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applegrove

(118,677 posts)
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:56 PM Jan 2020

Democrats Privately Mull Biden-for-Bolton Trade

Democrats Privately Mull Biden-for-Bolton Trade

January 21, 2020 at 8:28 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 70 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2020/01/21/democrats-privately-mull-biden-for-bolton-trade/

"SNIP....

“Several Senate Democrats are privately discussing the possibility of calling Republicans’ bluff on witnesses, weighing an unusual trade in President Trump’s impeachment trial: the testimony of Hunter Biden for the testimony of a key administration official,” the Washington Post reports.

“Publicly, most Democrats have scoffed at the growing GOP clamor to hear former vice president Joe Biden’s son testify, dismissing him as irrelevant to the charges against Trump.”

“But behind closed doors, a small group of Democratic senators and aides have begun to question that logic, sounding out their colleagues on whether they should back a witness deal that could lead to testimony from former national security adviser John Bolton or other administration officials with possible firsthand knowledge of the Ukraine controversy,”

......SNIP"

42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Democrats Privately Mull Biden-for-Bolton Trade (Original Post) applegrove Jan 2020 OP
NO, FUCK NO! RandySF Jan 2020 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Jan 2020 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Jan 2020 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Jan 2020 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #20
I take your point. Will delete. applegrove Jan 2020 #21
I apologize for badgering you. I feel strongly about being accurate about such things. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2020 #23
You were right. No need to apologize. applegrove Jan 2020 #25
Exactly! (nt) scarletwoman Jan 2020 #5
Guess you don't want there to be a conviction and removal then NewsCenter28 Jan 2020 #36
It's an UNEQUAL trade trap. Whoever they "swap" will end up giving nothing. Then what. ancianita Jan 2020 #39
NOT a good idea! Why lend any credence to the stupid right wing conspiracy theory? scarletwoman Jan 2020 #3
I think as a private citizen and a target of Trump Hunter would make a great witness. Autumn Jan 2020 #4
Like any trial bring in the goods ChubbyStar Jan 2020 #16
Do it. budkin Jan 2020 #6
I would like to see Joe Biden and Barack Obama as witnesses. milestogo Jan 2020 #7
might trade biden for trump testifying under oath nt msongs Jan 2020 #8
Nope. Hunter for Bolton. Joe for Trump. Republicans go first. dem4decades Jan 2020 #9
No! Just no. He is not a fact witness. nt Phoenix61 Jan 2020 #10
I know. But i thought it was worth discussing if Democratic Senators applegrove Jan 2020 #12
I think Hunter Biden answering questions in the Senate would kill Joe's presidential campaign. Calista241 Jan 2020 #11
Maybe the Senators talking about it are Bernie, Klibuchar, Warren?? applegrove Jan 2020 #14
Bolt On can make a statement any time, anyplace ... just step up dweller Jan 2020 #13
If this does happen Bolton needs to go first and if Bolton goes "I don't recall" dustyscamp Jan 2020 #22
Like Schiff said Bolton is going to save important relevant info for his book but not come UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #24
Dems should supoena Bolton's publisher for the manuscript DeminPennswoods Jan 2020 #38
Try to recognize the control Trump has over them, and that the swap is far from equal in value. ancianita Jan 2020 #26
I don't trust republicans for some reason. I am not sure deflecting to the Biden's is a Tech Jan 2020 #27
Lawyers Don't Generally Like To Ask Questions If They Don't know The Answers Me. Jan 2020 #28
Think the Bidens will kick ass. Don't see how they can refuse if we expect GOPers to allow Hoyt Jan 2020 #29
The long-awaited defense of Hunter Biden Gothmog Jan 2020 #30
Thank you. applegrove Jan 2020 #32
Forcing Hunter Biden will backfire on the repugs Gothmog Jan 2020 #33
I'm sure you're correct, Gothmog, but I still don't like this one little bit. herding cats Jan 2020 #41
I would need more... stillcool Jan 2020 #31
Hunter is a Yale law grad and can take the GOP goons apart Gothmog Jan 2020 #34
I'll go Hunter Biden for Bolton AND Mulvaney. Biden goes last. nt Progressive Jones Jan 2020 #40
Pure BULLSHIT NiteOwl1 Jan 2020 #35
No. Why the f*ck would we do that guys? ecstatic Jan 2020 #37
Fuck Bolton. crickets Jan 2020 #42

Response to RandySF (Reply #1)

Response to applegrove (Reply #2)

Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #15)

Response to applegrove (Reply #17)

Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #18)

Response to applegrove (Reply #19)

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,355 posts)
23. I apologize for badgering you. I feel strongly about being accurate about such things.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:48 PM
Jan 2020

I'll delete my part of the convo as well.

