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Have your views on abortion changed? (Original Post) Dream Girl Jan 2020 OP
I have always believed it's not anyone's biz but... TruckFump Jan 2020 #1
I am 60 and was brought up in black evangelical Dream Girl Jan 2020 #2
I had RW John Bircher parents. TruckFump Jan 2020 #7
So many religious organizations treat women like StarryNite Jan 2020 #92
I think of the Mormon Church on the issue of over breeding. TruckFump Jan 2020 #95
Would you hold it against me that I believed Dream Girl Jan 2020 #8
Your view as to what happens to your body is your biz, not mine. TruckFump Jan 2020 #11
My response to your remark leftieNanner Jan 2020 #12
So it's not my business if my wife aborts our child? Doodley Jan 2020 #26
So why would you react like this? Demanding that it's "your business." TruckFump Jan 2020 #29
He probably thinks his wife should have to get his permission. nt. Mariana Jan 2020 #81
Yeah... TruckFump Jan 2020 #85
If your wife decides it's your business, then it's your business. nt. Mariana Jan 2020 #30
It would be a crappy marriage if my wife thought it was none of my business. Doodley Jan 2020 #43
IMO, it's a crappy marriage if you as a male thought it was your biz. TruckFump Jan 2020 #47
You know, I would tell my husband Mariana Jan 2020 #56
That's the way it should be. TruckFump Jan 2020 #65
Some people have crappy marriages. Mariana Jan 2020 #50
+ 1,000 EOM TruckFump Jan 2020 #66
Are you going to take on the risks of childbirth instead of her, including death? Lars39 Jan 2020 #80
Only if she has veto power over your healthcare as well. onecaliberal Jan 2020 #89
i will be 70 next month. my views have NEVER changed WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE !!! Always. trueblue2007 Jan 2020 #45
Same here - it's always been the choice of a woman with advice from her medical provider csziggy Jan 2020 #51
No, I believe the pregnant person gets to decide what happens. n/t phylny Jan 2020 #3
Same Here! It was reinforced when I studied the Bible--not one thing supports the "pro-life" views. TheBlackAdder Jan 2020 #113
I first thought the issue over seriously when I was in high school, Aristus Jan 2020 #4
My views have not changed at all. CaliforniaPeggy Jan 2020 #5
Yep. Me, too. Mrs. Overall Jan 2020 #20
Me, too, Peggy Ohiogal Jan 2020 #42
My views changed a long time rzemanfl Jan 2020 #6
Terminating a pregnancy is a personal matter. underthematrix Jan 2020 #9
My views have only changed in that I am even more Pro Choice now leftieNanner Jan 2020 #10
The man's choice was at the time of intercourse, IMO. TruckFump Jan 2020 #13
Precisely! leftieNanner Jan 2020 #15
So, Big Guy...you don't like condoms? TruckFump Jan 2020 #16
Oh, I vividly remember the day leftieNanner Jan 2020 #22
I hear ya...been there and done that! TruckFump Jan 2020 #24
THIS !!!! uponit7771 Jan 2020 #34
Thank you! EOM TruckFump Jan 2020 #44
Exactly. Ohiogal Jan 2020 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Mariana Jan 2020 #99
I used to think that safe abortions should be available for all who want them. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2020 #14
And so should leftieNanner Jan 2020 #18
A-fucking-men!!!!!! TruckFump Jan 2020 #21
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #31
This is not a reflection of reality, but a right wing talking point. marybourg Jan 2020 #37
Well, what about recreational abortions...kinda like a day at the spa! ret5hd Jan 2020 #48
Yeah, I love hospital stays. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2020 #72
Exactly how many young women do you personally know who sinkingfeeling Jan 2020 #58
I think this would be a rare young woman, so ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2020 #70
Do you think that hypothetical woman should be forced to give birth? nt. Mariana Jan 2020 #75
I was raised in an independent, fundamentalist baptist church OriginalGeek Jan 2020 #17
Our body Faux pas Jan 2020 #19
Once upon a time I thought I should have an opinion on abortion gratuitous Jan 2020 #23
yes... handmade34 Jan 2020 #25
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #36
Another right wing, misogynistic post. marybourg Jan 2020 #41
And if she is a teenager in the grasp of some older man like Epstein, how sinkingfeeling Jan 2020 #46
Right wing crap. Turin_C3PO Jan 2020 #55
You have made it abundantly clear... tonedevil Jan 2020 #67
seriously? handmade34 Jan 2020 #68
I don't believe in late term abortion, unless it's to save the dewsgirl Jan 2020 #27
That's why we now have LEGAL abortions. marybourg Jan 2020 #60
Late term abortions are the most medically necessary. Buzz cook Jan 2020 #141
Thank you, of course then. Also if it won't survive, my dewsgirl Jan 2020 #143
After reading a story in Saturday Evening Post aka-chmeee Jan 2020 #28
The right to abort at any time? Really? Doodley Jan 2020 #39
Yes, really. Turin_C3PO Jan 2020 #52
