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rpannier

(24,329 posts)
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:37 AM Nov 2019

What Trump learned that he was probably warned about and ignored (Bolton)

I know a few people who have met John Bolton personally, and one of them described the meeting as staring into the abyss and having the abyss stare back at you. Almost everyone who has met him for the first time over the past dozen years or so will wow you with a variety of unflattering and chilling adjectives; he is amoral, soulless, pitiless, driven, Machiavellian, etc. To John Bolton, the end is the only thing that matters, everything in between is the mess you look back upon that got it accomplished.
Words that you will never hear people say to describe Bolton include lazy, unprepared, forgiving, or weak. He is so driven, he is as prepared as possible for every meeting, he has analyzed every possible scenario in a plan and is prepared to go to the mat to defend his position. He is a long-term thinker; if he gives on an issue, it is likely because he sees a pay-off down the road by compromising. If you want to know how horrible a person he is, consider this, two of his closest supporters have been the Mercers.

Trump, is the exact opposite of Bolton. Trump is stupid, he is unprepared, he is lazy and he is unable to see the prize in the bottom of a box of cereal, much less the prize in a complicated foreign or military policy. Trump sees one answer and goes with it, and that answer is almost always the simplest one and the wrong one. Bolton pours through details, Trump thinks details are someone with an accent talking about the back appendages of animals.
It is likely that Bolton kept thorough records of everything that he saw in the Trump administration; a man of his paranoia and work ethic would not be trusting of someone who has a history of screwing over anyone and everyone because he thinks he's so damned smart. It is also likely that the circus elephant sweepers working in the maladministration are mulling what proof Bolton has about them, as well as their boss.

This is not about Bolton being a hero of liberals, as Politico seemed to get in their head in an article a few weeks back. Only a fool and the so-called political insiders of media would think that the left has fallen in love with John Bolton. The vast majority of liberals will tell you he is a neo-conservative, Reagan worshiping, war mongering, amoral, pitiless, self-centered jerk. But, he knows things and liberals want to know what he knows -- like any American who cares about good governance and rule-of-law should want.

To those who think they're clever with the "If he loves America and is so upset at what Trump is doing why hasn't he come forward?"
My reply is, "You don't understand Bolton." He is getting mileage out of this, both in terms of how much money his book will likely rake in, but more importantly, sweating people at the White House who are wondering what he'll say. He may also be sweating the Mercers as well. Unlike Bannon's exit from the White House, where the Rebekkah Mercer made it clear she and her father were backing trump, nothing from them on this that I have seen.
It's likely if you asked Bolton why he hasn't come forward, his answer would be, "Why?" As in, what do I owe you or anyone else?

Trump invited the vampire into his home. He kicked him to the curb and tried to gain machismo mileage out of Bolton being gone. But he's now learning what happens when you cross an ideologue, who is smart, ruthless, and believes in vengeance.

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What Trump learned that he was probably warned about and ignored (Bolton) (Original Post) rpannier Nov 2019 OP
I've written before about having to professionally interview Cheney in between Congress & VP years hlthe2b Nov 2019 #1
Profound malaise Nov 2019 #2
Thanks. It's appreciated rpannier Nov 2019 #7
"Trump invited the vampire into his home" Princess Turandot Nov 2019 #3
Excellent description of BlueMTexpat Nov 2019 #4
If I could have correctly remembered the quote about Bolton I would have used it rpannier Nov 2019 #6
trump is careless? Or impulsive? About 'kicking people to the curb'. empedocles Nov 2019 #5
"...the enemy of my enemy..." ewagner Nov 2019 #8
+1000 rpannier Nov 2019 #9
Agree... ewagner Nov 2019 #27
K&R 2naSalit Nov 2019 #10
Why has Bolton never run for office? Buckeyeblue Nov 2019 #11
I don't think Bolton has the personality to shake hands rpannier Nov 2019 #13
I +1 to your OP and I'm going to +1 this reply, too. Rainbow Droid Nov 2019 #18
A conceit of those like Bolton is that... reACTIONary Nov 2019 #22
John Bolton is Machiavelli's incarnation of his perfect prince, cunning and ruthless. olegramps Nov 2019 #12
He also is providing himself cover as a "conservative" Cosmocat Nov 2019 #14
Yeah I can't stand Bolton Takket Nov 2019 #16
Thinking of the frog and the scorpion Maeve Nov 2019 #15
Vengeance is mine ggmac0427 Nov 2019 #17
"Maladministration" Perfect! maddiemom Nov 2019 #19
You are correct, Bolton is simply evil... paleotn Nov 2019 #20
The far too numerous sociopaths of this administration have outworn their welcome, Bolton among them crickets Nov 2019 #21
Well written! ismnotwasm Nov 2019 #23
Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146.... reACTIONary Nov 2019 #24
It's like a struggle for power in a crime family. Who's already sleeping with the fishes? struggle4progress Nov 2019 #25
One thing you missed Buzz cook Nov 2019 #26

hlthe2b

(102,292 posts)
1. I've written before about having to professionally interview Cheney in between Congress & VP years
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:50 AM
Nov 2019

A lot of what you have written apply to him and my hair-raising experience with him as well. I'd not like to be in the presence of either one ever again.

