Would someone please explain to me the details behind the comparison I have heard mentioned between

[triron]

The last Obama administration and initial Trump administration policies toward Ukraine. The comparison was not kind to
Obama. Sorry, I don't have more details but I believe it was mentioned in the opening remarks today. Wendy Sherman also
brought it up on 'The Last Word'.

[OhNo-Really]

1. CNN

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-ukraine-military-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F

[triron]

2. Wonder why this? (From CNN)

"The Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Kiev."

Obama failed to provide the javelins. Why?

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Javelins are deadly against tanks, but Ukrainian forces aren't positioned to use them...

so they will stay behind the lines.

Worse would be the Russians capture one and copy it, which they very will could do over there.

[OhNo-Really]

5. They shoot down helicopters too

[TreasonousBastard]

6. More reasons why we shouldn't send them around willy-nilly...

Something Obama understood because he listened to his experts.

[triron]

9. Why didn't Democrats point this out today? Oversight or what?

Public may see this as a plus for Trump.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Beats me. There was so much other bullshit to deal with it may just have been lost.

[OhNo-Really]

21. He was concerned Russia would reverse engineer the javelin

[mopinko]

4. here?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212683923

[triron]

7. OK, somewhat illuminating. Thanks.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212683923#post1

[lunatica]

8. Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine at the time.

[triron]

11. That was in 2014. That's also confusing. SO why didn't Obama then offer them after the invasion?

[lunatica]

14. He put sanctions on Russia which is far worse

Evidently President Obama didn’t want to escalate it into war.

https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2019/oct/25/matt-gaetz/matt-gaetz-says-obama-permanently-stopped-military/

At the time, Obama officials were debating whether to send lethal military equipment amid the conflict with Russia, particularly Javelin anti-tank missiles. Obama rejected a request from Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for lethal aid in 2014, though the White House approved a $53 million aid package that included vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance.

U.S. officials were concerned that providing the Javelins to Ukraine would escalate their conflict with Russia. Key allies, including Germany, were not keen on sending weapons into the conflict zone, said Michael Kofman, an expert on Russia and senior research scientist at the CNA Corporation.

Between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.

Under Obama, the federal government started the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which sent other kinds of U.S. military equipment to the country. From 2016 to 2019, Congress appropriated $850 million.

[moondust]

10. Not to forget

there were peace talks held and ceasefires signed at least in 2014 and 2015, possibly more, but I don't know how much actual peace resulted. Maybe somebody from the Obama administration needs to explain their involvement or lack thereof in the peace process and delivery of arms.

More info:
Minsk Protocol

[triron]

12. I would love to see that.

[OKNancy]

15. In a nutshell: Ukraine was in the hands of crooked Russian sycophants

and Obama didn't want to give the crooks arms.

[JonLP24]

16. Obama didn't give lethal aid but other kind of aid

When Russia annexed Crimea they sanctioned Russia they ally with the pro west side of Ukraine. The Obama administration with Biden pressured Ukraine to fire a prosecutor along with other Western nations because she was soft on corruption.

---

At the time, Obama officials were debating whether to send lethal military equipment amid the conflict with Russia, particularly Javelin anti-tank missiles. Obama rejected a request from Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for lethal aid in 2014, though the White House approved a $53 million aid package that included vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance.

U.S. officials were concerned that providing the Javelins to Ukraine would escalate their conflict with Russia. Key allies, including Germany, were not keen on sending weapons into the conflict zone, said Michael Kofman, an expert on Russia and senior research scientist at the CNA Corporation.

Between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.

Under Obama, the federal government started the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which sent other kinds of U.S. military equipment to the country. From 2016 to 2019, Congress appropriated $850 million.

In the last year of the Obama administration, Congress authorized lethal aid, but it didn’t include the Javelins.

The 2016 National Defense Authorization Act, which became law in November 2015, called for "lethal assistance such as anti-armor weapon systems, mortars, crew-served weapons and ammunition, grenade launchers and ammunition, and small arms and ammunition."

The legislation also called for counter-artillery radars, unmanned aerial tactical surveillance systems and other equipment.

But experts told us that the equipment ultimately provided during Obama’s tenure was non-lethal aid.

"The first lethal deliveries came from Trump," said Jim Townsend, deputy assistant secretary of defense for European and NATO Policy during the Obama administration.

https://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2019/oct/25/matt-gaetz/matt-gaetz-says-obama-permanently-stopped-military/

Trump seemingly under Russia's direction isn't interested in Ukraine corruption but wants help with the 2020 election by withholding aid on condition they investigate a domestic political opponent and make it public plus you have Giuliani running this unusual shadow foreign policy in regard to Ukraine. I'd look look up Giuliani Ukraine.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

17. consider also that Putin would love an escalation as an excuse

[JonLP24]

18. I agree

[BuffaloJackalope]

19. After reading all the replies: Who would've thunk that foreign policy could be so COMPLICATED?

[triron]

20. I think someone should be talking to Hillary Clinton. Bet she knows a bit about this.