You should try reading post #64... tonedevil Jan 2020 #73
Yes. TruckFump Jan 2020 #74
No never. Between dr and woman. No one else. LakeArenal Jan 2020 #32
Nope. I've always had the stance of it being the woman's choice sakabatou Jan 2020 #33
66 year old female. SamKnause Jan 2020 #35
I've always believed it was totally a woman's decision and sinkingfeeling Jan 2020 #38
Late term maybe other than that I'm more resolved it's the women's choice uponit7771 Jan 2020 #40
Do you think that any woman wants a "late term" abortion? csziggy Jan 2020 #105
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #111
Really? Do you have any source for that assertion? nt csziggy Jan 2020 #112
Only if the alternative is unacceptable Blaukraut Jan 2020 #118
This too uponit7771 Jan 2020 #127
Please cite some facts for that assertion ChubbyStar Jan 2020 #125
Care to prove... tonedevil Jan 2020 #133
Nope - it's not up to me to tell a women what to with her body or reproductive choices jpak Jan 2020 #53
Age 72 and consistently pro-woman and therefore pro-choice. RobertDevereaux Jan 2020 #54
I am pro-choice, and pro-life. guillaumeb Jan 2020 #57
My body, my choice. MontanaMama Jan 2020 #59
NO. Policy-wise I've always thought government should stay out of it hlthe2b Jan 2020 #61
No. vsrazdem Jan 2020 #62
I lived through the era of illegal abortions. dhol82 Jan 2020 #63
the fear we will return to this... handmade34 Jan 2020 #84
If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one. Period. PoindexterOglethorpe Jan 2020 #64
I'm also 71 and you speak for me! TruckFump Jan 2020 #83
+1000. This has been my view since I was old enough to have one. meadowlander Jan 2020 #115
I changed as I left the church marlakay Jan 2020 #69
Were you in the Senate at that time? melman Jan 2020 #71
And why would that be? Dream Girl Jan 2020 #126
Why would what be? melman Jan 2020 #130
Why does that matter? George II Jan 2020 #136
Why does what matter? melman Jan 2020 #139
No. I'm pro-choice from first to last. Sugar Smack Jan 2020 #76
I'm a guy, so my views shouldn't matter NewJeffCT Jan 2020 #77
As a man I still have never had to get one. Botany Jan 2020 #78
Nope, not really Mersky Jan 2020 #79
All abortion is immoral except MY abortion. Ilsa Jan 2020 #82
Yes. Turin_C3PO Jan 2020 #86
I have had two abortions... sanatanadharma Jan 2020 #87
i was against it when I was young MFM008 Jan 2020 #88
I've had one. nocoincidences Jan 2020 #90
Raised Catholic and didn't know better until I was in high school. Now I support abortion on demand WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #91
The only part about abortion that is any of my business, then and now, is that it GemDigger Jan 2020 #93
No. I've always been firmly pro-choice... Wounded Bear Jan 2020 #94
No. I have always believed that if you don't like abortions WhiteTara Jan 2020 #96
I've always been pro choice, but I'd say I'm even more so Crunchy Frog Jan 2020 #97
It only happens in the fevered imaginations of anti-choicers Mariana Jan 2020 #138
I have always felt... abakan Jan 2020 #98
I am so happy to hear that you are in a reunion. StevieM Jan 2020 #120
I have always been strongly pro-choice ever since I became aware of the issue. smirkymonkey Jan 2020 #100
My only position in the matter is to support women in their choice. whttevrr Jan 2020 #101
No. I never have been in the position to make a decision for another person brokephibroke Jan 2020 #102
I am personally not in favor of abortion, but I also have no right to tell other people Blue_true Jan 2020 #103
NO! bluestarone Jan 2020 #104
Yes Tree-Hugger Jan 2020 #106
Not a bit shanti Jan 2020 #107
My views have not changed... nancy1942 Jan 2020 #108
As a 6th or 7th grader on a babysitting gig, I came across... SMC22307 Jan 2020 #109
Nope. Mine have always been the same, from late teens to now. ancianita Jan 2020 #110
When I first became politically aware the right wing was pushing late term abortion bans JonLP24 Jan 2020 #114
Nope. Abortion - safe and legal. Solly Mack Jan 2020 #116
One of my earliest memories tishaLA Jan 2020 #117
My personal views on abortion, marginally. My support for choice has been constant n/t Blaukraut Jan 2020 #119
I have always been the same mvd Jan 2020 #121
Ever since I formed an opinion about abortion I have been pro-choice. Politicub Jan 2020 #122
This message was self-deleted by its author maxsolomon Jan 2020 #123
Yes. KentuckyWoman Jan 2020 #124
Always pro-choice Freddie Jan 2020 #128
Same here TheFarseer Jan 2020 #129
No, not at all ellie Jan 2020 #131
no Skittles Jan 2020 #132
No. Should be available to any woman who wants it. Liberal In Texas Jan 2020 #134
Nope. In my 60's and have always been pro choice. nt Autumn Jan 2020 #135
No, but I notice that many others have Polybius Jan 2020 #137
At first I was ambivalent. Buzz cook Jan 2020 #140
I haven't changed my mind lunatica Jan 2020 #142
No LArider Jan 2020 #144

