly questions. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

55. Yup

and I believe the same lawyer did questioning during the closed-door sessions.

[sop]

49. His goal is to mention Hunter Biden, Burisma and Ukrainian Corruption

in the same sentence as many times as possible. That's what will be on FOX News this evening.

[BumRushDaShow]

54. It gets too much into the weeds that the average person would tune out.

[elleng]

59. He didn't even FIND the weeds!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

60. ....

And Schiiff is now clarifying the actual "weeds" and the timeframe, which happened way before the Bidens were involved.

[elleng]

62. Yes indeed!

Adam Schiff can be relied on to find, name, and explore weeds, and any other noxious matters!!!

[crazytown]

96. Chair Schiff should bring a Weed Whacker to the next hearing,

A big loud one, in place of the hammer

[demmiblue]

53. Lol: Good point. Article 6, Section 2 of the Constitution clearly states that a President can't...

Good point. Article 6, Section 2 of the Constitution clearly states that a President can't be impeached for crimes that don't excite his third-favorite child

Link to tweet

[TlalocW]

64. Of course Eric is bored

He already knows all the dirt on his dad. This is like watching someone dryly summing up scene-by-scene a movie he's seen 20 times before.

TlalocW

[BumRushDaShow]

56. NOW the 5-minute committee members questions. Schiff starting.

[elleng]

57. NOW, 5 minute 'rounds,' segments, by members.

[BumRushDaShow]

58. schiff is clarifying the Burisma bullshit.

[crickets]

65. I wish they would use 'call memorandum' instead of 'call transcript' nt

[Midnightwalk]

63. Trump only cared about the Bidens

Not interested in any of the oligarchs or other matters. Only about the Biden’s

Schiff is doing good in his 5 minutes

[Miles Archer]

66. Ari Fleischer: "Whatever the GOP counsel is doing, it's not working"

George W. Bush’s former press secretary Ari Fleischer was mystified by the questions House Republicans posed to the first two public impeachment inquiry witnesses.

GOP lawmakers tasked Stephen Castor with questioning Bill Taylor, the acting ambassador to Ukraine, and George Kent, a State Department deputy who covers Ukraine, and the staunch Republican Fleischer wasn’t impressed.

“Whatever the GOP counsel is doing, it’s not working,” Fleischer tweeted. “I don’t undertand where he’s going.”

Taylor and Kent told lawmakers that Trump and his associates set up a separate diplomatic channel that appeared to be aimed at pressuring Ukraine to assist the president’s re-election campaign, but Castor’s questions focused on establishing a conspiracy theory the witnesses had already debunked.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/its-not-working-ari-fleischer-baffled-by-house-gop-questions-in-impeachment-inquiry/

[crickets]

69. They've lost Ari Fleischer in the first 45 minutes?

Wow.

[BumRushDaShow]

67. Nunes up. Mute for those who need to!

[BumRushDaShow]

68. Nunes made a statement and handed off to Gymsuit clown.

(who is new on this committee)

[Iwasthere]

73. Jacket off jim

Their going to regret putting him there

[elleng]

74. OH CRAP!

[Gothmog]

140. Remember that Jordan is too stupid to pass the bar exam

This idiot either did not take the bar exam or failed it. Gym Jordan is not a member of the bar

[BumRushDaShow]

142. It's pretty obvious too!

[uponit7771]

70. HERE HE GOES !!! Dah Dah Dum Dum dome do dah dah dome (Get low by lil Jon)

[Hermit-The-Prog]

71. why is Gym Jacketoff Jordan screeching on my tv?

[uponit7771]

72. TAKE JORDAN'S STATEMENTS AS QUESTIONS !!!

[shanti]

75. He's calling Taylor a liar

Putz!

[crickets]

86. I know! The lack of respect is appalling. nt

[bdamomma]

76. They are so

abrupt Gym Jordan.

[BumRushDaShow]

77. Jordan trying to argue that mob boss talk must always

be literal.

[phylny]

78. Gym is hysterical.

[Gothmog]

141. I am so happy that Gym is not a member of the bar

[BumRushDaShow]

79. Clown show and Taylor is like WTF?

[pangaia]

89. :) That smile on his face said it all

[pangaia]

80. Taylor's got Jordan.. watch that smile !

Jordan is a fucking, screeching fact- twisting bully just trying to intimidate taylor. Taylor won;t be intimidated.