NewsCenter28

(1,835 posts)
36. Guess you don't want there to be a conviction and removal then
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:33 AM
Jan 2020

This is our ticket for conviction right here. We should take it.

ancianita

(36,060 posts)
39. It's an UNEQUAL trade trap. Whoever they "swap" will end up giving nothing. Then what.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:45 AM
Jan 2020

You really think Republicans operate in good faith?

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
3. NOT a good idea! Why lend any credence to the stupid right wing conspiracy theory?
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:02 PM
Jan 2020

And there's absolutely no guarantee that Bolton's testimony would come out favorably for the impeachment.

Bad, bad idea.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
11. I think Hunter Biden answering questions in the Senate would kill Joe's presidential campaign.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:17 PM
Jan 2020

They're going to ask him how he got his job, and basically nothing he says helps his Dad's campaign. He'll probably end up taking the 5th to avoid answering questions, and that would be that as far as Joe Biden's presidential hopes are concerned.

dweller

(23,640 posts)
13. Bolt On can make a statement any time, anyplace ... just step up
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:18 PM
Jan 2020

preen his walrus stash and blabber all he wants... no subpoena necessary...
he's just looking to bunk up booksales the little fuck 😡
he's no patriot nor whistleblower nor important except in his own false narrative
fn poser... fuck him and his book bs

✌🏼

✌🏼

dustyscamp

(2,224 posts)
22. If this does happen Bolton needs to go first and if Bolton goes "I don't recall"
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:47 PM
Jan 2020

on most of his answers the deal should be called off

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
24. Like Schiff said Bolton is going to save important relevant info for his book but not come
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:53 PM
Jan 2020

forward with it to the American people? Not a good look and more info will come out, now or later...I hope the pukes pay for this.

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
38. Dems should supoena Bolton's publisher for the manuscript
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:43 AM
Jan 2020

The contents have already been vetted by the WH legal beagles, too.

ancianita

(36,060 posts)
26. Try to recognize the control Trump has over them, and that the swap is far from equal in value.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:04 PM
Jan 2020

Other reasons:

Biden is innocent. The Republicans know that everyone knows this, so they can't just flip him like bait to the Republicans for the one guy who can sink Trump.

But consider that even with Bolton testimony, McConnell's trained seal response will guarantee an acquittal anyway.

This deal won't happen.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
28. Lawyers Don't Generally Like To Ask Questions If They Don't know The Answers
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:08 PM
Jan 2020

and who knows what Bolton will say. I, for one, don't trust him.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
29. Think the Bidens will kick ass. Don't see how they can refuse if we expect GOPers to allow
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:10 PM
Jan 2020

witnesses. Shouldn’t be necessary, but it is.

In any event, like how Democrats are handling things tonight, showing damning testimony from House hearings.

Gothmog

(145,291 posts)
30. The long-awaited defense of Hunter Biden
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:11 PM
Jan 2020

Here are some facts including that the fact that Hunter was a biglaw firm that was advising this company https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/5/1907833/-The-long-awaited-defense-of-Hunter-Biden

Following Paradigm, Biden continued working as a lobbyist for several years and was appointed to the board of Amtrak by President George W. Bush. He had also been the vice chairman of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation. He then founded a private equity firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners, in 2009, which later partnered with the Chinese government to form yet another equity firm, called BHR, where he held an unpaid board position. Trump likes to argue that Biden took “tons of money” from China, but again—this position was unpaid.
He ended his lobbying career and left the Amtrak board as his father became vice president, then started another consulting firm in 2008, as noted by Newsweek.

In 2008, Hunter Biden also founded Seneca Global Advisors, a consulting firm that helps companies expand into global markets. His earnings from Rosemont Seneca and Seneca Global Advisors are not publicly available.

Biden then joined the law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, which features superstar lawyer David Boies as its primary partner and chairman. While at Boies Schiller, Biden was involved in advising Burisma, which was a client at the time being personally handled by Biden, who was advising them on corporate reform, according to Hunter Biden’s lawyer, George Mesires:

In April 2014, Hunter was asked to join the board of Burisma, the largest independent natural gas producer in Ukraine. At the time, Hunter was of counsel with Boies Schiller Flexner LLP [fn 1] (“Boies Schiller”), a major U.S. law firm, and was advising Burisma on its corporate reform initiatives, an important aspect of fueling Burisma’s international growth and diversity. Vibrant energy production, particularly natural gas, was central to Ukraine’s independence and to stemming the tide of Vladimir Putin’s attack on the principles of a democratic Europe.