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
1. I have always believed it's not anyone's biz but...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 04:59 PM
Jan 2020

...the woman and her medical provider.

I am 71 years old and my views have NEVER changed or been any different than this.

 

Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)
2. I am 60 and was brought up in black evangelical
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:01 PM
Jan 2020

Tradition. My views have evolved. That’s what people do.

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
7. I had RW John Bircher parents.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

I learned at a young age that I did not want to be like them. I don't think I could get any more liberal on this subject. Glad you evolved. The current trend in Red States to treat women like birthing machines is beyond awful.

StarryNite

(9,458 posts)
92. So many religious organizations treat women like
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:35 PM
Jan 2020

breeding stock. It's disgusting! Then they have the audacity to point to other religions of the world and criticize them for their treatment of women. They couldn't get anymore hypocritical.

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
95. I think of the Mormon Church on the issue of over breeding.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:41 PM
Jan 2020

I had a close friend in HS, in fact my best friend. She met a Mormon guy and they got married and she got fully into that religion -- actually a cult more than a religion, IMO. She had 5 children and nearly died in her 40s with the last two -- twins.

What a waste of a good life. It was bow down and worship the male head of the family for her. He did not like me much...for the obvious reasons. I thought him to be abusive to my friend. He thought he was to be the god of his own world in another life. I thought him to be a POS.

 

Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)
8. Would you hold it against me that I believed
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

Abortion should be illegal? Would you consider it a positive or a negative that my views have changed over time?

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
11. Your view as to what happens to your body is your biz, not mine.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:08 PM
Jan 2020

I applaud you if you have come to see that everyone has a right to select medical care that best suits them. If you at any point chose to not have an abortion, that's your right and it's not my biz what you chose. If you believe that every woman has a right to make the choice that best suits her life, of course that is a positive in my POV.

leftieNanner

(15,137 posts)
12. My response to your remark
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:09 PM
Jan 2020

You may believe whatever you wish. But you should not be able to force your belief onto someone else.

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
29. So why would you react like this? Demanding that it's "your business."
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:30 PM
Jan 2020

How about discussing it and examining the circumstances instead of insisting it's your business?

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
85. Yeah...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:14 PM
Jan 2020

...use the credit cards, drive the car, buy something only for herself, cooking only what he chooses to have for meals, and, last but not least, as to pregnancies. Yep, it's HIS business. Groan...

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
47. IMO, it's a crappy marriage if you as a male thought it was your biz.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:41 PM
Jan 2020

NOT . YOUR . DECISION. Get it?

Mariana

(14,860 posts)
56. You know, I would tell my husband
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:46 PM
Jan 2020

but he knows the decision would be mine, and he wouldn't try to interfere with it, whatever it was.

Mariana

(14,860 posts)
50. Some people have crappy marriages.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:42 PM
Jan 2020

The women who are in said crappy marriages or relationships them shouldn't be compelled to tell their partners about their medical decisions.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
51. Same here - it's always been the choice of a woman with advice from her medical provider
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:43 PM
Jan 2020

If the woman decides to consult with the sperm donor, that is her choice.

I have never changed my mind on this and I am 67.

TheBlackAdder

(28,211 posts)
113. Same Here! It was reinforced when I studied the Bible--not one thing supports the "pro-life" views.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:32 PM
Jan 2020

.

There is not one thing in the Bible that substantiates the anti-abortion position, besides a few perversions of the two men fighting passages. Others try to justify it because God created the fetuses by blowing up earthen dirt into the womb, since the bronze-aged people didn't know how pregnancy happened. They claim that God knows their fate... the same God that kills babies, children, and pregnant women all of the time. Who is to say that the one God knows that the one in the womb wasn't destined to end in abortion too.

Most of the passages assign just a fine for the death of a fetus. And one set of passages allows a drug to induce abortion if the father proves the fetus is not his.

.

Aristus

(66,436 posts)
4. I first thought the issue over seriously when I was in high school,
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:03 PM
Jan 2020

and admit to having been indifferent, neither pro- nor anti-choice.

