Downed Ukraine Airplane Poll

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Iran shot it down by accident
	17 (57%)
	Other explanation
	13 (43%)
	4 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[gopiscrap]

1. US shot it down on accident

[mopinko]

4. yeah, i voted iran did, but it could have been us. main point- it was shot down.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. The timing is suspicious.

[onenote]

10. Where did our missile originate?

[sarisataka]

11. How?

And if you claim a missile, where did it come from?

[cwydro]

12. Excellent question.

[sarisataka]

25. A question I believe

Is going to go forever with no answer...

[Pachamama]

34. We could launch a missile from our Navy as well as from Iraq

It is very possible that as soon as missiles started flying from Iran towards Iraq that a missile was sent and targeted what might accidentally have been thought to be a military aircraft or threat.

[sarisataka]

35. Not impossible but very implausible

There has been no evidence or statements that we fired at the incoming missiles so at this point we can eliminate a miss that continued on and struck the plane. I believe the timeline would also work against that scenario as the plane came down long after the Iranian missiles were fired.

A launch from the Persian Gulf can also be ruled out. While the navy does have a SAM that can travel the 500+ miles to Tehran it would have to have been fired about as the plane was lifting off. Not every ship is equipped with those missiles and Iran has said nothing about detecting a launch from the Gulf that traversed most of the country.

Tehran is 300 miles from the Iraqi border. We know the peak altitude of the aircraft was 8000 ft. At that altitude the radar horizon is about 126 miles, so radar in Iraq would not have been able to see the aircraft. Also the maximum range of the Patriot missile is about 100 miles. So in order for an Iraqi based US missile to have shot down the plane we would have to have moved a Patriot battery at least 200 miles into Iran, fired on the plane and then moved it back out, all undetected by Iran.

I believe the US can safely be ruled out in this case.

[Pachamama]

36. I answered your question - meanwhile sounds like I was 1/2 right

It was likely shot down by a missile - now its a question of who did

[sarisataka]

37. A missile was always the most likely "how"

Iran is the most likely "who"

[Pachamama]

38. Anti-aircraft artillery isn't a missile

Right?

And you never specified an unguided versus a guided missile....could have been a rocket shot off at time too from another source

[jayfish]

43. You Should Just Stop.

sarisataka isn't going to say it but I will. You sound foolish. You were give enough technical data to understand that this would be an impossibility (my words). A better conspiracy was that it was a sea-launched AAM from Russia's Caspian Flotilla.

[Pachamama]

49. I won't stop

Sarisataka asked a question and I answered and I asked another valid question....

No one asked you to insult me and call me foolish.

And it could have been anti-aircraft artillery or a rocket sent from elsewhere. I have the right to ask questions and have a discussion without someone deciding to jump in and insult. If you have knowledge and wish to enlighten and educate and have a discussion without insults, that would be a valid thing to do and be part of the environment that DU is. But deciding to insult me is not ok.

[sarisataka]

51. AAA is not a missile

I never specified anything in my original question.

if you claim a missile, where did it come from?

I do not know of any weapons that use unguided rockets on an AA role.

It could possibly have been a rocket fired from elsewhere towards Iraq and the plane struck it. The odds of that are greater than a collision with a meteor, but not much greater.

[UniteFightBack]

19. Wouldn't Iran be more than happy to hand over those black boxes though? nt

[flotsam]

40. Iran and the US are nearly at war

and you don't let your enemy judge innocence or guilt.

[UniteFightBack]

52. They don't have to hand them over to us. nt

[jayfish]

47. That's The Only Thing About This I Don't Quite Get.

Why not just admit the mistake, begin the process of making it up to the families and be done with it?

[Pachamama]

26. +1000

Yes, that thought occurred to me too

[sarisataka]

32. Perhaps you would

Answer the question in post 11.

I have no doubt in the ability of the US to mistakenly shoot down an airliner, it has happened before. What I cannot comprehend is how that feat could take place over Tehran.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

2. Not enough information, but...

...if I wanted to mess with the US' head, I'd do something that involved Ukraine (the crux of the impeachment hearings (our perspective)/the crux of the Biden/Burisma scandal (the Crazytown perspective) and Boeing (a major employer and defense contractor that is already having questions asked over the 737).

[LakeArenal]

3. Don't pretend to know.

[abqtommy]

6. I only saw one news article, out of many, that identified the downed aircraft as a Boeing 737...

...'nuff said.

[maxsolomon]

7. 737-800, not a 737-Max. Big difference.