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
4. Excellent description of
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:08 AM
Nov 2019

Bolton! I had my own personal, albeit vicarious, experience with him in 1982.

I will never forget nor forgive it. But that experience is one reason why my final career incarnation was as an attorney.

Perhaps I should thank him.

Nah!


rpannier

(24,329 posts)
6. If I could have correctly remembered the quote about Bolton I would have used it
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:38 AM
Nov 2019

It was something like, "Talking to Bolton is like staring into the abyss and the abyss staring back with dark empty eyes wielding a razor sharp sword ready to decapitate you at first opportunity."
That wasn't the exact quote so I opted not to use it

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
5. trump is careless? Or impulsive? About 'kicking people to the curb'.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:37 AM
Nov 2019

Seems risky, ala M. Cohen, who we have not heard the last of, it would seem.

ewagner

(18,964 posts)
8. "...the enemy of my enemy..."
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:34 AM
Nov 2019

I don't know where the meme originated but in this case I think it applies...with an appropriate caveat.

As long as Bolton focuses his evil traits squarely upon Trump, he's useful...but we should remind ourselves that it's like playing with a rattlesnake...exciting, fascinating, but dangerous as hell...

the enemy of my enemy is my friend....until he isn't.

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
11. Why has Bolton never run for office?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:55 AM
Nov 2019

It seems like someone like him would want to be in charge. Unless the social aspect of what you need to do to run for office and raise money is not appealing to him.

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
13. I don't think Bolton has the personality to shake hands
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:03 AM
Nov 2019

and kiss babies. He's likely to certain of his own rightness and too self-aware of how his ideas play to the broader public.
Like many cut throats in history, he may prefer to plot and scheme behind the throne

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
22. A conceit of those like Bolton is that...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:21 AM
Nov 2019

.... real power an influence lies with the ideologues who "guide history" from behind the scenes and from the sidelines.

And there may be some truth to that.

Cosmocat

(14,565 posts)
14. He also is providing himself cover as a "conservative"
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:08 AM
Nov 2019

he can't come out and appear to willingly put a knife into 45 backs in congress or he will get "black listed."

Has to have the supeona to have the excuse that he was forced to do it.

That said, completely agree, he is not "good guy" but I was struck by how bad of a mix he and idiot would be when he brought him on board. Bolton is NOT some servile flunky like Mulvaney or most of the others 45 has brought in since his initial admin.

Takket

(21,577 posts)
16. Yeah I can't stand Bolton
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:16 AM
Nov 2019

But if he wants to send drumpf to prison because he was screwed over and “payback is a bitch”, have at it my man!

He is certainly not a “hero” to anyone on the left.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)
15. Thinking of the frog and the scorpion
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:14 AM
Nov 2019

Only it sounds like this scorpion will wait until he can jump to land before killing the frog...but he WILL kill the frog eventually.

paleotn

(17,931 posts)
20. You are correct, Bolton is simply evil...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Nov 2019

That must be understood up front. But he's also not stupid enough to risk getting involved in some amateur hour scheme cooked up by dumb, dumber and the entourage.

crickets

(25,981 posts)
21. The far too numerous sociopaths of this administration have outworn their welcome, Bolton among them
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:03 AM
Nov 2019

K&R

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
24. Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146....
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:35 AM
Nov 2019

Anyone who fights with monsters should make sure that he does not in the process become a monster himself. And when you look for a long time into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

struggle4progress

(118,295 posts)
25. It's like a struggle for power in a crime family. Who's already sleeping with the fishes?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:13 PM
Nov 2019

Who's getting whacked next? Are any of them the snitch who went singing to the cops?

Johnny the Walrus probably does know some stuff that could help shut the family down. Unfortunately Johnny just really isn't a good candidate for the Federal Witness Protection program, partly because Johnny habitually paints criminal conspiracies as innocent social activities, and partly because Johnny is a self-important blowhard who will never admit to anything that he thinks might make himself look bad

Buzz cook

(2,472 posts)
26. One thing you missed
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:38 PM
Nov 2019

Bolton is a rage head just as Trump is. There are many stories about him screaming at people he disagrees with. Even chasing people down, pounding on hotel doors so he could yell at them some more.

It is possible Bolton will give evidence just to get even with Trump on a personal level.

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