Some time in the intervening thirty-five years, I became strongly pro-choice. Easy for me; I'm a guy, and can't get pregnant. But it's important to me that men help women protect the right to choose.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,678 posts)
5. My views have not changed at all.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:04 PM
Jan 2020

It is up to the woman and anyone else she wants to have help from. PERIOD.

rzemanfl

(29,566 posts)
6. My views changed a long time
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:05 PM
Jan 2020

ago when an illegal attempted abortion nearly killed someone I cared about. I don’t
think pro-choice was a term back then but I have been ever since. Over 50 years.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
9. Terminating a pregnancy is a personal matter.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:07 PM
Jan 2020

People who vote for candidates who put babies in cages, take away funding for school lunches and healthcare, take away food stamps for poor, disabled and veteran families, allow corporations to pollute our air and water then those people believe in abortion.

leftieNanner

(15,137 posts)
10. My views have only changed in that I am even more Pro Choice now
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:07 PM
Jan 2020

It is nobody's business but the pregnant woman's and her physician.

My husband and I have had the discussion - he believes that the man who made her pregnant should have the ability to block the abortion if he wants the child. I say no. He can be a part of the conversation, but he does not have the right to insist that she carry the baby to term. I've borne two babies. No one should be forced to go through that.

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
13. The man's choice was at the time of intercourse, IMO.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:11 PM
Jan 2020

If he did not want a child, then he needed to take precautions at that time -- even if his female partner said she could not get pregnant. After the fact? Not his choice.

leftieNanner

(15,137 posts)
22. Oh, I vividly remember the day
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:16 PM
Jan 2020

when my husband got the "ALL CLEAR" from the urologist that his vasectomy was complete and effective.

Guys - you have no idea what kind of a difference getting a vasectomy will make on your sex life! Your partner will never worry about getting pregnant again!

TruckFump

(5,812 posts)
24. I hear ya...been there and done that!
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:17 PM
Jan 2020

Gads, to not be totally responsible for NOT getting pregnant -- what a relief!!!!

Ohiogal

(32,036 posts)
49. Exactly.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:42 PM
Jan 2020

And that’s exactly why people who say “adoption, not abortion “ are so wrong.

No woman should be forced to endure a pregnancy and a birth.

Response to leftieNanner (Reply #10)

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
14. I used to think that safe abortions should be available for all who want them.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:12 PM
Jan 2020

Now, I still think that, but think they should be covered by insurance, medicaid, V.A. They should be safe, and free.

leftieNanner

(15,137 posts)
18. And so should
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:14 PM
Jan 2020

contraception and comprehensive sex education. A youth who has been given accurate information and control over their own bodies and their choices, will make better decisions IMHO

Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #14)

marybourg

(12,633 posts)
37. This is not a reflection of reality, but a right wing talking point.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:36 PM
Jan 2020

No mentally competent woman forgoes birth control voluntarily, and subjects herself to repeated surgical or chemical procedures. You need to reflect on where you absorbed this idea.

ret5hd

(20,509 posts)
48. Well, what about recreational abortions...kinda like a day at the spa!
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:41 PM
Jan 2020

Hell, my scenario is as believable as yours! Don't scoff!

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
72. Yeah, I love hospital stays.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:00 PM
Jan 2020

The constant interruptions by the staff who wakes you up to ask you how well you're sleeping? You don't get that kind of service anywhere else. That, plus the food service, order at 7am, eat at 9.

sinkingfeeling

(51,469 posts)
58. Exactly how many young women do you personally know who
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:46 PM
Jan 2020

uses abortion as birth control? It is a painful and unpleasant experience. Stop buying crap from Fox.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,362 posts)
70. I think this would be a rare young woman, so ...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:58 PM
Jan 2020

... the expense would be negligible, statistically speaking.

Analogous to a MMA fighter who visits the hospitals frequently for sprains, broken bones, and concussions. A rarity.

So, yes, "free" (paid from the general pool of health money).

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
17. I was raised in an independent, fundamentalist baptist church
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:14 PM
Jan 2020

From the time I first heard of the procedure until I left home at 17 I was told I thought abortion was murder.

I left home because of what I progressively more and more perceived as bullshit coming from my mother and step-asshole and church and I am now a happy, healthy and very liberal atheist and the only worry I have about abortion is doing everything I can to keep it absolutely legal and easily available.

I was just talking about the upcoming elections with my 19 yo granddaughter the night before last and we both agreed that women's health is our number one issue. I will not compromise on it and will automatically exclude a presidential candidate that waffles on it even a little bit. Roe V Wade must be preserved and strengthened.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
23. Once upon a time I thought I should have an opinion on abortion
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:16 PM
Jan 2020

And, sure enough, I subscribed to an opinion that was quite suppressive and sexist. Over the years, I realized that as a man I really didn't have a knowledge or experience base to hold a valid opinion on abortion. I then pondered the fact that everyone - even women - had the right to live their lives as they saw fit, and that my input wasn't really needed for everyone else. I further thought about how to write a law that would cover every possible eventuality, and realized that there was no just way to do that; there would always be exceptions to any law, there would always be cruel unintended outcomes. It was best to leave this choice up to each individual, and work toward a society that would equip everyone with the community and support to live according to their own lights.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
25. yes...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:19 PM
Jan 2020

I have become even more militant in my righteous view that women need to control their own bodies...

my own experience, my studies, my witness of events, my understanding of history, human development and psychology, .. all of these color my hardened views...