Sombody needs to punch that shit bag in the face !!

GO TAYLOR !! SInk the fucker!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

81. Jim Hines (D-Connecticut) up now

[shanti]

93. MSNBC's breaking news banner

keeps covering the names of the speakers on the left! Thanks for the info.

[BumRushDaShow]

102. I am watching CSPAN3

and they put up a chyron with the name...

[Bayard]

82. Gaaa!

Jordan is obnoxious. Screeching as fast as possible, and not letting Taylor get out answers.

[Miles Archer]

83. Gym Jacket Off Jordan

David Corn
@DavidCornDC
.
@Jim_Jordan seems to be saying that because President Zelensky did not publicly state there was a linkage between the US military aide and the investigations that these conditions didn't exist. #impeachment

1:44 PM · Nov 13, 2019·Twitter Web App

Link to tweet

[elleng]

84. Thank GOODNESS, Mr. Himes!!!

[Midnightwalk]

85. Jagoff Jordan

Keeps asserting no linkage of investigation to security dollars. Finally asked a question

Third meeting with Johnson security dollars came up. But no linkage. So why why why

Because sondland told him that twice.

Read a complex phrase loudly and repetitively from sondland. Taylor gets answer right and says sondland confirmed there was a linkage.

[coeur_de_lion]

87. Jordan is talking as if the only knowledge Taylor could have of the bribe

was if Taylor was himself was participating in the shakedown.

He's talking as if Taylor should have brought up a public announcement to Zelensky when he met with him 3 different times.

Why the fuck would he do that?

He was not a participant in tRump's schemes.

[blogslut]

90. David Corn translates

Link to tweet

David Corn
@DavidCornDC

.@Jim_Jordan seems to be saying that because President Zelensky did not publicly state there was a linkage between the US military aide and the investigations that these conditions didn't exist. #impeachment

[coeur_de_lion]

95. because poor Zelensky did not cave in to the pressure

that makes Taylor's statements wrong.

Nope.

The pressure existed.

The withholding of the aid definitely happened.

Taylor himself had nothing to do with it.

[sop]

146. It was already established that Zelensky had scheduled an interview on CNN

to announce an investigation into Biden/Burisma/2016 elections, demonstrating he was caving to the pressure being placed on him by Trump's henchmen.

[coeur_de_lion]

147. This is the excuse they are using to say that tRump committed no crime

And I bet the Faux news lovers are eating it up.

[hibbing]

88. Jim Himes, coming in hot! I like it! n/t

[crickets]

99. He immediately pointed out how they are attacking the messengers

rather than bothering to defend the president's behavior. Kudos to him for that.

[Politicub]

91. The embarrassing jordansplain is going to be a turnoff to average people

Trump’s base will have a collective swoon over it, though. Glad his base is atrophying.

[BumRushDaShow]

92. Hime is smacking down the Ayn Rand Paul bullshit from his weekend Sun. show appearance

[budkin]

97. Here we go... Ratfucker....

This should be good.

[elleng]

100. ;-(

[BumRushDaShow]

98. Ratcliff up and

[madaboutharry]

103. Radcliff is just as dumb as Jordan.

President Zelensky was in no position to complain about his interactions with Trump.

That is what happens when you are desperate for money and military aid.

[BumRushDaShow]

104. Schiff cutting him off.

[livetohike]

106. Burnt toast. What an idiot. Ratcliff is exasperated.

This is not going well for him.

[BumRushDaShow]

108. Schiff cut him off and he huffed and puffed.

[BumRushDaShow]

105. Rep Terri Sewell (D) has yielded her time to Schiff

[BumRushDaShow]

107. Terri Sewell (D-AL) has taken back remaining time

[BumRushDaShow]

109. Sewell had them clarify 3 Amigos and Ghouliani role

[BumRushDaShow]

110. Michael Turner (R-OH) up

[elleng]

114. with innuendo to serve his 'master'

[BumRushDaShow]

120. He's another of the clown asses.

[BumRushDaShow]

111. Turner is coflating a court of law with this hearing.

[elleng]

116. badly

[crickets]

112. It's such a relief when time reverts back to Schiff & co.

The shouting and smearing stops and proceedings go back to a civilized tone and pace. The contrast is so jarring; it just underscores how little Republicans have aside from conspiracies, smears, and theatrics.