There are 1,000s in service, so what are you insinuating?

Should all 737s of any stripe be grounded?

[abqtommy]

9. It might not be a bad idea.

[maxsolomon]

14. That would cripple air travel worldwide.

Over 7,000 have been built.

[cwydro]

13. It wasn't a Max. 737's are flying all over the world all the time.

Popular and safe aircraft.

[Leith]

8. There's not enough information yet

to form an opinion on what happened.

[Codeine]

15. It's silly to speculate.

Nobody at this level knows anything about it. Pretending we do is absurd.

[Andy823]

16. I couldn't agree more.

Let the investigators do their job.

[cwydro]

20. Oh, but we have experts here, doncha know.

I was told just that earlier.

[dware]

28. I know.

We have experts here who are claiming that it was a US shootdown, without any proof at all.

[BuffaloJackalope]

17. The only people I've seen pushing the "Iran shot it down" meme are RW MAGAheads

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. It's conceivable they shot it down by accident.

It's well outside the realm of possibility they did it on purpose. There were Iranians on the plane and it would unite the world against them.

[Bonx]

41. And all of the US sources and mainstream media.

But conspiracy theories are more fun.

[BuffaloJackalope]

50. Note that that was yesterday.

Making accusations with no evidence is still making accusations with no evidence. Even Malcolm Nance was saying it was an accident yesterday.

[cwydro]

21. Cuomo had David Soucie (author of Why Planes Crash) on his show tonight.

He said he sees no evidence of a shoot down.

[lostnfound]

22. Rachel had an NTSB investigator who said does not look like any mechanical failure

Nothing like any airplane mechanical failure. Fireball too big and sudden.

[moondust]

23. Iran not releasing black box.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/08/iran-says-it-will-not-give-black-box-from-crashed-airliner-to-boeing

Hiding something?

Also, if U.S. intel was monitoring the Iranian missile launches then they might have some tracking info from the skies over Tehran at roughly the same time.

[dewsgirl]

30. Isn't Boening a US owned company? Could be why they won't release

it.

[arthritisR_US]

44. Seriously, why should world authorities trust

the Iranians or the “United” States?

[not_the_one]

24. Who hates Ukraine?

Putin

[Farmer-Rick]

29. We have a winner

Iran shot it down for Russian mobster shorty Putin.

Iran had to prove their loyalty to Putin for his protection from, and influence over, Traitor Trump.

[kentuck]

27. I think there are Iraqi agents working in Iran.

Working for who-knows-who?

But it is possible they got word of the missiles going to be fired and relayed that message thru their channels?

[stillcool]

31. don't know....

way too many actors. Whatever our government says, I will assume it to be not true.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

33. Many possibilities / we're not experts / no data available.....but....

One possibility I don't see being discussed much is an on-board bomb something like the one that brought Pan Am 103 down.

Considering the massively complex political situation throughout the Middle East and between Ukraine and Russia, and a very tense relationship between the U.S. and half the damned planet, one could imagine hundreds of scenarios beginning with outright failure of the aircraft (fuel system explosion, etc.). That said, we may never know the full truth about a cause.

This one reminds me so much of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 from 2014 that is still in international courts, with lots of people wandering about the crash site that don't look like an official investigative group.

Regardless, it's really futile to speculate at this point other than for idle conversation....

[TheBlackAdder]

39. I think some idiot set the ABM system on automatic, and it went automatic.

[Backseat Driver]

48. Sort of like "Oops, sorry Iraqui General, that was just a draft letter (?)

[arthritisR_US]

42. I think Iran did it thinking it was a US fighter plane.

[Recursion]

45. The specificity of 8000 feet is pretty convincing for me

It entered a free fire window, and either a nervous operator or a system set on automatic fired.

[Backseat Driver]

46. Lots of other international reports I found interesting

https://www.unian.info/world/10754526-russia-sought-to-build-air-base-in-belarus-in-exchange-for-fighter-jets.html

https://belsat.eu/en/news/russia-to-supply-four-su-30sm-fighters-to-belarus-in-2019/

https://belsat.eu/en/news/minsk-and-kyiv-in-exchange-for-tehran-is-such-deal-possible-for-trump-and-putin/



https://www.unian.info/world/10823759-ps752-crash-ukrainian-experts-examining-boeing-wreckage-in-iran-say-fire-didn-t-start-from-engines.html



https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17136/su-30s-acted-as-infrared-heat-traps-for-putins-arrival-in-syria-aboard-a-tu-214pu