Response to handmade34 (Reply #25)

sinkingfeeling

(51,469 posts)
46. And if she is a teenager in the grasp of some older man like Epstein, how
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:40 PM
Jan 2020

much control does she have of her body or life?

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
68. seriously?
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:55 PM
Jan 2020


this is the argument one uses who wants to punish women for liking and engaging in too much sex....

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
27. I don't believe in late term abortion, unless it's to save the
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:29 PM
Jan 2020

life of the mother. When I was a young teen, there was a girl named Becky Bell, HBO had a special about her, she couldn't tell her parents, she had an illegal abortion and died the next day. I could never admit to my father that I had sex, I felt just like I imagine that poor girl did. I am 43 now and that has stayed with me all these years.

marybourg

(12,633 posts)
60. That's why we now have LEGAL abortions.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:50 PM
Jan 2020

Don’t compare illegal back alley abortions to legal ones conducted in state of the art medical facilities. Late term abortions are only sought and conducted for serious reasons, although some may fall short of “the life of the mother”. It may be her long term health that’s at stake, or the agony of birthing a seriously defective infant who will live a short agonizing life.

Buzz cook

(2,474 posts)
141. Late term abortions are the most medically necessary.
Sat Jan 18, 2020, 02:46 AM
Jan 2020

The outrage over late term abortions was a political marketing gimmick. If you examin George Tillers work you will find how important late term abortions are.

The outrage over intact dilation and extraction was made up. IDC, wen it is used is the safest procedure for the woman. It is most frequently used when the fetus is nonviable or the pregnancy has become toxic, meaning the fetus is already dead.

aka-chmeee

(1,132 posts)
28. After reading a story in Saturday Evening Post
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:29 PM
Jan 2020

Circa 1962 (I was in Junior High School) I have been solidly behind a woman's right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason at any time and free of any obstructions raised by other individuals or groups related or not related.

LakeArenal

(28,835 posts)
32. No never. Between dr and woman. No one else.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:33 PM
Jan 2020

If “your” god doesn’t like it, let it smite sinners itself.

SamKnause

(13,108 posts)
35. 66 year old female.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:34 PM
Jan 2020

No, my view on abortion has not changed or evolved.

I have always been pro choice, pro birth control, pro sex education, and pro abortion.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
105. Do you think that any woman wants a "late term" abortion?
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:43 PM
Jan 2020

Every case I have read about has been a wanted pregnancy in which something went very wrong. Either the child would have been born severely damaged or with a very short and painful life span or the continued pregnancy endangered the woman or possibly a future pregnancy.

Much of what I have read was in articles about how the murder of Dr. Tiller affected the medical providers in that field:


The Assassination of Dr.Tiller: The Marginality of Abortion in American Culture and Medicine

C. Joffe and T. Weitz: Abortion After Tiller
Carole Joffe and Tracy Weitz ▪ November 10, 2009

<SNIP>

These abortions are commonly referred to as “late-term abortions,” a definition that is not part of the medical literature and that implies, by use of the word “term,” that the procedure is occurring at the very end of a pregnancy. The confusion is compounded by the fact that there is no consensus within the medical community as to precisely when the “viability” of a fetus is reached, and regulations governing the performing of later abortions vary not only from state to state, but from hospital to hospital.

In the case of Tiller, his later abortions consisted of two groups: abortions performed when the fetus was severely compromised, and abortions performed on a viable fetus to preserve the health or life of the pregnant woman. The women who came to Tiller for these later abortions were typically in the most harrowing of situations, carrying wanted pregnancies that had gone terribly wrong or with life-threatening conditions facing the women themselves. Some of these women had fetuses with heartbreaking anomalies that were discovered only later in pregnancy, such an anencephaly, a lethal birth defect in which most of the brain and parts of the skull are missing. Other women had themselves become very ill in the course of a pregnancy, such as the onset of cancer, which demanded a course of chemotherapy.

These later abortions called for specialized medical and counseling services, which Tiller pioneered. Unlike the outpatient services characteristic of the vast majority of earlier abortions, these later procedures took place over a several day period. Patients (and their partners) often stayed in local Wichita motels for up to a week. Women’s Health Services offered patients in-depth counseling as well as the opportunity for group counseling with other women and couples in similar situations.

Tiller himself was a deeply religious man and attending to the spiritual needs of his patients was a high priority. The clinic had a special “Quiet Room,” where patients could grieve after their abortions, sometimes holding the blanketed remains of their fetuses. The chaplain on the clinic’s staff helped interested patients choose among various options for baptisms, funerals, and burials.