To further its goals of independence, Burisma sought to adopt standards and practices traditionally employed by Western companies. At Hunter’s urging, Boies Schiller engaged Nardello & Co., a leading global investigative firm, to assess, among other things, Burisma’s corporate structure and governance practices. Burisma agreed to pay the legal expenses of Boies Schiller to support Hunter in developing corporate reform initiatives.

Because of Burisma’s stated commitment to corporate best practices, it was able to attract well-qualified board members, including the former president of Poland, Aleksander Kwasniewski, a leading advocate of democratic principles in the region. President Kwasniewski, familiar with Hunter’s work on behalf of Burisma, recommended that Hunter join the board.

Again, this view is consistent that Biden ultimately joined by the board for Burisma Holdings to help it with its efforts regarding “corporate governance,” as noted by Wikipedia.

In the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Mykola Zlochevsky faced a money laundering investigation,[33][34] and his company Burisma Holdings, the largest natural gas producer in Ukraine,[14] assembled a "high-profile international board" in response.[35][34] Biden, then an attorney with Boies Schiller Flexner, was hired to help Burisma with corporate governance best practices, and a consulting firm in which Biden is a partner was also retained by Burisma.[36][37][38] Chris Heinz, John Kerry's stepson, opposed his partners Devon Archer and Hunter Biden joining the board in 2014 due to the reputational risk.[34] Among those who joined the board of directors in April 2014 were Biden, Archer and former Polish president Aleksander Kwaśniewski.[39] Biden served on the board of Burisma until his term expired in April 2019,[40] receiving compensation of up to $50,000 per month in some months.[37][41]

So it appears that Biden was placed on the board of Burisma as part of its effort to “clean up” its practices after the allegations of money laundering by Zlochevsky, which had previously occurred in 2012. Biden took a pay cut to be on the board compared to what he’d earned as an investment banker, although it may have been an upgrade compared to what he likely earned at Boies Schiller. Biden had nothing to do with the investigation of Zlochevsky and was never investigated himself.

Being on the board of AMTRACK and being with the biglaw firm that was advising this company are sufficient qualifications for Hunter to be appointed on the board.

Gothmog

(145,291 posts)
33. Forcing Hunter Biden will backfire on the repugs
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:18 PM
Jan 2020



But as CNN’s Michael Smerconish noted on Saturday, this strategy might not even work.
Enjoy progressive journalism? Help fight right-wing disinformation by supporting Raw Story. Click to learn more.

“This is my theory, pure speculation,” said Smerconish. “I have this vision on the Democratic side of the aisle, some who know Hunter Biden, are sort of rubbing their hands and saying, yeah, yeah, just keep begging for this guy.”

“The Republicans have created such a caricature of him. In other words, they set the bar so low,” continued Smerconish. “And then all of a sudden, Hunter Biden comes in. He’s a handsome guy. He’s articulate. He’s smart. He went to Georgetown, he went to Yale Law. He puts sentences together that are not indicative of having committed anything illicit, other than earning money, perhaps because of the name with which he was bestowed. And Americans say, ‘Oh my god, is that all there is?’ It could completely backfire. It’s one of the intangibles. I don’t know, but I’m paying attention.”

herding cats

(19,565 posts)
41. I'm sure you're correct, Gothmog, but I still don't like this one little bit.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 01:12 AM
Jan 2020

It gives legitimacy to Trump's invalid claims to his supporters, and I'm not convinced Bolton isn't going to dance a fine line which teases his book and answers nothing.

Admittedly, I'm not in the actual loop here, and I do trust our leadership, who are, to know more. However, I'm still worried about being gamed by the GOP on this one.

It all comes down to how much we can trust Bolton. Which explains my concern.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
31. I would need more...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:13 PM
Jan 2020

than Bolton. My Bidens are worth a Bolton, plus a whole bunch of testimony from a whole bunch of witnesses. No deal.

 

NiteOwl1

(87 posts)
35. Pure BULLSHIT
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:22 PM
Jan 2020

The Biden's have absolutely no relevance to the President's Impeachment. None whatsoever.

just one more attempt at distraction from the truth... one more play to thee GOP base and one more attempt at making a mockery of the assault on the Constitution that the GOP is undertaking.

They are trying to figure out a way to be a minority and still wag the dog.

ecstatic

(32,705 posts)
37. No. Why the f*ck would we do that guys?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:35 AM
Jan 2020

Let's get serious. Are we really going to put out a sacrificial lamb just so one of their lying, trump worshipping frauds can take the witness stand? Fuck Bolton and all the rest of the GOP.

crickets

(25,981 posts)
42. Fuck Bolton.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:39 AM
Jan 2020

He had his chance to do the right thing. I don't trust his mercenary ass to tell the truth, and there is no reason whatsoever to legitimize any call for either Biden to testify.

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