[helpmenow]

113. OMG These worthless, spineless FUCKTARDS

[budkin]

115. The GOP defense is LAUGHABLE

Bwahahahahaahahahahaa

[elleng]

119. but they're doing what their 'master' demands.

[BumRushDaShow]

117. Now back to Gymsuit flop sweat

[coeur_de_lion]

122. Gym thinks if he yells loud enough

he will be believed.

No, only thing that happens is the witness is offended and our ears hurt.

He is also asking the witness -- a fact witness -- can form an opinion about things he is not there to form opinions about.

Also -- just because Zelensky never got on TV to announce an investigation of Biden does not mean he wasn't asked to do so.

[TlalocW]

124. Unfortunately, doing just that helped Kavanaugh

Hopefully, it won't here.

TlalocW

[coeur_de_lion]

128. I can't listen anymore

Just can't handle the lies and obfuscation.

[BumRushDaShow]

118. Andr Carson (D-Indiana) yielded some time to Schiff

[BumRushDaShow]

121. Carson reclaiming time for his own questions.

[BumRushDaShow]

123. Carson bringing up Ghouliani's smear campaign on Faux Snooze against previous ambassador

[Tech]

125. These angry republicans used to irritate me. Now as soon as their voices raise I mute

the sound they are done talking. They don't seem to understand how closely many of us have been following everything.

[BumRushDaShow]

126. Brad Wenstrup (R-OH) up.

[BumRushDaShow]

127. Wenstrup yielding time to clown Ratcliff

[BumRushDaShow]

129. Jackie Speier (D-California) up

[backtoblue]

139. Kent: No one is above the law

[BumRushDaShow]

143. Yup!

[Mersky]

130. Don't forget to complain about the fois gras on your last yachting.

And otherwise, I challenge you to come down to reality, Ratcliffe.

[BumRushDaShow]

131. Speier - "We have not received one piece of paper from the State Dept."

[Miles Archer]

132. Bill Taylor fires back at Jim Jordan: 'I don't consider myself a star witness for anything'

Bill Taylor fires back at Jim Jordan: ‘I don’t consider myself a star witness for anything’



https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/bill-taylor-fires-back-at-jim-jordan-i-dont-consider-myself-a-star-witness-for-anything/

At the first public hearing on the impeachment of President Donald Trump, Jordan accused Taylor of being the “star witness” for Democratic lawmakers.

“I don’t consider myself a star witness for anything,” Taylor replied after Jordan’s time expired.

“They do!” Jordan erupted, motioning toward the Democratic Party’s side of the room.

“Please don’t interrupt the witness,” Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) cautioned.

“I was clear about that I am not here to take one side or another or to advocate any particular outcome, and let many restate that,” Taylor insisted. “And the main thing is that my understanding is only coming from people that I talked to.”

[crickets]

133. Okay, thread getting long again

so another has been started. Impeachment thread 6 is live here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212681960

[BumRushDaShow]

134. Speier - Maybe it is required to contribute to the President's PAC (in order to get a meeting)

Yielding time to Schiff.

[BumRushDaShow]

135. Chris Stewart (R-Utah) up

[Jim__]

136. Have the democrats made the point that the aid was only released when state department lawyers ...

... said Trump did not have the authority to withhold it?

I've only been watching intermittently and have seen republicans repeatedly say Zelinsky didn't do anything but the aid was released anyway. Therefore there was no requirement for Zelinsky to do anything. The democrats need to hammer back that this is essentially a lie.

[Richard D]

137. No

[klook]

138. Ratcliffe tried to make the point

that Zelensky didn’t do anything to get the aid.

Well, of COURSE he didn’t!!

• The aid was appropriated by Congress, and therefore shouldn’t require any further action by Ukraine.


• The demand was for action by the Ukrainian president to keep the Congressionally approved aid.

Of course, Ratcliffe knew that and was deliberately trying to confuse the public.

[nini]

144. Now it's Obama's fault?

LOL

They GOT NOTHING