More: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/the-assassination-of-dr-tiller-the-marginality-of-abortion-in-american-culture-and-medicine

Response to csziggy (Reply #105)

Blaukraut

(5,693 posts)
118. Only if the alternative is unacceptable
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:10 PM
Jan 2020

Such as viability of the baby, or life of mother. I can't imagine there is a woman on this planet who carries a baby for 7 months and then all of a sudden goes: "I'm over it. I'm going to have an abortion"

I gave birth to two children. One of them was not wanted and I almost had an abortion. But not at 7 months! By that time I made a choice to keep her.

jpak

(41,758 posts)
53. Nope - it's not up to me to tell a women what to with her body or reproductive choices
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:45 PM
Jan 2020

None
of
my
business

Nope

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
57. I am pro-choice, and pro-life.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:46 PM
Jan 2020

And being pro-life, I am a pacifist. War is not pro-life.

I believe in a living wage, not a minimum wage.

I believe that no one should go to bed hungry.

I am against capital punishment.

As to abortion, I am a male, and I never felt that it was my right to tell women what to do with their bodies.

MontanaMama

(23,334 posts)
59. My body, my choice.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:48 PM
Jan 2020

My folks raised me to believe that, despite us being Catholic. I believe it more fervently than ever. Especially now that my right to make decisions about my body are under imminent threat.

hlthe2b

(102,328 posts)
61. NO. Policy-wise I've always thought government should stay out of it
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:50 PM
Jan 2020

I also never felt the need to judge others who had experienced one, though I will never know if I would have done the same. I'm glad they had the choice.

On this and related issues, nonmedically trained lawmakers should NOT be developing policy that regulates medical procedures sans input from a consensus and broad group of relevant health care providers.

dhol82

(9,353 posts)
63. I lived through the era of illegal abortions.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:52 PM
Jan 2020

It was appalling.
The rich and/or connected could get a legal, safe abortion in a hospital.
The poor would have to go to some back alley sleaze.
My opinions have not changed. I know how important a woman’s right to choose can be.
Still remember sending a telegram (remember those?) to Governor Rockefeller when changing the law in New York State was coming up for discussion, urging him to do the right thing.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,873 posts)
64. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one. Period.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:52 PM
Jan 2020

And bringing up the horror of late term abortions or the myth of women having abortion after abortion rather than using birth control simply shows your ignorance.

Women do not, when eight and a half months pregnant go, "Dang! I knew there was something I intended to do" and sign up for an abortion. Nor do they forego preventing conception in the first place if they have any say in the matter. Late term abortions are invariably because either the pregnancy would endanger the life of the mother, or the baby isn't going to live very long anyway. And to those who would sanctimoniously give birth and then die themselves, or have the baby and watch it die, that's YOUR choice. Not anyone else's.

Every so often I'll read something by some woman who had an abortion and came to regret it deeply, and now believes no other woman should have one. Again, it's a highly personal choice and I'm sorry for the women who had regrets after, but in the end, a good 99% of women are grateful and relieved.

And if all those advocating adoption were out there adopting, I'd respect them a bit more, but that's almost never the case.

I have felt this way ever since I understood where babies came from, and I'm 71.

meadowlander

(4,399 posts)
115. +1000. This has been my view since I was old enough to have one.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:41 PM
Jan 2020

Not your body, not your business.

With an extra little dose of "fuck you" to people who oppose abortion and don't want to fund social services, daycare, food stamps or any other support for the obvious results of their meddling in other peoples' sex lives.

marlakay

(11,482 posts)
69. I changed as I left the church
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 05:58 PM
Jan 2020

In my late 30’s total pro choice now. I am 63. But what really changed me was someone close to me had one and I just couldn’t think of her as a murderer.

Botany

(70,552 posts)
78. As a man I still have never had to get one.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:08 PM
Jan 2020

BTW the only time my 2 cents are worth anything is if I was the father of the child. Outside of that
it is none of my business.

Mersky

(4,986 posts)
79. Nope, not really
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:10 PM
Jan 2020

Had awareness of the risks to a mother when my aunt was hospitalized after a couple of rough deliveries when I was a kid. Had a fairly medical perspective of pregnancy from an early age.

A few years later, I learned of abortion thereabouts at the same time I was cornered by a good friend with a file of anti abortion propaganda, and I just wasn’t buying what she was saying. We drifted apart after that exchange. I knew pregnancy and choice were more complicated than that. I’ve always been pro choice.

These days I like to say I’m for less death and fewer abortions and is why it needs to remain legal, safe, and reasonably available. My views are more complex than this regarding women’s rights and societies, but at least that line can lead to a more meaningful conversation about why banning abortion will not reduce abortion rates.

Otherwise, what’s been rather obvious to me for a long, long time is that if all else were the same, except that men birthed babies, then getting an abortion would be as easy as shopping at Sam’s Club.


Ilsa

(61,696 posts)
82. All abortion is immoral except MY abortion.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:11 PM
Jan 2020

Of course I don't believe that, but plenty do.

I've always been pro-choice.

Turin_C3PO

(14,022 posts)
86. Yes.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:15 PM
Jan 2020

Until I was 18, I parroted my parents’ views, which at the time were anti-choice (they’re pro choice now). But since then, I’ve become 100% pro-choice. It’s none of my damn business if a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy.

sanatanadharma

(3,714 posts)
87. I have had two abortions...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:17 PM
Jan 2020

... or rather was twice at clinics with women, with whom we conceived. During one, I sat outside the clinic meditating and watching the anti-woman demonstrators. I tell them that abortion saves souls from original sin and guarantees them heaven.

The aborted are advanced souls whose karmic slate is so clean, they need be embodied no more than a few months to erase the last of their incarnations.

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
88. i was against it when I was young
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:20 PM
Jan 2020

now im 61 i realize its nobody's business but the patient. period.

nocoincidences

(2,227 posts)
90. I've had one.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:26 PM
Jan 2020

I have always been very pro-abortion.

It is only the business of the one who is pregnant.

When you get pregnant, that becomes really clear.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,386 posts)
91. Raised Catholic and didn't know better until I was in high school. Now I support abortion on demand
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:29 PM
Jan 2020

and without apology.

Wounded Bear

(58,685 posts)
94. No. I've always been firmly pro-choice...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:40 PM
Jan 2020

and have lived in the Nunmybidness world.

One part of this I've always known is the wealth inequality of it. Rich women have ALWAYS had access to safe abortions. Poor women have not. In many ways, abortion is the ultimate test of whether one feels women should be equal and independent or not.

It's a woman's choice. That's how it should be. The only 'questions' should be answered between a woman and her doctor.

WhiteTara

(29,721 posts)
96. No. I have always believed that if you don't like abortions
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:41 PM
Jan 2020

don't have one.

If you don't gay lifestyles, don't live it.

Neither is any of my business. Live and let live.

Crunchy Frog

(26,610 posts)
97. I've always been pro choice, but I'd say I'm even more so
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:50 PM
Jan 2020

since having my twins.

I just can't imagine forcing someone to go through that against their will.

My sons were born prematurely at 33 1/2 weeks gestation, and I will say that I don't believe that I should have had an option to go in a week or two or three before then and get an abortion because I'd gotten cold feet about it. I don't think that actually happens though, except in the fevered imaginations of anti choicers.

Hope this post doesn't offend anyone.

Mariana

(14,860 posts)
138. It only happens in the fevered imaginations of anti-choicers
Sat Jan 18, 2020, 12:45 AM
Jan 2020

a few of whom have posted in this very thread.

abakan

(1,819 posts)
98. I have always felt...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 06:55 PM
Jan 2020

If it's not your body, it's none of your business.
I am 68 yrs old and when I was 17 I was in the position to make this choice.
I chose to carry the child and put him up for adoption. While I made the choice
that was best for me, while I concluded abortion was not right for me, I would
never presume my choice was the only choice for anyone else and I will fight for
their right to do what is best for their lives.

In 2018 my son found me through Ancestry DNA. I now have a family that loves me
and three of the most beautiful grand children.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
120. I am so happy to hear that you are in a reunion.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:25 PM
Jan 2020

Congratulation on reconnecting with your son and your grandchildren.

The Baby Scoop Era was such a terrible time. Many women only had one option--adoption. Abortion wasn't an easily available option for many. And single motherhood was made incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible.

The same people who want abortion to be illegal are the ones who heap scorn upon unmarried women who keep their babies. And if they ever overturn Roe vs. Wade it will get far worse. What they want is absolutely no sex outside of heterosexual marriage and for EVERY SINGLE CHILD born out of wedlock to be given up for adoption. In other words, they want a return to the Baby Scoop Era.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
100. I have always been strongly pro-choice ever since I became aware of the issue.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:01 PM
Jan 2020

My mother died in childbirth when I was two and a half so I know first hand what the risks can be. I know that most women don't die these days, but I believe that it is a private matter between a woman and her doctor and nobody needs to know or approve of her reasons but her.

brokephibroke

(1,883 posts)
102. No. I never have been in the position to make a decision for another person
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:08 PM
Jan 2020

nor to impose on free will. We all make our own choices.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
103. I am personally not in favor of abortion, but I also have no right to tell other people
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:11 PM
Jan 2020

what to do with their bodies.

Tree-Hugger

(3,370 posts)
106. Yes
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:46 PM
Jan 2020

I am 41. I went to Catholic school. My parents were not anti-abortion. I picked that up in Catholic school. I remember my mom, God rest her soul, arguing with me over the matter, but they ultimately gave me a lot of leeway as I developed my opinions on things. So, I remember being anti-abortion through my teen years as I went through Catholic school. Interestingly, I was liberal about everything else and my Catholic school pushed me further left (run by Franciscans). I wasn't militant and I didn't join any "right to life" activities.

After high school, I realized I was anti-abortion for myself and pro-choice for everyone else and then evolved from there.

nancy1942

(635 posts)
108. My views have not changed...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:52 PM
Jan 2020

I have always believed in a woman's right to choose. It should be a matter between herself and her doctor and no-one else. It is her body and it is her business.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
109. As a 6th or 7th grader on a babysitting gig, I came across...
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:53 PM
Jan 2020

a copy of Our Body, Ourselves and a photo of a woman, face down on the floor, who bled out from an illegal abortion.

My pro-choice views were shaped then and have not changed.

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
110. Nope. Mine have always been the same, from late teens to now.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 07:55 PM
Jan 2020

The only thing that's changed is how I argue for it.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
114. When I first became politically aware the right wing was pushing late term abortion bans
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:33 PM
Jan 2020

So I always knew arguments against choice were bullshit since at the time only 5 doctors performed the procedure and only when the woman's life was at risk.

So to answer your question my views never changed once I became politically active.

Solly Mack

(90,779 posts)
116. Nope. Abortion - safe and legal.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:48 PM
Jan 2020

Yesterday, today, and all the tomorrows.

Our body. Our voice. Our choice.

Why mythologize a fetus when you can empower a woman?

Unless your goal is to manipulate and control the woman, that is.




tishaLA

(14,176 posts)
117. One of my earliest memories
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 08:55 PM
Jan 2020

Is going to a huge pro choice rally in DC when I was 5, 6, or 7. Believing in reproductive freedom is absolutely central to my political beliefs.

mvd

(65,179 posts)
121. I have always been the same
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:39 PM
Jan 2020

Firmly pro-choice. I do not like abortion, but I don’t think many do. Most women use abortion when necessary, contrary to the right wing beliefs.

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
122. Ever since I formed an opinion about abortion I have been pro-choice.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:43 PM
Jan 2020

I can’t think of a single time when I wasn’t.

Response to Dream Girl (Original post)

KentuckyWoman

(6,690 posts)
124. Yes.
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 10:09 PM
Jan 2020

Prior to roe v wade I felt abortion was wrong but supported it being legal. I have never expected others to live by my morals.

In 1976 and again in 1979 I ended up in a situation where abortion saved my life. I wanted the child desperately but it was not to be.

Since that moment I realized right or wrong has zero to do with abortion. It is a medical procedure and that is all.

Freddie

(9,272 posts)
128. Always pro-choice
Fri Jan 17, 2020, 10:37 PM
Jan 2020

And even more so now that I have a daughter and 2 granddaughters. Or put another way: yes, I’m pro-life. Pro-woman’s-life.

Polybius

(15,465 posts)
137. No, but I notice that many others have
Sat Jan 18, 2020, 12:23 AM
Jan 2020

In 2020, it seems most people are either completely against it even in cases of rape or incest, or completely for it for any reason at all. It seems viewpoints in the middle are getting harder to find.

Buzz cook

(2,474 posts)
140. At first I was ambivalent.
Sat Jan 18, 2020, 02:27 AM
Jan 2020

I came of age in the early 70s and abortion wasn't as big a deal as it is now. Conservative groups such as the Southern Baptists had come out in favor of Roe vs Wade when the ruling came down.

There were objections of course but they were outside of the main stream. Except of course for the Catholic church.

As the decade wore on the anti abortion movement grew and became more fervent. I didn't know that this was due to a careful l campaign to frame abortion as a moral and xtian issue.

I was nonplussed because in my opinion we were talking about a tiny bundle of cells verses a woman's ability to live her life in a manner of her choosing.

Fast forward to the 80s, that's when I heard an anti abortion activist say the birth control should be illegal to. I was shocked to my core. Why be against one of the thing that prevent abortions? It was that craziness that started me being more active and more watchful of the zealots that wanted to end the right to choose.

Finally the assassination of Dr. George Tiller set my opinion in philosophical stone.
Any study of Tillers work reveals that if any abortion was necessary it was the ones that Tiller performed. Tiller, without exaggeration. a good man doing medically important work who became a secular martyr.

I now believe that the anti abortion movement is evil, regardless of the motives of its members. The only people who should be involved in the decison on abortion is the woman involved and her doctor. To quote Joe Biden, period, full stop.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
142. I haven't changed my mind
Sat Jan 18, 2020, 03:21 AM
Jan 2020

Luckily I had an uncle who was a gynecologist who also volunteered his time to helping women who had botched abortions that were life threatening. He lobbied for abortions to become legal so women would get safe abortions. His argument was that women will get abortions whether they’re legal or not so they should be legal.

He talked to all the women in the family who were old enough, including his daughters and all his nieces about getting birth control and safe abortions. This was 55 years ago.

I remember how surprised I was that my good hearted, funny and joking favorite uncle, which he was to all of us, could be so serious about something.

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